Frequently Asked Questions about Combat and Combat mechanics

Preface

This information has been collated from various sources, from the forums, the game's subreddit, discussions with other knowledgeable players, and my own game testing and experience. The information contained within is accurate to the best of my knowledge and ability to check, but the game is constantly evolving and information can be dated. Some information may also be inaccurate through an error on my part, although I've done my best to check for that. Corrections and feedback are always welcome.

The intent of this FAQ is to answer commonly asked questions about general game mechanics, as well as certain specific questions that highlight more general principles and ideas. It is not intended to answer every question ever asked, as that would make the FAQ potentially too long to be as useful as a guide. If this is well-received and considered useful, I'm considering expanding to other guides that contain other information not appropriate to this guide.

Also, although I intend to try to support this FAQ as long as it is considered useful, we should consider this a community resource, used by and supported by the player community. Much of the information in the FAQ comes collectively from many discussions and observations from the community at-large. This FAQ is in no small part a product of the contributions of the players who take time to contribute to and educate the players as a whole, of which I'm only one of many. To every player that has put in the time to figure things out and share that information with the rest of the players, and whose work I've used to educate myself and construct this FAQ, thank you.
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Comments

  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 3,600 ★★★★★
    Well done! As to Face Me. https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/53815/gladiator-hulk-doesnt-trigger-face-me-against-degen-under-investigation

    Hey there, I found the answer to your question. This Degeneration from the node is not counted as a passive or active effect, and so wouldn't be altered by any abilities that interact with those types of effects. It can encourage some more aggressive play in a fight [snip]

  • HCMmcocHCMmcoc Posts: 47
    thanks for doing this. it even answered some questions I had and were too embarrassed to ask.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,698 Guardian

    Well done! As to Face Me. https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/53815/gladiator-hulk-doesnt-trigger-face-me-against-degen-under-investigation

    Hey there, I found the answer to your question. This Degeneration from the node is not counted as a passive or active effect, and so wouldn't be altered by any abilities that interact with those types of effects. It can encourage some more aggressive play in a fight [snip]

    Using the current "official" language Kabam now acknowledges, Zibiit is saying that the node is not a Passive, Buff, or Debuff, which is correct (or was, at that moment). The question I was addressing was more along the lines of why certain nodes aren't buff, debuff, or passive effects and thus don't obey any of the rules of buffs, debuffs, or even passives, and at the moment the only reason I have is "because that's what they decided to do." I think this is in part a historical artifact of the fact that type tags were not used in a holistically consistent fashion in the past, and the way Kabam wants players to think about the tags today isn't always consistent with how they were used in the past.

    In other words, there's always a mechanical reason why we see what we see, but there isn't always an explanation for why the devs apply those mechanics in a way that doesn't seem to follow any sort of rules that the players can rely upon. Sometimes in the case of CapIW and unstoppable, things happen in a way that new players might think is wrong, but more experienced players can see makes logical sense. But sometimes like in the case of Face Me, the behavior only makes logical sense if you have information the game doesn't really give to the players, so even experienced players won't know what will happen until they test it (or someone tells them).

    The "subtext" of those last three questions is that sometimes we veterans can explain the game to the newer players, and sometimes we're still a bit in the dark; a situation I hope to improve over time.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,698 Guardian
    Agentk said:

    So if they have 90% armor a critical hit has a 70% damage reduction because that doesn’t seem to be the case

    Is this 90% armor, or +90% armor? Because I believe +90% armor doesn't add 90 percentage points of armor strength, it increases armor rating by 90% of its current value. In other words, if the champion has an armor rating of 300, +90% armor increases armor rating to 570 (300 * 1.9). That would increase armor damage mitigation from about 13% to 22% (@ CR100). A critical hit would ignore all of the armor in the first case, and all but 2% armor in the second case. You'd see a 2% increase in damage for the critical bonus part of your damage (which is not all of the damage). This doesn't count the effects of resistances, which add some complicating effects.

    To reach 70% damage mitigation would require an armor rating of about 4660, and to reach 90% damage mitigation would require an armor rating of about 18,000. We don't generally see those kinds of armor ratings in the game.

    If you have a specific situation in mind, I can try to investigate further to see if there's something unusual happening there.
  • TerraTerra Posts: 3,024 ★★★★★
    edited January 3
    There is 2 things I'm curious about.
    1. Does poison debuffs reduce the healing of 6*s adrenaline mechanic or is it normal levels?
    2. From using my 6* Strange in AQ, he bypasses the heal block/negation node (what the name is escapes me) with his adrenaline mechanic. Is this supposed to happen or not?
  • EdeuinkEdeuink Posts: 764 ★★★
    So aar reduction works additively? Like if I use a neurotoxin(-33% aa) on a champion that has a 20% chance to proc something, the chance to trigger that would be -13%, not 6.6%?
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,698 Guardian
    Edeuink said:

    So aar reduction works additively? Like if I use a neurotoxin(-33% aa) on a champion that has a 20% chance to proc something, the chance to trigger that would be -13%, not 6.6%?

    I don't think so, but I'm not absolutely certain here. I *believe* what happens is that when you have a neurotoxin debuff and AA is awakened, that debuff reduces the target's base ability accuracy which by default is 100%. The chance for any ability to trigger is your base ability accuracy multiplied by the ability's chance to trigger.

    This is actually something that pops up in a loading screen tip for the game, and it matches my experience in general. So if you have a max sig Archangel, the first neurotoxin debuff lowers the target's ability accuracy by 40%, from 100% to 60%. That means if that champion has an ability with 20% chance to fire, that chance is reduced to 20% x 60% (or 0.6) = 12%. A second neurotoxin debuff reduces champion ability accuracy from 100% to 20% (100% - 40% - 40%) and that champion's 20% ability gets reduced to 20% x 0.2 = 4%. The third debuff reduces ability accuracy to -20%, and that means essentially no ability with ability accuracy can trigger.
  • Devo2714Devo2714 Posts: 8
    This is a great thing you’ve done @DNA3000 thank you
  • Colonaut123Colonaut123 Posts: 1,868 ★★★★
    Thanks a lot @DNA3000. This is great info for both newbies and veteran players.

    But I would also add two FAQ's:

    - the difference between "hit" and "struck", "contact" and "non-contact" and "physical" and "energy" hits.
    - how the combo meters works and its importance for certain champions.
  • Colonaut123Colonaut123 Posts: 1,868 ★★★★
    To add to the immunity section:
    Certain champions are not immune but resist certain DoT effects. For instant, Storm has up to 60% Shock Resistance. It isn't entirely clear to me, but I suspect this simply means Storm reduces shock damage by a flat 60% (e.g. 100% - 60% = 40% shock damage).

    This is additive: if a certain node states it increases shock damage by 100%, then it is 200% - 60% = 140%. This confused a lot of players with the EQ UC Mephisto boss last year: Red Hulk's sig allows him have up to 20% Incinerate Damage Resistance per Heat Charge, but because Mephisto had like +150% incinerate damage, Red Hulk could only reduce that to 50% (250% - 200% = 50%). In regular match-ups, that amount can below zero but I don't think Red Hulk starts healing when taking incinerate damage. It is just zero.

    Champions who have immunity, does not only fail to apply a certain DoT status effect on them, but do not suffer from other status effects that deal passive DoT damage. Iceman is immune to incinerate damage, so the incinerate debuffs from Mephiso's SP1 do not apply on Iceman but neither does the passive incinerate damage from his aura. This is mostly important in certain match-ups where immunity grants extra power (such as this month's EQ Iceman), as every tick that the aura deals triggers the immunity.


  • SeraphionSeraphion Posts: 801 ★★★
    Agentk said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Agentk said:

    So if they have 90% armor a critical hit has a 70% damage reduction because that doesn’t seem to be the case

    Is this 90% armor, or +90% armor? Because I believe +90% armor doesn't add 90 percentage points of armor strength, it increases armor rating by 90% of its current value. In other words, if the champion has an armor rating of 300, +90% armor increases armor rating to 570 (300 * 1.9). That would increase armor damage mitigation from about 13% to 22% (@ CR100). A critical hit would ignore all of the armor in the first case, and all but 2% armor in the second case. You'd see a 2% increase in damage for the critical bonus part of your damage (which is not all of the damage). This doesn't count the effects of resistances, which add some complicating effects.

    To reach 70% damage mitigation would require an armor rating of about 4660, and to reach 90% damage mitigation would require an armor rating of about 18,000. We don't generally see those kinds of armor ratings in the game.

    If you have a specific situation in mind, I can try to investigate further to see if there's something unusual happening there.
    Nah it definitely reduces non crit damage by 90% but crit damage is seemingly unaffected
    This is what I found as well. Just try that fight vs Hulk (first enemy) in act 4 last lvl.

    Another thing I found:

    WS has below 20% armor (I think 15% or something). So when you crit him you should do "true damage".
    Yet when I put another point into the "pierce mastery" (2/3 = +10% armor pen on crits) I got + ~1% damage on crits. So there has to be something else than flat - 20% armor.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,698 Guardian
    Seraphion said:

    Agentk said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Agentk said:

    So if they have 90% armor a critical hit has a 70% damage reduction because that doesn’t seem to be the case

    Is this 90% armor, or +90% armor? Because I believe +90% armor doesn't add 90 percentage points of armor strength, it increases armor rating by 90% of its current value. In other words, if the champion has an armor rating of 300, +90% armor increases armor rating to 570 (300 * 1.9). That would increase armor damage mitigation from about 13% to 22% (@ CR100). A critical hit would ignore all of the armor in the first case, and all but 2% armor in the second case. You'd see a 2% increase in damage for the critical bonus part of your damage (which is not all of the damage). This doesn't count the effects of resistances, which add some complicating effects.

    To reach 70% damage mitigation would require an armor rating of about 4660, and to reach 90% damage mitigation would require an armor rating of about 18,000. We don't generally see those kinds of armor ratings in the game.

    If you have a specific situation in mind, I can try to investigate further to see if there's something unusual happening there.
    Nah it definitely reduces non crit damage by 90% but crit damage is seemingly unaffected
    This is what I found as well. Just try that fight vs Hulk (first enemy) in act 4 last lvl.
    I will try to test this carefully when I get a chance.
    Seraphion said:

    Another thing I found:

    WS has below 20% armor (I think 15% or something). So when you crit him you should do "true damage".
    Yet when I put another point into the "pierce mastery" (2/3 = +10% armor pen on crits) I got + ~1% damage on crits. So there has to be something else than flat - 20% armor.

    If you're referring to the RoL version of WS, this is tricky to test because apparently that version of WS isn't necessarily identical to the WS we get or that shows up in other content. That makes testing against him in certain circumstances complicated.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,698 Guardian

    Thanks a lot @DNA3000. This is great info for both newbies and veteran players.

    But I would also add two FAQ's:

    - the difference between "hit" and "struck", "contact" and "non-contact" and "physical" and "energy" hits.
    - how the combo meters works and its importance for certain champions.

    I actually wrote up, then removed the section related to this. The reason being I'm pretty sure I understand how those things work in a practical sense, but I'm not 100% certain they work in the precise way I would describe. I'm working to solidify those descriptions, but for the purposes of a FAQ I want to be more certain about the wording than I am now.

    I removed *a lot* of technical details from here that are either not 100% certain, or only confuse the important parts that the average player needs to know. For example, I did a deep(er) dive on types with knowledgeable sources, to the point where I'm much clearer about how that system works in the game, but its also much more complicated than most players would find useful. Also, the devs actively try to "hide" some of the complexity of the game with design rules that I don't want to contradict (you'd be surprised how potentially deep the hole is in understanding what an "energy hit" is in all respects).

    I am working on some edits where I might be able to insert something about this though: in particular I now have to revise the section on challenge rating to state that the one exception to the rule that it is only used within the DR formula is now in the Abyss, where skirmish charges are based on attacker challenge rating.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,698 Guardian
    Seraphion said:

    Just try that fight vs Hulk (first enemy) in act 4 last lvl.

    So I did some preliminary testing on those fights, and apparently some weirdness is happening there that I will need to investigate deeper. It isn't that criticals are completely ignoring armor, they are doing damage I can't account for at all.

    I did a quick test using a CapIW, and I started just fighting the center Hulk. He has no armor boost, just 80% resistance. My CapIW has 2301+272=2573 attack, and if kinetically charged he has additional 1150.5 attack rating for a total of 3723.5 attack. That means a light attack should hit for 930.875 or about 931. Against 80% physical resistance that attack should land for 931*0.2 = 186.2. However, if we assume that the devs "under the hood" are actually buffing Hulk's physical resistance by 8000, his actual damage mitigation should be slightly higher because Hulk has some intrinsic resistance and armor: about 362 resistance and 579. Adding these up (why add? that's another long story) gets us to 8941 rating or 81.72% mitigation against CR 100. My Cap is CR120, so that becomes 80.98% mitigation. 931 damage vs 80.98 mitigation is 177 damage. In my test I'm actually dealing 178 damage with light attacks so that all works out very close.

    However, light crits are dealing 1991 damage. My critical damage rating is 738 and vs CR 110 (Hulks' CR, not mine) that should be 180% critical damage. So a light attack that does 931 (before mitigation) should crit for 1675.8 bonus damage. Those numbers don't work in any way I can think of. First, if the non-crit damage is resisted normally that should mean that the total damage should be 178 + the bonus damage. 1991 - 178 = 1813. But the critical damage bonus calculated is 1675.8. Under these calculations the critical bonus damage is hitting *harder* than it would if the target had no armor or resistances which doesn't make sense. On the other hand if the entire damage dealt is handled identically that would mean that the total 931+1675.8=2606.8 was being resisted down to 1991 which implies 23.62% damage mitigation, which seems to be a completely random number.

    This is *before* I even look at the 90% armor + 80% resistance fight in the corner, which seems to have its own strangeness with numbers. But FYI the equivalent numbers I get there are 95 damage on a light attack while kinetically charged and 1951 on a light crit. Interestingly the 95 damage also works out if you make reasonable flat stat assumptions, but once again the crit damage is too high. So I'm going to need to do a more in-depth investigation to try to figure out what's happening here. I'll try to spend more time investigating to see if I turn up anything noteworthy. Maybe the rules for crits got changed again silently, or maybe there's some strange mechanics going on when we encounter these legacy non-flat stat-looking node buffs.

    (Incidentally, no cosmics on the team so no armor break effects happening to alter damage and no synergies so no extra crit rating)
  • SeraphionSeraphion Posts: 801 ★★★
    Thx for looking into that. I cant explain it myself.
    It always felt to me like crits ignore almost everything on nodes like + 90% armor.

    Btw wouldnt it be easier to test things with no extra damage (from champs) and 100% crit from champa like corvus/ghost? 😅
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 3,600 ★★★★★
    edited January 28
    Karnak is a great option for grabbing numbers. He has true strike, which ignores armor and resistance, that you can easily turn on and off. When testing with him it becomes pretty obvious how much crits already ignore, and it’s been like this from day 1 of update 12.01.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,698 Guardian
    Seraphion said:

    Thx for looking into that. I cant explain it myself.
    It always felt to me like crits ignore almost everything on nodes like + 90% armor.

    Btw wouldnt it be easier to test things with no extra damage (from champs) and 100% crit from champa like corvus/ghost? 😅

    Karnak is a great option for grabbing numbers. He has true strike, which ignores armor and resistance, that you can easily turn on and off. When testing with him it becomes pretty obvious how much crits already ignore, and it’s been like this from day 1 of update 12.01.

    I just jumped in with the team I had at the time for a quick test. I'm going to do more extensive tests with different kinds of champs (i.e. the True Strike situation @CoatHang3r mentions above) as soon as I more or less finish up the acorns.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,698 Guardian

    But I would also add two FAQ's:

    - the difference between "hit" and "struck", "contact" and "non-contact" and "physical" and "energy" hits.
    - how the combo meters works and its importance for certain champions.

    I should ask, since I think this is important in the long run, if you can elaborate on why you believe these would be important to add to the FAQ. What I mean is, from your perspective what specific situations come up in the game where a player might get confused about what these terms mean, or alternatively would want to know but might not know from context what these terms mean? What's the specific downside to not knowing how these things work. I have my own ideas, but I would like to hear yours, because that context might be something important and worth incorporating into the FAQ beyond the raw information

    I try not to get too sidetracked into tangents, but sometimes knowing the why something is important beyond the what can influence how the information is presented to players. Not always, but sometimes.
  • PsyLifePsyLife Posts: 399 ★★
    For the difference between passive and active effects, for me it has been the icon. The outside ring for actives, and a flat icon for passives.
  • TerraTerra Posts: 3,024 ★★★★★
    Im curious about a specific champion v champion question. Nightcrawler (afaik) inflicts a invisible bleed on opponent, and I've noticed this works against Thing to keep rockstacks down, Im curious if this can work on debuff immune however.
  • Tara_CurtisTara_Curtis Posts: 1
    I really want to know how to unleash the big special attack that I have been hit with and KO’d by several times? Sorry, I’m new to gaming and this game.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,698 Guardian

    I really want to know how to unleash the big special attack that I have been hit with and KO’d by several times? Sorry, I’m new to gaming and this game.

    Every champion has three special attacks. To use those attacks you need to build power. This is the power bar down near the bottom of the screen, one on the left (player) and one on the right (computer):



    Notice there are three bars of power total. If you have at least one bar and hit that hexagon button you will use a special attack instead of a normal basic attack (i.e. tapping). Every champion has different Special 1, 2, and 3 attacks that do different damage and different effects. The highest one, Special 3, is, well, special. Unlike all other attacks you can't really defend against it: you can't block it or evade it. It plays a special animation scene and just hits you. Some champions do a lot of damage with their Special 3 attack (there are other special rules like SP3 can't crit and other things I'm skipping over here).

    So build that bar to three, and then tap the button and you'll unleash a SP3 attack.

    Also, because you can't block it or evade it, you need to try to not allow the computer to throw it. You do that by trying to prevent the computer from reaching three bars of power on his side. Attacking him gives him power. Some champions have the ability to just generate power. You can drain power if you're playing a champ that can do that. You can temporarily lock his power bar so it can't move, if you're playing a champ that can do that. But the most common way to try to prevent the computer from reaching three bars of power is to do what MCOC players call "baiting." You try to get the computer to use a lower special attack, like special 1 or 2, so they use their power before reaching three bars of power.

    If you're just starting out, there's a lot to learn in this game, because the game has rules, it has mechanics, and it is full of about two hundred different champions each of which has their own powers and abilities. You want to start with the easy stuff and build up over time (which is how we all did it). My recommendation is to start with DorkLessons' Youtube channel, and in particular his Training video series. Start from the bottom with "How to Parry" and work your way upward. There's a specific video on baiting specials there among other things.
  • EdeuinkEdeuink Posts: 764 ★★★
    Maybe you should add these things.
    1. Passive stun on debuff immune vs. Passive stun on stun immune
    2. Why isn’t x champion immune to y effect?
    3. Why does a spider verse champion evade my venom?
    4. Why doesn’t x champion who has energy attacks heal from psychic thorns?
  • lowlevelplayerlowlevelplayer Posts: 3,800 ★★★★★
    Edeuink said:

    Maybe you should add these things.
    1. Passive stun on debuff immune vs. Passive stun on stun immune
    2. Why isn’t x champion immune to y effect?
    3. Why does a spider verse champion evade my venom?
    4. Why doesn’t x champion who has energy attacks heal from psychic thorns?

    the answer to all of those are: because kabam said so. It makes no sense if you think about it, but its the battleworld. Different rules
  • EdeuinkEdeuink Posts: 764 ★★★

    Edeuink said:

    Maybe you should add these things.
    1. Passive stun on debuff immune vs. Passive stun on stun immune
    2. Why isn’t x champion immune to y effect?
    3. Why does a spider verse champion evade my venom?
    4. Why doesn’t x champion who has energy attacks heal from psychic thorns?

    the answer to all of those are: because kabam said so. It makes no sense if you think about it, but its the battleworld. Different rules
    I understand all of those things, the reason I wanted those to be part of the faq is because I see them repeatedly asked in my alliance chat and on the forums.
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