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Apple Now Requires Game Developers to disclose odds on "Loot Boxes" [MERGED THREADS]

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Comments

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    You literally read nothing of what I posted. Lol. It's not about the rates being posted for me. My game goes on tickety-boo. I'll move on from the discussion for now. This is one of those agree to disagree scenarios.
  • UnsaferBinkie7UnsaferBinkie7 Posts: 658 ★★
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    The implications are that it is a form of Gambling, and it is not. Both legally and literally. What they're doing is creating a precedence by forcing the Apps they provide into a corner, before any legal standing has been found, and essentially saving their own behinds. However, the reality is they're using their power to set an example and no doubt appease their affiliates in certain areas of the world, for better terminology. I find it a diversion and quite hypocritical, given the fact that their own practices are in question at the moment, which I won't get into here. Not that they have been upstanding in my books to begin with. What it amounts to is using power to force the hand on smaller companies by way of obligation. It's an abusive move in my books. That's all I'm going to elaborate on because I have much stronger opinions on Apple, with validity, but I am afraid it will veer the discussion off. I'm just going to leave it at, I don't approve.

    Could be to save their ass, but with this, they can stop a potential thing with kabam.

    Doesn't matter if you approve or not, no one gives a ****, our comments don't matter, but what does matter is this is mandatory now, you're gonna have to face it, you're not a worker at kabam man, don't need to protect them so much.

    https://youtu.be/xzpndHtdl9A
  • UnsaferBinkie7UnsaferBinkie7 Posts: 658 ★★
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    You literally read nothing of what I posted. Lol. It's not about the rates being posted for me. My game goes on tickety-boo. I'll move on from the discussion for now. This is one of those agree to disagree scenarios.

    Oh so it was all for nothing, hm, carry on.

    This therapy session is over.
  • UnsaferBinkie7UnsaferBinkie7 Posts: 658 ★★
    CoquiFongo wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    The implications are that it is a form of Gambling, and it is not. Both legally and literally. What they're doing is creating a precedence by forcing the Apps they provide into a corner, before any legal standing has been found, and essentially saving their own behinds. However, the reality is they're using their power to set an example and no doubt appease their affiliates in certain areas of the world, for better terminology. I find it a diversion and quite hypocritical, given the fact that their own practices are in question at the moment, which I won't get into here. Not that they have been upstanding in my books to begin with. What it amounts to is using power to force the hand on smaller companies by way of obligation. It's an abusive move in my books. That's all I'm going to elaborate on because I have much stronger opinions on Apple, with validity, but I am afraid it will veer the discussion off. I'm just going to leave it at, I don't approve.


    So you’re whole platform is built on the foundation that loot boxes are NOT gambling, while the rest of the world says they are. This followed by some “mystery”slander to discredit said, already flawed argument, shows your bias against the company and not th issue.

    Lemme boil this down like a nice tricky tasty sauce; you don’t like Apple, you defend/love Kabam to death, you’re arguments are biased so there for invalid. And you fail to actually explain anything just slide around on the ice of innuendo and secret whispers.

    But I guess this is moot since you said you’re done so, Bye Felicia.

    He's coming back, trust.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    I'm sorry, I missed the part where the "rest of the world" agrees that it is.
  • UnsaferBinkie7UnsaferBinkie7 Posts: 658 ★★
    I told you, didn't even make big statement. Just said some 10 year old come back.
  • UnsaferBinkie7UnsaferBinkie7 Posts: 658 ★★
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    Except you have no take home on that wager. You can't withdrawal from your Account. You don't own it. You are renting the license to use their product. There is no payout. Ever. Your Account, everything in it, the game itself, is property of Kabam. It's right there in the TOS. Which is why it's not governed by an Age of Majority as Gambling is. It's not Gambling. No matter how people spin it.

    Lmao, I think he's serious.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    CoquiFongo wrote: »
    UnsaferBinkie7 wrote: »
    I told you, didn't even make big statement. Just said some 10 year old come back.

    Lolololojajajajajajlololol

    Wagering an item on the outcome of another item.....gambling. I’ve known this since I was tossing dice against the wall in grade school.
    UnsaferBinkie7 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    Except you have no take home on that wager. You can't withdrawal from your Account. You don't own it. You are renting the license to use their product. There is no payout. Ever. Your Account, everything in it, the game itself, is property of Kabam. It's right there in the TOS. Which is why it's not governed by an Age of Majority as Gambling is. It's not Gambling. No matter how people spin it.

    Lmao, I think he's serious.
    What definition of gambling are you guys using? I am unaware of any legal or for that matter dictionary definition that crystals would fall under.
  • UnsaferBinkie7UnsaferBinkie7 Posts: 658 ★★
    edited December 2017
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    CoquiFongo wrote: »
    UnsaferBinkie7 wrote: »
    I told you, didn't even make big statement. Just said some 10 year old come back.

    Lolololojajajajajajlololol

    Wagering an item on the outcome of another item.....gambling. I’ve known this since I was tossing dice against the wall in grade school.
    UnsaferBinkie7 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    Except you have no take home on that wager. You can't withdrawal from your Account. You don't own it. You are renting the license to use their product. There is no payout. Ever. Your Account, everything in it, the game itself, is property of Kabam. It's right there in the TOS. Which is why it's not governed by an Age of Majority as Gambling is. It's not Gambling. No matter how people spin it.

    Lmao, I think he's serious.
    What definition of gambling are you guys using? I am unaware of any legal or for that matter dictionary definition that crystals would fall under.

    artz7czdopdd.jpg

    So explain how the crystal system isn't gambling, you're paying for something, said thing has prizes, all chance, could be a win, could be a loss. Kabam casino...hm Casino Kabam sounds better right?
  • UnsaferBinkie7UnsaferBinkie7 Posts: 658 ★★
    Stryke71121 wrote: »
    The better questions are how much will kabam change the odds before disclosing? and how much will they straight out manipulate the odds to make them appear better than they are?
    As a bonus question how long before google adds the same requirement.
    second bonus question. will kabam hide the odds from google players?

    We will never know if they changed the odds before sadly, unless apple wants to be good boys and crack down on it somehow ;).

    If they release the apple odds, one could assume that those odds apply to android aswell, but it's always a safer bet if Google does the same thing.
  • Darkness82Darkness82 Posts: 275 ★
    This is excellent for the community in my opinion now we can find out the drop rates of crystals good job
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    @UnsaferBinkie7 You are the one who has defined it as gambling the onus is on you. There is term used to describe someone on the internet who relies on fallacious arguments and flawed reasoning....
  • Darkness82Darkness82 Posts: 275 ★
    Just got to wait and see the odds of crystals I’m excited to see this chsnge
  • UnsaferBinkie7UnsaferBinkie7 Posts: 658 ★★
    @CoatHang3r um answer the question.

    You saw the question in my comment right?
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    @UnsaferBinkie7 I am asking you to show me what definition of gambling you are using. It’s not that difficult. I have already stated that I have never seen a definition for gambling that would include crystals in Mcoc. I require the definition you are using because quite simply what you are claiming does not jibe with any definition especially any legal definition I have come across. You obviously have internet access so let’s see it.

    See simply put, every definition I have come across requires that for gambling to occur you need to put up something of value (hint units have zero value) for a chance at being awarded something of value (hint there is zero value in any item in game refer to the TOS).
  • UnsaferBinkie7UnsaferBinkie7 Posts: 658 ★★
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    @UnsaferBinkie7 I am asking you to show me what definition of gambling you are using. It’s not that difficult. I have already stated that I have never seen a definition for gambling that would include crystals in Mcoc. I require the definition you are using because quite simply what you are claiming does not jibe with any definition especially any legal definition I have come across. You obviously have internet access so let’s see it.

    See simply put, every definition I have come across requires that for gambling to occur you need to put up something of value (hint units have zero value) for a chance at being awarded something of value (hint there is zero value in any item in game refer to the TOS).

    Well I'm referring out side of the TOS it seems lol, guess spending 100$ for 3,100 units and spending them on crystals isn't gambling.
  • KpatrixKpatrix Posts: 1,055 ★★★
    I see the whole crystal thing as being similar to a ccg. You walk into a store and buy a pack of cards and hope you get lucky with a rare one in the deck. Nobody considers this to be gambling, or at least no one I know, it's just the way the system works.
    My daughter likes buying some toys that come in concealed packaging. You buy them with fingers crossed hoping for a rare one.
    I know there are some fundamental differences between these things, I just see a similarity between them.

  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    LoL
    Kingme.png
  • UnsaferBinkie7UnsaferBinkie7 Posts: 658 ★★
    Eh, we'll see when the rules are placed in a few weeks.
  • Mmx1991Mmx1991 Posts: 674 ★★★★
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    Except you have no take home on that wager. You can't withdrawal from your Account. You don't own it. You are renting the license to use their product. There is no payout. Ever. Your Account, everything in it, the game itself, is property of Kabam. It's right there in the TOS. Which is why it's not governed by an Age of Majority as Gambling is. It's not Gambling. No matter how people spin it.

    You are RISKING something (units or shards that are on the table to be purchased) FOR something of VALUE.

    It's gambling.
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Posts: 2,144 ★★★★★
    “Apps offering ‘loot boxes’ or other mechanisms that provide randomized virtual items for purchase must disclose the odds of receiving each type of item to customers prior to purchase.”
    That's straight from the App Store guidelines. There is no mention of gambling, so why is everyone going on about it?
    By the definition of loot boxes used in the official Apple guidelines, the in game crystals are loot boxes, and therefore Kabam must follow the rules set by Apple if they want MCoC to stay in the app store.
  • Mmx1991Mmx1991 Posts: 674 ★★★★
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    See simply put, every definition I have come across requires that for gambling to occur you need to put up something of value (hint units have zero value) for a chance at being awarded something of value (hint there is zero value in any item in game refer to the TOS).

    I don't care what the TOS says.

    Units and shards CAN be purchased. You spin them for a chance at something. You can win or lose. It's gambling straight up.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    Mmx1991 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    Except you have no take home on that wager. You can't withdrawal from your Account. You don't own it. You are renting the license to use their product. There is no payout. Ever. Your Account, everything in it, the game itself, is property of Kabam. It's right there in the TOS. Which is why it's not governed by an Age of Majority as Gambling is. It's not Gambling. No matter how people spin it.

    You are RISKING something (units or shards that are on the table to be purchased) FOR something of VALUE.

    It's gambling.
    1. Read the tos, the contract you entered into when installing the game. There is zero redeemable value in in game items and all sales after final. You have in essence bought tokens at an arcade that are only redeemable for content within the game. Furthermore all content including your account is owned by Kabam.
    2. Being that you own nothing it has zero tangible value.
    3. In arguendo, if it did have value you are not at risk of losing as you do receive something in return guaranteed.
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Posts: 2,144 ★★★★★
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    Mmx1991 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    Except you have no take home on that wager. You can't withdrawal from your Account. You don't own it. You are renting the license to use their product. There is no payout. Ever. Your Account, everything in it, the game itself, is property of Kabam. It's right there in the TOS. Which is why it's not governed by an Age of Majority as Gambling is. It's not Gambling. No matter how people spin it.

    You are RISKING something (units or shards that are on the table to be purchased) FOR something of VALUE.

    It's gambling.
    1. Read the tos, the contract you entered into when installing the game. There is zero redeemable value in in game items and all sales after final. You have in essence bought tokens at an arcade that are only redeemable for content within the game. Furthermore all content including your account is owned by Kabam.
    2. Being that you own nothing it has zero tangible value.
    3. In arguendo, if it did have value you are not at risk of losing as you do receive something in return guaranteed.

    The game ToS mean absolutely nothing to Apple, because Apple have all the power. Apple is the 500 pound gorilla that gets to sit wherever it wants to.
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