The damage discrepancy between Onslaught and Dani Moonstar

SecondSkriller

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

You sure added so much to this thread… especially about how much you play Zemo and still think his damage is good… nuts even, you said… just compare him to Kate Bishop, who didn’t get rebalanced. He definetly needed the nerf, right Mike?

Root absolutely did need to be adjusted since it was game-breaking to lock a defender into spamming heavy attacks indefinitely with the use of a relic. Not even to mention Skill Power Back Boosts.
You were talking about balance earlier, yes?

It's a bit silly to suggest otherwise at this point, tbh.

Ya know what, I'm bored, so I'll bite on the Zemo comment -
He gains a 200% fury whenever his Opponent is immune to, or purifies, any effect (stun, bleed, etc) -
On debuff immune nodes this shoots his basic attack DPS up to the moon, and if he has furies while he's placing his bleeds, those bleeds get that attack bonus increase - and they're indefinite.

If you take him into Realm of Legends and fight Winter Soldier, you probably won't be too impressed.
He'll do the fight just fine, but that isn't where he excels.

"Utilizing him properly" does not consist of adding synergies to the team.
Utilizing him properly is sending him toward nodes, such as (for example) "Right Back At It," where a knockdown on SP2 triggers a debuff immune passive, in which he could safely close out War fights in roughly 30 seconds.
Or against Science Champions (or nodes) in which he could root the defender naturally, essentially skipping the bulk of his ramp.

I saw you made a post recently about how he isn't gaining the proper amount of furies on his Special 1 against bleed immune Champions - he is, the 5 furies are consumed on the final hit of his Special attack. That's why against Photon, while rooted, the last hit of his Special 1 hits for a bit under 100k.
I don't know about you, but I would personally categorize a +/-100,000 Special 1 crit as "nuts," but that's me.

I didn't even touch on the skill expression possibility of re-parrying Stun Immune fights to gain furies before attacking - or better yet, parrying Kingpin (or other shruggers) a few times to nuke the fight with a 300k+ Special 3.

I'm always more than happy to have a discussion about literally any aspect of the game, it's what I love to do - but just a friendly reminder, I'm lucky enough for this to be my job, and I know what I'm talking about.

I gave you a like for this one, you’re actually giving me something for once. All the things you said are great, except for the fact that even in these matchups his damage isn’t "nuts". They should have tuned his bleed damage to be 50% higher on base and exclude the Ibom synergy. I love Zemo’s utility and I use him just as much as you do, I’m sure.

Regarding the sp1 consuming 5 fury buffs: the crit is 90k and he gains a fury after it. The description states that he gains the fury after an immunity triggers, so you should be able to understand why I asked that question. Somewhere there a fury isn’t accounted for.

I love using him against Attuma and Kingpin in bg, but his damage is once again undertuned because he can’t access his self synergies there, which I find quite stupid, so he gets nothing from deep wounds, missing out on 25% bleed damage… useless undertuning.

Reducing the fury limit to 15 was pointless, another useless undertuning, they love using arguments like "we’re doing it so he doesn’t get too op on defense", then why don’t you just make this change defensively only?

These are my gripes with him and the way Kabam handled him, if these things were improved I wouldn’t complain. I still love him the way he is, nerfed and all.

SecondSkriller

Shock29 said:

SecondSkriller said:

You sure added so much to this thread… especially about how much you play Zemo and still think his damage is good… nuts even, you said… just compare him to Kate Bishop, who didn’t get rebalanced. He definetly needed the nerf, right Mike?

I think it's a little unfair to directly compare Kate Bishop and Zemo. They're both Skill champions but the way they deal damage separates them from comparison beyond just general damage. Ultimately, there are matchups that work for KB and not for Zemo while other matchups might be better for Zemo than KB.

The comparison is fair, if you actually count the matchups where Kate is ahead of Zemo you’ll need more toes lol

Karatemike415

SecondSkriller said:

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

You sure added so much to this thread… especially about how much you play Zemo and still think his damage is good… nuts even, you said… just compare him to Kate Bishop, who didn’t get rebalanced. He definetly needed the nerf, right Mike?

Root absolutely did need to be adjusted since it was game-breaking to lock a defender into spamming heavy attacks indefinitely with the use of a relic. Not even to mention Skill Power Back Boosts.
You were talking about balance earlier, yes?

It's a bit silly to suggest otherwise at this point, tbh.

Ya know what, I'm bored, so I'll bite on the Zemo comment -
He gains a 200% fury whenever his Opponent is immune to, or purifies, any effect (stun, bleed, etc) -
On debuff immune nodes this shoots his basic attack DPS up to the moon, and if he has furies while he's placing his bleeds, those bleeds get that attack bonus increase - and they're indefinite.

If you take him into Realm of Legends and fight Winter Soldier, you probably won't be too impressed.
He'll do the fight just fine, but that isn't where he excels.

"Utilizing him properly" does not consist of adding synergies to the team.
Utilizing him properly is sending him toward nodes, such as (for example) "Right Back At It," where a knockdown on SP2 triggers a debuff immune passive, in which he could safely close out War fights in roughly 30 seconds.
Or against Science Champions (or nodes) in which he could root the defender naturally, essentially skipping the bulk of his ramp.

I saw you made a post recently about how he isn't gaining the proper amount of furies on his Special 1 against bleed immune Champions - he is, the 5 furies are consumed on the final hit of his Special attack. That's why against Photon, while rooted, the last hit of his Special 1 hits for a bit under 100k.
I don't know about you, but I would personally categorize a +/-100,000 Special 1 crit as "nuts," but that's me.

I didn't even touch on the skill expression possibility of re-parrying Stun Immune fights to gain furies before attacking - or better yet, parrying Kingpin (or other shruggers) a few times to nuke the fight with a 300k+ Special 3.

I'm always more than happy to have a discussion about literally any aspect of the game, it's what I love to do - but just a friendly reminder, I'm lucky enough for this to be my job, and I know what I'm talking about.

I gave you a like for this one, you’re actually giving me something for once.

lol

SecondSkriller

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

You sure added so much to this thread… especially about how much you play Zemo and still think his damage is good… nuts even, you said… just compare him to Kate Bishop, who didn’t get rebalanced. He definetly needed the nerf, right Mike?

Root absolutely did need to be adjusted since it was game-breaking to lock a defender into spamming heavy attacks indefinitely with the use of a relic. Not even to mention Skill Power Back Boosts.
You were talking about balance earlier, yes?

It's a bit silly to suggest otherwise at this point, tbh.

Ya know what, I'm bored, so I'll bite on the Zemo comment -
He gains a 200% fury whenever his Opponent is immune to, or purifies, any effect (stun, bleed, etc) -
On debuff immune nodes this shoots his basic attack DPS up to the moon, and if he has furies while he's placing his bleeds, those bleeds get that attack bonus increase - and they're indefinite.

If you take him into Realm of Legends and fight Winter Soldier, you probably won't be too impressed.
He'll do the fight just fine, but that isn't where he excels.

"Utilizing him properly" does not consist of adding synergies to the team.
Utilizing him properly is sending him toward nodes, such as (for example) "Right Back At It," where a knockdown on SP2 triggers a debuff immune passive, in which he could safely close out War fights in roughly 30 seconds.
Or against Science Champions (or nodes) in which he could root the defender naturally, essentially skipping the bulk of his ramp.

I saw you made a post recently about how he isn't gaining the proper amount of furies on his Special 1 against bleed immune Champions - he is, the 5 furies are consumed on the final hit of his Special attack. That's why against Photon, while rooted, the last hit of his Special 1 hits for a bit under 100k.
I don't know about you, but I would personally categorize a +/-100,000 Special 1 crit as "nuts," but that's me.

I didn't even touch on the skill expression possibility of re-parrying Stun Immune fights to gain furies before attacking - or better yet, parrying Kingpin (or other shruggers) a few times to nuke the fight with a 300k+ Special 3.

I'm always more than happy to have a discussion about literally any aspect of the game, it's what I love to do - but just a friendly reminder, I'm lucky enough for this to be my job, and I know what I'm talking about.

I gave you a like for this one, you’re actually giving me something for once.

lol

You’re starting to understand how I work. Give me something from the heart and I won’t bark 🫶

Karatemike415

SecondSkriller said:

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

You sure added so much to this thread… especially about how much you play Zemo and still think his damage is good… nuts even, you said… just compare him to Kate Bishop, who didn’t get rebalanced. He definetly needed the nerf, right Mike?

Root absolutely did need to be adjusted since it was game-breaking to lock a defender into spamming heavy attacks indefinitely with the use of a relic. Not even to mention Skill Power Back Boosts.
You were talking about balance earlier, yes?

It's a bit silly to suggest otherwise at this point, tbh.

Ya know what, I'm bored, so I'll bite on the Zemo comment -
He gains a 200% fury whenever his Opponent is immune to, or purifies, any effect (stun, bleed, etc) -
On debuff immune nodes this shoots his basic attack DPS up to the moon, and if he has furies while he's placing his bleeds, those bleeds get that attack bonus increase - and they're indefinite.

If you take him into Realm of Legends and fight Winter Soldier, you probably won't be too impressed.
He'll do the fight just fine, but that isn't where he excels.

"Utilizing him properly" does not consist of adding synergies to the team.
Utilizing him properly is sending him toward nodes, such as (for example) "Right Back At It," where a knockdown on SP2 triggers a debuff immune passive, in which he could safely close out War fights in roughly 30 seconds.
Or against Science Champions (or nodes) in which he could root the defender naturally, essentially skipping the bulk of his ramp.

I saw you made a post recently about how he isn't gaining the proper amount of furies on his Special 1 against bleed immune Champions - he is, the 5 furies are consumed on the final hit of his Special attack. That's why against Photon, while rooted, the last hit of his Special 1 hits for a bit under 100k.
I don't know about you, but I would personally categorize a +/-100,000 Special 1 crit as "nuts," but that's me.

I didn't even touch on the skill expression possibility of re-parrying Stun Immune fights to gain furies before attacking - or better yet, parrying Kingpin (or other shruggers) a few times to nuke the fight with a 300k+ Special 3.

I'm always more than happy to have a discussion about literally any aspect of the game, it's what I love to do - but just a friendly reminder, I'm lucky enough for this to be my job, and I know what I'm talking about.

I gave you a like for this one, you’re actually giving me something for once.

lol

You’re starting to understand how I work. Give me something from the heart and I won’t bark 🫶

Show other people respect, and they will be more willing to hear you out.

SecondSkriller

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

You sure added so much to this thread… especially about how much you play Zemo and still think his damage is good… nuts even, you said… just compare him to Kate Bishop, who didn’t get rebalanced. He definetly needed the nerf, right Mike?

Root absolutely did need to be adjusted since it was game-breaking to lock a defender into spamming heavy attacks indefinitely with the use of a relic. Not even to mention Skill Power Back Boosts.
You were talking about balance earlier, yes?

It's a bit silly to suggest otherwise at this point, tbh.

Ya know what, I'm bored, so I'll bite on the Zemo comment -
He gains a 200% fury whenever his Opponent is immune to, or purifies, any effect (stun, bleed, etc) -
On debuff immune nodes this shoots his basic attack DPS up to the moon, and if he has furies while he's placing his bleeds, those bleeds get that attack bonus increase - and they're indefinite.

If you take him into Realm of Legends and fight Winter Soldier, you probably won't be too impressed.
He'll do the fight just fine, but that isn't where he excels.

"Utilizing him properly" does not consist of adding synergies to the team.
Utilizing him properly is sending him toward nodes, such as (for example) "Right Back At It," where a knockdown on SP2 triggers a debuff immune passive, in which he could safely close out War fights in roughly 30 seconds.
Or against Science Champions (or nodes) in which he could root the defender naturally, essentially skipping the bulk of his ramp.

I saw you made a post recently about how he isn't gaining the proper amount of furies on his Special 1 against bleed immune Champions - he is, the 5 furies are consumed on the final hit of his Special attack. That's why against Photon, while rooted, the last hit of his Special 1 hits for a bit under 100k.
I don't know about you, but I would personally categorize a +/-100,000 Special 1 crit as "nuts," but that's me.

I didn't even touch on the skill expression possibility of re-parrying Stun Immune fights to gain furies before attacking - or better yet, parrying Kingpin (or other shruggers) a few times to nuke the fight with a 300k+ Special 3.

I'm always more than happy to have a discussion about literally any aspect of the game, it's what I love to do - but just a friendly reminder, I'm lucky enough for this to be my job, and I know what I'm talking about.

I gave you a like for this one, you’re actually giving me something for once.

lol

You’re starting to understand how I work. Give me something from the heart and I won’t bark 🫶

Show other people respect, and they will be more willing to hear you out.

I keep hearing that, but it feels more like the opposite. You showed me respect by answering something concrete, I return it now.

SecondSkriller

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

You sure added so much to this thread… especially about how much you play Zemo and still think his damage is good… nuts even, you said… just compare him to Kate Bishop, who didn’t get rebalanced. He definetly needed the nerf, right Mike?

Root absolutely did need to be adjusted since it was game-breaking to lock a defender into spamming heavy attacks indefinitely with the use of a relic. Not even to mention Skill Power Back Boosts.
You were talking about balance earlier, yes?

It's a bit silly to suggest otherwise at this point, tbh.

Ya know what, I'm bored, so I'll bite on the Zemo comment -
He gains a 200% fury whenever his Opponent is immune to, or purifies, any effect (stun, bleed, etc) -
On debuff immune nodes this shoots his basic attack DPS up to the moon, and if he has furies while he's placing his bleeds, those bleeds get that attack bonus increase - and they're indefinite.

If you take him into Realm of Legends and fight Winter Soldier, you probably won't be too impressed.
He'll do the fight just fine, but that isn't where he excels.

"Utilizing him properly" does not consist of adding synergies to the team.
Utilizing him properly is sending him toward nodes, such as (for example) "Right Back At It," where a knockdown on SP2 triggers a debuff immune passive, in which he could safely close out War fights in roughly 30 seconds.
Or against Science Champions (or nodes) in which he could root the defender naturally, essentially skipping the bulk of his ramp.

I saw you made a post recently about how he isn't gaining the proper amount of furies on his Special 1 against bleed immune Champions - he is, the 5 furies are consumed on the final hit of his Special attack. That's why against Photon, while rooted, the last hit of his Special 1 hits for a bit under 100k.
I don't know about you, but I would personally categorize a +/-100,000 Special 1 crit as "nuts," but that's me.

I didn't even touch on the skill expression possibility of re-parrying Stun Immune fights to gain furies before attacking - or better yet, parrying Kingpin (or other shruggers) a few times to nuke the fight with a 300k+ Special 3.

I'm always more than happy to have a discussion about literally any aspect of the game, it's what I love to do - but just a friendly reminder, I'm lucky enough for this to be my job, and I know what I'm talking about.

I gave you a like for this one, you’re actually giving me something for once.

lol

You’re starting to understand how I work. Give me something from the heart and I won’t bark 🫶

Show other people respect, and they will be more willing to hear you out.

Also, can you clarify the Zemo Photon fury thing? What am I missing?

Karatemike415

SecondSkriller said:

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

You sure added so much to this thread… especially about how much you play Zemo and still think his damage is good… nuts even, you said… just compare him to Kate Bishop, who didn’t get rebalanced. He definetly needed the nerf, right Mike?

Root absolutely did need to be adjusted since it was game-breaking to lock a defender into spamming heavy attacks indefinitely with the use of a relic. Not even to mention Skill Power Back Boosts.
You were talking about balance earlier, yes?

It's a bit silly to suggest otherwise at this point, tbh.

Ya know what, I'm bored, so I'll bite on the Zemo comment -
He gains a 200% fury whenever his Opponent is immune to, or purifies, any effect (stun, bleed, etc) -
On debuff immune nodes this shoots his basic attack DPS up to the moon, and if he has furies while he's placing his bleeds, those bleeds get that attack bonus increase - and they're indefinite.

If you take him into Realm of Legends and fight Winter Soldier, you probably won't be too impressed.
He'll do the fight just fine, but that isn't where he excels.

"Utilizing him properly" does not consist of adding synergies to the team.
Utilizing him properly is sending him toward nodes, such as (for example) "Right Back At It," where a knockdown on SP2 triggers a debuff immune passive, in which he could safely close out War fights in roughly 30 seconds.
Or against Science Champions (or nodes) in which he could root the defender naturally, essentially skipping the bulk of his ramp.

I saw you made a post recently about how he isn't gaining the proper amount of furies on his Special 1 against bleed immune Champions - he is, the 5 furies are consumed on the final hit of his Special attack. That's why against Photon, while rooted, the last hit of his Special 1 hits for a bit under 100k.
I don't know about you, but I would personally categorize a +/-100,000 Special 1 crit as "nuts," but that's me.

I didn't even touch on the skill expression possibility of re-parrying Stun Immune fights to gain furies before attacking - or better yet, parrying Kingpin (or other shruggers) a few times to nuke the fight with a 300k+ Special 3.

I'm always more than happy to have a discussion about literally any aspect of the game, it's what I love to do - but just a friendly reminder, I'm lucky enough for this to be my job, and I know what I'm talking about.

I gave you a like for this one, you’re actually giving me something for once.

lol

You’re starting to understand how I work. Give me something from the heart and I won’t bark 🫶

Show other people respect, and they will be more willing to hear you out.

I keep hearing that, but it feels more like the opposite. You showed me respect by answering something concrete, I return it now.

I showed you respect from the start.
You went out of your way to disrespect me, multiple times - and even after that, I still showed you respect.

I'm not offended, and I wasn't bothered by it at all - but I do hope you take something away from this in the future.
Treat others the way you want to be treated.

SecondSkriller

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

Karatemike415 said:

SecondSkriller said:

You sure added so much to this thread… especially about how much you play Zemo and still think his damage is good… nuts even, you said… just compare him to Kate Bishop, who didn’t get rebalanced. He definetly needed the nerf, right Mike?

Root absolutely did need to be adjusted since it was game-breaking to lock a defender into spamming heavy attacks indefinitely with the use of a relic. Not even to mention Skill Power Back Boosts.
You were talking about balance earlier, yes?

It's a bit silly to suggest otherwise at this point, tbh.

Ya know what, I'm bored, so I'll bite on the Zemo comment -
He gains a 200% fury whenever his Opponent is immune to, or purifies, any effect (stun, bleed, etc) -
On debuff immune nodes this shoots his basic attack DPS up to the moon, and if he has furies while he's placing his bleeds, those bleeds get that attack bonus increase - and they're indefinite.

If you take him into Realm of Legends and fight Winter Soldier, you probably won't be too impressed.
He'll do the fight just fine, but that isn't where he excels.

"Utilizing him properly" does not consist of adding synergies to the team.
Utilizing him properly is sending him toward nodes, such as (for example) "Right Back At It," where a knockdown on SP2 triggers a debuff immune passive, in which he could safely close out War fights in roughly 30 seconds.
Or against Science Champions (or nodes) in which he could root the defender naturally, essentially skipping the bulk of his ramp.

I saw you made a post recently about how he isn't gaining the proper amount of furies on his Special 1 against bleed immune Champions - he is, the 5 furies are consumed on the final hit of his Special attack. That's why against Photon, while rooted, the last hit of his Special 1 hits for a bit under 100k.
I don't know about you, but I would personally categorize a +/-100,000 Special 1 crit as "nuts," but that's me.

I didn't even touch on the skill expression possibility of re-parrying Stun Immune fights to gain furies before attacking - or better yet, parrying Kingpin (or other shruggers) a few times to nuke the fight with a 300k+ Special 3.

I'm always more than happy to have a discussion about literally any aspect of the game, it's what I love to do - but just a friendly reminder, I'm lucky enough for this to be my job, and I know what I'm talking about.

I gave you a like for this one, you’re actually giving me something for once.

lol

You’re starting to understand how I work. Give me something from the heart and I won’t bark 🫶

Show other people respect, and they will be more willing to hear you out.

I keep hearing that, but it feels more like the opposite. You showed me respect by answering something concrete, I return it now.

I showed you respect from the start.
You went out of your way to disrespect me, multiple times - and even after that, I still showed you respect.

I'm not offended, and I wasn't bothered by it at all - but I do hope you take something away from this in the future.
Treat others the way you want to be treated.

I might, but I really care about the Zemo fury thing, so let me know how I got that one wrong before you leave.

GroundedWisdom

The introduction and balancing of Champions isn't a game of Jenga. It's not about taking a block from the bottom and putting it on top. I doubt that there are many arguments to the fact that some do underperform and lack any kind of distinguishing characteristics. However, it's not about comparing them to how well they perform in relation to the "highest". Further to that, some Champs are quite good in their own right, they're just not the first choice in a pack.
This is how the game has always been. There's always going to be a range when comparing, and some will be good overall, some will be good at what they do, and some will be on the lower end, save for niches.
More to the topic, she's solid when you work her rotation right. She's tricky, but once you get the hang of her groove, she's quite the little ninja.
Also, if you're going to have a discussion, you may want to accept that people will have different points of view. Otherwise you're going to come off as confrontational for no reason. Take the suggestion or leave it.

SecondSkriller

GroundedWisdom said:

The introduction and balancing of Champions isn't a game of Jenga. It's not about taking a block from the bottom and putting it on top. I doubt that there are many arguments to the fact that some do underperform and lack any kind of distinguishing characteristics. However, it's not about comparing them to how well they perform in relation to the "highest". Further to that, some Champs are quite good in their own right, they're just not the first choice in a pack.
This is how the game has always been. There's always going to be a range when comparing, and some will be good overall, some will be good at what they do, and some will be on the lower end, save for niches.
More to the topic, she's solid when you work her rotation right. She's tricky, but once you get the hang of her groove, she's quite the little ninja.
Also, if you're going to have a discussion, you may want to accept that people will have different points of view. Otherwise you're going to come off as confrontational for no reason. Take the suggestion or leave it.

You’re like the final boss when it comes to Kabam apoligism. I won’t fight you.

GroundedWisdom

I offered a logical perspective. If you're going to respond in such a way, then you're not being constructive here at all.

ThatGuyYouSaw235

My man I might be one of the biggest Dani slanderers out there but this comparison is missing a lot of things that come into play when designing a champion.

SecondSkriller

ThatGuyYouSaw235 said:

My man I might be one of the biggest Dani slanderers out there but this comparison is missing a lot of things that come into play when designing a champion.

Still two 2023 mutants. Plus I bet they’ll rebalance Onslaught.

Pikolu

SecondSkriller said:

ThatGuyYouSaw235 said:

My man I might be one of the biggest Dani slanderers out there but this comparison is missing a lot of things that come into play when designing a champion.

Still two 2023 mutants. Plus I bet they’ll rebalance Onslaught.

Keep in mind rebalance goes both ways, so onslaught could see an offensive nerf making him much less viable on offense.

SecondSkriller

Pikolu said:

SecondSkriller said:

ThatGuyYouSaw235 said:

My man I might be one of the biggest Dani slanderers out there but this comparison is missing a lot of things that come into play when designing a champion.

Still two 2023 mutants. Plus I bet they’ll rebalance Onslaught.

Keep in mind rebalance goes both ways, so onslaught could see an offensive nerf making him much less viable on offense.

That’s what I mean 🫶

Feeney234

Well said OP. Would love to see this

Manup456

I get it now, this is not as much of Dani is under performing thread, it’s more of a he wants Onslaught nerfed thread 🤔

Vegeta9001

I have Dani at r3 and love her. But yes, she is sorely lacking in almost every area for one of the newer champs. Neuroshock and Marked are her only positive gimmicks and even those don't save her from being Dani Midstar

Harryatomix

GroundedWisdom said:

I offered a logical perspective. If you're going to respond in such a way, then you're not being constructive here at all.

Where do you rate Dani moonstar among 2023 released champs? According to me she is in the bottom 2 and kabam had chance to correct it, make her better and they ruined it. I am more pissed with rebalancing than with Dani moonstar.

Harryatomix

Pikolu said:

SecondSkriller said:

ThatGuyYouSaw235 said:

My man I might be one of the biggest Dani slanderers out there but this comparison is missing a lot of things that come into play when designing a champion.

Still two 2023 mutants. Plus I bet they’ll rebalance Onslaught.

Keep in mind rebalance goes both ways, so onslaught could see an offensive nerf making him much less viable on offense.

Why do you want mutants to be nerfed, wtf dude. We just got a good mutant after the dud Dani. Mutant class don't even get champs released and now you want nerfs.

Harryatomix

BitterSteel said:

SecondSkriller said:

BitterSteel said:

SecondSkriller said:

BitterSteel said:

Here’s a R5 Dani vs R5 onslaught. I managed to get a faster time with Dani, does that mean onslaught needs tuning up?

Damage comparisons in RoL are probably the last place you should look for evidence of a need for rebalancing

No, it means Dani needs tuning up, especially since to get that time your Dani crit on her sp2. Her crit chance is 18% so that’s 1 out of 5 matchups where it crits.

And I got this time without the crit on the last hit of the special. So 58 seconds is the cut off between being ok, but any more and they need a tune up?

And besides, using an insane damage champion like Onslaught as the bench mark? Why not go ahead and compare her utility to Hercules and say she sucks based on that too.

Both 2023 mutants, she should have had the damage, not him. He has the utility. The way I see it is that he offers much more but doesn’t have that much damage offensively and she is the offensive neuroshock powerhouse with much less utility.

How am I wrong?

Because that has not, and never will be the way the game works.

You don’t make one decision on a champ and only ever use them. Someone might not have onslaught, someone might want to use a mutant against Nick or Zemo (both of whom Dani is arguably better than Onslaught for).

Dani has utility Onslaught doesn’t, a very strong passive slow to deal with unstoppable and evade. Onslaught doesn’t deal with those. Dani heal blocks skill champs while neuro shocked, Onslaught doesn’t. Dani has a different form of damage than onslaught via special hits, occasionally useful. She has comparable damage to him for BGs.

I don’t think Dani is a better champ than onslaught. She doesn’t need to be. But damn some people on this forums are determined to prove (via RoL screenshots?) that Dani is the worst champ and it’s an insult she was ever dreamt up.

Some of you need to really just stop letting a champ design live rent free in your head. Dani isn’t meant to be a class defining champ like onslaught, and that’s fine. Use her for what she’s good for. Hell man, you’re taking 500k HP in a minute.

She is not good for anything. Her playstyle is very stressful without any fruitful results sometimes. Toad is better counter to Nick fury than Dani.
How often do you use her. I would like to know statistics about the rebalancing champs. How often they are used before rebalance and after when compared to other champs.
She has a lot of problems which needed fixing and kabam ignored them. Her rebalancing will not change a single persons view about her.
Be honest do you think her rebalancing did justice to her?

Harryatomix

BitterSteel said:

Here’s a R5 Dani vs R5 onslaught. I managed to get a faster time with Dani, does that mean onslaught needs tuning up?

Damage comparisons in RoL are probably the last place you should look for evidence of a need for rebalancing

Other than damage Dani has a lot of problems. Her energy vulnerability is short, her slow is short and she is supposed to counter herc and nf and they can counter miss, which goes against her kit.

That being said, I think we should move on from Dani as her rebalancing is also done and she is still bad after that.

Kabam designers wanted her to suck, stressful gameplay and making her difficult to work against her best matchups, they nailed everything needed for a bad champ.

They wanted their native mutant champ to suck and it matched with their expectations, that is why her rebalancing is how it is. Nothing will change after her rebalancing none is gonna use her. I don't even see her vids in YouTube. None want to make content with her as well. What an inclusive way to make native champs suck.

Kerneas

I agree essentially, but pardon a bit of my nitpicking: shouldn't 7*r1 be slightly stronger than 6*r4? Because ascended 6*r4 is similar to 6*r5 unascended, which then again is slightly weaker than 7*r2. Meaning that if you compare 6*r4 asc with 7*r1, the 6* should have better stats by nearly one whole rank

AverageDesi

Don't mind me

AverageDesi

My man skriller I need you to channel this energy into getting archangel fixed. His AAR immunity has been broken for a century at least

ItsClobberinTime

Agreed, it's wild to me that some people genuinely think Dani is a top 10 mutant. When I see a comment like that I just react with "lol" and move on, no point dealing with delusional people 💀

Ghostboytjie

This is the most i've seen @Karatemike415 post on a thread and the guy still doesn't listen xD.

Don't worry mike im ascending Zemo and Dani after crypt rewards. Even if it means no more Kamala on my profile.

#ZemoStrongTogether

PT_99

Let her go, she's a dead on arrival champion, vote for Viper/Madame Hydra instead

Da_Monstrousity

Kabam have said that there are certain Champs who were built to be a certain way.

It's possible that her kit is actually what they wanted to build. Let's deal with it and move on. She was probably designed to be a good defender and extra life counter and a wet noodle.