Degeneration & Like Damage Over Time Debuffs Should Not Scale to Node Buffs

Dear Kabam and all,

I strongly feel that just as regeneration was changed so that it would not be scaled to node buffs, that debuffs, especially those with unavoidable damage, should also not be scaled to node buffs. It does not make sense to have one scale and the others not. Debuffs that scale with node buffs make some fights unnecessarily impossible and removes skill from the game as a factor to succeed. For example, fighting Dormammu in M.O.D.O.K. labs with a max 4* and having Dexterity (I am not going to remove Dexterity for lab runs or for a single event-related thing; I like to keep my masteries set). I can often make it through with SL as long as I can get enough damage out in time, but many champs won't survive to get him down to even half health, including healers like X-23. Skill will only help determine how much damage you do before you die there and you'll die faster the more buffs you spawn (X23 had degeneration constant because of regenerations). This is not at all an enjoyable aspect of the game. I think we should go all or nothing with scaling. Bleeds, Poisons, Incineration, Degeneration...all of it should not scale to node buffs, just as regeneration does not. Either they all should, or they all shouldn't. I realize that sense is not the only factor in making these determinations, but it makes sense to me. I think the game would be far more enjoyable if all of them did not scale with node buffs.

I also agree with Dorky Diggity Dave and many others that unavoidable damage is also not an enjoyable part of the game at all. I wish it was gone entirely.

Sincerely,
Tiemilios

Comments

ESF

Agree 1,000 percent.

I believe very strongly that Degeneration and Unavoidable Damage were the worst introductions to this game because they don't add a single bit of strategy or enjoyment. None.

The Ice Phoenix debacle is merely the latest example. That stuff, those nodes and characters, aren't fun. That's not a throwaway word or concept -- challenging content loses all enjoyment when it sacrifices strategy for unavoidable damage

Cakes

Agreed. With nodes like bane, it's so unfair that if we get the debuff we die within seconds. But if the enemy starts to lose health it's such minimal damage.

Tiemilios

Thanks, Cakes and ESF. I'd love to get more support for this.

Grimmbear

See though, I like people like you dying to my Dorm and Magik. So nah, keep it as is.

Tiemilios

Magik's Limbo isn't even totally unavoidable, but I do think it should not scale to her buff level. Grimm, I take out bosses like yours all the time and I don't feel your comment adds any value. Personally, I'd rather have tougher node buffs that require more skill than have unavoidable damage. If regen is not buffed to a node, neither should anything else be. Have you completed the Uncollected event quest 100% facing Ice Phoenix or have Uncollected at all? I do and have. I think that shows I have the skill to overcome, but I still feel this should be addressed.

SomeoneElse

Degeneration and other unavoidable damage debuffs are a cheap and unimaginative way to add psuedo-difficulty to the game. Instead of providing a real challenge that takes skill to overcome, they make us lose massive amount of health for no reason. It shows very poor game design technique. It is not fun for anyone, but they do not care as long as people keep spending money to keep playing.

unknown

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Tiemilios

Thanks SomeoneElse and Coqui! They did change Regen, so there's always a chance. I would very much like to think that Kabam would indeed consider it and give them the benefit of the doubt. As I said, they can compensate with real difficulty in other ways... but with more avoidable damage and tougher node buffs and the like. I'm all for SKILL and PROPER EXECUTION being the deciding factors.

Grimmbear

No duh I've beaten uncollected, it was a joke of an event. And you can avoid degen if you're skilled enough. It's really not that hard. I say this as someone who's in a top 15 ally, so yes I'm aware of "difficulties" in the game. This isn't one if them.

wSWeaponX

Why does spectral trigger willpower and not the 50%
class attack debuff?.. Or why does spectral trigger willpower and the degens debuffs don't ?

ESF

Grimmbear wrote: »

See though, I like people like you dying to my Dorm and Magik. So nah, keep it as is.

This comment is exactly why Blade exists and won't be changed, either.

unknown

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Tiemilios

There are some you can avoid while getting uncollected, such as by making sure not to go more than 6 seconds without hitting the enemy when nodes have the Brute Force buff. However, this is specifically focused on those damage over time debuffs you cannot avoid and I'm certainly not looking for comments from people in top alliances that just want to make cocky comments and talk about how great they are. I'd like to keep it focused on what it was meant to address and to make a case for the majority of players out there...not just top players who now have maxed 5* champs which do make those events much easier.

Any useful comments out there?

Tiemilios

Clarification, this is specifically focused on the SCALING OF DEBUFFS and those that do scale. Actually, unavoidable debuffs and degeneration is a secondary topic.

LocoMotives

I’ve fought with @Tiemilios, he doesn’t lack skill. We used to kill war bosses back in the day together 🙂

I agree with debuffs not scaling. I was confused after the initial node changes to regen because I assumed this was going to be the case across all war nodes. Limbo/degen/coldsnap/etc. should be flat values that aren’t affected by local boosts.

Tiemilios

Thank you @LocoMotives . Appreciate your input! I think a lot of us have been confused by the same.

Nexus_UY_Scuti

Tiemilios wrote: »

I am not going to remove Dexterity for lab runs or for a single event-related thing; I like to keep my masteries set

And Kabam likes your money. Guess who wins?

Tiemilios

Well, as I said...

Sense is not the only factor that goes into these decisions...

I just really hope they do listen to things like this and make the change for the integrity of the game.

Tiemilios

Just to make one more point...I have MUCH LESS of a problem with unavoidable damage if it is NOT SCALED to a node buff. That is way more manageable...and I think...far more fair. Even Dormammu in AQ...I would not mind his degen there if it was not scaled.

Heddarta

Agreed. Hopeful that Kabam will read this thread and consider it since it’s a truly thought-out idea; forum posts should be unavoidable to Kabam like degeneration is to us.

Nexus_UY_Scuti

Integrity of the game, that's such a misnomer.

The game doesn't need integrity. It only needs two thing: 1) keep people playing, 2) make money.

Unless it threatens the above 2 factors, nothing is gonna change.

Which is exactly why we are not seeing alliance bases yet.

Grimmbear

CoquiFongo wrote: »

Grimmbear wrote: »

No duh I've beaten uncollected, it was a joke of an event. And you can avoid degen if you're skilled enough. It's really not that hard. I say this as someone who's in a top 15 ally, so yes I'm aware of "difficulties" in the game. This isn't one if them.

Please inform me on how you can avoid degen. And I guess the top 1% are pro unavoidable damage?

And this is not a joke of an event, modok itself is a challenge of timing and skill. I’ve beaten it also. Wanna compare truck engine size next?

Stop proccing dexterity

wSWeaponX

I don't like something because it's too hard. Make it easy.

Feeney234

I strongly agree with this! Dorm in master lab definitely screwed me out if a few lab runs.

Tiemilios

Thanks @Feeney234 !

It's not about making it easy, it's about promoting skill as a key factor to win, which Kabam set out to do as their reason for many changes in all of the last major updates. As i said, I'd prefer stronger node buffs to debuffs that scale with buffed attack and health. If healing was nerfed to not scale, why not everything else? It doesn't make sense!

Zeke_the_Xbot

Nexus_UY_Scuti wrote: »

Integrity of the game, that's such a misnomer.

The game doesn't need integrity. It only needs two thing: 1) keep people playing, 2) make money.

Unless it threatens the above 2 factors, nothing is gonna change.

Which is exactly why we are not seeing alliance bases yet.

So Bases couldn't aid in 1) Keeping Players playing or 2) Give more reasons to add monetary means to the game. I highly doubt that at all. I like to think they put Bases in as a placeholder idea way back when and it got dropped just as quickly and never flushed out. And then the team got to caught up working on developing other areas of the game. Not that the feature wouldn't keep people playing or draw more profits.

Mcchitlen

They nerfed healing bc it was beneficial to us. They have massive damage over time bc it makes them money. Its all about the money. Kabam has made too much money to worry about its player base anymore. I wish people would band together an boycott again bc it seems to be the only way to get our points across

Tiemilios

Agreed @Mcchitlen ... Just want to hope that's not the case, but it's likely true. They certainly made changes we wanted when we boycotted.

Tiemilios

Mcchitlen wrote: »

They nerfed healing bc it was beneficial to us. They have massive damage over time bc it makes them money. Its all about the money. Kabam has made too much money to worry about its player base anymore. I wish people would band together an boycott again bc it seems to be the only way to get our points across

I actually disagree that they "nerfed healing bc it was beneficial to us". Even that was only used against us, mainly in AW when people used Wolverine's, Ultrons, and Iron Men as bosses. People often had to revive to take them down. So, even though healing caused people to spend more, they did reduce that.

Tiemilios

@Zeke_the_Xbot lol, I honestly have no idea what they intend to do with Bases. Like you, I think they added a placeholder to the game and then did War instead and focused on that.