nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Shift in Game Economics Post Ascension

ahmynuts

Not sure if this will be more of a question, observation looking for a response, or incoherent babble.

Before you ask, yes, the thoughts for this were kind of spurred on by the extended realm event milestones, but I was thinking about it even before this, as I was looking all around the game.

Since the beginning of this year, we've seen a few massive game economy shake-ups at the Macro level (which have been... interesting to say the least) with many aspects of the Micro level lagging far behind or out of sync with those shifts.

The biggest one by far has been 7* ascension, and what that has done to the crystal and champion economy that has run the game for over 11 years.

Since (honestly, even a bit before if you count that massive double crystal comp) the launch of ascension, we have seen a massive influx of a few historical economic staples begin to flood our accounts: Gold, Iso, champions, awakened abilities, signature levels, crystal shards, and max signature ability crystals.

Some of these are the result of others, but all have been becoming increasingly abundant.
This is very interesting because it is very new to this game. There has never been a time when we have had access to so many of these at the same time, especially for the highest star rarity for champions.

What I find most interesting about all of it is the shifting value of these resources and how that value compares to where they are placed in certain quantities around the game.
Having all of these in greater abundance obviously means they are no longer scarce, which means they no longer hold as much value as they did a few months ago, yet the game in many places is still treating these resources as if they are that valuable. Which is where that macro micro split I was talking about before is.

Acquiring, awakening, and signing up 7* champions has never been easier. We can get a massive amount of these from empowered crystals. The game seems not to have adjusted for this in the rewards department anywhere else, though. If you poke around the game, you'll see 7* crystals, crystal shards, or some variation of each placed in positions of high importance and value as if they deserve to hold that spot in the first place.

Most recently, the Metamorphosis event and the Alteration event have regular 7* crystals in the rewards (limited in pool sure, but still normal crystals that give base pool 7*s, which we are able to pull in abundance)
The Apex Coliseum has a bunch of shards and a few nexus crystals in it. Very odd considering many players this content is for get a hell of a lot of 7*s per month for free.
Elder eq gives us a small sum of 7* and titan shards, but those only amount to a couple of champions. Not a lot of value there (which the game seems to have recognized since they aren't one of the best scaling items in there)
The radiance store (don't get me started on this one. I can write a thesis on why this store is bad) values a 7* at 17500 radiance. That is a **** ton of radiance for how valuable a random base pool 7* is.
In the essentia store, a 7* is 6800 essentia. That is also a **** ton of essentia.

I'm focusing mainly on 7*s for this post, but if you look around the game at other weirdly valued items in comparison to the actual value they hold for our accounts right now. The main throughline for all of them is that we've gotten very, very large swings in the top-level game economy in very specific places, but close to nothing about where and what rewards are given out has been adjusted with those swings, which creates a very large disparity between what is worth it and what is not. This has knock-on effects to pretty much every item or piece of content in the game because it gets everyone scrutinizing everything in context to what is happening in the larger sense, versus what is being presented to us at a given time.

Why should the players care about the 7* rewards in the Apex Coliseum if we get so many 7*s? Collectives? Sure, but the sputtering of 7* shards and crystals given out don't match how fast we're getting them from empowered crystals. If they're stepping-stone rewards, that's fine, but they aren't really even suitable for those in their current quantities at their current value.

To Kabam's credit, they seem to have recognized this in the Metamorphosis event and actually gave us a lot of rank-up resources instead, which are far more valuable (to MOST players, not big whales, but if those were crystals, they would have equally no value to whales either) in the current game economy.

The economy is shifting toward rank-ups and ascension being the primary source of value now, but nowhere outside of this event has it reflected that at all. This disparity can be seen everywhere, especially with players motivation to do certain content (like battlegrounds) where the rewards just arent even close to matching the current game state.

I would specifically like to hear thoughts from @DNA3000 @Kabam Crashed @Kabam (Osaurus) Rex but would like anyone to respectfully chime in on their thoughts here. Except for Pexi. Kick rocks, bro.

Comments

peixemacaco

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/415444/shift-in-game-economics-post-ascension

Guardians clearly said to not tag Kabam staff anymore.

And you, even with a guardian saying to you, keep doing.

@pseudosane

More than this, all things you're saying was highly discussed.

So, dont think Kabam will do anything you're trying again to put a pressure on them.

Respect the staff.

Ascension, BG, Stellar piece on BG, anything you're asking, wont be changed right now, so this will remain as its now.

Kabam is doing the impossible to benefit us.

Just imagine keep a huge game as Marvel Contest of Champions, with many modes, many summoners levels, many different rewards.

Come on!

Stellar is the work they do!

Maybe on next stellar champions they decide to change the place to get the piece, but not for this one.

You can see how Kabam is clearly Top Fair with everyone, Drops is a headache for them, because people just dont know how to activate their accounts, or even to click to pick rewards.

But Kabam, compensate everytime.

Thanks Kabam 🥳

SirGamesBond

I feel the 7A directly impacted the basic 7* champion acquisition.

This event is another clear indication. It rewards A2 of limited pool champs. No matter what, without spending you can not access 6/6 A2 of these champs, and for how long we don't know.

A2 vs A1 vs 7*

Power creep disparity is on its peak. This effects three areas primarily. BG, AW and prestige. AW is not that big of a deal, but there's direct and big impact on BG and Prestige.

The New Rarity transition is already in place. But this time one cannot catch up for a very long time with the 7A's rank deference.

One cathup mechanic, Rank 6 of 7* champ, is yet to come. But I'm sure 7r6 will come along with 7A3 and 7A4.

But the abundance of sigs and ags is a nice welcome. I also don't mind that new released champs 7A are locked behind a massive massive paywall. A very very small number of players can access it. We all have to wait an year to get 7A1 or A2. It makes normal A2s and r5s stay relevant. But then again, the base pool of 7A is pretty sad at this moment.

I don't like that "ranking" Ascensions is pure rng. I'm not a fan of ascensions the moment.

There are too many of ifs and buts.

Disthene_T

I've felt this change. I'm a mild spender (a few times a year in limited amounts) and I have about 90% of the champs available as 7 stars. Most of who I'm missing are not in the basic pool. A good portion of the ones I have are awakened. The amount of Titan shards available per 3 month cycle is large enough that I'm getting pretty much everyone before they move to basic (Awakening too).

Ascension feels strange though. It isn't filling the same value feeling. If I ask myself "What is an 8% boost to the base stats of a champ I don't use much worth?", it isn't much.

By chance I got the Destroyer to A2. If I take him to R3, he's like a R4 defender. That's neat but he's not uniquely more powerful than other player's Destroyer until I take him to R5 and let him run around with base stats of a R6 7 Star. But is The Destroyer a good enough champ to R5? Maybe, but while R5 resources are scarce, champs I like to play will take priority.

Rank up materials feel like everything. Getting as wide a pool of R4s as I can is my main priority.

Bigurlshrooms

progression like this is normal in any game. Having some disparity in rewards is actually good and makes sense to help newer players and give them a sense of accomplishment.

Now as to the store I’ve mentioned it before and you’re correct. They really do have to update it. The store, loyalty, aq rewards, chap 7, mysterium doesn’t even include t4cc.

There’s a HUGE blind eye on resource spending in this game and other areas as listed that’s been neglected for years. Game feels incomplete because of it.

Herbal_Taxman

good summary OP. Heavy central bank intervention in the last 12 months. 30-prestige, ascension, flooding thr market with what used to be scarce assets. Feels like it’s all pointed toward collecting over fighting. And yes, I know it’s always been about both elements. But with so many champs and a limited pipeline (nonexistent?) of new content where we can use the champs, Kabam has pivoted to the sticker book model. “Just collect the champs because collecting is fun!” Don’t collect because they’re useful or you need them to do something in the game, just collect them because you’re in a circular roster arms race that’s largely determined by RNG unless you spend thousands per month to buy your way out of the “new economy.”

Jerichoharris

The collecting over competing point is spot on. It takes significantly less $$$ from a company investment perspective to set up a scenario where collecting champs is the main objective rather than creating new and interesting content.

The shift to collecting will be problematic if content continues to be ignored. Most of us don’t play to collect, we play to play.

BringPopcorn

You guys remember when people told them that the sales felt like an "all or nothing" situation where casual spending got you close to nothing?... They listened, started doing better events. Well this feels like a step back.

I was spending some of my units, opening crystals, reaching a few milestones, getting useless 6* rewards... Then I realized that after 10k units I had 3 new A1 champs... Oh yay...

Should I even spend 10 bucks on a sigil that I cancelled when they updated it for 1 more A1 7*... Nope I rather buy me an ice coffee right now

Buttehrs

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2956619#Comment_2956619

ODd, then why are you playing a game thats sole purpose is the collection of champs? You know, a gatcha game?

Jerichoharris

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2956642#Comment_2956642

Because up until now the collecting has always been secondary to the fighting content. If that is shifting, how far it shifts could have a profound impact on the future popularity of the game.

Buttehrs

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2956724#Comment_2956724

This game has always been first and foremost sold as a gacha collection type game. Maybe you havent been here since the beginning, but it has always been about collecting first.

Herbal_Taxman

wrong, but whatever. It’s hard for the forums to handle anything like nuance or relative difference.

The game began as a) get champs, b) do increasingly hard content, c) rank up and get more champs, d) do harder content, repeat ad infinitum.

The difference now is the balance between collecting and doing. Today, the content is slipping into a tertiary role. You don’t really need to do anything except buy champs.

ahmynuts

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2956724#Comment_2956724

I think that's a very interesting aspect of everything. Of course it's too early to say that's where everything is officially headed even though there are many things pointed in that direction: First Appearance, Collectives, the increase in champ acquisition via empowered crystals, etc.

It could just be an untapped area of the game kabam finally decided to lean into more. But it has caused alot to fall by the wayside at the same time.

One thing about specifically the Mcoc dev team I always thought is that they're always really damn good at doing kind of like one or two specific things at a time but when they try and expand that scope it's when things start to fall apart.

We can have months where it's one or two absolute banger things happening where it's obvious the most tlc was placed but then have a few months of eh or bad stuff because they're trying to do too much. See dimensional arcade, lny event, essentia rollout, etc.

That entire side tangent to say that i think rewards updates are very often the lunar new year or dimensional arcade of the entire game where sales and the occasional endgame content are what the bangers are.

Flavyjay

I have said this before rank up resources were not yet readily available before the explosive abundance of champions, every store feels outdated even the new essentials store only has T4a and T7B beyond that everything else there feels like it's not worth the value..... Then there's content problems lol I don't even want to talk too much it's not like they'll change anyways 😅 hard headed harder than rocks

DNA3000

A little late to the party, so I'll just focus on one thing, the thing I think you're post is primarily interested in: if I may paraphrase, the disparity between how the changes in the game as a whole has causes a lot of resources - rank up resources in particular - to be revalued and reassessed by players, and the fact that the reward channels for those resources haven't been updated to reflect those new values.

I think that's normal. Rarely does the game change in a way that alters players' perceptions - objective or otherwise - of the value of a resource and simultaneously adjust how that resource is handed out in the game. Supply tends to follow demand, sometimes quite a bit behind. Some of that is practical limitations, and some of that is deliberate by design.

Practically speaking, it can be very difficult to anticipate how players will respond to changing game conditions. Sometimes they burn resources in certain ways, sometimes they don't. Imbalances are often difficult to predict because they aren't a static consequence of the game economy, they are also the result of players actions. Remember the days when players complained about lacking T1 alpha and when they were told they could just buy T1A with glory the response was often "I'm not going to spend my precious glory on something small like that, I need to save it for the important stuff." And in the process self nerf their rank up capabilities. That's an extreme example, but players do this sort of thing on micro scales all the time. They aren't robotic economy calculators. Balancing game economies in that sort of environment is difficult.

But there's also, at least in my opinion, a certain deliberate by design element to allowing supply to follow demand. This game would not exist if there didn't exist players willing to spend money on it. And players don't spend on what they can easily get. They spend on what is hard to get, where supply is constrained. MCOC doesn't permanently paywall much, so most of the time scarcity is temporary. Players will only spend on a scarcity for a limited amount of time, because scarcities literally don't last for long in this game. So every time the game creates a demand for something, the fact that supply lags behind that demand by several months creates that scarcity gap that the game can monetize, and that most F2P players won't notice for too long.

Demand shifts. Kabam monitors that demand and what players do to try to react to it. Spenders try to erase that scarcity with spending. The data tells Kabam what the gap between spenders and non-spenders is. They adjust the game economy to lower that gap, after the spenders have had some time to play with their toys. And then the cycle repeats.

For the record, this is my own take on what's happening here, and it is, like all economic discussions, extremely oversimplified. I of course cannot speak for the economy team here, but I would say my opinion is an informed, if completely unofficial one.

TL;DR: Kabam tends to make supply changes based on data-driven processes when demand changes. These data processes take time. That time window not coincidentally creates monetization opportunities in a game that actually has few such opportunities that are permanent in nature, so the process is self-reinforcing.

SirGamesBond

There's one more thing with these

"New rarity" "not 8*" "not 7*" but 7*A

If this was a new rarity '8*' we would get a 7r4+ relevant stats, which is not the case with 7A. We have to invest resources to take them up to r4 to 'enjoy' the power of pseudo new rarity 'r47a1' but then we won't be able to sig 200 them.

IFs and Buts. Positive and negetives.

BigPoppaCBONE

We're getting Titan shards and rank up stuff hand over fist now, but new champs are tuned for Ascension. So I feel like, unless they've got an OP ability set, why bother if I can't Ascend them? Might as well keep saving.

Resources that were once precious and hard to come by are getting stockpiled. I can't be the only one with a ton of rank up stuff, sig stones, and awakening gems. It has to be the perfect storm of early access luck and a kit/playstyle I enjoy to use resources. A new champ like M'baku is so tragically weak even his very few pieces of showcase content are sad. The YouTubers can't even fake enthusiasm for him long enough to get through a Short.

Godslayer_1

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2956597#Comment_2956597

What are you even talking about? No one's even discussing stellar piece or Twitch drops. At least bother to read the post before commenting (maybe have your AI explain it in simple terms)

ItsClobberinTime

The radiance store has to be the one that’s suffering the most currently, it’s unfortunate that there still hasn’t been an update and who knows how long until we get one. I can’t believe r4s are officially the new r3s yet r3 materials are still so stupidly expensive, and don’t even get me started on the value for some other things such as Titans or the fact that they haven’t added any empowered crystals there yet. For the last one, I’d assume they’re saving that spot for the actual ascension crystals and featured ascension crystals whenever those actually come out but at this rate all that seems just so far away.