15.0 Alliance Wars Update Discussion Thread

Summoners!

Our 15.0 Update is just about a week away, and with it, it's bringing a huge change to Alliance Wars! Check out everything you need to know about the Brand New Map, Scoring Changes, and new boosts in the Loyalty Store here: http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/17902/15-0-alliance-wars-update/

Comments

SB3K

Tier 2 alliance member here. I think diversity is a decent idea and could have a place if calibrated correctly.

The real issues are (a) removing defender kills and (b) the nodes are too easy. These changes took all skill out of the game (and put a huge burden on the officers to figure out unique defenses). Right now, we are in an even war with another 9 million+ alliance. Both alliances have finished half the map and each only has 5 deaths. Like every other 2.0 war we have fought, both alliances will 100% the map and it will come down to defender diversity and defender rating.

Malik_Ankur

This is the shittiest update by kabam. They told that diversity will be calculated across all bg but it seems diversity is calculated across per bg.
What the **** you are doing kabam. This is just a non sense like uneducated fellow and you are trying all these to help spenders. I urge people don't waste their time in this game. They are dumb ass. They don't even understand the game. After sometime they can even make a rule that only spender will play the game.
Go to hell. I Quit

DD2

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

DD2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

From the point of view of a Developer, I wouldn't create a product that people would want to use 2% of.

As a developer, your goal is to establish value in the game to encourage players to work for that value. If all characters are identical in value, there is no incentive to invest in the game and the developer makes less money.

A game with identical characters doesn't last more than a few months. This is both bad for developers who want to make money and incredibly boring and unworthy of investment from players.

They are anything but identical. Save for a few that are pretty close. (IM+SIM, CM,MM, etc)
It's obvious you feel a certain way about this, so we are going to have to agree to disagree. I'm all for Diversity. I'm all for leveling things and making it a more fair experience. That's just how I feel.

Diversity and defender rating is what wins wars.

Poor defenders are given the same diversity points that good defenders get.

You can "feel" anyway you like, but the math doesn't lie.

Malik_Ankur

Removing defender kill and making node easy is the way that both alliance can easily explore 100%. So now they want us to upgrade all **** champs even spider gwen, she hulk and want us to buy 4* crystal so that we can have more diverse champs. Diversity Idea was good but removing defender kill clears the picture that they don't need skill people. They need only spenders.. Really wanna **** u kabam for the time I have wasted. It's good time to uninstall mcoc and install asphalt 8. Atleast no frustration.

GroundedWisdom

DD2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

DD2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

From the point of view of a Developer, I wouldn't create a product that people would want to use 2% of.

As a developer, your goal is to establish value in the game to encourage players to work for that value. If all characters are identical in value, there is no incentive to invest in the game and the developer makes less money.

A game with identical characters doesn't last more than a few months. This is both bad for developers who want to make money and incredibly boring and unworthy of investment from players.

They are anything but identical. Save for a few that are pretty close. (IM+SIM, CM,MM, etc)
It's obvious you feel a certain way about this, so we are going to have to agree to disagree. I'm all for Diversity. I'm all for leveling things and making it a more fair experience. That's just how I feel.

Diversity and defender rating is what wins wars.

Poor defenders are given the same diversity points that good defenders get.

You can "feel" anyway you like, but the math doesn't lie.

I'm not arguing about the math. I said I'm all for Diversity. I'm not debating this. Sorry.

Afrid

OG deadpool, thanos and kang are now really valuable

CoatHang3r

Huh? We had a chance at taking on top allies in the old war system but now we don't?!?! Outrageous! /s

So um where were these false arguments of advantages/unfairness you mentioned? Looks like another straw man.

DD2

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

DD2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

DD2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

From the point of view of a Developer, I wouldn't create a product that people would want to use 2% of.

As a developer, your goal is to establish value in the game to encourage players to work for that value. If all characters are identical in value, there is no incentive to invest in the game and the developer makes less money.

A game with identical characters doesn't last more than a few months. This is both bad for developers who want to make money and incredibly boring and unworthy of investment from players.

They are anything but identical. Save for a few that are pretty close. (IM+SIM, CM,MM, etc)
It's obvious you feel a certain way about this, so we are going to have to agree to disagree. I'm all for Diversity. I'm all for leveling things and making it a more fair experience. That's just how I feel.

Diversity and defender rating is what wins wars.

Poor defenders are given the same diversity points that good defenders get.

You can "feel" anyway you like, but the math doesn't lie.

I'm not arguing about the math. I said I'm all for Diversity. I'm not debating this. Sorry.

When you're for diversity you're for treating all champions equally when in fact they are not.

It makes no sense to want it.

the6th

Yesterday we're shocked when one of our members bring JF to r5 well maybe to add him as a defender

GroundedWisdom

DD2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

DD2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

DD2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

From the point of view of a Developer, I wouldn't create a product that people would want to use 2% of.

As a developer, your goal is to establish value in the game to encourage players to work for that value. If all characters are identical in value, there is no incentive to invest in the game and the developer makes less money.

A game with identical characters doesn't last more than a few months. This is both bad for developers who want to make money and incredibly boring and unworthy of investment from players.

They are anything but identical. Save for a few that are pretty close. (IM+SIM, CM,MM, etc)
It's obvious you feel a certain way about this, so we are going to have to agree to disagree. I'm all for Diversity. I'm all for leveling things and making it a more fair experience. That's just how I feel.

Diversity and defender rating is what wins wars.

Poor defenders are given the same diversity points that good defenders get.

You can "feel" anyway you like, but the math doesn't lie.

I'm not arguing about the math. I said I'm all for Diversity. I'm not debating this. Sorry.

When you're for diversity you're for treating all champions equally when in fact they are not.

It makes no sense to want it.

If that's how you feel, that's how you feel. As I said I'm for Diversity so we will have to agree to disagree.

DD2

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

If that's how you feel, that's how you feel. As I said I'm for Diversity so we will have to agree to disagree.

How can you be for equality when the characters clearly aren't equal?

vikky89

SB3K wrote: »

Tier 2 alliance member here. I think diversity is a decent idea and could have a place if calibrated correctly.

The real issues are (a) removing defender kills and (b) the nodes are too easy. These changes took all skill out of the game (and put a huge burden on the officers to figure out unique defenses). Right now, we are in an even war with another 9 million+ alliance. Both alliances have finished half the map and each only has 5 deaths. Like every other 2.0 war we have fought, both alliances will 100% the map and it will come down to defender diversity and defender rating.

Problem with that is Diversity and defender kills cannot co-exist if they have equal weight. If you go for diversity no matter nodes you dont get too many kills with so many useless champs. If you go for defender kills , you loose on diversity. Adding defender kills + Buffing nodes will certainly get back skill in to wars, they should atleast decrease pts for diversity or just remove it altogether.

SB3K

vikky89 wrote: »

SB3K wrote: »

Tier 2 alliance member here. I think diversity is a decent idea and could have a place if calibrated correctly.

The real issues are (a) removing defender kills and (b) the nodes are too easy. These changes took all skill out of the game (and put a huge burden on the officers to figure out unique defenses). Right now, we are in an even war with another 9 million+ alliance. Both alliances have finished half the map and each only has 5 deaths. Like every other 2.0 war we have fought, both alliances will 100% the map and it will come down to defender diversity and defender rating.

Problem with that is Diversity and defender kills cannot co-exist if they have equal weight. If you go for diversity no matter nodes you dont get too many kills with so many useless champs. If you go for defender kills , you loose on diversity. Adding defender kills + Buffing nodes will certainly get back skill in to wars, they should atleast decrease pts for diversity or just remove it altogether.

By "properly balanced", I didn't mean "equal weight. I think defender kills is overall more important. That said, there are plenty of 1.0 wars where it was a close match and having it decided by defender diversity wouldn't be a bad thing. Therefore, having a meaningful amount of diversity points could be good, but it shouldn't be in lieu of, or otherwise negate, points awarded based on skill.

UC439

andrade5184 wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Hey All,

Thank you for the feedback on Alliance Wars and the recent changes that we made to the Mode!

We’ve made some further adjustments to the mode following the first week of Alliance Wars, and we’re not done yet! We had a set of goals from the get go to make Alliance Wars more fun, engaging, varied, and to address a lot of the concerns that you all had brought up over the course of Alliance Wars existence in game.

We agree we haven't hit those goals yet, but we expect this process to require some iteration based on data collection and feedback.

We're continuing to plan more adjustments and changes, and will be sure to update you all as we make progress. Thank you for your patience as we work to make Alliance Wars the best that it can be!

what about rank down tickets @Kabam Miike so we can readjust our war defenders?

RDTs are absolute necessary in this point. My defenders have become totally useless, & I spent so much time n effort to bring them up & had plans to rank them further up in future. Completely destabilized my strategy at this point. I like diversity, but to keep diversity kabam should also plan accordingly, & give us rank down tickets, so that our time n effort doesn't feel wasted.

Kpatrix

You know it's going to be a long war when you see the first two champs defeated to remove a linked node are Carnage and Joe Fixit, followed by rocket, moon knoght, UC, Scarlet witch, venom, Hyperion, ghost Rider, war machine, winter soldier, karnak, iron fist, black panther, and Gwen pool. Don't forget Groot.and nebula.

We already know that we have lost, unless our defense stops them and they aren't spending as we are averaging 45 per bg diversity. Should have known better and went all out placing 4/40 champs instead of our highest ranked ones.

Say @Kabam Miike , you have any bonus points boosts for sale that we can use to make up the difference in diversity points ? Because we aren't going to need any items and I want to make sure you guys eat this week. So how about it, sell us some points boosts, I can't use anything else this war.

nuggz

If diversity is here to stay....

How about we add points to boss kills in the order in which they are killed, like a time attack in a way.

First allaince to get a boss kill gets a bonus x amount of points. 2nd, 3rd, and so on.

First alliance to get all three boss.kills also gets a bonus x amount of points.

You get the idea.

phillgreen

I'm thinking only running two battlegroups means diversity won't matter, it might even make running an alliance easier if you can roster and rotate members according to champ types and availability but might upset the guys who miss out.

Speeds80

We run two battle groups anyway so once everyone switches to 100% diversity it will come down to who has the highest ranking **** champs

gahrling

nuggz wrote: »

If diversity is here to stay....

How about we add points to boss kills in the order in which they are killed, like a time attack in a way.

Because that only punishes the alliances who have members in different timezones. Unless you think it's reasonable for people not to sleep?

MEKA5

Let's try and keep this thread positive and constructive. They really need to get some honest feedback about AW.

Mcord11758

Simple solution. Scrap this terrible update, revert to told map and scoring, shuffle nodes randomly so that paths are not the same every time. War is now challenging and fun again. This concept of diversity violates the entire premise of desirable champs. I am so happy I didn't rank 5 my mordo and opted to go with magik because at least we is much more viable as an attacker. A war map of **** defenders is just blah.

NinjAlan

Someone in here hit the nail on the head. They either don't realize how long it takes to rank a defense (resource and time wise) or they simply don't care. Don't try to white knight this one either, perception is reality, and despite their intent, their actions show this to be true

Mightylibra

The problem is they are trying to fix the system that ain't broke. Diversity could be a better idea if placed in proper context. The outcome of war should be determined by what factors matter most., which are, by order, Exploration, Attaker Kill, Defender Kill, then Diversity. Diversity points in close match could be decisive and fun.

However, Kabam's new set of rules completely undermine all of others factors in war while favor only diversity. I still don't understand what they want to achieve here, business-wise. Potion sales are definitely not increased and people won't level up non-defenders for the sake of diversity.

If they want to fix, it's easy. Just revert back to old system plus diversity points. Add more features to other class special to counter MD. Why's that so hard to understand?

R4GE

DD2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

If that's how you feel, that's how you feel. As I said I'm for Diversity so we will have to agree to disagree.

How can you be for equality when the characters clearly aren't equal?

Some people you'll have to accept you will never get through to lol. How do I put this to good understanding or not calling players out?

"Some" players are in very poor tiers and don't even have champs ranked up for AW 1.0, so they aren't in the same mind set as you. They have all r4 4*s so they aren't losing any solid defenders and probably don't have them to begin with. So they don't feel the struggle of having to start over and start ranking new champs for diversity. And with all r4 4*s and in their current tier, diversity is all they have (which is why they are in favor of it). While the stronger player base has worked hard for the top defenders and blown through resources on them and ignored the terrible champs, we feel the pain in the higher tiers. We aren't looking for "easy" wars either, like those in favor of diversity because it just doesn't make sense in our tiers in its current state. The lower tiers don't understand that they will in fact feel the struggle at some point, they just don't right now. It seems a matter of, "I don't have what you have, I didn't play as hard as you, and this is a way for me/us to win rewards with out skill or effort." There's some opinions in there, but hope it all makes sense.

Greywarden

In a war right now against a group with an OG Vision, Kang and a Kingpin......if we both 100% we lose because some people got lucky spins or played while the OG Vision was out?

unknown

This content has been removed.

Greywarden

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Hey All,

Thank you for the feedback on Alliance Wars and the recent changes that we made to the Mode!

We’ve made some further adjustments to the mode following the first week of Alliance Wars, and we’re not done yet! We had a set of goals from the get go to make Alliance Wars more fun, engaging, varied, and to address a lot of the concerns that you all had brought up over the course of Alliance Wars existence in game.

We agree we haven't hit those goals yet, but we expect this process to require some iteration based on data collection and feedback.

We're continuing to plan more adjustments and changes, and will be sure to update you all as we make progress. Thank you for your patience as we work to make Alliance Wars the best that it can be!

@Kabam Miike

I think everybody can agree, at least for the most part that defender diversity is an interesting idea. The current application of it is just off. At certain tiers it isn't the tie breaker as you mentioned, it's the only thing that matters.

I had a mini-rant a few pages ago where I listed out some ideas but just re-posting some of those general things that I really think encapsulates the 49 pages of frustration.

1) Bring back defender kills in some degree, there has to be a penalty for dying other than using an item. Some ideas;

a) Bring them back altogether and figure out a point allocation that works for what you're trying to accomplish. I suggest making them equal to or more than diversity in points so you can make a decision between the two during placement.
b) Just count boss kills
c) Have a "death cap" per Tier. If you go over that death cap you start to get penalized points. The higher the tier the lower the death cap.

2) Diversity is here to stay, but it is really broken. Some ideas;

a) Take the unattainable out of the equation. Thanos, Kang, OG Deadpool/OG Vision shouldn't count towards diversity since so few people have them. It may go against the very principle of diversity but nobody wants to lose because somebody got lucky during Christmas....
b) Have a cap of 3 unique champs per alliance. Anything more than those 3 (or some arbitrary number) and you don't get diversity points for that champ. I'm suggesting 3 so that all BG's can use their best. It really makes it tough during placement when you have to go through every BG's defenders and try to get as unique as possible. The amount of work isn't worth the rewards. Especially tough when you have to leave your r3 magik on the bench because sig level is a few less than somebody else's.
c) Reduce points for diversity

3) The map could use a little work, it really takes forever if you're on the outside routes. Some ideas;

a) Reduce number of empty nodes
b) Reduce energy refresh timer
b) Make portal transportation cost no energy
c) Increase energy cap to 7 or 8

4) Not really mentioned but the top left miniboss only has one path to get to it whereas every other boss has two portals leading to it, intentional?

Thanks!

R4GE

This may have been mentioned already, but there is almost 50 pages now to look through.

While timers for energy was dropped, does it seem full exploration takes much longer to finish vs old map with longer energy timers?

jobouff

Ok now that Alliance War is not a war anymore, will you guys gift us rank down tickets soon? We all ranked up our Mordo, Magik, Dormammu, Spidey, Nightcrawler because they were great defenders in your old system. With the new one, they are useless. I'm in a 11.5 mil alliance with very skilled fighters and we just lost to a 8 mil alliance with low skills just because of defenders diversity. We can't place 10 NC, 10 Spidey and 10 Mordo anymore cause diversity will make us lose.

You completely change the way AW is working now so you NEED to give us rank down tickets so we can rank up champs especially for defense.

Amonthir

First, let's see if they actually implement Alliance-wide diversity WITHOUT the return of DK points. If they take that path, then yes, there will be an advantage for Alliances who both own rare champs such as LoLtron/Thanos, and also go for the new champs every time. Although that actually hurts KabaMarble in the long run, as only a single member of each alliance needs to get the new champ.

Now if they move to combine Diversity with DK points, things get much more different, and would add a nice choice of diversity points vs likelihood of champ getting kills, so long as they boost some nodes so that champs other than bosses can get any.