Potential solution for the revive situation

Add in some kind of trade for full energy refills to revives

1 (maybe 2) full refills = 1 lvl 1 revive

To make sure this isn’t exploited, the store trade could be limited to 1 or 2 per day.

Comments

ahmynuts

Josh im sorry, your suggestion is squarely in the realm of something that would make sense. Meaning it will never happen

Josh2507

Josh im sorry, your suggestion is squarely in the realm of something that would make sense. Meaning it will never happen

Oh the things I could do if I were chief overlord at Kabam…

PT_99

"Summoners will no longer be able to stash full energy refills effective immediately and Oh the drop rate for refills in 4h crystals will soon undergo a little tune-up, just in case, enjoy holidays."

Aomine_Daiki10

Just buff the aypothecary

Josh2507

Just buff the aypothecary

Another far too logical decision for kabam

GalactikDonut

you can already trade one full energy for one level one revive a day. it’s called the apothecary

Polygon

you can already trade one full energy for one level one revive a day. it’s called the apothecary

This is a tone deaf response. Do you actually enjoy replying to every revive thread with these L takes? OP actually had a good and balanced suggestion.

OP don’t bother responding to this guy, seen him try derailing every thread thats related to the revive predicament

ReignkingTW

Don't get hit.

Josh2507

Don't get hit.

My goodness what an idea, why didn’t I think of that?

DNA3000

Josh im sorry, your suggestion is squarely in the realm of something that would make sense. Meaning it will never happen
Oh the things I could do if I were chief overlord at Kabam…

There is not a game developer alive that doesn't wish for the existence of a hell where all players who say this are granted this wish.

GalactikDonut

OP don’t bother responding to this guy, seen him try derailing every thread thats related to the revive predicament

i don’t think you know what derailing means. just because i’m not crying out for more revives doesn’t mean my response isn’t on topic

Josh2507

There is not a game developer alive that doesn't wish for the existence of a hell where all players who say this are granted this wish.

You… may have a point there

Still, I like putting ideas out there (hopefully they are at least 12% helpful)

Josh2507

i don’t think you know what derailing means. just because i’m not crying out for more revives doesn’t mean my response isn’t on topic

The topic is we need access to more revives. They don’t have to be free or super easy to get, but there should be a way to earn them.

So far your responses indicate that there isn’t an issue and the apothecary is a suitable replacement.

GalactikDonut

So far your responses indicate that there isn’t an issue and the apothecary is a suitable replacement.

that’s because i don’t think there is an issue. you can have 75 revives at one time for free. sure it takes a few weeks to build up that stash but that’s fine. if you need more than 75 for one quest then open free crystals or buy more with units. the only quest you can reasonably use 75 revives on is necro and that’s supposed to be the most difficulty content in the game. you shouldn’t be able to stockpile an absurd amount of revives and just steamroll through it. if they give players more access to revives then the content will be designed to require more revives to beat. this is the best middle ground. players have plenty of revives and content is fair in its challenge.

Josh2507

that’s because i don’t think there is an issue. you can have 75 revives at one time for free. sure it takes a few weeks to build up that stash but that’s fine. if you need more than 75 for one quest then open free crystals or buy more with units. the only quest you can reasonably use 75 revives on is necro and that’s supposed to be the most difficulty content in the game. you shouldn’t be able to stockpile an absurd amount of revives and just steamroll through it. if they give players more access to revives then the content will be designed to require more revives to beat. this is the best middle ground. players have plenty of revives and content is fair in its challenge.

I don’t want to stockpile 75 revives, I just want the ability to earn more than one per day from the apothecary (which is nothing more than a timesink).

The drop rate in free crystals is awful, you can open a 100 of them and only get 1 - 2 revives.

My goal is not to steamroll through content. All I want is the ability to earn a few revives a day (three, four might be pushing it). Then I can make a push through some content when I have a bit of free time.

GalactikDonut

I don’t want to stockpile 75 revives, I just want the ability to earn more than one per day from the apothecary (which is nothing more than a timesink).

The drop rate in free crystals is awful, you can open a 100 of them and only get 1 - 2 revives.

My goal is not to steamroll through content. All I want is the ability to earn a few revives a day (three, four might be pushing it). Then I can make a push through some content when I have a bit of free time.

what content do you need 3-4 revives per day for? again outside of necropolis nothing really takes many revives unless you’re doing content above your level. you can get 2 revives a day right now. if you’re planning on doing necro it’s supposed to be something you plan for and take time to complete. you aren’t meant to 100% it in a month. that’s why they are limiting revives. it’s a design choice meant to discourage players from beating content they aren’t ready for yet. instead of stacking up revives to push through content you should improve your roster so you don’t need as many revives

DNA3000

that’s because i don’t think there is an issue. you can have 75 revives at one time for free. sure it takes a few weeks to build up that stash but that’s fine. if you need more than 75 for one quest then open free crystals or buy more with units. the only quest you can reasonably use 75 revives on is necro and that’s supposed to be the most difficulty content in the game. you shouldn’t be able to stockpile an absurd amount of revives and just steamroll through it. if they give players more access to revives then the content will be designed to require more revives to beat. this is the best middle ground. players have plenty of revives and content is fair in its challenge.
I don’t want to stockpile 75 revives, I just want the ability to earn more than one per day from the apothecary (which is nothing more than a timesink).

The drop rate in free crystals is awful, you can open a 100 of them and only get 1 - 2 revives.

My goal is not to steamroll through content. All I want is the ability to earn a few revives a day (three, four might be pushing it). Then I can make a push through some content when I have a bit of free time.

The math says three revives per day allows players an extra 28 revives in the stash. That's on top of the 68 they can stockpile now (20 each of L1 and L2, plus 14 each in the stash before expiration), for a total of 96.

Maybe you don't want to stockpile 75 revives, but your suggestion allows everyone else to stockpile about a hundred.

jdschw

Being able to autocomplete the apothecary would be nice. It would effectively be the same as converting 1 refill into 1 L1 revive, but it wouldn't increase the revive cap as @DNA3000 is worried about because you'd still be limited by the apothecary.

The only thing this would allow is the ability to use the apothecary while in another quest. Given that you're limited to 1/day, it doesn't seem to me that that capability would have a huge impact on players' ability to tackle hard content. It's not as if serious players are going to sit around in a quest for weeks waiting for free apothecary revives.

GalactikDonut

Being able to autocomplete the apothecary would be nice. It would effectively be the same as converting 1 refill into 1 L1 revive, but it wouldn't increase the revive cap as @DNA3000 is worried about because you'd still be limited by the apothecary.

The only thing this would allow is the ability to use the apothecary while in another quest. Given that you're limited to 1/day, it doesn't seem to me that that capability would have a huge impact on players' ability to tackle hard content. It's not as if serious players are going to sit around in a quest for weeks waiting for free apothecary revives.

i think this is the best and most reasonable “solution” to the revive farming nerf

DNA3000

being able to autoplay the apothecary would be nice. It would effectively be the same as converting 1 refill into 1 L1 revive, but it wouldn't increase the revive cap as @DNA3000 is worried about because you'd still be limited by the apothecary.

The only thing this would allow is the ability to use the apothecary while in another quest. Given that you're limited to 1/day, it doesn't seem to me that that capability would have a huge impact on players' ability to tackle hard content. It's not as if serious players are going to sit around in a quest for weeks waiting for free apothecary revives.

Being able to farm revives for literally zero effort is one of those things Kabam is trying to remove when they remove the revive farms: I don't think it is likely they would specifically add that feature in any capacity, however limited.

And you should never say "serious players are not going to X" because you're always going to be wrong. People said that about the farms themselves, either because they were ignorant or because they were deliberately lying about it to attempt to preserve them. People overestimated the hardship of the farms and understated the willingness of the players to actually do it, but Kabam has the actual play through statistics, and if it was as hard as some were saying and as uncommon as they were implying there wouldn't have been a problem.

If you allow it, someone will do it. And then they will teach others. For every player that needs 50 revives to complete some piece of Everest content, there's someone who needs 51. There's someone who needs 52. And so on. And for any amount of revives you think players will reasonably want to farm, there's someone willing to go one more, and someone else willing to go ten more, and someone else willing to go a hundred more. If you think you only need one more revive to beat the Grandmaster, you are most definitely going to wait a day to get it, if you aren't willing to spend to get it. And another, and another. No one is going to farm up a hundred revives this way all at once, but they will farm one at a time if they have to.

Pro-tip: never suggest something, then say it will have little or no impact. If you're right, it isn't worth the devs time to consider. For your suggestion to be worth the developers time, it has to have a *significant* impact *somewhere*. And whatever that is, you need to justify why that significant impact that is going to change things in a noticeable way is worth the cost of doing it.

Josh2507

Being able to autocomplete the apothecary would be nice. It would effectively be the same as converting 1 refill into 1 L1 revive, but it wouldn't increase the revive cap as @DNA3000 is worried about because you'd still be limited by the apothecary.

The autocomplete feature should have been in there from day one

But kabam made a point of leaving it out (for reasons best known to themselves)

jdschw

Pro-tip: never suggest something, then say it will have little or no impact. If you're right, it isn't worth the devs time to consider. For your suggestion to be worth the developers time, it has to have a *significant* impact *somewhere*. And whatever that is, you need to justify why that significant impact that is going to change things in a noticeable way is worth the cost of doing it.

I think you're misrepresenting my words a bit. What I said was "it doesn't seem to me that that capability would have a huge impact on players' ability to tackle hard content." I didn't say this change would have no impact in general. Its impact would be a quality-of-life improvement on people who want to get the revive from the apothecary without having to burn their phone's battery for 5 minutes on autoplay.

And you know as well as I do that the "cost of doing it", for this particular suggestion, would be extremely minimal. The autocomplete feature is already written. All the developers would need to do here is turn on this existing feature for this existing quest. If they have a decent configuration system in place, this could be as little as a 1-line config change.

I don't think there is anything wrong with suggesting small improvements that are also low-effort.

I also recognize that there may be problems with this solution which the developers know about, and I don't. But I don't think the issues you brought up represent dealbreakers for this idea.

Finally, just to respond to your point about a player waiting a day when they just need one more revive to beat the necro GM: yes, I agree, some people will do that. But is that bad? If a player is that desperate, and all they need is 1 more revive, and they don't have the units and can't (or don't want to) pay, is it a better outcome for them to ragequit and feel miserable for all the time they spent in the necropolis? The point I was making, which I still stand by, is that my proposal would not have an appreciable percentage of players taking 50 days to complete the necropolis in order to earn 50 free revives, one day at a time. That would absolutely not be worth their time - they would lose more in opportunity cost (from the other quests they do not complete in that time).

Josh2507

Being able to farm revives for literally zero effort is one of those things Kabam is trying to remove when they remove the revive farms

I’d be more than happy to do some kind of special challenge quest that lets me “earn” revives.

If the problem is being able to farm revives with little to no effort, then give me something to do which does require effort.

The reason most players resort to farming in “easier” content is because these resources do not exist at higher levels.

Hypothetically speaking, if you could farm one revive per act 8 path, would that be acceptable?

GalactikDonut

Hypothetically speaking, if you could farm one revive per act 8 path, would that be acceptable?

i would say def not. the players who want to farm a lot of revives are for the most part the players who can clear an act 8 path in 10 minutes with no difficulty

DNA3000

Finally, just to respond to your point about a player waiting a day when they just need one more revive to beat the necro GM: yes, I agree, some people will do that. But is that bad?

Yes.

Remember the way this game funds its existence. It isn't by asking whales to donate tons of cash out of the goodness of their hearts. It isn't by tricking people into tapping the wrong button. Fundamentally speaking, it funds itself by making things people want, *some* of which *some* people might decide to spend *some* money to get.

For every piece of content, there will be people who will sail through it and there will be people who will never be able to do it. You never make much if any money on either group, ever. You make money on the group of players for whom it seems possible, but might be just slightly out of reach. That's true for everything. It is true for champion acquisition, it is true for competitive game modes, and it is true for things like Everest content.

You can farm revives, you can manage stashes of resources, you can practice your skills, but at some point you have to do it with what you have, or spend to finish it, or fail. If you aren't willing to draw the line here, then where?

I am completely setting aside the separate problem that if you open this door and let people get one revive a day when stuck like this, the players actually stuck will demand more. They will say Kabam is cruel for leaving them stranded like this. They will say Kabam is greedy and just wants their money. None of that is worth it. History has shown if you let players get into these kinds of situations, they will, and they will blame Kabam not themselves for being in it. I think Kabam would rather have players complain about not having enough revives.

jdschw

I am completely setting aside the separate problem that if you open this door and let people get one revive a day when stuck like this, the players actually stuck will demand more. They will say Kabam is cruel for leaving them stranded like this. They will say Kabam is greedy and just wants their money. None of that is worth it. History has shown if you let players get into these kinds of situations, they will, and they will blame Kabam not themselves for being in it. I think Kabam would rather have players complain about not having enough revives.

I don't think making the apothecary autocomplete-able "opens" this door. Players already do all the things you described today, and they will do it regardless of what changes Kabam decides to make (or not make) about the revive economy. If your point is that this reality shouldn't be the basis for any decision on this topic, then I certainly do agree with that sentiment.

The point I'm trying to make here is that this hypothetical player, who just needs one more revive but won't spare the 40 units for it, is not going to turn into a paying customer. After all, the way the game currently works, that player could just play arenas for 20 minutes to earn those 40 units.

I can't speak to the actual paying userbase, but I *hope* that the spenders in this game aren't doing it out of desperation. I *hope* that spenders are spending because they enjoy the gaming experience, and they have the disposable income, and they want to use that money to enrich their experience. I think that group very likely does have some overlap with the people who can sail through content, because the reason they can sail through content is that they love playing the game, and got good at it because of all the time they spent playing it.

DNA3000

I can't speak to the actual paying userbase, but I *hope* that the spenders in this game aren't doing it out of desperation. I *hope* that spenders are spending because they enjoy the gaming experience, and they have the disposable income, and they want to use that money to enrich their experience. I think that group very likely does have some overlap with the people who can sail through content, because the reason they can sail through content is that they love playing the game, and got good at it because of all the time they spent playing it.

If a game studio thought this was true, they would support themselves on Patreon.

There are many players who spend to support a game, just because they want to support the game. I'm one of those people who has spent on games just to support the game, and I mostly spend on this game because I want to support the game. But I still have to have something to spend on. I'm not an RNG based ATM. I'm not going to spend on things I am already getting for free. I won't spend to do something I don't actually have to spend to do just for giggles. I still spend on the things I can't get any other way, or things I want more of than I want to spend time acquiring.

Enrichment is, by definition, getting things that are otherwise out of reach, either because they can't be gotten or because you don't want to spend the time to go get them. Every spender spends for their own reasons, but they have actual reasons that make sense to them. From the tiniest minnow to the largest whale, they don't generally spend redundantly on things they don't need or want, and they don't generally spend on things that lead to no purpose. It is never on things trivially within reach, and never on things ludicrously out of reach - if there is such a thing for them. It is always on the stuff that they cannot get (or cannot get as much as they want) without spending, but some level of spending that is reasonable to them can acquire.

Also, are those the only two motivations you have? None, and desperation? Nothing of what I said remotely implies desperation. Perhaps for you, the only times you would spend on the game is out of desperation, so you interpret any need that can only be satisfied by spending to be desperation, but that's not how most spenders see it. Sometimes I just don't have time to make or fetch lunch, so I order DoorDash. That's because having a lunch at at a timely moment is currently out of reach, so I spend extra. I would not characterize that as an act of desperation.

GalactikDonut

would being able to run apothecary once a day while in a quest cause many problems? players can already get a revive while in a quest 3/4 days from the 22 hour solo events, so they can already stall out until they get the quest done without having to buy revives. i’m not saying they should add the feature but i am genuinely curious if the solo event causes any of the problems you said would happen if they added auto complete. i understand them not wanting to make revives obtainable with a single click of a button but it sure would be much more convenient.

DNA3000

would being able to run apothecary once a day while in a quest cause many problems? players can already get a revive while in a quest 3/4 days from the 22 hour solo events, so they can already stall out until they get the quest done without having to buy revives. i’m not saying they should add the feature but i am genuinely curious if the solo event causes any of the problems you said would happen if they added auto complete. i understand them not wanting to make revives obtainable with a single click of a button but it sure would be much more convenient.

I don't think it would cause any problems, in the usual sense of the word. But you don't do things because there's no reason not to do them, you only do them when there's a very good reason to do them. We just nerfed the revive farms, because Kabam wanted to a) reduce the amount of revives available to use against difficult content and b) to eliminate the options for effortless revive farming (anyone who wants to argue that revive farming is not effortless can go find someone else to entertain them: I'm using the term the way Kabam does, and the way most normal people understand it).

Why add an effortless way to farm a theoretically unlimited amount of revives you could use in difficult content when you don't need to? Why bother discussing whether it is "practical" or not when this is completely unnecessary and counter to the work you're currently doing?

It is up to the players who would want such a feature to make the case that it is worth doing. And the harder they make that case, the more they demonstrate how much of an impact such a change would make. And by extension, how unsafe it might be to make it.

jdschw

Enrichment is, by definition, getting things that are otherwise out of reach, either because they can't be gotten or because you don't want to spend the time to go get them.

Right, but as I pointed out, the 40 units is not out of reach for a person mid-quest, because they can spend some time in the arenas. It's not about moving the brass ring. That's my point. I don't think auto-completing the apothecary moves any goal from "out of reach" to "within reach" in a significant way.

The fact is, we can autoplay the apothecary today. So it still doesn't take hands-on time - just "idle phone" time. I'm arguing that making the apothecary auto-completable would be a quality of life improvement, and not otherwise impact the revive economy. The only gameplay effect that it would have is to permit visiting the apothecary mid-quest - but since players can already do that with arenas, it's not fundamentally changing the availability of one more revive in any scenario.

Also, are those the only two motivations you have? None, and desperation? Nothing of what I said remotely implies desperation. Perhaps for you, the only times you would spend on the game is out of desperation, so you interpret any need that can only be satisfied by spending to be desperation, but that's not how most spenders see it. Sometimes I just don't have time to make or fetch lunch, so I order DoorDash. That's because having a lunch at at a timely moment is currently out of reach, so I spend extra. I would not characterize that as an act of desperation.

Apologies for the semantics. I used the term "desperation" because you were describing a player that was just one revive away from beating the grandmaster, and how it would be better for them to either quit or feel forced to spend money in order to win that fight and clear that everest content. That sounds a bit like desperation to me. I did not intend to characterize all situations where players spend money to gain resources as desperation.