15.0 Alliance Wars Update Discussion Thread

Summoners!

Our 15.0 Update is just about a week away, and with it, it's bringing a huge change to Alliance Wars! Check out everything you need to know about the Brand New Map, Scoring Changes, and new boosts in the Loyalty Store here: http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/17902/15-0-alliance-wars-update/

Comments

GroundedWisdom

I'm happy to see that things are being looked at. I think it's possible to make some adjustments. I don't think a total revert is feasible, or prudent. There were still a number of issues with the old system. I think the idea is not entirely a bad one. It may need some reconsideration for the math aspect and the possible scenarios. I just feel that the core of the changes needs to be retained.

Markjv81

RagamugginGunner wrote: »

The scoring is:
50 for placed
.002 per PI
150 per kill

50 (placed) + 10 PI (5000*.002) - 150 (kill) = -90

It's now only 50 a kill, net result +10.

Phantom

It sounds like Kabam is finally listening (ish) and are trying to solve the loophole of no defender placement. Good job so far. We just need to take one step further and eliminate defender diversity, or at least reduce it drastically.

It's not really fair to be penalized for who you use. Is it? Nightcrawler and Hyperion are two of the most overused defender in the game, among some others such as Magik and Dormammu. I don't care. They're overused for a reason, and that reason is that they're freaking awesome. I'm fortunate enough to have both. I've ranked both of them up to be some of my top champs. How is it fair for my alliance to be penalized because of someone I decided to use? Either I don't use them, and I go grab some random three star that hadn't been placed, which leads to a boring War, or I do use them, which might be the difference in whether my alliance wins or loses.

Now, I'm not a huge fan of rank down tickets. And I'll disregard the fact that Kabam won't give out rank downs for people who say that they only used a champ for thorns nodes. But I can't ignore the fact that we get penalized for using literally anyone we use that's good in placement. That's impossible for me to overlook. As I said before, the difference between your alliance winning or losing may be just a few hundred points in a tight match. If someone in your alliance has only a couple r5 champs, and one of them is a Nightcrawler for Defense, they can't place them if they want to come out on top of those super tight matches. If we're going to keep Defender Diversity, then lots of rank down tickets must be issued. And, as has been stated many times, that could screw up the game. We weren't meant to be able to reverse our rank up decisions. That's one of the biggest factors of the game. Choose wisely or forever regret it. But this time, the regret isn't self-inflicted. It's from Kabam. I don't have the best Nightcrawler in my alliance. That means I can't place him, or it hurts my team. I only ranked him up for defensive purposes, but now I can't use him without costing my alliance points.

That's why Defender Diversity needs to go. We can't place the people we ranked up for placement. We either need rank down tickets, which messes up the game, and is not a great idea, or we need this bogus scoring aspect gone. Let's make it happen. Do that, and War can go back to its mediocre self again. Let's get going.

Anonymous

Hoping for kabam to make a positive change is like rooting for the Cleveland Browns

RagamugginGunner

Markjv81 wrote: »

RagamugginGunner wrote: »

The scoring is:
50 for placed
.002 per PI
150 per kill

50 (placed) + 10 PI (5000*.002) - 150 (kill) = -90

It's now only 50 a kill, net result +10.

You're right. My fault for coping the values they posted in the announcement thread.

Hey Kabam, how about you update your info?

Sighsohard

All you unskilled. Slow. Old men and women that complained endlessly about not being able to kill a NC, a spider man and a magik are why this is happening. You were terrible. Now the Game is terrible.

R4GE

Sighsohard wrote: »

All you unskilled. Slow. Old men and women that complained endlessly about not being able to kill a NC, a spider man and a magik are why this is happening. You were terrible. Now the Game is terrible.

While this could have been worded better, it does have some truth to it. Many people did complain AW was to hard for them and complained about the top defenders. For some, they got exactly what they asked for and now choose to complain about it. Not arguing AW is right in its current state, just pointing out the irony.

Speeds80

This war would be bearable if you brought back a small amount of points from defender kills possibly after the first three deaths as was suggested originally, to make setting a tough defense comparable with a diverse defense if enough deaths added up, the other changes necessary are taking the energy use away from portal use, and removing a linked node or two, as you originally said there would be less waiting around and this is clearly not true. dare I say make all the defenders a bit stronger, it's seriously a walk in the park

Thestoryteller6

R4GE wrote: »

Sighsohard wrote: »

All you unskilled. Slow. Old men and women that complained endlessly about not being able to kill a NC, a spider man and a magik are why this is happening. You were terrible. Now the Game is terrible.

While this could have been worded better, it does have some truth to it. Many people did complain AW was to hard for them and complained about the top defenders. For some, they got exactly what they asked for and now choose to complain about it. Not arguing AW is right in its current state, just pointing out the irony.

There's a difference between pointing out a problem and getting a rubbish solution. Just because AW had BS nodes, doesn't mean it should be neutered and dumbed down completely.

Kocheese

So alot to read.. ? Is diversity throughout the whole alliance like what prestige is? Or does it just pertain to the war battler groups?

Jon8299

Thestoryteller6 wrote: »

R4GE wrote: »

Sighsohard wrote: »

All you unskilled. Slow. Old men and women that complained endlessly about not being able to kill a NC, a spider man and a magik are why this is happening. You were terrible. Now the Game is terrible.

While this could have been worded better, it does have some truth to it. Many people did complain AW was to hard for them and complained about the top defenders. For some, they got exactly what they asked for and now choose to complain about it. Not arguing AW is right in its current state, just pointing out the irony.

There's a difference between pointing out a problem and getting a rubbish solution. Just because AW had BS nodes, doesn't mean it should be neutered and dumbed down completely.

So they gave Alliance Wars the Dr. Strange treatment? Can't wait to see what October has in store for us with 6* joining the Contest.

Jon8299

Kocheese wrote: »

So alot to read.. ? Is diversity throughout the whole alliance like what prestige is? Or does it just pertain to the war battler groups?

It's supposed to be the first one, but it's the second. It's a bug and will be fixed soon.

R4GE

Thestoryteller6 wrote: »

R4GE wrote: »

Sighsohard wrote: »

All you unskilled. Slow. Old men and women that complained endlessly about not being able to kill a NC, a spider man and a magik are why this is happening. You were terrible. Now the Game is terrible.

While this could have been worded better, it does have some truth to it. Many people did complain AW was to hard for them and complained about the top defenders. For some, they got exactly what they asked for and now choose to complain about it. Not arguing AW is right in its current state, just pointing out the irony.

There's a difference between pointing out a problem and getting a rubbish solution. Just because AW had BS nodes, doesn't mean it should be neutered and dumbed down completely.

Im simply reflecting on the 100's and 100's of non stop daily threads where people complained all the defenders were to OP and needing nerfed. I don't see how they were pointing out a problem vs not knowing how to fight champs many others had no struggles with. Kabam obviously heard them and decided to give them what they want. "OP" champs gone, now I don't see those same complaint anymore but see some of those same players now arguing its to easy and wanting rand down tickets for an issue that was created on their behalf.

Nodes were a problem? Maybe for some, while others knew to use strategy or certain champs to bypass them. So again, the constant complaints on a daily bases were AW was to hard because of these nodes. Now they are gone.....exactly what the community asked for.

Irony, thats it. I can't stress how much I hate the new system so don't take what I say as an argument to suggest I like the new system.

chunkyb

So one of the things that people often complained about was the advantage top allis had in war. How do you beat such op champs? They all have magik/nc/whatever champ is your personal nightmare. Or they're willing to pay to win. Whatever. One of the main false arguments that was propped up was advantages/unfairness.

So now we have diversity. And it's been pitched in various ways. It's a 'balancing', or it takes away advantages of those having nightmare defenses, etc etc. And this was introduced with a pretty bad map with very weak nodes... And pretty much everyone is 100%-ing the map and getting boss kills. Which heightens the importance of diversity points.

And we were told that diversity points wouldn't be huge, but would be more of a "tiebreaker" metric. But it's proven to be the main decider as long as allis complete the map.. Which they almost all do. Then they nerf attack points into the ground which makes diversity even more important.

So you win by diversity. But here's the question. How do you get more diversity points? Well, you get new champs that others don't have. Who is better equipped and/or more likely to get new champs almost immediately? The top tier allis/spenders.

So while everyone is scrambling making spreadsheets to try to maximize diversity points, it'll all be wasted if the enemy alli got the 2 latest new champs. Same thing will happen over and over and over. It will get to the point where you can't compete if you aren't getting those new champs at a pretty constant rate.

You want to offset their advantage? You certainly can't do it with skill. You have to chase champs. The new wars are a great example of how the focus of the game is no longer skill. It plays almost zero part in the war equation.

This iteration of war needs to be scrapped completely at this point.

Sighsohard

Thestoryteller6 wrote: »

R4GE wrote: »

Sighsohard wrote: »

All you unskilled. Slow. Old men and women that complained endlessly about not being able to kill a NC, a spider man and a magik are why this is happening. You were terrible. Now the Game is terrible.

While this could have been worded better, it does have some truth to it. Many people did complain AW was to hard for them and complained about the top defenders. For some, they got exactly what they asked for and now choose to complain about it. Not arguing AW is right in its current state, just pointing out the irony.

There's a difference between pointing out a problem and getting a rubbish solution. Just because AW had BS nodes, doesn't mean it should be neutered and dumbed down completely.

Dude. What node was not possible. I took 10 nodes. Every war. Including left mini and boss with 3 potions used. Every war. We cycled between t2 and t1. Maybe you just need practice or strategy. I'm happy to help with either. Don't ruin the game for the rest of tho. And yourself.

Kocheese

So they basically reinvented this as another aspect tied to the whole alliance like prestige is??!! Wow! Just wow! I'm not usually on the rank down tickets but they are truly warranted in this case. I have 17 r5s that I invested in. I don't want to rank champs off of this method.

the6th

I think over use of AW defenders is the problem. There are times where the whole map have almost the same defenders like nc/mordo/spideys/hype/dormammu and a lot complaining about this, now def kills are removed because of this, and diversity is the key to use other champs as a defender

R4GE

R4GE wrote: »

Thestoryteller6 wrote: »

R4GE wrote: »

Sighsohard wrote: »

All you unskilled. Slow. Old men and women that complained endlessly about not being able to kill a NC, a spider man and a magik are why this is happening. You were terrible. Now the Game is terrible.

While this could have been worded better, it does have some truth to it. Many people did complain AW was to hard for them and complained about the top defenders. For some, they got exactly what they asked for and now choose to complain about it. Not arguing AW is right in its current state, just pointing out the irony.

There's a difference between pointing out a problem and getting a rubbish solution. Just because AW had BS nodes, doesn't mean it should be neutered and dumbed down completely.

Im simply reflecting on the 100's and 100's of non stop daily threads where people complained all the defenders were to OP and needing nerfed. I don't see how they were pointing out a problem vs not knowing how to fight champs many others had no struggles with. Kabam obviously heard them and decided to give them what they want. "OP" champs gone, now I don't see those same complaint anymore but see some of those same players now arguing its to easy and wanting rand down tickets for an issue that was created on their behalf.

Nodes were a problem? Maybe for some, while others knew to use strategy or certain champs to bypass them. So again, the constant complaints on a daily bases were AW was to hard because of these nodes. Now they are gone.....exactly what the community asked for.

Irony, thats it. I can't stress how much I hate the new system so don't take what I say as an argument to suggest I like the new system.

One thing I hope many players learn from this is don't come to the forums complaining every time you lose a fight in AW just because you haven't learned ways around nodes or how to fight certain champs, or else the end result is what we are currently suffering at this time. For all I know those players are happy with this. None of this targeted towards anyone in particular in this thread. But we all are well aware of the daily complaints that more than likely lead us up to this state of the game.

Kocheese

Ya but @the6th that's how kabam designed it so why wouldn't players do that. If they want to win the put the hardest Champs to fight. Can't blame ppl for that. This is just a mess. Has to be another way. Imo it's just a way of extending the game more. It's painstaking ranking and r5 and 5* r4

vikky89

the6th wrote: »

I think over use of AW defenders is the problem. There are times where the whole map have almost the same defenders like nc/mordo/spideys/hype/dormammu and a lot complaining about this, now def kills are removed because of this, and diversity is the key to use other champs as a defender

I dont understand this overuse argument, They are used for a simple reason coz they are really good in defense coupled with MD. They could have just fixed dexterity interacting with MD that would have solved complaints about mystic wars. I dont see anyone complain about overuse of offense champs DV SL AA !! If you really want diversity then either fix all the useless champs or enforce diversity on offense too

GroundedWisdom

the6th wrote: »

I think over use of AW defenders is the problem. There are times where the whole map have almost the same defenders like nc/mordo/spideys/hype/dormammu and a lot complaining about this, now def kills are removed because of this, and diversity is the key to use other champs as a defender

Well, yes. That was one of the issues. However, what people fail to realize is that the whole God/Garbage argument is based on the utility in the old system. Meaning, the only reason people formed such opinions was based on their application in War. Thus, Diversity came into place. It's no longer about using the same Champs multiple times which, let's face it, makes for a monotonous experience. A BG full of the same Champs is pretty repetitive. It makes it a game against who pulls the same few Champs. Magik, NC, Hyperion, etc.
The argument is that the system was designed that way, and they used them because they were the most efficient in that. Only, the introduction of Diversity is not punishment. People were just playing the system the way it was. What some fail to realize is it created a problem. Not only because of the abundance in the BGs, but also a value imbalance where the same Champs were considered good, and the rest were seen as garbage. Diversity is a good thing. It means taking fuller advantage of the Champs that are available. There are some issues with the balancing of Points, but it's not a bad thing. Naturally, people are resistant, the same way they were resistant to the changes to BW, SW, etc. Simply because they're used to playing the way they did. It's change. It's not punishment or any other form of restriction. It's about making a more diverse field to play in, and it's just a shift in focus. I'm willing to bet it won't be considered so bad when the Rewards are revised. Lol.

LocoMotives

I've fought Phoenix, winter soldier, Cyclops, and Ronan this war so far. Diversity is the most boring thing to ever happen to war, may as well just play master quest again.

RagamugginGunner

Fighting terrible champs is way more boring than fighting the same 5-10 hard champs.

DD2

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Well, yes. That was one of the issues. However, what people fail to realize is that the whole God/Garbage argument is based on the utility in the old system.

What old system are you talking about. You mean the system where taking the best champ increases their chances of success? Why is that such a bad thing? Why are you against people choosing the best champions? Are they supposed to pick bad ones to make you happy? Cause they're not doing themselves a favor.

Not all champs are equal. Should we tell Kabam to make them all the same? That would be more boring, uncreative, and monotonous than anything else.

GroundedWisdom

DD2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Well, yes. That was one of the issues. However, what people fail to realize is that the whole God/Garbage argument is based on the utility in the old system.

What old system are you talking about. You mean the system where taking the best champ increases their chances of success? Why is that such a bad thing? Why are you against people choosing the best champions? Are they supposed to pick bad ones to make you happy? Cause they're not doing themselves a favor.

Not all champs are equal. Should we tell Kabam to make them all the same? That would be more boring, uncreative, and monotonous than anything else.

From the point of view of a Developer, I wouldn't create a product that people would want to use 2% of. I would want them to make as much use of all of it as possible. What you missed in the comment I made is that the the only reason people consider them bad is based on their use in that system.

Jon8299

That would have helped deversify the AW. Giving first year champs buffs and/or unique abilites.

If nothing else that's what 6* should be. That way new players won't have it easier than us who have been playing since the games first year.

DD2

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

From the point of view of a Developer, I wouldn't create a product that people would want to use 2% of.

As a developer, your goal is to establish value in the game to encourage players to work for that value. If all characters are identical in value, there is no incentive to invest in the game and the developer makes less money.

A game with identical characters doesn't last more than a few months. This is both bad for developers who want to make money and incredibly boring and unworthy of investment from players.

GroundedWisdom

DD2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

From the point of view of a Developer, I wouldn't create a product that people would want to use 2% of.

As a developer, your goal is to establish value in the game to encourage players to work for that value. If all characters are identical in value, there is no incentive to invest in the game and the developer makes less money.

A game with identical characters doesn't last more than a few months. This is both bad for developers who want to make money and incredibly boring and unworthy of investment from players.

They are anything but identical. Save for a few that are pretty close. (IM+SIM, CM,MM, etc)
It's obvious you feel a certain way about this, so we are going to have to agree to disagree. I'm all for Diversity. I'm all for leveling things and making it a more fair experience. That's just how I feel.

Dr_ARCHer

That is why I say, those players with Thanos are the most sought after because it is the rarest champ to date.

GroundedWisdom

No thanks.

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