Over $1000 USD!? Happy hunting to the whales. Maybe this will finally dispel the delusions that FTP could ever catch the whales

Technically speaking, an F2P player that is a dedicated arena grinder could get that many units in four or five months.

I don’t know what you mean by “catch the whales.” If we play the game identically but I spend ten bucks and you don’t, you’re never catching me. I don’t know what sort of person thinks spending offers no advantages. But whether those advantages are insurmountable depends on what you’re comparing. The top BG and AW players are not all the top whales. Those that aren’t, in a real sense, not only caught up to the whales, they zipped past them as well.

I think what he's trying to say is that after 8.4, a lot of people, me included, were finally able to start having rosters with mostly rank 5's being able to have more fair match-ups without as much punching down. However, Kabam seems to be speed-running giving up rank 3's to the spenders causing another large disparity. It's instrumental towards the survival of the game, I get that, but the periods they have where FTP/Minimal spenders are somewhat on par with whales is always so short, especially with July 4th around the corner which has to top these offers. I guess I'm just reminiscent of the time period where 6 star rank 4 was the top for so long.

please explain your math - i think im missing something

you start with 34 "free" points - that gets you 4 Omega Valiant & 600 Units that is another 12 points - 8 for the Valliant's & 4 fr the "free" unit spend - that is 46, then you spend 600 units to buy 2 crystals, and you get to the 50 milestone and get the 600 back - thus 50 is the "free" limit?

please explain your math - i think im missing something

you start with 34 "free" points - that gets you 4 Omega Valiant & 600 Units that is another 12 points - 8 for the Valliant's & 4 fr the "free" unit spend - that is 46, then you spend 600 units to buy 2 crystals, and you get to the 50 milestone and get the 600 back - thus 50 is the "free" limit?

Only 4 omega valiant crystals. How did you get those 600 units?

then further to this, you start with 34 spend 4800 units - 16 Valliant's - 32 points, that gets you to 66 66 gets you 6 Valiant's & 1800 Units + 24 Points (12 for VC's & 12 got unit spend) that gets you to 90 points and that adds rank 70 & 80 rewards, another 10 points (4 for the 2 VC's and 6 for the 900 units).

please explain your math - i think im missing something

you start with 34 "free" points - that gets you 4 Omega Valiant & 600 Units that is another 12 points - 8 for the Valliant's & 4 fr the "free" unit spend - that is 46, then you spend 600 units to buy 2 crystals, and you get to the 50 milestone and get the 600 back - thus 50 is the "free" limit?

Only 4 omega valiant crystals. How did you get those 600 units?

Here’s the math I’m seeing for the Paragon+ side specifically - broke it down to what each points-milestone step would cost, factoring in the cost from the previous units/crystals granted in the points-milestone rewards.

So with that, the total amount of units from your stash that you need to spend (again, I’ve factored in the Valiant Omega crystals and the units we receive, so this is just YOUR units) is 41,100.

EDIT: Forgot to explain that the free Cavalier crystals we get won’t count towards the Paragon+ event’s points. So we can’t factor those into the math. I’ll do the same thing for Thronebreakers and below and the free Cavalier crystals will be included there.

please explain your math - i think im missing something

you start with 34 "free" points - that gets you 4 Omega Valiant & 600 Units that is another 12 points - 8 for the Valliant's & 4 fr the "free" unit spend - that is 46, then you spend 600 units to buy 2 crystals, and you get to the 50 milestone and get the 600 back - thus 50 is the "free" limit?

Only 4 omega valiant crystals. How did you get those 600 units?

at 20 points you get 600 units

But how did you reach to 20? 34 cav crystal isn't even enough to reach the 1st milestone of Omega charge event.

Here’s the math I’m seeing - broke it down to what each milestone point step would cost, factoring in the cost from the previous units/crystals granted in the milestone rewards.

So with that, the total amount of units from your stash that you need to spend (again, I’ve factored in the Valiant Omega crystals and the units we receive, so this is just YOUR units) is 41,100.

and the 34 points you get with the event, where did you incorporate that?

Here’s the math I’m seeing - broke it down to what each milestone point step would cost, factoring in the cost from the previous units/crystals granted in the milestone rewards.

So with that, the total amount of units from your stash that you need to spend (again, I’ve factored in the Valiant Omega crystals and the units we receive, so this is just YOUR units) is 41,100.

and the 34 points you get with the event, where did you incorporate that?

Those free Alpha crystals are for Thronebreaker and below, they won’t count for Paragons and Valiants.

Here’s the math I’m seeing for the Paragon+ side specifically - broke it down to what each points-milestone step would cost, factoring in the cost from the previous units/crystals granted in the points-milestone rewards.

So with that, the total amount of units from your stash that you need to spend (again, I’ve factored in the Valiant Omega crystals and the units we receive, so this is just YOUR units) is 41,100.

EDIT: Forgot to explain that the free Cavalier crystals we get won’t count towards the Paragon+ event’s points. So we can’t factor those into the math. I’ll do the same thing for Thronebreakers and below and the free Cavalier crystals will be included there.

Paragon+ players also get 14 paragon omega crystals from the Alpha Route milestones so they need to be taken into account.

please explain your math - i think im missing something

you start with 34 "free" points - that gets you 4 Omega Valiant & 600 Units that is another 12 points - 8 for the Valliant's & 4 fr the "free" unit spend - that is 46, then you spend 600 units to buy 2 crystals, and you get to the 50 milestone and get the 600 back - thus 50 is the "free" limit?

The 34 "free points" only count in the Alpha event, not the Omega event. So no omega valiant crystals or free units. After that your whole math falls apart. DNA's math is correct. Just wish he'd made a specific line in the table for 185 points in Alpha event (12450 units if anyone is curious).

please explain your math - i think im missing something

you start with 34 "free" points - that gets you 4 Omega Valiant & 600 Units that is another 12 points - 8 for the Valliant's & 4 fr the "free" unit spend - that is 46, then you spend 600 units to buy 2 crystals, and you get to the 50 milestone and get the 600 back - thus 50 is the "free" limit?

The 34 "free points" only count in the Alpha event, not the Omega event. So no omega valiant crystals or free units. After that your whole math falls apart. DNA's math is correct. Just wish he'd made a specific line in the table for 185 points in Alpha event (12450 units if anyone is curious).

ok thanks, thought i missed something, the man is hardly ever wrong with his math

Here’s the math I’m seeing for the Paragon+ side specifically - broke it down to what each points-milestone step would cost, factoring in the cost from the previous units/crystals granted in the points-milestone rewards.

So with that, the total amount of units from your stash that you need to spend (again, I’ve factored in the Valiant Omega crystals and the units we receive, so this is just YOUR units) is 41,100.

EDIT: Forgot to explain that the free Cavalier crystals we get won’t count towards the Paragon+ event’s points. So we can’t factor those into the math. I’ll do the same thing for Thronebreakers and below and the free Cavalier crystals will be included there.

Paragon+ players also get 14 paragon omega crystals from the Alpha Route milestones so they need to be taken into account.

The correct full unit cost is 36,900

Good catch!! Completely missed that. Still too many units lmao.

Let me add the math on the 34 free crystals, which require 10 points each.

A total of 34 x 10 points = 340 points to collect them all.

5 points for winning with the 6 mentioned champs, per fight.

340 / 5 = 68. You must win 68 single fights = 22.66 rounds in the arena where you only use the mentioned champs and win all fights.

Personally, I have; 4 x Molegod 5 x Quicksilver 5 x Longshot 5 x Corvus 4 x Omega Red 4 x Omega sentinel

9 fights per round, 340 points in just over 4 hours with a 2 hour cooldown of 2*s > 5*s…

This is for everyone to be done easy peasy

Another possibility is you could take one of those champs and auto fight them through one of the low difficulty EQ maps, and pick up some units on the side.

Heavy arena grinders are, of course, likely to pick up these points almost automatically.

The funniest thing I've seen in the forum since goli is people not only questioning, but arguing against dna's math

Nah, questioning them is fine. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes. However, I do know that the 36900 unit number was confirmed by the developers on the CCP server as being the intended top spend max-out for Omega, and independently reached by a couple of other quants. So that number at least seems safe.

The funniest thing I've seen in the forum since goli is people not only questioning, but arguing against dna's math

Nah, questioning them is fine. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes. However, I do know that the 36900 unit number was confirmed by the developers on the CCP server as being the intended top spend max-out for Omega, and independently reached by a couple of other quants. So that number at least seems safe.

Until we get the super secret mega bonus offer that only appears if you reach the last milestone and will cost 10000 extra units

The funniest thing I've seen in the forum since goli is people not only questioning, but arguing against dna's math

Nah, questioning them is fine. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes. However, I do know that the 36900 unit number was confirmed by the developers on the CCP server as being the intended top spend max-out for Omega, and independently reached by a couple of other quants. So that number at least seems safe.

Until we get the super secret mega bonus offer that only appears if you reach the last milestone and will cost 10000 extra units

please explain your math - i think im missing something

you start with 34 "free" points - that gets you 4 Omega Valiant & 600 Units that is another 12 points - 8 for the Valliant's & 4 fr the "free" unit spend - that is 46, then you spend 600 units to buy 2 crystals, and you get to the 50 milestone and get the 600 back - thus 50 is the "free" limit?

The 34 "free points" only count in the Alpha event, not the Omega event. So no omega valiant crystals or free units. After that your whole math falls apart. DNA's math is correct. Just wish he'd made a specific line in the table for 185 points in Alpha event (12450 units if anyone is curious).

I thought about it, but I figured at that point anyone in 10k+ units climbing the Omega ladder was unlikely to stop halfway to the next Omega milestone because at 13800 units you reach the 160 point milestone which is 900 units. You spend 10800 units to reach 140 points in Omega and 174 in Alpha. To reach 185 and max out Alpha buying only the better crystals (2pts per crystal) you would need to buy six crystals at 1800 units, which would then total 12600 units. You could make the last crystal a Cav for one point, reducing the cost to 12450. But if you were to go all the way up to buying ten Paragon/Valiant crystals for 20 more points, going all the way up to 160 points in Omega, you get 900 units for that milestone.

So starting from 10800, you can spend an additional 1650 units and land on 185 for Alpha, but you’d be buying one lesser crystal to do it. Or you could spend an additional 1800 units and also max out Alpha, but not buy the lesser crystal, Or you could spend 3000 units and go all the way up to milestone 160 in Omega, which also maxes out Alpha and refunds you 900 units from the Omega milestone. So you are really spending 2100 units net. That’s 300 units more for four more Paragon/Valiant crystals, which for someone spending this much already seemed to be too good of a deal to pass on.

Which reminds me: I said my calculations were net out of pocket, but they are net out of pocket to *reach* those specific milestones. They are not net of the rewards *for* the milestone reached, on the assumption that players had to have the resources mentioned to reach the milestone in the first place. The rewards you get for that specific milestone are factored into the amount necessary to reach the *next* milestone and reduce that amount by any points you’d get for free for reaching that specific milestone.

That’s why in my table it takes 3000 more units to get from milestone 140 to milestone 160. Thats the cost for ten Para/Val crystals, and there’s no rewards that score points between 140 and 160. But reaching 160 would return 900 units to you, so technically speaking it takes 12900 units of net spending to reach that milestone, after you reach it and then collect the units. Costs reflect all points earned from all rewards up to, but not including, the milestone reached.

Over $1000 USD!? Happy hunting to the whales. Maybe this will finally dispel the delusions that FTP could ever catch the whales

Technically speaking, an F2P player that is a dedicated arena grinder could get that many units in four or five months.

I don’t know what you mean by “catch the whales.” If we play the game identically but I spend ten bucks and you don’t, you’re never catching me. I don’t know what sort of person thinks spending offers no advantages. But whether those advantages are insurmountable depends on what you’re comparing. The top BG and AW players are not all the top whales. Those that aren’t, in a real sense, not only caught up to the whales, they zipped past them as well.

I think what he's trying to say is that after 8.4, a lot of people, me included, were finally able to start having rosters with mostly rank 5's being able to have more fair match-ups without as much punching down. However, Kabam seems to be speed-running giving up rank 3's to the spenders causing another large disparity. It's instrumental towards the survival of the game, I get that, but the periods they have where FTP/Minimal spenders are somewhat on par with whales is always so short, especially with July 4th around the corner which has to top these offers. I guess I'm just reminiscent of the time period where 6 star rank 4 was the top for so long.

The general intent is for the top rank/level achievable to only be the top tier until a certain percentage of players achieve it, where upon the next tier arrives. To actually pace this to a reasonable ratchet requires a lot of moving parts being synchronized. You need the effort required to achieve those ranks be high enough so that players don’t run into it too quickly, but not so high that it becomes too much of a slog to reach it. And these marks are relative to the player base at the top: what’s hard and easy for them at the time,

In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, the way Valiant rolled out was the best pacing for top tier roll out since 4* champs were the highest rarity. The amount of time where R3 was gated essentially via Necropolis, then Necropolis + spending, then Necro + Act 8 was the right degree of having skill paths, spending paths, and more content grinding paths integrated together.

But with this roll out, there had to be a widening of the R3 bottleneck for Valiants, and that meant that by the time players at the end of the initial rollout of Valiant (Act 8) were reaching Valiant, the early Valiants were already accumulating R3s and that pace was accelerating. I think that’s reasonable, and I don’t really think we can have an extended rollout of the top tier rank ups and also an extended period of those top tier rank ups still being constrained even by the top tier progression players. We can’t have the early Valiants waiting that long for the Act 8 Valiants to arrive before they could start building up their R3 rosters. And we can’t hold back the spenders for that long either, given they are the ones that keep the lights on.

Simple math is Save your units from this "scuffed Banquet" event and wait for July-4th broken deals because your mind will SHATTER for your eyes will betray you with first look of unit offers alone.

Simple math is Save your units from this "scuffed Banquet" event and wait for July-4th broken deals because your mind will SHATTER for your eyes will betray you with first look of unit offers alone.

There’s different kinds of players, not even just spenders and F2P. The whales are going to buy enough offers during J4 to have plenty of units to buy the unit offers in J4. For them that’s a self-contained spending event. And there are heavy arena grinders that have more units than they can spend on just the J4 offers, for whom this event might make sense.

If you are F2P and only have a limited amount of units, you might not have enough units to buy all of the top expensive J4 offers. The optimum strategy for them might be to spend a limited amount of units on Omega, and then a limited amount of units on J4. Or they might decide to skip both, and target all of their units on Cyber weekend.

Which strategy you pursue is probably very personalized to your circumstances.

Simple math is Save your units from this "scuffed Banquet" event and wait for July-4th broken deals because your mind will SHATTER for your eyes will betray you with first look of unit offers alone.

There’s different kinds of players, not even just spenders and F2P. The whales are going to buy enough offers during J4 to have plenty of units to buy the unit offers in J4. For them that’s a self-contained spending event. And there are heavy arena grinders that have more units than they can spend on just the J4 offers, for whom this event might make sense.

If you are F2P and only have a limited amount of units, you might not have enough units to buy all of the top expensive J4 offers. The optimum strategy for them might be to spend a limited amount of units on Omega, and then a limited amount of units on J4. Or they might decide to skip both, and target all of their units on Cyber weekend.

Which strategy you pursue is probably very personalized to your circumstances.

I can't see why casual Arena grinders should get into new 7* 300 units crystals, the champs inside them isn't too game changing, let's be honest.

And July-4th not only will give new champs but also rank up materials. Perhaps even Titan nexus? Who knows, last year Kabam surprised everyone from offers, this year 7* sigs and awaken is clearly. But biggest question is will Kabam be brave enough to give slight 7r4 materials? Not enough to form a new r4 but enough to tempt whales.

Yeah. I feel like there's a lot of good stuff to get in this event. I just feel like Kabam has raised the unit cost of the top stuff on everything over the last few months. Act 8-4 offer was significantly higher than any previous offer. Early access bundles for Valiant went up to a $100. Top purchasing on unit packs jumped from limit three to limit four to get the extra bonuses during events. It's nice they're tossing some great stuff at free to play for Spring Cleaning, but it feels like they're milking their top spenders harder than ever.

Simple math is Save your units from this "scuffed Banquet" event and wait for July-4th broken deals because your mind will SHATTER for your eyes will betray you with first look of unit offers alone.

There’s different kinds of players, not even just spenders and F2P. The whales are going to buy enough offers during J4 to have plenty of units to buy the unit offers in J4. For them that’s a self-contained spending event. And there are heavy arena grinders that have more units than they can spend on just the J4 offers, for whom this event might make sense.

If you are F2P and only have a limited amount of units, you might not have enough units to buy all of the top expensive J4 offers. The optimum strategy for them might be to spend a limited amount of units on Omega, and then a limited amount of units on J4. Or they might decide to skip both, and target all of their units on Cyber weekend.

Which strategy you pursue is probably very personalized to your circumstances.

I can't see why casual Arena grinders should get into new 7* 300 units crystals, the champs inside them isn't too game changing, let's be honest.

And July-4th not only will give new champs but also rank up materials. Perhaps even Titan nexus? Who knows, last year Kabam surprised everyone from offers, this year 7* sigs and awaken is clearly. But biggest question is will Kabam be brave enough to give slight 7r4 materials? Not enough to form a new r4 but enough to tempt whales.

Have the prices on july 4th been consistent? If so, does anyone know the unit cost to get the top deals?

Simple math is Save your units from this "scuffed Banquet" event and wait for July-4th broken deals because your mind will SHATTER for your eyes will betray you with first look of unit offers alone.

There’s different kinds of players, not even just spenders and F2P. The whales are going to buy enough offers during J4 to have plenty of units to buy the unit offers in J4. For them that’s a self-contained spending event. And there are heavy arena grinders that have more units than they can spend on just the J4 offers, for whom this event might make sense.

If you are F2P and only have a limited amount of units, you might not have enough units to buy all of the top expensive J4 offers. The optimum strategy for them might be to spend a limited amount of units on Omega, and then a limited amount of units on J4. Or they might decide to skip both, and target all of their units on Cyber weekend.

Which strategy you pursue is probably very personalized to your circumstances.

I can't see why casual Arena grinders should get into new 7* 300 units crystals, the champs inside them isn't too game changing, let's be honest.

Let’s take one spending point: 5700 units. That would get you to 100 points on Omega and 134 on Alpha. For that, you’d get (assuming I’ve added everything up properly):

That’s on top of the 19 Paragon or Valiant crystals you would be buying with those 5700 units. Now, I’m not saying that the J4 options for 5700 units won’t be better, but that does seem to be decent value for 5700 units.

I don’t know how casual is casual for grinding arena, but there are reasonably easy ways to arena grind for 5700 units. An hour a day grinder could get that in a couple months with a reasonable strong roster. And for an hour a day for a couple months, that’s not a bad haul.

## Comments

57★1,637★★★★285★★you start with 34 "free" points - that gets you 4 Omega Valiant & 600 Units

that is another 12 points - 8 for the Valliant's & 4 fr the "free" unit spend - that is 46, then you spend 600 units to buy 2 crystals, and you get to the 50 milestone and get the 600 back - thus 50 is the "free" limit?

102★285★★spend 4800 units - 16 Valliant's - 32 points, that gets you to 66

66 gets you 6 Valiant's & 1800 Units + 24 Points (12 for VC's & 12 got unit spend) that gets you to 90 points and that adds rank 70 & 80 rewards, another 10 points (4 for the 2 VC's and 6 for the 900 units).

Thus for 4800 spend you get to the 100

285★★247★★So with that, the total amount of units from your stash that you need to spend (again, I’ve factored in the Valiant Omega crystals and the units we receive, so this is just YOUR units) is

41,100.EDIT: Forgot to explain that the free Cavalier crystals we get won’t count towards the Paragon+ event’s points. So we can’t factor those into the math. I’ll do the same thing for Thronebreakers and below and the free Cavalier crystals will be included there.

102★285★★247★★1,637★★★★The correct full unit cost is 36,900

825★★★★DNA's math is correct. Just wish he'd made a specific line in the table for 185 points in Alpha event (12450 units if anyone is curious).

373★★★123 crystals to buy. My bad

285★★247★★1,542★★★★★688★★★A total of 34 x 10 points = 340 points to collect them all.

5 points for winning with the 6 mentioned champs, per fight.

340 / 5 = 68. You must win 68 single fights = 22.66 rounds in the arena where you only use the mentioned champs and win all fights.

Personally, I have;

4 x Molegod

5 x Quicksilver

5 x Longshot

5 x Corvus

4 x Omega Red

4 x Omega sentinel

9 fights per round, 340 points in just over 4 hours with a 2 hour cooldown of 2*s > 5*s…

This is for everyone to be done easy peasy

19,627GuardianHeavy arena grinders are, of course, likely to pick up these points almost automatically.

19,627Guardian7,486★★★★★675★★★★19,627GuardianSo starting from 10800, you can spend an additional 1650 units and land on 185 for Alpha, but you’d be buying one lesser crystal to do it. Or you could spend an additional 1800 units and also max out Alpha, but not buy the lesser crystal, Or you could spend 3000 units and go all the way up to milestone 160 in Omega, which also maxes out Alpha and refunds you 900 units from the Omega milestone. So you are really spending 2100 units net. That’s 300 units more for four more Paragon/Valiant crystals, which for someone spending this much already seemed to be too good of a deal to pass on.

Which reminds me: I said my calculations were net out of pocket, but they are net out of pocket to *reach* those specific milestones. They are not net of the rewards *for* the milestone reached, on the assumption that players had to have the resources mentioned to reach the milestone in the first place. The rewards you get for that specific milestone are factored into the amount necessary to reach the *next* milestone and reduce that amount by any points you’d get for free for reaching that specific milestone.

That’s why in my table it takes 3000 more units to get from milestone 140 to milestone 160. Thats the cost for ten Para/Val crystals, and there’s no rewards that score points between 140 and 160. But reaching 160 would return 900 units to you, so technically speaking it takes 12900 units of net spending to reach that milestone, after you reach it and then collect the units. Costs reflect all points earned from all rewards up to, but not including, the milestone reached.

1,872★★★★★19,627GuardianIn my opinion, and this is just my opinion, the way Valiant rolled out was the best pacing for top tier roll out since 4* champs were the highest rarity. The amount of time where R3 was gated essentially via Necropolis, then Necropolis + spending, then Necro + Act 8 was the right degree of having skill paths, spending paths, and more content grinding paths integrated together.

But with this roll out, there had to be a widening of the R3 bottleneck for Valiants, and that meant that by the time players at the end of the initial rollout of Valiant (Act 8) were reaching Valiant, the early Valiants were already accumulating R3s and that pace was accelerating. I think that’s reasonable, and I don’t really think we can have an extended rollout of the top tier rank ups and also an extended period of those top tier rank ups still being constrained even by the top tier progression players. We can’t have the early Valiants waiting that long for the Act 8 Valiants to arrive before they could start building up their R3 rosters. And we can’t hold back the spenders for that long either, given they are the ones that keep the lights on.

4,419★★★★★Save your units from this "scuffed Banquet" event and wait for July-4th broken deals because your mind will SHATTER for your eyes will betray you with first look of unit offers alone.

19,627GuardianIf you are F2P and only have a limited amount of units, you might not have enough units to buy all of the top expensive J4 offers. The optimum strategy for them might be to spend a limited amount of units on Omega, and then a limited amount of units on J4. Or they might decide to skip both, and target all of their units on Cyber weekend.

Which strategy you pursue is probably very personalized to your circumstances.

4,419★★★★★And July-4th not only will give new champs but also rank up materials.

Perhaps even Titan nexus? Who knows, last year Kabam surprised everyone from offers, this year 7* sigs and awaken is clearly.

But biggest question is will Kabam be brave enough to give slight 7r4 materials? Not enough to form a new r4 but enough to tempt whales.

307★★★143★★19,627Guardian10 T2A

4 T5B

4 T6B

4 T3A

1 T5CC selector

1.5 T6CC selectors

200 T2 Dust

14 Omega Paragon crystals

8 Omega Valiant crystals

25k 6* shards

7500 7* shards

1 6* Nexus

1 7* Omega crystal

That’s on top of the 19 Paragon or Valiant crystals you would be buying with those 5700 units. Now, I’m not saying that the J4 options for 5700 units won’t be better, but that does seem to be decent value for 5700 units.

I don’t know how casual is casual for grinding arena, but there are reasonably easy ways to arena grind for 5700 units. An hour a day grinder could get that in a couple months with a reasonable strong roster. And for an hour a day for a couple months, that’s not a bad haul.