15.0 Alliance Wars Update Discussion Thread

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  • bensonk2bensonk2 Posts: 14
    Has it been CLEARLY defined anywhere if this next AW has diversity based on BG or Alliance?? Depending which thread you read... most seem to indicate it will be changing to Alliance... but they are "working on it". We are in placement phase right now... would kinda be nice to know...
  • R4GER4GE Posts: 1,530 ★★★★
    bensonk2 wrote: »
    Has it been CLEARLY defined anywhere if this next AW has diversity based on BG or Alliance?? Depending which thread you read... most seem to indicate it will be changing to Alliance... but they are "working on it". We are in placement phase right now... would kinda be nice to know...

    Still per BG. We are supposed to get notified when its changed
  • @Kabam Miike So can we safely conclude that this iteration of AW is just a very ill conceived idea? Defender diversity across the entire alliance is just so disappointing. I can maybe see per Battlegroup. But c'mon, 150 unique champions?! The community consensus is: give us the old AW back.
  • MagnataurMagnataur Posts: 32
    edited September 2017
    every changes like this makes me think about quiting the game ... is it really that hard to be much more creative about making this game a better one ? instead of showing that you guys are just after dollar dollar dollar ...
    players willing to spend money on an enjoyable game , not a game with a dollar sign in front ... hope the next update fixes everything .
    btw , thx for working on the contest so far !!!
  • HosemaniaHosemania Posts: 17
    Amonthir wrote: »
    Agree, keep Defender Kills. Give us a preview of map and nodes so we can discuss them, and you can make adjustments before it goes live. Don't pull the 'but we like surprises!' thing, this is need to know, need to discuss information. Make double and triple and double-triple sure the portals function correctly.

    Unfortunately, there won't be any more information on Nodes made available at this time. Sorry guys, but you're going to have to wait and see! We've gone through many revisions on them already to ensure that they are not too punishing, and that they are enjoyable to play, while still sticking to that goal of playing up Champion archetypes.

    If everyone stopped fighting because they lost a fight on there first match, they get booted from their alliance. Removing defender kills has nothing to do with encouraging a player to keep fighting. I am sorry but if you stink and can't fight you really do not belong on an alliance.
    rwhack wrote: »
    stzda79co5mt.png
    Roughly translated, we want you to keep spending after you die. Dance monkey dance.

    If your feelings were hurt because you died on your first fight, you really do not belong on an alliance. Most of the people that play this game are grown ups so please do not insult our intelligence by telling us defender kills are going away since they hurt someone feelings. This is a war and a war has winners and losers. This is war and if you can't handle losing then you don't belong on an alliance. Chances are that person will be booted anyway since they can't fight. Let's face the facts the new system only benefits the top alliances since they can have 150 diversified defenders plus have a higher defender rating (which will be the tie breaker). The system is not about skill anymore since lower alliances really can't win once the top alliances understands how diversity really works. It is a horrible system and so many players have already quit since AW is not really fun anymore. By the time Kabam understands this it will too late.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 508 ★★★
    Husky54 wrote: »
    Anonymous wrote: »
    My only complaint about war before was top 50 or 100 rewards were not indicative of the difficulty to win. Winning or losing to mmxiv or iso8a or xilem should grant much higher rewards than a victory in tier 2 or 3.

    This doesn't make any sense at all. Wanna get rewards you have to win.

    If you have played in top 20 it makes perfect sense. Fighting them is much more difficult than fighting a lower tier alliance. Therefore it should reward higher
  • Just to clarify, when they said Defender Diversity depends on each unique champ, you'll get more points by not having more than one of the same champ in war? Even the ones that absolutely suck as defenders?
  • zero7 wrote: »
    sirlogan1 wrote: »
    Just to clarify, when they said Defender Diversity depends on each unique champ, you'll get more points by not having more than one of the same champ in war? Even the ones that absolutely suck as defenders?

    yep

    Thanks bro, I appreciate it
  • wSWeaponXwSWeaponX Posts: 366 ★★
    Corpsman wrote: »
    This game team is a joke. Bugs, glitches, and dumb ideas that ruin the most fun part of the game. AQ is boring, AW used to be fun but know it's just who has the most diverse roster.

    I totally agree, my desire to play is basically gone.
  • JaffacakedJaffacaked Posts: 1,416 ★★★★
    Has anyone actually fought a war and watched people quit fighting with two heathly champs simply because they lost one and had this "feeling of defeat" that @Kabam Miike states multiple times is the impetus for this new system? It seems to me like we got a broken AW as a result of trying to solve a problem that didn't actually exist. Even if I am wrong, which I doubt, the cure is worse than the disease.

    Watch this new iteration of aw will tie into them bringing relics to the contest in the very near future. I can already see them having things like boost your defence health an attack by 20% etc.like some one else mentioned they have already stated talking about them in the motion comics an how we know nothing of the battle realm an the previous fighters an their relics
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,662 ★★★★★
    Has anyone actually fought a war and watched people quit fighting with two heathly champs simply because they lost one and had this "feeling of defeat" that @Kabam Miike states multiple times is the impetus for this new system? It seems to me like we got a broken AW as a result of trying to solve a problem that didn't actually exist. Even if I am wrong, which I doubt, the cure is worse than the disease.

    It's a real issue. To the point where people were more concerned about not giving the Opponent Kills than Attacking.
  • Has anyone actually fought a war and watched people quit fighting with two heathly champs simply because they lost one and had this "feeling of defeat" that @Kabam Miike states multiple times is the impetus for this new system? It seems to me like we got a broken AW as a result of trying to solve a problem that didn't actually exist. Even if I am wrong, which I doubt, the cure is worse than the disease.

    I'm sure it happened. In a game with a million people, *everything* happens. The question is whether every problem that happens is worth solving. I'm 100% certain that more players have gotten upset over losing a war than quit fighting while they still had live attackers. That's a problem you accept if you want to make a competition.

    The rules of 14.0 AW did discourage players from fighting hopeless fights more than once. In 15.0, now they fight hopeless fights three times and then give up when they are completely dead. The cost/benefit analysis of the 15.0 changes depend on whether you are a game designer that thinks the second situation is materially better than the first. I happen to think it is a distinction without a difference. I also think the probability that more players like the new system than the old one is extremely low. And what's more, if I'm correct about the way the new equilibrium will diffuse throughout the playerbase, it actually isn't as bad today as it will eventually become, because not all alliances have fully learned the ramifications of the diversity changes yet. I've only seen a few wars since the changes and we aren't facing fully optimized diverse defenses every time yet. A fully optimized defense placement isn't easy to coordinate in an alliance that isn't used to that sort of dictatorial placement.

    But the question isn't whether the problem actually happened or not. The problem is whether the problem was worth tackling, and whether the devs understood how to isolate the critical core of the problem without eviscerating the point of having Alliance War in the first place. The evidence suggests whoever made the changes doesn't understand, on a game theoretical level, what the reason for alliance war is. Some problems you can fix. Some you are supposed to have and you shouldn't touch. If you are trying to excise the competition from a competitive event, which the current changes do, you don't understand what you are doing. Players that complain about the competition being too competitive are a problem you are supposed to generally either ignore, or address superficially.

    Sometimes you are, in fact, supposed to ignore the players.
  • Sha59Sha59 Posts: 36
    HQ101 wrote: »
    So, just wanna share my experience with how its been preparing for Diversity.

    First, its taken 3 days to gather all the useful info, figure out who can be duplicated and who can't and then assign everyone to a ton of champs. All the while, getting mountains of resistance and confusion from the members of my alliance. All in all, it was a colossal pain in the arse.

    But, we have every champ represented except Classic Ultron and Thanos. We even have Kang. But honestly, it's still left us ALL with a very EMPTY feeling...and here is why...

    We spent YEARS, money and resources making informed decisions on the BEST champs to bring up as AW Defenders. Spent time bringing up their signatures. Tweaking our masteries just right. Choosing other champs that have Synergy with them. All to create the Ultimate AW Defense Team..

    AND NONE OF IT EVEN MATTERS ANYMORE.

    Synergy doesn't matter. Our Defenders don't matter. Our R5 Champs Don't matter.

    The only STUPID THING that matters anymore, is if we FILL IN ALL THE BLANKS.

    And that's all that it is folks. That is entirely what war has been reduced to. No strategy. Just making sure all the boxes are checked.

    To top it ALL off, the Ultimate Insult is when some players are bringing super low ranked teams, simply because they have MOST of the newer and rarer champs unranked yet.

    We are truly being whizzed on and told its raining. Diversity in NO WAY benefits us. The only one it could possibly benefit is the one that profits from us getting all these new champs to insure Diversity.

    Years? Wow, where you playing pre beta or something?

    R5 champs matter, the more diverse your champs are at R5, and 5* R3 R4 the more chance you have to win.

    I dont want to educate people on the other stuff, if you gus cannot figure things out then whatever, but this post is incorrect in so many ways.
  • OnlyOneAboveAllOnlyOneAboveAll Posts: 383 ★★
    Sha59 wrote: »
    HQ101 wrote: »
    So, just wanna share my experience with how its been preparing for Diversity.

    First, its taken 3 days to gather all the useful info, figure out who can be duplicated and who can't and then assign everyone to a ton of champs. All the while, getting mountains of resistance and confusion from the members of my alliance. All in all, it was a colossal pain in the arse.

    But, we have every champ represented except Classic Ultron and Thanos. We even have Kang. But honestly, it's still left us ALL with a very EMPTY feeling...and here is why...

    We spent YEARS, money and resources making informed decisions on the BEST champs to bring up as AW Defenders. Spent time bringing up their signatures. Tweaking our masteries just right. Choosing other champs that have Synergy with them. All to create the Ultimate AW Defense Team..

    AND NONE OF IT EVEN MATTERS ANYMORE.

    Synergy doesn't matter. Our Defenders don't matter. Our R5 Champs Don't matter.

    The only STUPID THING that matters anymore, is if we FILL IN ALL THE BLANKS.

    And that's all that it is folks. That is entirely what war has been reduced to. No strategy. Just making sure all the boxes are checked.

    To top it ALL off, the Ultimate Insult is when some players are bringing super low ranked teams, simply because they have MOST of the newer and rarer champs unranked yet.

    We are truly being whizzed on and told its raining. Diversity in NO WAY benefits us. The only one it could possibly benefit is the one that profits from us getting all these new champs to insure Diversity.

    Years? Wow, where you playing pre beta or something?

    R5 champs matter, the more diverse your champs are at R5, and 5* R3 R4 the more chance you have to win.

    I dont want to educate people on the other stuff, if you gus cannot figure things out then whatever, but this post is incorrect in so many ways.

    He is actually the one that is correct. People are winning wars by placing 3 star champ in their defence against high ranking alliances. You sir are the one with your information mixed up. Any vet that has been playing since beta or day one of release knows what HQ is talking about is 100% correct. Thousands of dollars down the drain. None of it matters anymore.
  • JaffacakedJaffacaked Posts: 1,416 ★★★★
    Sha59 wrote: »
    HQ101 wrote: »
    So, just wanna share my experience with how its been preparing for Diversity.

    First, its taken 3 days to gather all the useful info, figure out who can be duplicated and who can't and then assign everyone to a ton of champs. All the while, getting mountains of resistance and confusion from the members of my alliance. All in all, it was a colossal pain in the arse.

    But, we have every champ represented except Classic Ultron and Thanos. We even have Kang. But honestly, it's still left us ALL with a very EMPTY feeling...and here is why...

    We spent YEARS, money and resources making informed decisions on the BEST champs to bring up as AW Defenders. Spent time bringing up their signatures. Tweaking our masteries just right. Choosing other champs that have Synergy with them. All to create the Ultimate AW Defense Team..

    AND NONE OF IT EVEN MATTERS ANYMORE.

    Synergy doesn't matter. Our Defenders don't matter. Our R5 Champs Don't matter.

    The only STUPID THING that matters anymore, is if we FILL IN ALL THE BLANKS.

    And that's all that it is folks. That is entirely what war has been reduced to. No strategy. Just making sure all the boxes are checked.

    To top it ALL off, the Ultimate Insult is when some players are bringing super low ranked teams, simply because they have MOST of the newer and rarer champs unranked yet.

    We are truly being whizzed on and told its raining. Diversity in NO WAY benefits us. The only one it could possibly benefit is the one that profits from us getting all these new champs to insure Diversity.

    Years? Wow, where you playing pre beta or something?

    R5 champs matter, the more diverse your champs are at R5, and 5* R3 R4 the more chance you have to win.

    I dont want to educate people on the other stuff, if you gus cannot figure things out then whatever, but this post is incorrect in so many ways.
    I would try to educate yourself on spelling before trying to educate them on other stuff.
  • linuxlinux Posts: 262
    Sha59 wrote: »
    HQ101 wrote: »
    So, just wanna share my experience with how its been preparing for Diversity.

    First, its taken 3 days to gather all the useful info, figure out who can be duplicated and who can't and then assign everyone to a ton of champs. All the while, getting mountains of resistance and confusion from the members of my alliance. All in all, it was a colossal pain in the arse.

    But, we have every champ represented except Classic Ultron and Thanos. We even have Kang. But honestly, it's still left us ALL with a very EMPTY feeling...and here is why...

    We spent YEARS, money and resources making informed decisions on the BEST champs to bring up as AW Defenders. Spent time bringing up their signatures. Tweaking our masteries just right. Choosing other champs that have Synergy with them. All to create the Ultimate AW Defense Team..

    AND NONE OF IT EVEN MATTERS ANYMORE.

    Synergy doesn't matter. Our Defenders don't matter. Our R5 Champs Don't matter.

    The only STUPID THING that matters anymore, is if we FILL IN ALL THE BLANKS.

    And that's all that it is folks. That is entirely what war has been reduced to. No strategy. Just making sure all the boxes are checked.

    To top it ALL off, the Ultimate Insult is when some players are bringing super low ranked teams, simply because they have MOST of the newer and rarer champs unranked yet.

    We are truly being whizzed on and told its raining. Diversity in NO WAY benefits us. The only one it could possibly benefit is the one that profits from us getting all these new champs to insure Diversity.

    Years? Wow, where you playing pre beta or something?

    R5 champs matter, the more diverse your champs are at R5, and 5* R3 R4 the more chance you have to win.

    I dont want to educate people on the other stuff, if you gus cannot figure things out then whatever, but this post is incorrect in so many ways.

    He is actually the one that is correct. People are winning wars by placing 3 star champ in their defence against high ranking alliances. You sir are the one with your information mixed up. Any vet that has been playing since beta or day one of release knows what HQ is talking about is 100% correct. Thousands of dollars down the drain. None of it matters anymore.

    I think the truth is a mixture. Our last war we won because we placed 150 diverse champs and they placed 148. But they blew us away with prestige, and once they fix their last diversity mistakes (the two dupes), they'd beat us on defender rating -- so you should care about ranks and synergies under the current system, but it only starts to matter once you've figure out how to hit 150 diversity (easy if tedious and soul-crushing). Right now it's actually easy to get to 150 -- because it's per BG rules, you just need to figure out 50 decent champs and assign each player a set of champs to bring.

    ... but that brings me to my latest update: one person in our alliance screwed up and placed in the wrong BG. 4 duplicates! In t2 (our current match-up) we're screwed before the war begins -- we already know we're going to lose against an opponent that placed correctly and plays adequately.
  • VoluntarisVoluntaris Posts: 1,133 ★★★
    Sha59 wrote: »
    Years? Wow, where you playing pre beta or something?

    R5 champs matter, the more diverse your champs are at R5, and 5* R3 R4 the more chance you have to win.

    I dont want to educate people on the other stuff, if you gus cannot figure things out then whatever, but this post is incorrect in so many ways.

    yup @Sha59 is right , 5/50 and 4/55 champs do still matter, since with diversity currently being per BG it is VERY easy to organize perfect 150 diverse champions, meaning, when both teams 100% (which is par for the course around 2700+ war rating) the win all comes down to defender rating.
  • Mcord11758Mcord11758 Posts: 826 ★★★
    Has anyone actually fought a war and watched people quit fighting with two heathly champs simply because they lost one and had this "feeling of defeat" that @Kabam Miike states multiple times is the impetus for this new system? It seems to me like we got a broken AW as a result of trying to solve a problem that didn't actually exist. Even if I am wrong, which I doubt, the cure is worse than the disease.

    Never but I certainly have sat there and watched people revive time after time.

    I really am baffled at this point. The only thing I can come up with is they want people to waste rank up items on **** champs and grind and buy crystals.
  • VoluntarisVoluntaris Posts: 1,133 ★★★
    Mcord11758 wrote: »


    Now that they wrapped this gem up maybe they can get back to correcting war

    wonder of those peeps hanging upside down were the "beta testers" of the new Diversity Wars ... would make a little more sense
This discussion has been closed.