Against Buffs

Guys, i am newbie. I have a 2 quick questions:

1. How does one fight with opponents who come loaded with buffs like steroids? ( unfair advantage)
2. Also what to do when the opponent fills his special 1,2 and 3 very quickly? is there a way to counter it/delay it etc?

Comments

Musha27

1. Use mystic champions who are really good with nullify/buff countrol ro counter them.
2. Use champions who with power control like tech or mystic or science champions and try your best to bait their specials.
3. Also YouTube has lots of guides, its a great place to learn stuff from especially if you're a newbie.

QQ99

Thnk you.
So we can legitimately nullify a buff through a mystic champ?

DNA3000

There are several ways to deal with buffs in MCOC:

1. Nullify them. There’s an ability called nullify that can remove buffs from your opponent.

2. Prevent them from taking effect. There are two main ways to prevent a buff from even happening. The first one is called stagger: it is itself an effect you can place on a target and when a buff is triggered the stagger “eats it” and causes it to go away. The other is neutralize, which is an ability accuracy reduction debuff. The short story there is most effects have a certain chance to happen. When something seems like it always just happens, it usually just has a 100% chance to happen (or more). Neutralize can reduce that chance, potentially all the way to zero. Think of neutralize as a kind of misfire. The champ pulls the trigger on a buff, but the bullet doesn’t fire.

3. Counteract its effects. Many buffs do things for which there are counter effects that don’t directly touch the buff, they just mitigate the effects of the buff. For example a champion might have a buff that continuously gives the champ power. To counter this, you could use a champion that can place the petrify effect on them. Petrify acts to reduce power gain. In some cases petrify is so strong it doesn’t just stop power gain, it can actually reverse it, so all power gain buffs *remove* power instead of adding it.

MCOC is a ten year old game with lots of details that have evolved over time. It will take time to learn all the ways things work, and which things counter which things. That’s part of the fun of the game: even for players like me that have been playing for nine years or more, there’s always something new to learn. But you don’t have to know it all to be able to play the game.

For new players there’s a new resource recently added on the official website: a glossary of common terms and definitions of things on the game. It is here: https://playcontestofchampions.com/news/glossary/

I would recommend perusing this first to learn what things are and the basics of how they work. It won’t tell you all the specifics, but it is a decent starting point.

I also have a FAQ on combat mechanics. It’s a bit dated, but also a decent starting point for the basics of how things work. It’s here: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/176360/frequently-asked-questions-about-combat-and-combat-mechanics

QQ99

wow. Reading this post is like a secret manifesto , with lot of tiny unknown details

I need a print out of this.

SO its at a granular level where based on who you face, you need to place a champ that counters their strengths.
What to do if my opponent is reaching Special 1,2 and 3 super fast and fires it with a message " Too Late"

WednesdayLength

What specifically do you mean fires it super fast? Who are you fighting

Cam97

You can reverse power gain as well as nullify or neutralize power gain buffs.

If that fails ghost with hood can phase through sp 3 and iceman can eat it while only losing 5% health (with armor buff)

QQ99

--
SO I have come across fighters during Act 4 and 5, where they v quickly gain three bars of power shown on their bottom screen and uses it to make an unstoppable attack. I cant defend or move. Its like a movie scene

Herbal_Taxman

We need more specifics, who are you fighting, what are the nodes, etc. Sounds like you might be facing a spite node, where the defender gains a lot of power because your champ has active buffs. If that’s the case, you want to either use someone who can drain / steal / lock your opponent’s power, reduce the speed at which they gain it, OR don’t have any buffs on your attacker so you don’t feed the spite node.

DNA3000

The further into the game you go, the more important picking the right match ups becomes. It’s especially important to read the nodes. In a content map, fights are organized into paths you have to traverse. In many maps all the fights on a particular path with have a set of common “node” - extra bonus effects those defenders get on top of their normal abilities. There are also “global” nodes that affect everyone on the map, and singular nodes that just affect one particular defender. These get more increasingly important, and it is important to read and understand them before you start to know what you will face and what you should bring to make that fight easier.

We’ve all had the experience of running through an entire path only to reach the boss and realize he’s unkillable because we forgot to bring something that will kill him and have to start over.

PS: possibly the most important lesson to learn: energy is cheaper than revives. If you get stuck, don’t be afraid to exit and start over. Don’t spend all your units on revives to keep trying over and over to kill something. Units are valuable. Spending them all to just bang your head against a brick wall hoping it will fall over is a huge mistake. We’ve all made that one also: it’s an expensive one to learn not to do. Try to only do content that requires at most one or two revives tops. If you’re spending more than that, remember it will only get higher and harder from there. Take your time and build the skills and roster necessary to climb up the ladder without having to spend increasing amounts on content completion. It will eventually get too expensive to continue.

Anyway, when you have a problem on a fight or fights, let people know what map (I.e. act 5.2.3), which fight, what are the nodes, and who did you bring. All those details are important to understanding what the problem might be.

Lokx

If you have that free champ calendar they’re doing, then you should have gotten wiccan by now. Wiccan is actually a really good buff control champ.

WednesdayLength

You need to be reading nodes. If you're at act 6 and aren't reading nodes and defender abilities then you're not going to get anywhere

QQ99

--
I am on Act 5. And i feel the level has just gone up all of a sudden.
I got Wiccan and vox , both 5 star yesterday and isopryne will come tomorrow.( 5 Star). They will play along a 5 star moonstar and rintrah and a 6 star hit monkey.
1. So revives need to be used v wisefully. Understood.
2. Units are valuable. Check. ( I have wasted then , more than once, check)
3. Nodes are vital to read. but, what are nodes and where can i find them?

Darthbane3141

Which quest are you on? Are you Uncollected yet?

DNA3000

I'm going to guess you haven't faced the Collector yet (but maybe you have). So let's say you're in 5.1.2. Here's 5.1.2:

I see a Gwenpool in there and a Scarlet Witch. If I tap on the Gwenpool, I can see her abilities, and also any nodes on her:

Under nodes, we can see there's not much there. A champion boost (more attack and health) and the node that unlocks special three attacks (champs don't get to use that on defense unless it is unlocked by this node). Let's go see Scarlet Witch:

Ah. We can see here that on top of those other two nodes, which everyone has on this map, Scarlet Witch has a linked node: a node whose effects come from another champ on the map and are bestowed on this defender. The node is called breakthrough, and it gives Scarlet Witch a very large armor boost, making her take less damage. Notice also that there are special mechanics: every time you hit her, that armor boost drops in value. So the more you hit her, the less she resists that damage. You can "break through" her armor.

This is a very simple node. As you climb higher, they can get increasingly more complex, and increasingly more tricky to counter.

QQ99

got it. i have seen these nodes more form a where to next station perspective, but i have not read it like this.
So basically, we are understanding the enemy in a deeper way , to position our best fighter against them.

This is where i am at. I am doing incursions and, daily challenges for last few days.
YOu think i have decent team, after i start using Vox and isophyne?

EdisonLaw

Lol at first when I read the title I thought you were against champions getting buffed

QQ99

---

-- Thank you very much.

I just pulled a hulking in 6 star. ( I wanted to pick a silver surfer though, but hulking won on popularity) Is he good?
1. What is duping? or duping a champ?
2. I was replaying act 5, stage 1 and went through the buffs the opponent had. He had couple of buffs including a 300 % champion one. Now , how do you decide which one to match up when i go through these buffs etc.
3. When you go through maps an dnodes, i understand its for the same purpose to understand who you will play in the coming stages, again to understand their strengths etc. How do i match my players with that?

DNA3000

0. Yes, Hulkling is one of the better champs overall.

1. When you pull a champ for the fist time you get the champ. If you pull a champ you already have again that’s colloquially called “duping” (duplication). The first time you do this the champion is “awakened” which means their signature ability is unlocked. Repeated duping of the champion will increase their signature ability level, up to some maximum. It will also earn you some bonus rewards, in particular some gold, some ISO, and some shards for the next higher rarity. So if you have 5* Hulkling and you pull him again, you will awaken him and get some gold, some ISO, and some 6* shards. If the champion reaches maximum sig level and you pull him again, you get something called a mas sig crystal that generally contains more shards, and occasionally things like awakening gems or signature stones, both of which can awaken or add signature levels to other champs.

2&3. First of all, attack and health buffs (or champion buffs which increase both) don’t have a counter per se, because they just mean the champ hits harder and takes more damage to defeat. It’s just stronger in a generic way. It is when nodes add special abilities that themselves either require special defenses or counters that there’s an opportunity to try to find those things. For example, if a node says something like “if you hit the defender you will sometimes be inflicted with a bleed” then obviously using a champ immune to bleed will allow you to ignore that effect. If you don’t, since defeating the champion without actually hitting the champ is going to be difficult, that bleed can be a major problem.

Here’s where experience and learning comes into play. Some champs aren’t immune to bleed, but they can reduce the defender’s chances to trigger effects. If you use that kind of champ, you might not be immune to bleed but you might be able to shut down the bleed, eliminating that as a threat. There are also champions that aren’t immune to bleed but can “shake off” effects when they get them. These champs might start bleeding but then immediately remove the bleed, again making that threat less or a problem. The game has these rock paper scissors mechanics where there are bad things, things that counter the bad things, things that counter the counters, and so on. This just takes time to learn, and no one learns all of them overnight.

willrun4adonut

If you need a carry on incursions, let me know.

Whats that?

To amplify what Sceptilemaniac2 said above, there are a lot of ways in which some champs are better than others, in part because this stuff has been built over time. In rough order of complexity:

1. Class relationships. There's something called the "class wheel" which gives a kind of order to the classes. It goes:

Skill
Science
Mystic
Cosmic
Tech
Mutant
Skill

It is a loop, there's no one class that is on top (I could have started with any class). The classes directly above a class gain something called "class advantage" over all other champs in that class (in general: there are always exceptions to everything, but in general this is true). The class directly below has class disadvantage. Class advantage increases your attack rating when fighting that class, while class disadvantage lowers it. This only applies to directly adjacent classes. So if a Skill champ fights a Science champ, the skill champ will have higher attack and the science champ will have lower attack.

Beyond that, there is a concept sometimes called "class identity" where for the most part most champions of certain classes tend to have certain kinds of powers or abilities, and usually (but not always) these are such that the common abilities of one class tend to counter the common abilities of the class they have advantage over. For example, armor buffs (which reduce incoming damage) are common among Tech champions. Armor break, which removes armor buffs, is common among Cosmic champs. This is not universal, but it is a common kind of advantage for classes to have over each other.

Important to remember, this only affects adjacent classes. Skill over Science, Science over Mystic, Mystic over Cosmic, Cosmic over Tech, Tech over Mutant, Mutant over Skill. It does not affect classes separated by more than that, because remember this is a loop. Skill is not even higher than Mystic, because you might think if Skill > Science and Science > Mystic, Skill must be even more >>> over Mystic. But this is a loop. You could argue Mystic > Cosmic > Tech > Mutant > Skill, so Mystic should be >>>>>>>>> Skill. But that's not how it works.

There's an article on the official website that summarizes this: https://playcontestofchampions.com/news/how-does-the-class-wheel-work-in-mcoc/

2. Basic ability counters.

For every ability there is at least one counter. If a champ has X, there's a champ with Y that counters that ability. If a champ has power gain, another champ has petrify (which reverses power gain). If a champ has bleed, another champ is immune to bleed. For most abilities, there are lots of champs with it, and lots of champs with abilities that counter it. You just have to know which ones they are. You need to understand how abilities work to understand this, this takes time to learn. Part of the fun of the game is: there's always more to learn.

3. Holistic champion counters.

Some champs are just very good at countering other champs due to the entirety of how they work. One champ has a bag of tools, and some other champ just happens to possess exactly what is needed to either directly counter or make useless most or all of that bag. These are special case situations, which again you just have to learn.

Here's an example. Terrax is a cosmic champ that can be a nasty defender if you aren't used to him. He stacks armor breaks on you, making you take more and more damage. He has a damaging field effect he can trigger which causes you to just take damage automatically while standing anywhere near him. He even gains indestructible buffs that make him temporarily take no damage. Sounds rough.

Then we have Wiccan. Wiccan is mystic champ, so he has class advantage over Terrax. Wiccan is immune to armor breaks, so Terrax cannot apply those to him. Wiccan has a special heal in his special one attack that causes him to regenerate all the damage he takes from energy damage due to effects like Terrax's rock field. Wiccan has a neutralize effect which causes buffs, like Terrax' indestructible buff to fail to work. Wiccan is a Terrax cheese machine.

[If you aren't familiar with the term, when something is said to "cheese" something in a game, it means that thing is so good at doing that thing it borders on making that thing completely trivial]

Say it with me: this takes experience to learn.

ThatGuyYouSaw235

buffs like steroids is going in the vocab thank you so much my bro

QQ99

---
1. I understand the class advantage concept. It also shows in the line up wit an arrow up or down.
2. I am beefing up my team with upgrading the likes of Vox and hulking. And i am still getting beat up in Act 5 by " The thing" . ( Mr steroid in the house) . He flicks away the likes of Hulking like barbie dolls.
3. I "Duped" 5 star prowler yestrday. He has gotten a bit stronger i think.

DNA3000

I'm not sure which Thing you're referring to (Act 5 has multiple chapters and multiple maps with multiple paths, so specifying Act alone doesn't narrow it down much) but in general the big issue with Thing is his rock stacks. If you hit him when he has 15 or more he goes unstoppable, which is a pain. The key is that if he uses a special when he has 15 or more he uses them up and returns to zero. So the thing with Thing is to learn to keep track of his stack and try to push him to 15 while he has at least a bar of power, then back off and let him use a special against you.

There are other things to note. He doesn't go unstoppable if you hit into his block, so you can hit him if he is blocking. This gives him power, so it is possible with practice to learn how to get out of the nasty situation where he doesn't have enough power to use a special attack but has 15 or more stacks. You get him to block, hit into block until he has enough power, then back off.

Thing also loses rock stacks if you hit him with a bleed. Thing is immune to bleed, but the act of trying to inflict him with one will remove a rock stack. So champs that do a lot of bleed can keep him below 15, allowing you to safely attack him.

When in doubt, or when it all seems like too much to learn or read, there's always Youtube. Searching for MCOC Youtube videos on how to fight X can be helpful to give you the basics.

Hulkling is a very strong attacker, but Thing is probably one of his worse match ups because what Hulkling wants to do is hit into block to go unblockable and then use a special attack that deals massive bonus damage while unblockable. But while this will work against Thing, the fact that you have to hit him while unblockable means it is easier to push him to 15 rock stacks and trigger his unstoppable, which would greatly minimize the damage you do to him. Champs can be very good, but have a weak spot. Something to keep in mind, and try to learn over time.

Personally, I'm a big fan of Prowler. He has a very cool bag of tricks, and he is especially good at fighting some especially nasty or annoying defenders (like for example Domino).

willrun4adonut

Since you said you're doing incursions, it's where u just follow my path and I get you to the end. It helps you get those zone 15/25 rewards (depending which zone you can access based on your champs).

Fit_Fun9329

Man I love this thread.

QQ99

----

Sure thing. How do i find you?

QQ99

Act 5, chapter 2: Abrogation is where he s at. ( I have been bean beaten thrice by the thing). Where are his rock stacks? I do keep watching the 3 green bars at the bottom, when he goes " Too Late" and brace for impact.

I like prowler too. (As much as i dont like playing with hulking.) Since i suped him recently, is there any new special move that has unlocked or its more damage that has been unlocked?