15.0 Alliance Wars Update Discussion Thread

Summoners!

Our 15.0 Update is just about a week away, and with it, it's bringing a huge change to Alliance Wars! Check out everything you need to know about the Brand New Map, Scoring Changes, and new boosts in the Loyalty Store here: http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/17902/15-0-alliance-wars-update/

Comments

Thawnim

Hulk_77 wrote: »

That's a good move.

I don't see how you can avoid not adding kills back still. Otherwise it will be 150 diversity vs 150 diversity and come down to PI every war.

@Kabam Miike I think this is a step in the right direction, but let skill determine the winner. The point above is exactly right. Points for defender kills would help make war more skill-based and also allow an alliance freedom to better decide their strategy for defense. Do I have my entire alliance place duped Magik, duped NCs, duped Juggernauts and risk losing diversity points but know that if I can stop them defensively I might still win? Defender kill points would at least give us this freedom back.

R4GE

It was clear diversity was here to stay, so I'm glad its just gonna stay per BG to avoid a major spreadsheet war.

The only problem is no actual change has been made yet and we are still left to suffer a PI war. No frustrations have been removed to make AW enjoyable and we are to continue on in the dark.

chunkyb

All this time to do nothing. How many meetings did this take?

Can we cut placement phase to 2 hours and do away with attack phase altogether? There's really no need for it anymore. Let's just measure pi, pass out awards and move on to the next one.

andrade5184

R4GE wrote: »

It was clear diversity was here to stay, so I'm glad its just gonna stay per BG to avoid a major spreadsheet war.

The only problem is no actual change has been made yet and we are still left to suffer a PI war. No frustrations have been removed to make AW enjoyable and we are to continue on in the dark.

i completely agree. you guys have enough data to realize that this war is trash. balance the point system better so we can have a war that isnt based solely on pi

axelelf_1

We're getting ready to lose a war where we both 100%, they have diversity, and we have 80 defender kills to their 28. That's insane that this can happen. Talk about buying a war.

RagamugginGunner

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Hey Everybody,

Thank you for waiting patiently as we worked behind the scenes to continue to improve the new Alliance Wars. We’re still making some adjustments, and want to re-emphasize that this will be an iterative process - one that we are dedicated to. We have greatly appreciated all of the constructive feedback Summoners have provided us with, as well as those that have urged their fellow players to grant us some time to look into both your comments and the way that Alliance Wars is currently running.

At this time, we can say that we have made a decision to keep Defender Diversity dependant on individual Battlegroups, and not based on the entire Alliance, as originally intended. This is something that many of you have requested, and something that we agree is better for players. This way, we’re shifting away from having to focus on your entire Alliance’s rosters, and to only those you are playing with directly.

We are still working on some things behind the scenes to ensure that we hit our goals that we wanted to achieve with this new iteration of Alliance wars, including the fact that Defender Diversity is meant to be a tie breaker, and not deciding the war. We will continue to make more iterations and adjustments until we have fulfilled our goals of making Alliance Wars more fun and engaging, as well as making the mode more varied, and to address concerns you all brought up.

Stay tuned! We will have more information to share with you next week!

Was one of your goals forcing officers to create spreadsheets and track down everyone's roster to max diversity? Because that is exactly what has happened. It's making my, and many other officer's, lives miserable. I want to play a game where I can create the best offense and defense. I do not want to have to spend hours on a spreadsheet and looking at rosters because of a gimmick.

TillerTheKiller

Must have not liked the idea of not having 3 dorm bosses...

FAL7EN

Well I might be the only one that's happy defender diversity is staying...They made a good move Mike! Lol

hurricant

So basically, no changes. Defender kills need to return. Diversity needs to count less. So far Kabam has not made any meaningful progress toward fixing war. If a 9m alliance gets matched up against a 14m alliance like we did this war, we have 0% chance to win. We have absolutely no way of winning because both teams will place 150 unique defenders but the 14m alliance will have a higher defender rating. Both groups can 100% all 3 BG and we will lose. It literally doesn't matter what we do. In the old system, we may have won based on defender kills for having smarter placement. In this system, it doesn't matter what we do.

THIS IS NOT FAIR. THIS IS NOT WAR.

It's a battle of who ranks their champs higher. It's not our fault we are matched up against an alliance with higher rated defenders. We could have more skill than them. We could place champs in a smarter way based on the nodes. But we will still lose war because they have played the game longer and have had more time to rank up their champions. How is this war? How is this competitive? How is this fun?

unknown

This content has been removed.

andrade5184

hurricant wrote: »

So basically, not changes. Defender kills need to return. Diversity needs to count less. So far Kabam has not made any meaningful progress toward fixing war. If a 9m alliance gets matched up against a 14m alliance like we did this war, we have 0% chance to win. We have absolutely no way of winning because both teams will place 150 unique defenders but the 14m alliance will have a higher defender rating. Both groups can 100% all 3 BG and we will lose. It literally doesn't matter what we do. In the old system, we may have won based on defender kills for having smarter placement. In this system, it doesn't matter what we do.

THIS IS NOT FAIR. THIS IS NOT WAR.

It's a battle of who ranks their champs higher. It's not our fault we are matched up against an alliance with higher rated defenders. We could have more skill than them. We could place champs in a smarter way based on the nodes. But we will still lose war because they have played the game longer and have had more time to rank up their champions. How is this war? How is this competitive? How is this fun?

dont forget to add that the rewards are total **** as well so ya war is garbage

BDougH

Not sure if this has been discussed or not yet, but what about making diversity a multiplier or divisor of a score? It would make the most sense to have it apply to a score for defender kills so this idea would require them bringing back those points (which as far as I can tell, none of the players are opposed to).

Here is how I think it could work:
(it's not a perfect example but just something to get the idea out there)

If diversity is a multiplier on defender kill points based on actual diversity compared to possible diversity. In a 3 Battlegroup war, compare a defense that is not very diverse (diversity score of 60) that gets 100 kills against a defense that is fully diverse (diversity score of 150) that only gets 50 kills. Let's say that defender kills are 50 points each.

The first defense would get 5,000 points (50 per kill x 100 kills) for their defender kills which would then be multiplied by 40% (60 diversity / 150 possible diversity) so they would end up with 2,000 points for their defender kills. The second defense would get only 2,500 points (50 per kill x 50 kills) for their defender kills but since they got 150 diversity out of a possible 150, their score would be multiplied by 100% giving them 2,500.

Basically the purpose of this system would be to force alliances to weigh their options. They can go with a less diverse defense and get more kills that would end up being worth less per kill or they can go with a more diverse defense that might not get as many kills but each kill would be worth more.

Again, this isn't perfect, just still an idea on how it could be different. Figured I'd add it to the discussion.

RehctansBew

So by keeping Diversity BG based, you have now made sure that everyone has 150. The idea behind it being alliance based at least brought some skill back in as no one could max diversity and we would be able to bring our better AWD Defense. Well played. The unit spend must be nice for you.

hurricant

RehctansBew wrote: »

So by keeping Diversity BG based, you have now made sure that everyone has 150. The idea behind it being alliance based at least brought some skill back in as no one could max diversity and we would be able to bring our better AWD Defense. Well played. The unit spend must be nice for you.

And now if 2 people have the same champ in a bg, he can't be used twice. Whereas if it's for the whole alliance, they will inevitably be dupes and more than one person per bg can use the same champ. This is even worse now

andrade5184

hurricant wrote: »

RehctansBew wrote: »

So by keeping Diversity BG based, you have now made sure that everyone has 150. The idea behind it being alliance based at least brought some skill back in as no one could max diversity and we would be able to bring our better AWD Defense. Well played. The unit spend must be nice for you.

And now if 2 people have the same champ in a bg, he can't be used twice. Whereas if it's for the whole alliance, they will inevitably be dupes and more than one person per bg can use the same champ. This is even worse now

exactly why it warrents rdt

hurricant

Kabam please please listen to your player base. Give us defender kills and lower diversity points. What do you get by making everyone angry??

andrade5184

pretty sure they get satisfaction and a pay day or it wouldnt make any sense for them to do

Heywood

Kabam Miike wrote: »

At this time, we can say that we have made a decision to keep Defender Diversity dependant on individual Battlegroups, and not based on the entire Alliance, as originally intended.This is something that many of you have requested, and something that we agree is better for players.

WHAT? Who wanted that? No one wants that. This is a HUGE problem for players who have ranked up specific champs for defense and can no longer place them.

At least if it was across the whole alliance, that allowed some duplicate champs. We have 2 guys with a 5/50 Dormammu who can not place him in their battlegroup because another player has a 5* version. I can't place my 5/50 Nightcrawler... what are you planning to do to compensate the people who wasted resources on ranking up these now worthless champs?

In our current war, we are faced against an alliance with a rating 5 million higher than we are.
We each have 150 for diversity, so we literally can not possibly win this war. Why can't you see how broken that is?

Add back defender kills and lower diversity points. Placing a 2* champ on defense should never be more valuable than a duplicated champ who gets a kill.

Defender kills = 50 pts
Defender diversity = 50 pts

That will completely fix the current scoring issues.

axelelf_1

We just lost a war with 96 defender kills vs. 28. They bought the war and will win because diversity. Stupid stupid system.

Jon8299

Heywood wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

At this time, we can say that we have made a decision to keep Defender Diversity dependant on individual Battlegroups, and not based on the entire Alliance, as originally intended.This is something that many of you have requested, and something that we agree is better for players.

WHAT? Who wanted that? No one wants that. This is a HUGE problem for players who have ranked up specific champs for defense and can no longer place them.

At least if it was across the whole alliance, that allowed some duplicate champs. We have 2 guys with a 5/50 Dormammu who can not place him in their battlegroup because another player has a 5* version. I can't place my 5/50 Nightcrawler... what are you planning to do to compensate the people who wasted resources on ranking up these now worthless champs?

In our current war, we are faced against an alliance with a rating 5 million higher than we are.
We each have 150 for diversity, so we literally can not possibly win this war. Why can't you see how broken that is?

Add back defender kills and lower diversity points. Placing a 2* champ on defense should never be more valuable than a duplicated champ who gets a kill.

Defender kills = 50 pts
Defender diversity = 50 pts

That will completely fix the current scoring issues.

I think you misunderstand. If diversity is by group not the whole alliance you can have 1 Nightcrawler in each group and still maximize on diversity, if it's by the whole alliance only 1 Nightcrawler will count as diversity out of 3.

andrade5184

Jon8299 wrote: »

Heywood wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

At this time, we can say that we have made a decision to keep Defender Diversity dependant on individual Battlegroups, and not based on the entire Alliance, as originally intended.This is something that many of you have requested, and something that we agree is better for players.

WHAT? Who wanted that? No one wants that. This is a HUGE problem for players who have ranked up specific champs for defense and can no longer place them.

At least if it was across the whole alliance, that allowed some duplicate champs. We have 2 guys with a 5/50 Dormammu who can not place him in their battlegroup because another player has a 5* version. I can't place my 5/50 Nightcrawler... what are you planning to do to compensate the people who wasted resources on ranking up these now worthless champs?

In our current war, we are faced against an alliance with a rating 5 million higher than we are.
We each have 150 for diversity, so we literally can not possibly win this war. Why can't you see how broken that is?

Add back defender kills and lower diversity points. Placing a 2* champ on defense should never be more valuable than a duplicated champ who gets a kill.

Defender kills = 50 pts
Defender diversity = 50 pts

That will completely fix the current scoring issues.

I think you misunderstand. If diversity is by group not the whole alliance you can have 1 Nightcrawler in each group and still maximize on diversity, if it's by the whole alliance only 1 Nightcrawler will count as diversity out of 3.

well since there is only a little over 100 champs in the game this is not entirely true

Heywood

Jon8299 wrote: »

Heywood wrote: »

I think you misunderstand. If diversity is by group not the whole alliance you can have 1 Nightcrawler in each group and still maximize on diversity, if it's by the whole alliance only 1 Nightcrawler will count as diversity out of 3.

No, I get how it works. There are 107 unique playable champs in the game. (my alliance has 105) which means you can place duplicates across the alliance as long as we place all 105 unique champs first.

andrade5184

so with that being said per bg diversity is actually worst because u have to get 150 in diversity every time no chance for 2 magiks in one bg

Jon8299

andrade5184 wrote: »

Jon8299 wrote: »

Heywood wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

At this time, we can say that we have made a decision to keep Defender Diversity dependant on individual Battlegroups, and not based on the entire Alliance, as originally intended.This is something that many of you have requested, and something that we agree is better for players.

WHAT? Who wanted that? No one wants that. This is a HUGE problem for players who have ranked up specific champs for defense and can no longer place them.

At least if it was across the whole alliance, that allowed some duplicate champs. We have 2 guys with a 5/50 Dormammu who can not place him in their battlegroup because another player has a 5* version. I can't place my 5/50 Nightcrawler... what are you planning to do to compensate the people who wasted resources on ranking up these now worthless champs?

In our current war, we are faced against an alliance with a rating 5 million higher than we are.
We each have 150 for diversity, so we literally can not possibly win this war. Why can't you see how broken that is?

Add back defender kills and lower diversity points. Placing a 2* champ on defense should never be more valuable than a duplicated champ who gets a kill.

Defender kills = 50 pts
Defender diversity = 50 pts

That will completely fix the current scoring issues.

I think you misunderstand. If diversity is by group not the whole alliance you can have 1 Nightcrawler in each group and still maximize on diversity, if it's by the whole alliance only 1 Nightcrawler will count as diversity out of 3.

well since there is only a little over 100 champs in the game this is not entirely true

You can have a combined 150 diverse champs placed, the screenshots of the final stats page proves that.

Edit: Might actually be remembering that wrong. But you can have 50 diverse champs per group. It just means people have to use a combination of 3*, 4* and 5* which is really lame.

Jon8299

andrade5184 wrote: »

so with that being said per bg diversity is actually worst because u have to get 150 in diversity every time no chance for 2 magiks in one bg

If you want to max diversity, you can't have 2 Magiks anyways, not in the same BG or in different BGs. It doesn't matter.

SilverSurfer5

What they are saying is that each BG can place the exact same champs as long as inside each BG there is no duplicates. So BG1 BG2 and BG3 can all have a Magik, just not more than one per group. Is that right? @Kabam Miike

Heywood

Jon8299 wrote: »

andrade5184 wrote: »

so with that being said per bg diversity is actually worst because u have to get 150 in diversity every time no chance for 2 magiks in one bg

If you want to max diversity, you can't have 2 Magiks anyways, not in the same BG or in different BGs. It doesn't matter.

That isn't true. The scoring is by battlegroup.
You can place a Magik in Gruops 1, 2 and 3 and each will count as one unique defender.

SilverSurfer5

Defender diversity was supposed to allow us to use champs we never use. But "placing a champ" on defense is not using them. EVERY single person still attacks and "uses" the same champs as before. All this Defender Diversity does is put more money in YOUR WALLET because you want to force us to use items on USELESS champs. Please don't try to play the community as fools Kabam. Lets be honest about your intentions and find a better solution to the current pile of steaming horse manure you are currently calling AW.

Hulk_77

Indrick781 wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Hey Everybody,

Thank you for waiting patiently as we worked behind the scenes to continue to improve the new Alliance Wars. We’re still making some adjustments, and want to re-emphasize that this will be an iterative process - one that we are dedicated to. We have greatly appreciated all of the constructive feedback Summoners have provided us with, as well as those that have urged their fellow players to grant us some time to look into both your comments and the way that Alliance Wars is currently running.

At this time, we can say that we have made a decision to keep Defender Diversity dependant on individual Battlegroups, and not based on the entire Alliance, as originally intended. This is something that many of you have requested, and something that we agree is better for players. This way, we’re shifting away from having to focus on your entire Alliance’s rosters, and to only those you are playing with directly.

We are still working on some things behind the scenes to ensure that we hit our goals that we wanted to achieve with this new iteration of Alliance wars, including the fact that Defender Diversity is meant to be a tie breaker, and not deciding the war. We will continue to make more iterations and adjustments until we have fulfilled our goals of making Alliance Wars more fun and engaging, as well as making the mode more varied, and to address concerns you all brought up.

Stay tuned! We will have more information to share with you next week!

I'm not sure how Kabam doesn't understand how this works yet. Now that defender diversity is per BG, war will come down to defender rating. Skill still doesn't matter. This is basic logic. Roll AW back until you get it corrected. Stop making players pay for your mistakes. All you're doing is angering players at this point.

Yes, but your solution will come down to just diversity and people with Kang and Thanos will never lose. That isn't fair either.

The war needs a skill element. D kills is all I can come up with.

Jon8299

Heywood wrote: »

Jon8299 wrote: »

andrade5184 wrote: »

so with that being said per bg diversity is actually worst because u have to get 150 in diversity every time no chance for 2 magiks in one bg

If you want to max diversity, you can't have 2 Magiks anyways, not in the same BG or in different BGs. It doesn't matter.

That isn't true. The scoring is by battlegroup.
You can place a Magik in Gruops 1, 2 and 3 and each will count as one unique defender.

What I'm trying to say is, that it is better to have it per group. The people I was quoting earlier were saying it was better for diversity to be per whole alliance, One person said per group is worse cause you can't have 2 Magiks in it, either way you can't have 2 magiks per group. Hope this clarifies my statements.