Who is the better Dual Threat? Sasquatch or Red Skull

Polygon

Looking to r3 one of them for BGs

Comments

Terra

Sasquatch has become a pushover with most recent buffs to the science class

ItsClobberinTime

Red Skull can get nuked by champs like Kate and Juggs, Sasquatch rarely gets nuked by anyone other than Luke. It's usually 50 secs or longer.
As for offense I genuinely think he's also better, the only matchup were Red Skull is superior is Domino but I don't see Red Skull taking Bishop or Onslaught like it was nothing. Not to mention Sasquatch is a top Serpent option and we all know how annoying that guy is (arguably worse than Bullseye and Photon now).

It's a very close one though, Red Skull is insane too but I can confidently say my r2 Sasquatch has won me more matches on defense than my ascended Red Skull just because of the time stall.

Polygon

Sasquatch has become a pushover with most recent buffs to the science class

That’s my concern. He’s not really even a hard champ to fight. I bet even non science can take him fast like Juggernaut, Sparky, Masacre etc.

ItsClobberinTime

Sasquatch has become a pushover with most recent buffs to the science class
That’s my concern. He’s not really even a hard champ to fight. I bet even non science can take him fast like Juggernaut, Sparky, Masacre etc.

Juggs can't take him fast unless he's r3 I have a 7* r2 and the rage stacks reduce Juggs' damage a ton not to mention mystic dispersion. Masacre can't take him quickly either because by the time you get to sp2 he already has a bunch of rage stacks which again means very little damage. Starky I haven't tried I'd assume a r3 can do it cause he'll be dead before he even gets enough rage stacks to shut down his damage but r2 and below I don't know.
You're forgetting about the rage stacks here, those are key cause aside from the big health pool and the regen they also reduce your damage A LOT. Sasquatch isn't meant to be a tough defender, he's meant to be the biggest time stall in the entire game which he is.

Polygon

Sasquatch has become a pushover with most recent buffs to the science class
That’s my concern. He’s not really even a hard champ to fight. I bet even non science can take him fast like Juggernaut, Sparky, Masacre etc.
Juggs can't take him fast unless he's r3 I have a 7* r2 and the rage stacks reduce Juggs' damage a ton not to mention mystic dispersion. Masacre can't take him quickly either because by the time you get to sp2 he already has a bunch of rage stacks which again means very little damage. Starky I haven't tried I'd assume a r3 can do it cause he'll be dead before he even gets enough rage stacks to shut down his damage but r2 and below I don't know.
You're forgetting about the rage stacks here, those are key cause aside from the big health pool and the regen they also reduce your damage A LOT. Sasquatch isn't meant to be a tough defender, he's meant to be the biggest time stall in the entire game which he is.

Fair points, won’t argue with them.

However, my biggest concern remains in the form of the science nukes.

Titania, Hulk, Spam etc. An equal rank science nuke would just make mince meat out of him, and because of how commonly hyped and good those first 2 champs I listed are, almost everyone is gonna have them in their deck.

At first I thought I could use this to my advantage; i.e select Sasquatch just to bait out their science nukes and then use him on attack (so that they essentially just wasted their draft). However the issue with Sasquatch on attack is that he’s very dependent on Crit RNG on that sp2.

A friend of mine that watches high level BGs streams often told me he rarely sees Sassy crit during them.

Moghazy

13 hit nuke on Red Skull...don't think anyone can take down Sassy that quickly

ItsClobberinTime

Sasquatch has become a pushover with most recent buffs to the science class
That’s my concern. He’s not really even a hard champ to fight. I bet even non science can take him fast like Juggernaut, Sparky, Masacre etc.
Juggs can't take him fast unless he's r3 I have a 7* r2 and the rage stacks reduce Juggs' damage a ton not to mention mystic dispersion. Masacre can't take him quickly either because by the time you get to sp2 he already has a bunch of rage stacks which again means very little damage. Starky I haven't tried I'd assume a r3 can do it cause he'll be dead before he even gets enough rage stacks to shut down his damage but r2 and below I don't know.
You're forgetting about the rage stacks here, those are key cause aside from the big health pool and the regen they also reduce your damage A LOT. Sasquatch isn't meant to be a tough defender, he's meant to be the biggest time stall in the entire game which he is.
Fair points, won’t argue with them.

However, my biggest concern remains in the form of the science nukes.

Titania, Hulk, Spam etc. An equal rank science nuke would just make mince meat out of him, and because of how commonly hyped and good those first 2 champs I listed are, almost everyone is gonna have them in their deck.

At first I thought I could use this to my advantage; i.e select Sasquatch just to bait out their science nukes and then use him on attack (so that they essentially just wasted their draft). However the issue with Sasquatch on attack is that he’s very dependent on Crit RNG on that sp2.

A friend of mine that watches high level BGs streams often told me he rarely sees Sassy crit during them.

Titania still has to go for sp3 so that's easily 50 seconds still unless they want to risk pushing him to sp3 and not letting him throw a single special (which is very risky against a r3 Sasquatch even with Titania), not bad but definitely not quick enough to be considered a nuke imo.
Spam and Hulk I won't argue cause yeah they probably can nuke him down in under 40, but again Kate and Juggs con do that to Red Skull too so I don't see it as a valid argument personally. Every defender in the game can be nuked with the right strategy and champ at the end of the day.

As for attack, highly advice you watch this:

https://youtu.be/JcGiFxGD7Lc?si=sUO6Rm08kbFzjOA-
There's a huge misconception with the crits, he can absolutely still nuke with bad crit RNG (if he's r3 that is) and this video has a good amount of examples. You don't need a ton of crits with r3 Sasquatch, you just need to trigger Wrath and the fight is over whether you crit or not.

Rayven5220

They're both great, but Sassy doesn't get nuked by many champs. He's an absolute tank.

Terra

1
13 hit nuke on Red Skull...don't think anyone can take down Sassy that quickly

Tbf, you cannot and won't be able to get the perfect matchup each time.
Comparing the easiest and most difficult matchup vs a champion is best.
With Red Skull, it's timeout. With Sassy, it's health recovery.

captain_rogers

Sasquatch has become a pushover with most recent buffs to the science class
That’s my concern. He’s not really even a hard champ to fight. I bet even non science can take him fast like Juggernaut, Sparky, Masacre etc.

Yeah he is easy, but stalls. Again, you won't lose any health against sassy. But redskull deals a lot of block damage and is risky to fight.

captain_rogers

Also tbh I won't ban a r3 sassy but will definitely ban a red skull r3. Also red skull counter annoying defenders like domihoe and bullseye.

Emilia90

Red Skull can get nuked by champs like Kate and Juggs, Sasquatch rarely gets nuked by anyone other than Luke. It's usually 50 secs or longer.
As for offense I genuinely think he's also better, the only matchup were Red Skull is superior is Domino but I don't see Red Skull taking Bishop or Onslaught like it was nothing. Not to mention Sasquatch is a top Serpent option and we all know how annoying that guy is (arguably worse than Bullseye and Photon now).

It's a very close one though, Red Skull is insane too but I can confidently say my r2 Sasquatch has won me more matches on defense than my ascended Red Skull just because of the time stall.

Silk, Titania, Hulk, Juggs, AA, Torch, and a bunch of champs can nuke Sassy quickly. Even Dani can kill him fast

Pikolu

I'd much rather fight sassy without a counter than Red Skull without a counter. A lot champions can handle sassy too than Red Skull and red skull is another great bullseye counter since he never gets a bar of power.

EdisonLaw

Sasquatch still has the biggest healthpool compared to other champions and his rage stacks reduce damage, making him even more tanky both on attack and defense. Even those science champs will still take time to put him down.

SecondSkriller

Sasquatch has become a pushover with most recent buffs to the science class

Lol he has 450k health at r3 in bg, he’s gonna stall even the hardest hitting champions like Silk.

BeastDad

True dual threat.

ItsClobberinTime

Red Skull can get nuked by champs like Kate and Juggs, Sasquatch rarely gets nuked by anyone other than Luke. It's usually 50 secs or longer.
As for offense I genuinely think he's also better, the only matchup were Red Skull is superior is Domino but I don't see Red Skull taking Bishop or Onslaught like it was nothing. Not to mention Sasquatch is a top Serpent option and we all know how annoying that guy is (arguably worse than Bullseye and Photon now).

It's a very close one though, Red Skull is insane too but I can confidently say my r2 Sasquatch has won me more matches on defense than my ascended Red Skull just because of the time stall.
Silk, Titania, Hulk, Juggs, AA, Torch, and a bunch of champs can nuke Sassy quickly. Even Dani can kill him fast

Juggs and Torch can't kill a r3 Sasquatch fast, and Titania is a 50 second fight too. For Juggs to nuke Sasquatch you need a r3 (I've tried with my r2), for Silk to nuke you also need a r3 (I've tried with my my r2), even for Dani to nuke she has to be r3. You are never going to see any of those champs at r2 nuke a r3 Sasquatch in 40 secs or less, never. Red Skull at r3 can get nuked by an ascended Kate or a r2 Juggs, Gladiator and Adam, if played right can also absolutely nuke a r3 Red Skull even as 6*. There are very few champs who can nuke a r3 Sasquatch.

ItsClobberinTime

Sasquatch has become a pushover with most recent buffs to the science class
Lol he has 450k health at r3 in bg, he’s gonna stall even the hardest hitting champions like Silk.

This, some people are severely underestimating how tanky he is. Not only does he have a 460k health pool at r3, he has massive regen and each rage stack decreases damage from all sources by 5%. I've fought r3 Sassys with my r2 Silk and it was still a 60 second fight cause of the rage stacks. Not to mention almost everyone runs maxed md so there goes even more of your time wasted baiting more specials.
Red Skull is a harder a defender overall but when people have multiple counters in their decks winning due to health loss is no longer an option, Sasquatch can stall 90% of the time even with the strongest nukes in the game unless it's a r3 Hulk or a r3 Pig or something, very few can do that fight quickly.

Emilia90

Red Skull can get nuked by champs like Kate and Juggs, Sasquatch rarely gets nuked by anyone other than Luke. It's usually 50 secs or longer.
As for offense I genuinely think he's also better, the only matchup were Red Skull is superior is Domino but I don't see Red Skull taking Bishop or Onslaught like it was nothing. Not to mention Sasquatch is a top Serpent option and we all know how annoying that guy is (arguably worse than Bullseye and Photon now).

It's a very close one though, Red Skull is insane too but I can confidently say my r2 Sasquatch has won me more matches on defense than my ascended Red Skull just because of the time stall.
Silk, Titania, Hulk, Juggs, AA, Torch, and a bunch of champs can nuke Sassy quickly. Even Dani can kill him fast
Juggs and Torch can't kill a r3 Sasquatch fast, and Titania is a 50 second fight too. For Juggs to nuke Sasquatch you need a r3 (I've tried with my r2), for Silk to nuke you also need a r3 (I've tried with my my r2), even for Dani to nuke she has to be r3. You are never going to see any of those champs at r2 nuke a r3 Sasquatch in 40 secs or less, never. Red Skull at r3 can get nuked by an ascended Kate or a r2 Juggs, Gladiator and Adam, if played right can also absolutely nuke a r3 Red Skull even as 6*. There are very few champs who can nuke a r3 Sasquatch.

That’s fair enough. Thanks for giving your pov, I think both are fantastic defenders in their own right but sassy is definitely built different at r3

ItsClobberinTime

Red Skull can get nuked by champs like Kate and Juggs, Sasquatch rarely gets nuked by anyone other than Luke. It's usually 50 secs or longer.
As for offense I genuinely think he's also better, the only matchup were Red Skull is superior is Domino but I don't see Red Skull taking Bishop or Onslaught like it was nothing. Not to mention Sasquatch is a top Serpent option and we all know how annoying that guy is (arguably worse than Bullseye and Photon now).

It's a very close one though, Red Skull is insane too but I can confidently say my r2 Sasquatch has won me more matches on defense than my ascended Red Skull just because of the time stall.
Silk, Titania, Hulk, Juggs, AA, Torch, and a bunch of champs can nuke Sassy quickly. Even Dani can kill him fast
Juggs and Torch can't kill a r3 Sasquatch fast, and Titania is a 50 second fight too. For Juggs to nuke Sasquatch you need a r3 (I've tried with my r2), for Silk to nuke you also need a r3 (I've tried with my my r2), even for Dani to nuke she has to be r3. You are never going to see any of those champs at r2 nuke a r3 Sasquatch in 40 secs or less, never. Red Skull at r3 can get nuked by an ascended Kate or a r2 Juggs, Gladiator and Adam, if played right can also absolutely nuke a r3 Red Skull even as 6*. There are very few champs who can nuke a r3 Sasquatch.
That’s fair enough. Thanks for giving your pov, I think both are fantastic defenders in their own right but sassy is definitely built different at r3

They are, and I think both are r3 worthy at the end of the day.

Polygon

@Terra @Pikolu @captain_rogers those of you that voted for red skull, would you still have voted for him if it was instead for better defender over better dual threat? Since you mentioned red skulls use vs domino /bullseye.

Also would you rather ban the r3 chavez over the r3 sas?

I didnt bother adding Chavez to this poll since I already have Juggs at r3 , and since Sasquatch is way better on defense than she is.

Pikolu

Chavez is an easy champion to face, so I probably wouldn't ban her.

In general, I'd still vote for red skull because sassy is ridiculously easy with all of the science champions that counter him. (Fun fact, awakened spider punk dunks on sassy, especially when he is in wrath and spams his specials). Does sassy take time, yeah. But time matters a lot less than health and red skull provides a lot more opportunities to lose your health than sassy really does.

EdisonLaw

Chavez is an easy champion to face, so I probably wouldn't ban her.

In general, I'd still vote for red skull because sassy is ridiculously easy with all of the science champions that counter him. (Fun fact, awakened spider punk dunks on sassy, especially when he is in wrath and spams his specials). Does sassy take time, yeah. But time matters a lot less than health and red skull provides a lot more opportunities to lose your health than sassy really does.

Who is his best counter so far? Corvus? CGR? Serpent?

ItsClobberinTime

@Terra @Pikolu @captain_rogers those of you that voted for red skull, would you still have voted for him if it was instead for better defender over better dual threat? Since you mentioned red skulls use vs domino /bullseye.

Also would you rather ban the r3 chavez over the r3 sas?

I didnt bother adding Chavez to this poll since I already have Juggs at r3 , and since Sasquatch is way better on defense than she is.

Kinda unrelated but even as dual threat on attack I still think he's slightly better, he takes Onslaught Bishop Serpent and other problematic defenders Red Skull can't take + other problematic defenders Red Skull can take like Photon, the only two defenders Sasquatch can't take that Red Skull can are Domino and Bullseye but at the end of the day he can take more problematic defenders than Red Skull in general.

ItsClobberinTime

Chavez is an easy champion to face, so I probably wouldn't ban her.

In general, I'd still vote for red skull because sassy is ridiculously easy with all of the science champions that counter him. (Fun fact, awakened spider punk dunks on sassy, especially when he is in wrath and spams his specials). Does sassy take time, yeah. But time matters a lot less than health and red skull provides a lot more opportunities to lose your health than sassy really does.
Who is his best counter so far? Corvus? CGR? Serpent?

I still think Kate's the best, I did AW Red Skull showcase with her and I always do it in BGs too you don't need the stun.

captain_rogers

@Terra @Pikolu @captain_rogers those of you that voted for red skull, would you still have voted for him if it was instead for better defender over better dual threat? Since you mentioned red skulls use vs domino /bullseye.

Also would you rather ban the r3 chavez over the r3 sas?

I didnt bother adding Chavez to this poll since I already have Juggs at r3 , and since Sasquatch is way better on defense than she is.

Yeah red skull is still a better defender. I honestly never had trouble personally with sassy. I defeated him pretty quickly even without using proper counters (domino, sunspot, shuri to name a few).

Red skull on other hand is pretty terrifying. One small mistake and you lost 50% health. As pikolu said, Health is more important than time , and red skull mess with opponents health.

I have a r3 chavez and she is always banned unless opponent has a chavez. She isn't insane or something in offense. She is just great in offense and ok in defense. Idk why people ban her lol. But she is pretty solid as an attacker, and She is pretty versatile, I have used her to defeat even science champs.

Polygon

@Terra @Pikolu @captain_rogers those of you that voted for red skull, would you still have voted for him if it was instead for better defender over better dual threat? Since you mentioned red skulls use vs domino /bullseye.

Also would you rather ban the r3 chavez over the r3 sas?

I didnt bother adding Chavez to this poll since I already have Juggs at r3 , and since Sasquatch is way better on defense than she is.
Kinda unrelated but even as dual threat on attack I still think he's slightly better, he takes Onslaught Bishop Serpent and other problematic defenders Red Skull can't take + other problematic defenders Red Skull can take like Photon, the only two defenders Sasquatch can't take that Red Skull can are Domino and Bullseye but at the end of the day he can take more problematic defenders than Red Skull in general.

I haven't yet had a chance to look at the video that you sent showcasing the r3, but what youre saying is that at that rankup whether or not her crits isn't really that relevant as the fights still always end when he reaches wrath?

Do you know if he does problematic fights faster than Kushala would? Obviously not against Domino, Bishop, Korg etc but like Maestro, Serpent. She would probably take anyone with buffs faster like FAM, Hulkling,
someone with crit resistance like Doom and be safer for champs like Nick or Attma. Aside from Doom, he probably takes mystic defenders like Chavez, Kindred, Maw, Mangog etc better than her.

ItsClobberinTime

@Terra @Pikolu @captain_rogers those of you that voted for red skull, would you still have voted for him if it was instead for better defender over better dual threat? Since you mentioned red skulls use vs domino /bullseye.

Also would you rather ban the r3 chavez over the r3 sas?

I didnt bother adding Chavez to this poll since I already have Juggs at r3 , and since Sasquatch is way better on defense than she is.
Kinda unrelated but even as dual threat on attack I still think he's slightly better, he takes Onslaught Bishop Serpent and other problematic defenders Red Skull can't take + other problematic defenders Red Skull can take like Photon, the only two defenders Sasquatch can't take that Red Skull can are Domino and Bullseye but at the end of the day he can take more problematic defenders than Red Skull in general.
I haven't yet had a chance to look at the video that you sent showcasing the r3, but what youre saying is that at that rankup whether or not her crits isn't really that relevant as the fights still always end when he reaches wrath?

Do you know if he does problematic fights faster than Kushala would? Obviously not against Domino, Bishop, Korg etc but like Maestro, Serpent. She would probably take anyone with buffs faster like FAM, Hulkling,
someone with crit resistance like Doom and be safer for champs like Nick or Attma. Aside from Doom, he probably takes mystic defenders like Chavez, Kindred, Maw, Mangog etc better than her.

Exactly, yes. Wrath usually triggers 30-35 seconds into the fight and at that point it doesn't matter if your crit RNG is terrible cause you'll be able to throw two sp2s in under 10 secs and at r3 it's always overkill even with zero crits, and if you get one crit with 6 ruptures it'll probably deal over 150k. Sometimes Sasquatch can feel a little slow cause you end up throwing three to four sp2s in a single fight but this is actually because of all the increased combat power rate you get, he's not slow at all.

As for Kushala, unfortunately I don't have one so I don't know if he's quicker than her but he can take Nick Serpent and Doom in about 50-60, Hulkling FAM Maestro can all be done in 40-45 if played right, and yes all mystics Abs Man Kindred Mangog Maw Sasquatch (ironically) can also all be done in 40-50 at r3 with no issues.

Polygon

@Terra @Pikolu @captain_rogers those of you that voted for red skull, would you still have voted for him if it was instead for better defender over better dual threat? Since you mentioned red skulls use vs domino /bullseye.

Also would you rather ban the r3 chavez over the r3 sas?

I didnt bother adding Chavez to this poll since I already have Juggs at r3 , and since Sasquatch is way better on defense than she is.

I have a r3 chavez and she is always banned unless opponent has a chavez. She isn't insane or something in offense. She is just great in offense and ok in defense. Idk why people ban her lol. But she is pretty solid as an attacker, and She is pretty versatile, I have used her to defeat even science champs.

Keep in mind that bans are always relative to the size of ones roster, if you don't have that many r3's or not as many r2s of the newer Titan pool champs, that could explain why they ban Chavez. But personally shes lightwork for me , and I've taken her with multiple different champs that aren't all intended counters.

Figured because of that, that comparing her to Sassy would be best to compare her on attack to him on defense, and while she is a good attacker , I think Sasquatch is a better defender than Chavez is an attacker.

And based off of @ItsClobberinTime post, you could possibly even make an argument that hes a better attacker than Chavez is a defender, making him the better dual threat over her. (Especially if you already have an r3 Juggs like me)