15.0 Alliance Wars Update Discussion Thread

Summoners!

Our 15.0 Update is just about a week away, and with it, it's bringing a huge change to Alliance Wars! Check out everything you need to know about the Brand New Map, Scoring Changes, and new boosts in the Loyalty Store here: http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/17902/15-0-alliance-wars-update/

Comments

MadMarks

The real funny thing is diversity only goes per BG, once they change it to alliance wide like it was suppose to be, it will be even more complaining.

Mcord11758

It is possible to solo 5* magik using an assortment of champs not just arch angel.

Magik, voodoo, and gwenpool are other examples

IAmNotUrMom

Mcord11758 wrote: »

It is possible to solo 5* magik using an assortment of champs not just arch angel.

Magik, voodoo, and gwenpool are other examples

I'd be a big fan of watching some Magik on Magik action or Gwenpool on Magik action.

Beholder_V

Wasn't aware of that one. I'll test it out, but I thought you still lost half life. I did remember seeing someone post the theory of using Ironman types and at a certain point in the fight you let them Arc Overload back to 2/3 health, force quite game, lose half health, and fight till Arc Overload again, rinse and repeat till they're dead. Don't know if anyone has tried that or not, sounds like something Kabam would consider an exploit to me.

GroundedWisdom

MadMarks wrote: »

The real funny thing is diversity only goes per BG, once they change it to alliance wide like it was suppose to be, it will be even more complaining.

Technically, it's meant to be Ally-wide.

xdethsquadx

Ive read through this entire thread and in summation, and for the benefit of Kabam and player alike, here is what you need to consider:

1. We all want MD altered to disqualify Dexterity as a trigger. This makes for unenjoyable AW play.

2. We want defender diversity to carry almost no weight, OR give us a set of rank down tickets to help us deal with your new round of destroying the integrity of our hard fought upgrades to champs that we only used for defense. We will not upgrade your plethora of unplayable champions with rare resources just to get a few points in AW in a broken system.

3. Fix all the bugs that create slow motion play, eject us mid fight, and give story mode enemies unlisted MEGA damage boosts that cost us items.

THREE THINGS. THATS IT. THATS IS WHAT YOU MUST DO TO PACIFY YOUR DISGRUNTLED PLAYER BASE.

Beholder_V

I already have a job, I don't want to have to spend hours every war trying to arrange a perfectly diverse yet somehow still challenging defense every war. This feels like something Kabam should pay me to do, not vice versa.

chunkyb

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Hulk_77 wrote: »

Fixing War is simple and does not need to be a complex overhaul. I will lay it out real quick:

1) Make 2 portals able to hit the leftmost mini-boss (currently only 1 does)

2) Keep diversity internal to battle groups. Its current state is apparently a bug, but it also makes the most sense. I does not grant advantage to alliances who have champs like a Deadpool or Kang, and each attacker is only fighting in one battle group anyways. Spreading it across the whole alliance is an incredible headache to manage as well. Plus, with less than 150 champs (107 currently I think), this would reward having 50 different defenders in each battle group vs having 100 unique defenders jammed into 2 BGs with the third BG filled with nothing but Magik, Dorm, Nightcrawler, etc. Which is where the meta will trend, and it will be complete unfair for whichever BG ends up drawing that opponent's BG.

3) Change scoring to the below:

Points Breakdown:
Node Exploration: 300 per Node (equals out to before, when it was 450)
Boss Kill: 20 000 Points
Defenders Placed: 50 per Defender Placed
Defender Diversity: 125 per Unique Defender
Defender Rating: 0.002 per PI
Attacker Kills: 150 per Kill (please note this only works with diversity INTERNAL to BGs, not alliance wide)
Defender Kills: 50 per Kill

This points breakdown actually leaves a skill element (not dying) and makes diversity matter. And as for not attacking because you're afraid you'd die... clearing the node in less than 9 deaths is still a net point gain for the attacker, so it shouldn't be a big deal. Without defender kills, the skill element is completely gone, and war's outcomes are determined before the first punch is thrown. Which simply put, just isn't any fun. This is a game, right?

The above setup challenges an alliance to make the best possible defense it can while also using 50 diverse champs in each battle group, which is great for variety and will make war less boring. It also keeps skill a factor. If you can clear the map in less deaths than your opponent, you can beat an opponent that is more highly ranked than you. Which is how war should be.

Finally, the above will work, but I would also consider adding a few new buffs to some nodes. Specific to groups, like "Robots gain X on this this node", "Inhumans gain Y on this node", "Villians gain Z on this node". We have all of these tags on our heroes, use them!

The scoring system is an idea, but the problem with adding Defender Kills into the metrics again is it creates the same issue. It contradicts Diversity, and also makes it possible to KO into a Loss again. That would be two of the objectives of the changes. Basically, teams would opt to use the same Defenders regardless, and the KOs would be the focus.

God forbid that losing a fight in a fighting game could result in a negative thing. That would be awful.

King_turd123

chunkyb wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Hulk_77 wrote: »

Fixing War is simple and does not need to be a complex overhaul. I will lay it out real quick:

1) Make 2 portals able to hit the leftmost mini-boss (currently only 1 does)

2) Keep diversity internal to battle groups. Its current state is apparently a bug, but it also makes the most sense. I does not grant advantage to alliances who have champs like a Deadpool or Kang, and each attacker is only fighting in one battle group anyways. Spreading it across the whole alliance is an incredible headache to manage as well. Plus, with less than 150 champs (107 currently I think), this would reward having 50 different defenders in each battle group vs having 100 unique defenders jammed into 2 BGs with the third BG filled with nothing but Magik, Dorm, Nightcrawler, etc. Which is where the meta will trend, and it will be complete unfair for whichever BG ends up drawing that opponent's BG.

3) Change scoring to the below:

Points Breakdown:
Node Exploration: 300 per Node (equals out to before, when it was 450)
Boss Kill: 20 000 Points
Defenders Placed: 50 per Defender Placed
Defender Diversity: 125 per Unique Defender
Defender Rating: 0.002 per PI
Attacker Kills: 150 per Kill (please note this only works with diversity INTERNAL to BGs, not alliance wide)
Defender Kills: 50 per Kill

This points breakdown actually leaves a skill element (not dying) and makes diversity matter. And as for not attacking because you're afraid you'd die... clearing the node in less than 9 deaths is still a net point gain for the attacker, so it shouldn't be a big deal. Without defender kills, the skill element is completely gone, and war's outcomes are determined before the first punch is thrown. Which simply put, just isn't any fun. This is a game, right?

The above setup challenges an alliance to make the best possible defense it can while also using 50 diverse champs in each battle group, which is great for variety and will make war less boring. It also keeps skill a factor. If you can clear the map in less deaths than your opponent, you can beat an opponent that is more highly ranked than you. Which is how war should be.

Finally, the above will work, but I would also consider adding a few new buffs to some nodes. Specific to groups, like "Robots gain X on this this node", "Inhumans gain Y on this node", "Villians gain Z on this node". We have all of these tags on our heroes, use them!

The scoring system is an idea, but the problem with adding Defender Kills into the metrics again is it creates the same issue. It contradicts Diversity, and also makes it possible to KO into a Loss again. That would be two of the objectives of the changes. Basically, teams would opt to use the same Defenders regardless, and the KOs would be the focus.

God forbid that losing a fight in a fighting game could result in a negative thing. That would be awful.

Exactly! Consider what life would be like today if actual wars were lost just because people died.

KhanMedina

Beholder_V wrote: »

I already have a job, I don't want to have to spend hours every war trying to arrange a perfectly diverse yet somehow still challenging defense every war. This feels like something Kabam should pay me to do, not vice versa.

To be fair, you'd only have to do this once in depth and anything else would be maintenance when people ranked up or duped.

Thecurler

No you can just restart the fight... the opponent and yourself start again at the health they were before the fight.
So for example if you have NC as an opponent on stun immune, just force quit and restart the fight if he doesn't give you chance to switch his mode to swashbuckling. Or if Hyperion isn't taking the bait, force quit and avoid that sp3. It's ridiculous.

chunkyb

Theturdcurler wrote: »

No you can just restart the fight... the opponent and yourself start again at the health they were before the fight.
So for example if you have NC as an opponent on stun immune, just force quit and restart the fight if he doesn't give you chance to switch his mode to swashbuckling. Or if Hyperion isn't taking the bait, force quit and avoid that sp3. It's ridiculous.

I'm pretty sure that's an unintended bug and doesn't have anything to do with the new war scoring system/nodes/diversity.

Drewbe14

Lets just face it...its broken.

MyTaffy

This thread is basically pointless. If they do, they will tell you. If you find many threads about RDT or AW Div, that probably means NO to your questions.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Cantstopwontstop

zero7 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Hulk_77 wrote: »

Fixing War is simple and does not need to be a complex overhaul. I will lay it out real quick:

1) Make 2 portals able to hit the leftmost mini-boss (currently only 1 does)

2) Keep diversity internal to battle groups. Its current state is apparently a bug, but it also makes the most sense. I does not grant advantage to alliances who have champs like a Deadpool or Kang, and each attacker is only fighting in one battle group anyways. Spreading it across the whole alliance is an incredible headache to manage as well. Plus, with less than 150 champs (107 currently I think), this would reward having 50 different defenders in each battle group vs having 100 unique defenders jammed into 2 BGs with the third BG filled with nothing but Magik, Dorm, Nightcrawler, etc. Which is where the meta will trend, and it will be complete unfair for whichever BG ends up drawing that opponent's BG.

3) Change scoring to the below:

Points Breakdown:
Node Exploration: 300 per Node (equals out to before, when it was 450)
Boss Kill: 20 000 Points
Defenders Placed: 50 per Defender Placed
Defender Diversity: 125 per Unique Defender
Defender Rating: 0.002 per PI
Attacker Kills: 150 per Kill (please note this only works with diversity INTERNAL to BGs, not alliance wide)
Defender Kills: 50 per Kill

This points breakdown actually leaves a skill element (not dying) and makes diversity matter. And as for not attacking because you're afraid you'd die... clearing the node in less than 9 deaths is still a net point gain for the attacker, so it shouldn't be a big deal. Without defender kills, the skill element is completely gone, and war's outcomes are determined before the first punch is thrown. Which simply put, just isn't any fun. This is a game, right?

The above setup challenges an alliance to make the best possible defense it can while also using 50 diverse champs in each battle group, which is great for variety and will make war less boring. It also keeps skill a factor. If you can clear the map in less deaths than your opponent, you can beat an opponent that is more highly ranked than you. Which is how war should be.

Finally, the above will work, but I would also consider adding a few new buffs to some nodes. Specific to groups, like "Robots gain X on this this node", "Inhumans gain Y on this node", "Villians gain Z on this node". We have all of these tags on our heroes, use them!

The scoring system is an idea, but the problem with adding Defender Kills into the metrics again is it creates the same issue. It contradicts Diversity, and also makes it possible to KO into a Loss again. That would be two of the objectives of the changes. Basically, teams would opt to use the same Defenders regardless, and the KOs would be the focus.

the ko's should be the focus. do you actually play this game? seems like you spend more time on the forums than playing.

He doesn't.

Mcord11758

So how are alliances deciding who the lucky gent is who gets to take spider Gwen or joe fix it or she hulk to rank 5? Is there a lottery or is it low man?

bensonk2

This isn't rocket science.... We play a game, if you kill me, you win. Simple.
If you revive to keep trying to kill me over and over... there should be some sort of penalty for that. This isn't Rainbow bright and her band of fairies spreading joy to the world... lmfao... my god...

Its stupid to think otherwise and is a drastic change to the game if this is the direction they are moving.

If you are in a lesser alliance, or have lesser champs than I do... then you better have good skill to compensate for the difference.

I'm sorry... but if you are in the 8 mil alliance you SHOULD have to work harder to beat a 10 mil alliance... they WILL be stronger than you from a PI/Champ perspective... Diversity should not be the only thing separating two alliances from a win... that's plain stupid.

KhanMedina

Cantstopwontstop wrote: »

zero7 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Hulk_77 wrote: »

Fixing War is simple and does not need to be a complex overhaul. I will lay it out real quick:

1) Make 2 portals able to hit the leftmost mini-boss (currently only 1 does)

2) Keep diversity internal to battle groups. Its current state is apparently a bug, but it also makes the most sense. I does not grant advantage to alliances who have champs like a Deadpool or Kang, and each attacker is only fighting in one battle group anyways. Spreading it across the whole alliance is an incredible headache to manage as well. Plus, with less than 150 champs (107 currently I think), this would reward having 50 different defenders in each battle group vs having 100 unique defenders jammed into 2 BGs with the third BG filled with nothing but Magik, Dorm, Nightcrawler, etc. Which is where the meta will trend, and it will be complete unfair for whichever BG ends up drawing that opponent's BG.

3) Change scoring to the below:

Points Breakdown:
Node Exploration: 300 per Node (equals out to before, when it was 450)
Boss Kill: 20 000 Points
Defenders Placed: 50 per Defender Placed
Defender Diversity: 125 per Unique Defender
Defender Rating: 0.002 per PI
Attacker Kills: 150 per Kill (please note this only works with diversity INTERNAL to BGs, not alliance wide)
Defender Kills: 50 per Kill

This points breakdown actually leaves a skill element (not dying) and makes diversity matter. And as for not attacking because you're afraid you'd die... clearing the node in less than 9 deaths is still a net point gain for the attacker, so it shouldn't be a big deal. Without defender kills, the skill element is completely gone, and war's outcomes are determined before the first punch is thrown. Which simply put, just isn't any fun. This is a game, right?

The above setup challenges an alliance to make the best possible defense it can while also using 50 diverse champs in each battle group, which is great for variety and will make war less boring. It also keeps skill a factor. If you can clear the map in less deaths than your opponent, you can beat an opponent that is more highly ranked than you. Which is how war should be.

Finally, the above will work, but I would also consider adding a few new buffs to some nodes. Specific to groups, like "Robots gain X on this this node", "Inhumans gain Y on this node", "Villians gain Z on this node". We have all of these tags on our heroes, use them!

The scoring system is an idea, but the problem with adding Defender Kills into the metrics again is it creates the same issue. It contradicts Diversity, and also makes it possible to KO into a Loss again. That would be two of the objectives of the changes. Basically, teams would opt to use the same Defenders regardless, and the KOs would be the focus.

the ko's should be the focus. do you actually play this game? seems like you spend more time on the forums than playing.

He doesn't.

He specifically said he stopped playing awhile ago and just comes on here to bother people. Sucks, because you replies more than the real players and they're probably basing things off of his untested ideas assuming he's the voice of the people.

KhanMedina

Please edit War Defense preparation so we can make changes even after we place. I see no reason to lock the champs in for 24 hours and not allow adjustments to be made in case someone dupes a champ and wants to swap. It's not like war starts early when everyone has placed and we get the extra time for attack.

Heywood

MyTaffy wrote: »

This thread is basically pointless. If they do, they will tell you. If you find many threads about RDT or AW Div, that probably means NO to your questions.

I disagree. Kabam needs to know how their community feels about the changes and potential fixes.

Maybe their will delete every thread but as long as they are seeing that their players (the people keeping the game alive) are not happy, then there is value in these types of threads.

Lower diversity points, add defender kill points and the main problems are resolved.

Skellington

MyTaffy wrote: »

This thread is basically pointless. If they do, they will tell you. If you find many threads about RDT or AW Div, that probably means NO to your questions.

Good luck trying to change anything in this life without saying anything. Most of us know that it's futile to talk some sense into Kabam, so why do you think we do it exactly?

unknown

This content has been removed.

Draco2199

I don't understand what the big problem with AW is, it's working fine after fixing the kill points. Everyone is crying about diversity although ALMOST EVERY SINGLE PERSON WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT ALL THE MYSTIC DEFENDERS EVERYWHERE. Kabam gives you what you asked for and makes it a penalty for placing all mystic and no ones happy still. I like it, its working fine. You want to win 100% and be diverse. Enough said.

A_Noob_Is1

Suggestions on the new AW:

1.The new map for AW should be kept only for lower tiers. So like every 5 tiers, the nodes are replaced with nodes that make it more challenging the higher the tier.

2. Make nodes for certain characters since you want to make more champions viable in AW. ( random buff node for VP or whatevs.)

3. Allow alliances to switch between the old and new AW if possible.

Amonthir

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Deadbyrd9 wrote: »

@GroundedWisdom that depends on how many kills. I've soloed 5* boss magiks so it's easy for a strong champ to get kills. More strategy will be involved using the right amount of diversity and strong defenders plus once alliance diversity is implemented here will be duplicate champs on defense

That may be the case for some, but the idea is to allow people to make an effort without having to be penalized or giving up when faced with an opponent much higher than them. There's no easy way to implement it and promote Diversity. Unless the Points are about 5 per KO, in which case it would be more for the interest factor than an actual game-changing metric.

There has to be a balance that can be found with Defender Kill points and Diversity (Assuming they refuse to back away from the Diversity thing). While DKP and DP are counter to one another, they can work together to make Defense strategic, as you have to decide between guaranteed DP or place a duplicate strong defender and hope to make more via DKP. Right now, having DP as the main stat, followed by Defender Rating, is Counter to the idea of Alliance Wars itself, as it ends with Wars being decided not by competitive abilities, but just by who ranked more champs up. My alliance just lost a war due to Defender Rating that we would have won had DKP still existed. We both got 100%, both good on DP, but there was absolutely 0 way for my team to win as long as the opponent put in a decent effort, simply because they had a few more points worth of Defender Rating. How is that indicative of a good war? We have beaten stronger alliances in the past by just being better at not dying to their Defenders, but if we go against them now, we automatically lose because they have one more r4 5* on Defense? Oh what fun.

Thawnim

Draco2199 wrote: »

I don't understand what the big problem with AW is, it's working fine after fixing the kill points. Everyone is crying about diversity although ALMOST EVERY SINGLE PERSON WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT ALL THE MYSTIC DEFENDERS EVERYWHERE. Kabam gives you what you asked for and makes it a penalty for placing all mystic and no ones happy still. I like it, its working fine. You want to win 100% and be diverse. Enough said.

You miss the main point, probably cause you are too busy breaking the terms of service and playing other people's accounts. The main point is that a system that rewards diversity still limits the freedom to choose, mainly the freedom to choose if you want to place a tough defense and try to stonewall the other opponent. A war system that rewards defender kills and defender diversity works best for everyone.

Skellington

Draco2199 wrote: »

I don't understand what the big problem with AW is, it's working fine after fixing the kill points.

You pretty much named the big problem? You're aware that by removing these kill points anyone can revive, thus lowering the skill ceil. Not only that but Kabam hasn't shown any willingness to cooperate with the community and I believe they haven't said anything about defender kills coming back?

Draco2199 wrote: »

Everyone is crying about diversity.

No one is crying about the diversity BUT most of us are questioning about how the diversity was implemented. It doesn't make any sense not to test this system before putting it into the game. It doesn't make any sense to not give us any rank down tickets when we all ranked our strongest defensive champions.

Draco2199 wrote: »

. Kabam gives you what you asked for and makes it a penalty for placing all mystic.

Have they now? All I've seen are the promises and lies they keep feeding us. The community had TONS of good suggestions how to fix MD and were more than happy to share it.

Draco2199 wrote: »

I like it, its working fine.

You're entitled to your opinion and I respect that. However, as someone who likes to play games competitively against another players, the new AW just isn't satisfying enough.

DD2

Suggestions for AW:

THE GAME HAS TO BE BALANCED.

1.0 was balanced.

It sucked facing an endless string of NCs, Hypes, Magiks, and Mordos but that's the breaks!

1.0 valued the integrity of the game. Skill mattered because losing counted, defender effectiveness mattered. People had a good reason to work hard in this game, to improve their skills and find and develop effective defenders.

With 2.0, NOTHING MATTERS NOW. Not skill, not defender effectiveness. Now there's NO REASON TO INVEST IN THIS GAME. Hard work isn't encouraged, and now it's all meaningless.

FAL7EN

No they're not coming back