15.0 Alliance Wars Update Discussion Thread

Summoners!

Our 15.0 Update is just about a week away, and with it, it's bringing a huge change to Alliance Wars! Check out everything you need to know about the Brand New Map, Scoring Changes, and new boosts in the Loyalty Store here: http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/17902/15-0-alliance-wars-update/

Comments

1nfinity24

The bottom line is, removing points for defense kills takes away any penalty for death. So, either you 100% the map using "skill" and lose by defender diversity or defender rating, or 100% the map by spending and lose by defender diversity or defender rating Either way, the problem with this scenario is, spending to 100% and placing all unique high pi champs will win every time. It takes all the skill out of the game in that scenario. He with the most pots and highest pi champs wins.

You can't simply say, get good, learn how to play. That may work if the alliance you are against has a lower defender rating. If not though, and they chose to revive to victory, your skill isn't good for anything.

KingCrooks

Throw in some global nodes too while you're at it. Why not....

sbb75

This is basic math and nobody and Kabam can understand it? Are any of us expected to believe the numbers with % chances on sigs and stacking when you cant add and subtract. How is this possible?
Does anyone at kabam ever get embarrassed by this stuff? Any pride in the work and product?

vikky89

1nfinity24 wrote: »

The bottom line is, removing points for defense kills takes away any penalty for death. So, either you 100% the map using "skill" and lose by defender diversity or defender rating, or 100% the map by spending and lose by defender diversity or defender rating Either way, the problem with this scenario is, spending to 100% and placing all unique high pi champs will win every time. It takes all the skill out of the game in that scenario. He with the most pots and highest pi champs wins.

You can't simply say, get good, learn how to play. That may work if the alliance you are against has a lower defender rating. If not though, and they chose to revive to victory, your skill isn't good for anything.

On top of that force close doesnt reduce health anymore. You can just redo the fight with full health. Unlimited tries seriously. Even story regular event quest have penalty for force close

Cma1323

Perhaps there is something I am missing so if I am someone please help me out, but how does lowering the attacker kill score from 150pts to 50pts really help? If an alliance didn't place a defense the attacking defense had no kills and thus no points. So in reality the points could be 1000, 150, or 50 but if no defense is set no kill points can be rewarded. And The zero sum defense is still best idea and AW is still broken.

Ponyboy

Also about challenger rating. This kinda fits in this topic. Example was just use 3* hulks, same diversity points as 5*. Challenger rating blows on 3 and 4*s. Wipe that rating out.

I like the diversity aspect. But keep it in BGs. I'm not fighting the other 2 BG defenders

King_turd123

Honestly there are some things I like in the new map, problem is it's like I made a bowl of cereal, said this is a little boring now, so kabam put some fruit in. Hey, ok.
Then kabam dumps no less than 2 gallons of gravy on it, yeah you can still eat it, but do you want to?

unknown

This content has been removed.

King_turd123

Thanks for the feedback? You're more than welcome, expect a bunch more.
To be as constructive as I can possibly be, in all honesty, it is imperative to listen to the feedback in order for it to reach maximum effectiveness.

Changing the scoring is only the players solving a math problem for you, that has nothing to do with recieving and listening to feedback.

NMEONES

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Hey All,

Thank you for all your feedback on the first week of Alliance Wars. We've written an update on what you can expect when you start Matchmaking again tomorrow here: http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/127553/#Comment_127553

@Kabam Miike this is still absolute trash man. You guys destroyed the best part of the game. You basically created Alliance Quest Wars and did away with the actual AW. Alliance War should not be a map of the most diverse champs you can place. You took away every bit of skill involved in Alliance Wars when you did away with defender kills. I'm truly disgusted by your actions here. Its called War for a reason... you don't send the most diverse team to war, you send you best and deadliest. I honestly was hoping that you guys would come to realize the error of your ways and revert back to the old scoring system, but i see that's not in the cards for you guys. Congrats on making AW complete rubbish. I refuse to spend another unit in AW while the scoring system is set up like this... And where are the rank down tickets? How are you going to just completely change the way AW is fought and then just expect everyone to place diverse defenders when we already have our top defenders ranked up.. idk why I always give you guys the benefit of the doubt, but it ends here. Thanks once again.

NinjAlan

This is one of the few instances it's clear they are simply not listening to the feedback. Great post Morgan

Amonthir

Can you at least dump all the upcoming 5* champs into pool ahead of schedule so we can try for more diversity sooner?

Kpatrix

When you say diversity will be global across the alliance and not as is currently local to bg, and you are working on that, does that mean next round of aq will be same as last round and in 15.1 you will adjust the code, or will it be a hot fix ready by 9/13/17 ?

MagicBenton

Kpatrix wrote: »

When you say diversity will be global across the alliance and not as is currently local to bg, and you are working on that, does that mean next round of aq will be same as last round and in 15.1 you will adjust the code, or will it be a hot fix ready by 9/13/17 ?

@Kabam Miike please answer this before next AW round starts, it makes a huge difference. "Fixed as soon as we can" is pretty damn vague. Do we assume it's not fixed until you let us know?

JJW

I am not sure if these posts are being read or not, but I have looked over the new change and this is the new paradigm:

100% Boss Kill & Explore. --> required
Maximize Diversity - 102 (for now) to 106 (if you have them) --> required
Pad out the remaining 48 to 44 champions with High PI --> required

All Defenders must be as high pi as possible <--- DEFENDER RATING just became the most important element in AW.

This is important to recognize, and I'll explain why.

As of now, two equal alliances, let's say 6m will 100% the map and take all bosses.
They will also begin to maximize diversity.

Since the Placement and Defense points (50) now match, every possible combination of champion deployments from 106 to 150 will result in TIE.

ALLIANCE WIN in that case will be decided exclusively by which Alliance fielded the largest team rating. So, 5star rank 4s and 4star 5/50s, etc.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////

Strategic Placement does not matter - AT ALL
Defense Variety does not matter - AT ALL - once maximum diversity is achieved.

The only thing that matters now is which team is bigger.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////

This is not war.
This is not strategic.
And this is not particularly fun.

Feel free to skip over my post because Kabam seems pretty good at disregarding the input of the players.

DD2

The whole point of this game was to take your strongest (and hard earned) champs with your teammates and wage war against other alliances. It was fun. Grinding for champs and ranking them up was insanely time consuming and even expensive but it had a payoff. Your investment meant you'd increase your chances of winning because of your effective champions.

Now with defender diversity and no defender kills it's all meaningless. The whole point of this game is rank up as many useless champs for the sake of winning in war, not because they're actually good defenders.

LocoMotives

Regarding diversity points from Miike's original announcement about war changes:

"The scoring system will not award large amounts of points, and will act more as a tiebreaker than a game changer."

Welp, guess that didn't work out. Math getting in the way again...

Hulk_77

I don't know what to say other than going to alliance wide diversity is completely unacceptable. In the upper tiers everyone is 100%ing every map. The outcomes are essentially locked in from the first second of the war. Terrible.

You need to have defender kills in the equation or it is pointless and boring.

Bullybreed

What are you guys doing to war?? Ahhhh. This was the best part of the game imo and now it's getting ridiculous...all you guys had to do to fix the issue of diversity is make it so that if a summoner does NOT place all 5 defenders in war then that summoner can NOT participate on offense...problem solved.
Also, diversity points are not going to make me want to buy or grind for new champs like I used to want to do for certain champs because of the ability to score defense kill points or simply shut down certain paths...u guys are catering to the whiny no skilled summoners who constantly complain about nc, magic, etc...i used to love running into 5 ncs on stun immune path because it was easy for me, yet the opponent would turn into a grave yard on this path..its not my problem they suck....fix it kabam!

Bullybreed

War should be based on strategy and skill like everyone is saying..bring back the old scoring system, make summoners place 5 defenders or they can NOT participate on offense, and do NOT allow duplicate champs per bg (1 nc, magic, mordo, etc. Per bg = 3 each per war) this I believe woild.make most happy. I woud.be..

Lil_Ramsic

I understand the need for diversity, but when everyone has spent months or years even building their rosters with champs like NC being used for the sole purpose of Alliance War and nothing else what are we supposed to do? Do we diversify and put in 4/40 Ant-Man or Kamala Khan because no-one has them ranked higher? Or continue to place multiple 5/50 NC's to get the defender rating up. This is not a fix, we should be granted 5 4* rank down tickets and 2 5* rank down tickets because we all now need to adjust our defense and a lot of champions are going to be collecting dust, we should at least have 5 rank down tickets to rank down the 5 defenders we have in war that will help us all diversify and play the game you want it to be played, even if we don't agree. Meet us half way here.

MagicBenton

You guys have ruined the best part of the game. You have essentially changed the scoring so that bringing a 2* stark spidey is more important to the alliance than bringing a 2nd r4 5* Dormammu. I don't understand what you are doing but if you don't fix it you're going to lose a LOT of people very quickly. AW was literally the only aspect of this game that was still fun for most vets and you've managed to completely destroy that. Well done Kabam, well done.

Dr_ARCHer

Wanted: Any player with Thanos.

P.S. Players with Kang or Ultron Classic need not apply (unless it is to an alliance where no one has either).

UC439

Rank down tickets should be issued to create defender diversity. I've no unique defenders from my bg mates. I put all my effort to build a strong defense team. Now they're becoming useless, as I can't put mine in place of a higher level of a same character of my bg mate. I need to bring different champions up. So if u plan to keep defender diversity, do issue rank down tickets to reorganise our rosters.

DD2

Diversity has no business being mentioned in competition.

You're either good or you're not! Who cares how different you are.

Bring the best, drop the rest. That's how competition works.

Fabi

Wow this is so Bad....You destroy this Game with every Update more and more...

rwhack

@Kabam Miike

The reason you had to put in diversity is roughly half the champs you out out are just terrible. Instead of making us rank up terrible champs with limited resources why was no consideration given to making heroes useful?

I'm close to my quitting point over this. It takes forever to get enough t4b and t1a to rank people up now that we need diversity and meanwhile I have 20 unopened t4c crystals and 350 t4c shard crystals. The storage limits were about right a year and a half ago. The t4b and t1a should be coming in at twice the rate they are.

The consistent trend has been terrible rewards and poorly beta tested releases. The recent AW could have been trouble shot before a war began by an above average player.

Every single move your company does takes little into account. You want diversity? Well three things need to happen:

1. t4b need to accumulate at at least twice the rate. t4b arena should give 2 etc.
2. t1a...at least twice the rate.
3. storage catalyst capacity needs to go up

Seems obvious the reason you want diversity is to limit good offensive choices and excuse the developers from releasing a hero every other time who is just bad. Making the game less fun because we have to use bad heroes is not s good plan. I really want to thank the guys who.came up with:

SheHulk
Karmala Khan
Old Man Logan
Carnage
Phoenix
Iron Patriot
War Machine
2 Cyclops
2 capt marvel
Loki
Gambit
2 magneto
Howard the Duck
Joe Fixit
82 spiderman
Groot
Netflix DD
Nebula

Because of you we apparently need diversity because people don't want to rank up your champs. Because of how useless 4 star champs are and how slow 5 stars come I don't want to rank up any of them...I suppose the game will be a lot more fun ranking up heroes I can't and don't want to use...thats brilliant. Everyone loves drinking rotten milk instead of say eating candy?

I really think you need to partner with and pay attention to some people in the community. The ideas only seem to get worse

rwhack

JJW wrote: »

I am not sure if these posts are being read or not, but I have looked over the new change and this is the new paradigm:

100% Boss Kill & Explore. --> required
Maximize Diversity - 102 (for now) to 106 (if you have them) --> required
Pad out the remaining 48 to 44 champions with High PI --> required

All Defenders must be as high pi as possible <--- DEFENDER RATING just became the most important element in AW.

This is important to recognize, and I'll explain why.

As of now, two equal alliances, let's say 6m will 100% the map and take all bosses.
They will also begin to maximize diversity.

Since the Placement and Defense points (50) now match, every possible combination of champion deployments from 106 to 150 will result in TIE.

ALLIANCE WIN in that case will be decided exclusively by which Alliance fielded the largest team rating. So, 5star rank 4s and 4star 5/50s, etc.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////

Strategic Placement does not matter - AT ALL
Defense Variety does not matter - AT ALL - once maximum diversity is achieved.

The only thing that matters now is which team is bigger.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////

This is not war.
This is not strategic.
And this is not particularly fun.

Feel free to skip over my post because Kabam seems pretty good at disregarding the input of the players.

Hammer hit the nail real hard. Apparently all available research says making something less fun increases affinity for the game

Markjv81

Maybe you should introduce attacker diversity, why is it ok to have attack teams full of voodoo, Gwenpool, AA, tech spidey and any of the other top 10-15 attackers but it's not ok to have defences full of magik, dorm, Hyperion, NC etc etc?

Diversity across an entire alliance is madness, instantly gives the maybe 20-30 alliances that have Thanos an advantage over everyone else.

rozeros

I think just becouse of the group of people that have no clue how to play the game and counter some champions (magik, juggs) we are seeing stupid, unthoughtful changes that are affecting us all. Working our butts of to build a formidable def, changed to placing JUST one of the afromentioned heroes will give us (or might not) the win. What else uve got in plan? If no skilled players will start mouning "nerf magik coz on debuff immune noed shes to hard to kill" youll do as they want? Its really taking away the fun, and the skill gap is being shortened... well now there is no skill gap coz even facing a -3mln less rating ally we can lose becouse of stupid scoring system..less and less intrested in the game