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Why the heck can't Onslaught counter cleanse?

Darkraw346Darkraw346 Posts: 2,024 ★★★★
in General Discussion
Honestly I don't mind Apoc not being able to deal with Cleanse, but Onslaught as of now is the pinnacle of Mutant kind in the battlerealm, he is the next evolution of Mutants, like how Tigra was to mystics with her Neutrelize, imo. We see that with his Daunted, and you can see he counters the old skill methods like regular purify, debuff immunity, he even counters Tranquelize (which is a more recent addition to the Skill class than Cleanse, which has been in the game for years now...) and you tell me Skill champions who can Cleanse get the upper hand on him? I can understand how over time you get away with letting a champ here and there an Anti-counter vs the class that suppose to counter him (like Galan's nullify immunity) but Onslaught is one of the newest Mutant champs since a long time, and he almost counters it all... why would one of the newest mutant champs (and the best, no less) struggle against skill champs that came before him?

Upon the opponent Cleansing a debuff, Onslaught should apply a matching passive...

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    captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Posts: 4,001 ★★★★★
    Most mutants don't counter cleanse but idk how bishop was able to counter all forms of purify/cleanse.
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    JLordVileJJLordVileJ Posts: 1,462 ★★★
    captain_rogers said:

    Most mutants don't counter cleanse but idk how bishop was able to counter all forms of purify/cleanse.

    I mean I ain't complaining, I have a 5 star r5 ascneded bishop
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    KikohouKikohou Posts: 10 ★
    captain_rogers said:

    Most mutants don't counter cleanse but idk how bishop was able to counter all forms of purify/cleanse.

    Storm X can also counter cleanse. Does onslaught's anti-purify have different code?
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    jschwerijschweri Posts: 52 ★
    He's bugged dude
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    Toproller89Toproller89 Posts: 476 ★★★
    It's because Kabam hates the mutant class and are always giving skill champs ways to take them down, this as an example and also NF bypassing Danis miss mechanic
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    PikoluPikolu Posts: 6,683 Guardian
    edited March 18
    Edit: I thought I had seen a conversation about this, but I couldn't find it in my 2 minute search so I gave up looking :)
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    EdisonLawEdisonLaw Posts: 1,950 ★★★★
    When Onslaught converts a debuff into a passive if the opponent cleanses it, the cleanse most likely happens first then it's converted.
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    MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 5,375 ★★★★★
    #BuffOnslaught
    Pikolu said:

    Edit: I thought I had seen a conversation about this, but I couldn't find it in my 2 minute search so I gave up looking :)

    This one? https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2505721#Comment_2505721

    The way I read it, Onslaught should inflict a Passive stun if the opponent Purifies it; regardless of whether the opponent achieved that with Purify or Tenacity. The same way Bishop does.

    However, Onslaughts ability has quite a few limits that might affect what the OP is seeing:



    This ability only works with his Personal Debuffs, or stuns from Parry.

    So if the opponent is stunned by a Hack/node; or Purifies a debuff from a Hack/node, then Onslaught won't counter it.

    @Darkraw346 can you give some more info? Test it out in practice mode?
    I can't do any testing myself, since I don't have an Onslaught of any rarity... 😢
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    Darkraw346Darkraw346 Posts: 2,024 ★★★★
    Magrailothos said:

    #BuffOnslaught

    Pikolu said:

    Edit: I thought I had seen a conversation about this, but I couldn't find it in my 2 minute search so I gave up looking :)

    This one? https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2505721#Comment_2505721

    The way I read it, Onslaught should inflict a Passive stun if the opponent Purifies it; regardless of whether the opponent achieved that with Purify or Tenacity. The same way Bishop does.

    However, Onslaughts ability has quite a few limits that might affect what the OP is seeing:



    This ability only works with his Personal Debuffs, or stuns from Parry.

    So if the opponent is stunned by a Hack/node; or Purifies a debuff from a Hack/node, then Onslaught won't counter it.

    @Darkraw346 can you give some more info? Test it out in practice mode?
    I can't do any testing myself, since I don't have an Onslaught of any rarity... 😢
    Prior to making this post I've tested Onslaught vs Zemo, Zemo cleansed the Parry stun and the Daunted debuffs, yet they didn't became passive, they were just gone
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    VaniteliaVanitelia Posts: 310 ★★★
    Yeah, Jabari can also cleanse and the debuffs don't become passive. Cleanse is working differently than Purify. Intentional? Who knows. In a complicated game, interactions like this are common. No reason why we should have both in game.
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    13579rebel_13579rebel_ Posts: 2,411 ★★★★★
    Darkraw346 said:

    Magrailothos said:

    #BuffOnslaught

    Pikolu said:

    Edit: I thought I had seen a conversation about this, but I couldn't find it in my 2 minute search so I gave up looking :)

    This one? https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2505721#Comment_2505721

    The way I read it, Onslaught should inflict a Passive stun if the opponent Purifies it; regardless of whether the opponent achieved that with Purify or Tenacity. The same way Bishop does.

    However, Onslaughts ability has quite a few limits that might affect what the OP is seeing:



    This ability only works with his Personal Debuffs, or stuns from Parry.

    So if the opponent is stunned by a Hack/node; or Purifies a debuff from a Hack/node, then Onslaught won't counter it.

    @Darkraw346 can you give some more info? Test it out in practice mode?
    I can't do any testing myself, since I don't have an Onslaught of any rarity... 😢
    Prior to making this post I've tested Onslaught vs Zemo, Zemo cleansed the Parry stun and the Daunted debuffs, yet they didn't became passive, they were just gone
    Zemo shouldn't have cleansed the parry stun
    He cannot cleanse stun debuffs
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    AcidBurn404AcidBurn404 Posts: 287 ★★
    edited March 18
    Onslaught does even better against crazy purifiers lol. It removes the stacked limit of daunted ( because it becomes passive ) and allows to to stack up to 20 daunted at max ( 10 debuff+ 10 passive
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    Darkraw346Darkraw346 Posts: 2,024 ★★★★
    13579rebel_ said:

    Darkraw346 said:

    Magrailothos said:

    #BuffOnslaught

    Pikolu said:

    Edit: I thought I had seen a conversation about this, but I couldn't find it in my 2 minute search so I gave up looking :)

    This one? https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2505721#Comment_2505721

    The way I read it, Onslaught should inflict a Passive stun if the opponent Purifies it; regardless of whether the opponent achieved that with Purify or Tenacity. The same way Bishop does.

    However, Onslaughts ability has quite a few limits that might affect what the OP is seeing:



    This ability only works with his Personal Debuffs, or stuns from Parry.

    So if the opponent is stunned by a Hack/node; or Purifies a debuff from a Hack/node, then Onslaught won't counter it.

    @Darkraw346 can you give some more info? Test it out in practice mode?
    I can't do any testing myself, since I don't have an Onslaught of any rarity... 😢
    Prior to making this post I've tested Onslaught vs Zemo, Zemo cleansed the Parry stun and the Daunted debuffs, yet they didn't became passive, they were just gone
    Zemo shouldn't have cleansed the parry stun
    He cannot cleanse stun debuffs
    Oh yeah, he didn't
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    Darkraw346Darkraw346 Posts: 2,024 ★★★★
    AcidBurn404 said:

    Onslaught does even better against crazy purifiers lol. It removes the stacked limit of daunted ( because it becomes passive ) and allows to to stack up to 20 daunted at max ( 10 debuff+ 10 passive

    Not when there's cleanse
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    OpandemonioOpandemonio Posts: 1,194 ★★★★
    It's because he counters the purify abilities, not the cleanse ability that purifies. It's the same thing with Jabari and Zemo
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    OpandemonioOpandemonio Posts: 1,194 ★★★★
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/356800/apocalypse-vs-purify#latest
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    Darkraw346Darkraw346 Posts: 2,024 ★★★★
    Opandemonio said:

    It's because he counters the purify abilities, not the cleanse ability that purifies. It's the same thing with Jabari and Zemo

    No s***, but the question is-why?
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    CyborgNinja135CyborgNinja135 Posts: 1,109 ★★★★
    Darkraw346 said:

    Opandemonio said:

    It's because he counters the purify abilities, not the cleanse ability that purifies. It's the same thing with Jabari and Zemo

    No s***, but the question is-why?
    Because they're different abilities at the end of the day. Same thing with nullify and stagger. Both remove buffs but they're coded to be different abilities
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    VaniteliaVanitelia Posts: 310 ★★★
    Stagger and Nullify are not the same. One prevents a buff and the other removes it. I think you meant Stagger and Neutralize do the same.
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    KikohouKikohou Posts: 10 ★
    Opandemonio said:

    It's because he counters the purify abilities, not the cleanse ability that purifies. It's the same thing with Jabari and Zemo

    But why does Bishop and storm X anti-purify also counter cleanse?
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    captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Posts: 4,001 ★★★★★
    Vanitelia said:

    Stagger and Nullify are not the same. One prevents a buff and the other removes it. I think you meant Stagger and Neutralize do the same.

    Completely wrong. Stagger don't prevent a buff. It nullifies the buff as soon as it triggers.

    You can verify this on unstoppable buffs. Fight someone who gets unstoppable buff while you're hitting him, like in that buff toggle unstoppable node or whatever it's called.

    If opponent is staggered, and you're hitting him, and he gains a unstoppable buff, the opponent will retaliate and hit you since it takes a millisecond to nullify the unstoppable buff. It means, it triggers, and it gets nullified.

    Neutralize reduce the aar of buffs, it reduces the chance of the buff trigger, so the opponent does not trigger it. But it does not prevent buff trigger.

    Fate seal actually "prevents" buff trigger. The above interaction with unstoppable, you can't see it on fate seal, cuz it acts like buff immunity debuff, opponent can't trigger the buff when fate sealed.

    Cleanse acts like stagger. Tranquilize acts like neutralize.

    Stagger is close to nullify than neutralize. And cleanse is close to purify than tranquilize
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    jschwerijschweri Posts: 52 ★
    I believe Onslaught's passive stun should work against champs who purify or cleanse. It isn't though. Also, tried him against Herc (who if you knockdown becomes stun immune) and it's not working there either.
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    Darkraw346Darkraw346 Posts: 2,024 ★★★★
    jschweri said:

    I believe Onslaught's passive stun should work against champs who purify or cleanse. It isn't though. Also, tried him against Herc (who if you knockdown becomes stun immune) and it's not working there either.

    Well there's a difference between stun immunity and stun debuff immunity
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    VaniteliaVanitelia Posts: 310 ★★★
    @captain_rogers Thanks for the explainer. What I was trying to go for is that stagger and neutralize impact buffs that's aren't currently active while Nullify removes already active buffs. It was a bad mention on my part.
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    Marvelfan30Marvelfan30 Posts: 1,161 ★★★★
    I was fight cheeilth with onslaught and she cleansed all the debuffs and none went passive
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    EdisonLawEdisonLaw Posts: 1,950 ★★★★
    Alright then this may be a bug, as debuffs that are cleansed should be replaced with passives.

    @Kabam Miike @Kabam Jax can you take a look into this?
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