15.0 Alliance Wars Update Discussion Thread

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  • YSBYSB Posts: 169
    edited September 2017
    I think I'm just going to suggest to my alliance we place all 2*, say screw war and just collect the loser rewards. At least then we can use our best champs in quests. Locking up 8 of our best champs for 6 days a week just to lose to someone because they bring Kamala Khan to war defense is stupid. Or making sure we have all 107 characters represented just to win is also stupid. It's just not fun. And I've talked to a LOT of people about this. I have yet to find anyone who says they like the changes. Not 1. Bring back defender kills, or at a minimum quit locking up our defenders from other areas of the game. If they are going to be used in a worthless war that isn't fun, at least let us use them elsewhere on parts of the game we still enjoy.
  • Cma1323Cma1323 Posts: 34
    Has anyone seen a tie in war? What would happen if it did? What if every alliance decided to participate in war but set no defense and in attack phases got 100% exploration. No points for defense rating, no points for attacker kills, no points for diversity. So the only points that could be achieved is for beating boss and exploration correct? And if each alliance got 100% a tie would happen. I am not suggesting every alliance place zero defense but just curious what would happen if every alliance did for war. Do you think kabam/netmarble would be much quicker to resolve the war situation and listen to their players that put money in their pockets?
  • Marine31_Marine31_ Posts: 61
    edited September 2017
    Honestly you guys need to bring back rank down tickets most of us have ranked up our champs based on how good they would be as Defenders and now we can't even use them and now we can't even use them due to Defender diversity it's really not fair to everyone who has poured money time and resources into specific characters only to get them ripped away from us because now if we double them up we won't get points another well-thought-out plan way to go.
  • Cma1323 wrote: »
    Has anyone seen a tie in war? What would happen if it did? What if every alliance decided to participate in war but set no defense and in attack phases got 100% exploration. No points for defense rating, no points for attacker kills, no points for diversity. So the only points that could be achieved is for beating boss and exploration correct? And if each alliance got 100% a tie would happen. I am not suggesting every alliance place zero defense but just curious what would happen if every alliance did for war. Do you think kabam/netmarble would be much quicker to resolve the war situation and listen to their players that put money in their pockets?

    both teams lose if there is a tie
  • Revert it for the love of god. Diversity is beyond stupid and your punishing people for ranking up champs in your old system.i want rdt if this system stays period. It should not. This is worse then 12.0 imo because now everyone's favorite mode in game is worthless and boring. Not only that but my work for a solid defense destroyed rewards not greater then before. More time in game moving. This game is getting more stale everyday and the idiots running it have no clue what's going on. the whole new wars need to be scraped and left alone until you can actually put something out that isn't complete garbage.

    Solution: everyone hates mystic wars so easy solution update the rewards for each tier. Until you can decide the new map and nodes. It's that simple if I get better rewards I will work harder.
  • Kabam Mike, You said this...
    The amount of items that any user can use remains the same, so every Alliance Member can still only Revive/Heal 15 times. This hasn't changed. Additionally, 5 Minibosses doesn't mean that any one person will be taking on more than 1.

    The goal with the removal of Defender kills wasn't to increase the use of Potions or Revives, but to relieve the feeling of defeat that comes with taking one shot at a defender, losing, and feeling that you're now helping the other Alliance, so you stop playing, even though you have 2 perfectly good attackers still there.

    Nobody stops playing after dying or losing to a defender because the player has to clear their path to usually free up another memeber of their team. However, by taking away defender kills point, along with the new scoring for 50k per attacker kills, you have effectively turn Alliance War to Roster battle. We all know that the team with the highest rating will typically have the best roster. So with everything being equal, Boss kill = 60k, Exploration = 90k, defender placed = 7,500, Attacker kills = 7,500. Your tie breakers then comes to defender ratings and defender diversity. This is great if the teams that are facing each other are at equal strength but since the alliance matching is random and rarely are the teams are at equal strength this gives the higher rated alliance a significant advantage with little or no way for the lower rated alliance can counter it. The difference maker and what makes Alliance War fun was knowing that a lower rated alliance can still win by limiting their DKs, especially if the higher rated alliance are just a bunch of guys with little of no skills. There has to be something in favor of the underdog that is outside the game that gives them a chance. You guys put favorites and underdogs in the game by your +/- you display when ppl match. You guys like to mention, the spirit of the game, what about the underdogs. What chance are you giving them when your alliance match sets them up to fail.

    I believe your issue may be that you don't have another slots to include Defender Kills as part of the point systems. Please create and add defender kills with 100poits per DKs and keep all the other scoring the same.

    If you don't, you are now creating an atmosphere that is going to further encourage Alliance swapping.

  • Speeds80Speeds80 Posts: 1,234 ★★★
    it's got to the point where most of my alliance can't be bothered with war, the feeling of losing and reviving even though it costs points was a lot better than the feeling of losing because you had a less diverse team or because the other team place less defenders, it's just a joke, leave diversity but bring back defender kills that will give us a chance to go with a strong defense or a diverse defense as both viable options. I know what my alliance would prefer to place
  • YSBYSB Posts: 169
    War should be skill based. New map, old scoring, not allowed to use potions. No linking boosts for defenders. Skill based. Most skilled alliances win.
  • kraioszerokraioszero Posts: 113
    So No Defender Points, But Defender Diversity Points. What Is That exactly?...

    How can you ask for each alliance member to bring 5 defenders that are different each to any others brought by any other alliance member?, and even not just into the group, but the entire alliance?

    Your characters diversity is not even that big for players to have 150 different characters in an alliance.

    Your characters diversity probabilities is not fair at all (I even had 3* quake 50 times)

    Most of the time the rooster we get from cristals is narrowed to the same group of characters with just a few exceptions once per every four months if so

    Characters are RANDOM, we can not select what we get, even when we get a special one (cybernetic for example) to open we are not completely sure what to expect, except for the calendar one, HOW DO YOU EXPECT for US to get Diversity?
    Players use the heroes the game gives them, not the ones they want.

    It is not fair for a player not to pick up a hero/villain just because there is another alliance member that already has it when even having the same hero/villain is not intended at all as already stated.

  • KpatrixKpatrix Posts: 942 ★★★
    The first three wars we played under this system weren't that bad or boring, we were tier 3 and moved up to tier 2, winning all 3 without doing much changing as far as defenders were concerned. We are trying to implement some diversity now, that's just strategy. I guess we were fortunate not to face any alliances taking advantage of the scoring system and fought against full defenses each war. None of them ended up as 100% clears for either team, and item use was minimal.

    We actually had a couple of exciting finishes. It didn't really seem like we were fighting any different champs than before, just that the nodes were easier. Still had 4/55 magiks, Dormammu, or Spidey as bosses and the usual minibosses as well.

    I don't mind the diversity, I just wish it was per bg instead of globally across the alliance. Maybe doing that would be a middle ground on this new format. It's still a chess game, alliances who were getting 100% before are still doing it now, those who weren't, aren't. The point system still has some kinks in it that need to be looked at, and maybe revert back to the old system where participation rewards were equal to victory rewards, so losing still gives out a decent amount of shards, and winning gives out double.

    It's just time to adjust to a new meta, and once the kinks are worked out I think it will be fine for everyone. I do think that anyone who lost due to the opponent manipulating the math should get full rewards and have points put back in their rating though, that was well predicted and kabam didn't listen and basically let people get screwed. That's plain ****.

    When wars are played as intended, with your strongest yet most diverse defenders used, it's refreshing. No more stress worrying someone gets kod on a node needed to unlink someone else, causing a cascade effect. The energy could be adjusted so it flows better and there isn't so much down time, and think about adding some rewards for skill, give bonus rewards for more defensive ko's or something without changing the original intent of making people feel penalized for reviving. With all the bugs there were lots of times the game would crash and cost you the war anyway.
  • StrategicStrategic Posts: 446 ★★
    So you're gonna change it so that we now need 150 different defenders across all BGs?
    Have you slipped on your own stupidity and fell down the stairs head first?
    There are not even 150 different champs in the entire game!
    I get a feeling this is going to be 12.0 all over again.
  • Draco2199Draco2199 Posts: 803 ★★★
    Can we get an official response from Kabam on the following:

    1. Top alliances manipulating War matching
    2. How any other alliance can beat any of the top 15 now with Diversity points?

    Max diversity is 150 currently you can't max diversity due to number of champs. Only 20 people have Thanos (mostly people in top 5) so if matched up against a top alliance their deaths don't matter so they can spend to complete.

    They have higher Defender rating because they've gotten most of the T4Cs in the game and spend the most, plus will have higher diversity rating.

    SO IF MATCHED UP AGAINST THEM THERE IS 0% CHANCE TO WIN. Thats a big fat ZERO. It cant be done. At least before with skill you could potentially upset them. Now since they don't play each other ever and only match with lower alliances they won't ever lose.

    SO PLEASE KABAM GIVE US AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT ON THE FOLLOWING LOOPHOLES THAT YOU ARE ALLOWING.

    Thanks!
  • No matter what way you look at it defender diversity is a stupid concept. You cant force diversity when champs are not designed equal. When almost every ally can do 100% with useless champs on defense, wars are decided even before they start. It hugely favors ally who can buy newest champs or rare ones, or ally with higher rating. 0 skill in AW. Why cant they just give us auto fight feature.
  • GrubGrub Posts: 116
    Draco2199 wrote: »
    What is going to be done from the Top 20 alliances manipulating war opponents? Seriously this is a huge issue, they constantly get to fight weaker opponents. How is this fair? How has nothing been done about this and Kabam doesn't even address it? Now with diversity you basically guaranteed their winning streak. The 100% every map, they also have 20 guys that most likely have every character in the game. You basically said Top teams can fight weaker people and get automatic wins from diversity. Can someone explain how this is fair? At least before you had a chance to beat them if you were skilled. Now you just lose and they never fight any alliance that is comparable to them. Not cool.

    Ummmm NO!!! These changes actually get rid of the need for alliances to avoid each other in war. The maps are easier/defender kills do not count and it becomes more a chess match for placing defenders. I already know for a fact some of the top alliances are more concerned with fitting in 3 wars per set then avoiding anyone even MMX. This new system has actually helped address the problem of which your referring to.
  • GrubGrub Posts: 116
    Draco2199 wrote: »
    Can we get an official response from Kabam on the following:

    1. Top alliances manipulating War matching
    2. How any other alliance can beat any of the top 15 now with Diversity points?

    Max diversity is 150 currently you can't max diversity due to number of champs. Only 20 people have Thanos (mostly people in top 5) so if matched up against a top alliance their deaths don't matter so they can spend to complete.

    They have higher Defender rating because they've gotten most of the T4Cs in the game and spend the most, plus will have higher diversity rating.

    SO IF MATCHED UP AGAINST THEM THERE IS 0% CHANCE TO WIN. Thats a big fat ZERO. It cant be done. At least before with skill you could potentially upset them. Now since they don't play each other ever and only match with lower alliances they won't ever lose.

    SO PLEASE KABAM GIVE US AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT ON THE FOLLOWING LOOPHOLES THAT YOU ARE ALLOWING.

    Thanks!

    So wait wait.......let me stop laughing before I respond. Those who spent the most money and worked harder gained more rewards and ranked up there champions with said rewards now have a clear advantage over those who did not. So what planet do you live on cause I live on earth and those who work harder gaining resources and spending money always have and always will have a distinct advantage over those who do not. If you don't like it go play a non competitive game like candy crush.
  • Draco2199Draco2199 Posts: 803 ★★★
    Grub wrote: »
    Draco2199 wrote: »
    Can we get an official response from Kabam on the following:

    1. Top alliances manipulating War matching
    2. How any other alliance can beat any of the top 15 now with Diversity points?

    Max diversity is 150 currently you can't max diversity due to number of champs. Only 20 people have Thanos (mostly people in top 5) so if matched up against a top alliance their deaths don't matter so they can spend to complete.

    They have higher Defender rating because they've gotten most of the T4Cs in the game and spend the most, plus will have higher diversity rating.

    SO IF MATCHED UP AGAINST THEM THERE IS 0% CHANCE TO WIN. Thats a big fat ZERO. It cant be done. At least before with skill you could potentially upset them. Now since they don't play each other ever and only match with lower alliances they won't ever lose.

    SO PLEASE KABAM GIVE US AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT ON THE FOLLOWING LOOPHOLES THAT YOU ARE ALLOWING.

    Thanks!

    So wait wait.......let me stop laughing before I respond. Those who spent the most money and worked harder gained more rewards and ranked up there champions with said rewards now have a clear advantage over those who did not. So what planet do you live on cause I live on earth and those who work harder gaining resources and spending money always have and always will have a distinct advantage over those who do not. If you don't like it go play a non competitive game like candy crush.

    So they should always win and not have to have any skill? I'm guessing you always got a trophy when playing sports then.

    The point is there is no way to win based off skill. I live on earth where a more skill hunter eats more. How is it competitive if you don't need skill to win?

    That was the sound of a mic dropping....
  • Speeds80Speeds80 Posts: 1,234 ★★★
    There is no chess match mate, all those alliances are walking through 100%, the chess match was old format when defender kills actually mattered
  • Grub wrote: »
    Draco2199 wrote: »
    Can we get an official response from Kabam on the following:

    1. Top alliances manipulating War matching
    2. How any other alliance can beat any of the top 15 now with Diversity points?

    Max diversity is 150 currently you can't max diversity due to number of champs. Only 20 people have Thanos (mostly people in top 5) so if matched up against a top alliance their deaths don't matter so they can spend to complete.

    They have higher Defender rating because they've gotten most of the T4Cs in the game and spend the most, plus will have higher diversity rating.

    SO IF MATCHED UP AGAINST THEM THERE IS 0% CHANCE TO WIN. Thats a big fat ZERO. It cant be done. At least before with skill you could potentially upset them. Now since they don't play each other ever and only match with lower alliances they won't ever lose.

    SO PLEASE KABAM GIVE US AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT ON THE FOLLOWING LOOPHOLES THAT YOU ARE ALLOWING.

    Thanks!

    So wait wait.......let me stop laughing before I respond. Those who spent the most money and worked harder gained more rewards and ranked up there champions with said rewards now have a clear advantage over those who did not. So what planet do you live on cause I live on earth and those who work harder gaining resources and spending money always have and always will have a distinct advantage over those who do not. If you don't like it go play a non competitive game like candy crush.

    So wait wait... let me stop laughing before i respond. So are you seriously saying those who spent money or grinded for new champs should have advantage in war ?? what planet are you living in bud. They already got their advantage by getting new champs that they paid for or worked hard for. Rest of us have to be satisfied with what RNG gives us. Why do they even get to have advantage in war where it is supposed be skill based not cash based ?? And tell me again how is it competitive when AW hugely favors spending for new champs. Call it competitive when both of us get to face crawlers or mordos and see who can take them down without giving away kills.
  • Draco2199 wrote: »
    Grub wrote: »
    Draco2199 wrote: »
    Can we get an official response from Kabam on the following:

    1. Top alliances manipulating War matching
    2. How any other alliance can beat any of the top 15 now with Diversity points?

    Max diversity is 150 currently you can't max diversity due to number of champs. Only 20 people have Thanos (mostly people in top 5) so if matched up against a top alliance their deaths don't matter so they can spend to complete.

    They have higher Defender rating because they've gotten most of the T4Cs in the game and spend the most, plus will have higher diversity rating.

    SO IF MATCHED UP AGAINST THEM THERE IS 0% CHANCE TO WIN. Thats a big fat ZERO. It cant be done. At least before with skill you could potentially upset them. Now since they don't play each other ever and only match with lower alliances they won't ever lose.

    SO PLEASE KABAM GIVE US AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT ON THE FOLLOWING LOOPHOLES THAT YOU ARE ALLOWING.

    Thanks!

    So wait wait.......let me stop laughing before I respond. Those who spent the most money and worked harder gained more rewards and ranked up there champions with said rewards now have a clear advantage over those who did not. So what planet do you live on cause I live on earth and those who work harder gaining resources and spending money always have and always will have a distinct advantage over those who do not. If you don't like it go play a non competitive game like candy crush.

    So they should always win and not have to have any skill? I'm guessing you always got a trophy when playing sports then.

    The point is there is no way to win based off skill. I live on earth where a more skill hunter eats more. How is it competitive if you don't need skill to win?

    That was the sound of a mic dropping....

    So he is basically saying just because he could buy the best gear possible he should win a all the trophies no matter what. War should be competitive and based on skill, just having stark spidey doc oc GG shouldn't guarantee u a win in war.
  • GrubGrub Posts: 116
    Actually having the best champs should guarantee you have a much higher probability of winning a war. Also apparently my opinion is the more accurate one cause Kabam seems to agree. Mic drop

    Also to the guy with his lame analogy about hunting. The more skilled hunter doesn't always eat more. The guy with automatic rifle always eats more then the primitive hunter with the spear. Welcome to reality and something called life.
  • Ooh, he dropped the mic!
  • I have a situation that may not have been brought up yet (can't be sure). With "diversity" being so important now, players at high levels will invariably rank up champs with no other in-game use purely to have a 3/45 spider Gwen or LC on defense. Players also change allies fairly regularly, so let's say Player A goes to a new ally where Player B has a 3/45 spider Gwen or LC that is a higher level. The champ is no good for defense anymore and the cats that Player A used to rank that champ have been wasted because one other person in the ally had the same motivation.

    Now you can say us ranking is our own choice and we shouldn't rank said champion, but wars will be decided purely on diversity/rating in higher tiers. Having a 3/45 LC (and a few others) vs having a 2/35 will be the difference in some wars between winning and losing.

    So any player wanting to play at tier 1 will need to rank oddball champs or his/her defense will be worthless to the ally. This also puts a premium on players with unavailable champs. You're asking us to throw away the catalysts that we grind for into bad defenders and disregard the ones we already wasted on good defenders in the name of "diversity". We NEED defender kills and attacker kills to be restored. Keep diversity, but have the game make sense again. Please?

    The rank doesn't matter, the nodes are too easy to beat. No more full immunity, not so many stun immune nodes, to be honest at high lvl war players play so well it doesn't matter whether the pi is 10k or 4k.

    The war is messed up, I don't think anyone there thought it trough.
  • Draco2199Draco2199 Posts: 803 ★★★
    Grub wrote: »
    Actually having the best champs should guarantee you have a much higher probability of winning a war. Also apparently my opinion is the more accurate one cause Kabam seems to agree. Mic drop

    Also to the guy with his lame analogy about hunting. The more skilled hunter doesn't always eat more. The guy with automatic rifle always eats more then the primitive hunter with the spear. Welcome to reality and something called life.

    You could drop the mic if it made sense but there is no probability. Its 100% win no matter what. Its bad enough they were too afraid to match each other lol. I'm guessing you are one of the ones hiding lol. It's okay not everyone can be skilled.
  • DJSergyDJSergy Posts: 165 ★★
    @FPC3 been thinking abou it for a while. How does Kabam thinks this new AW system is a good idea? And why they don't listen to their player base fedback?

    AW is now dead. Boring.... plain and simple, not fun at all. After all, this is a game and should be designed for players to have FUN.
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