DNA...your entire thesis kinda seems shot in the foot with the extreme difficulty of the nodes presented in the new war. They are....cruel to the point of insanity, honestly. That's not engaging, and they're likely gonna force a ton of players to 'give up'...not out of defender kills this time, but instead out of the sheer hopelessness of fighting the node. Some of the nodes there more or less require a single champion, otherwise the difficulty becomes absurd to a level of impossible. (Looking at you, bleed/spite/burden of might node.)
So the reason defender kills went is they don't want people to feel like they have to stop attacking after losing a fight an still having healthy champs left. However with these new nodes they have done the exact thing they were trying to stop(classic kabam). I've seen plenty of screenshot in different group chats of people just sat on nodes knowing they can't get past it an are unwilling to use precious items on such bs.
I don't understand why kabam don't get that they have taken all the fun out of war an are driving long time an new players away from the game. A few guys in our ally are leaving after AQ cos they need a break from this mess, again it's cos they are not having fun an the most enjoyable part of it(AW) has been ruined. Many others in other alliance's are also taking a break or I've even see a few just outright sell all their champs to make a clean break from the game.
Time to dust off the PS4 I think just in time for cod ww2,
Have you guys tested a hyperion/ md magik/ cable or any other full md champ on node 44 before releasing it? Cause only thing you can do there is just die.. I just fought a cyclops there and I needed to dodge 7 sp1 in a row just to decide to eat a sp3 and be done with it.. Cyclops wont one shot you most likely yet any of the above mentioned champs will.. NOTE THAT THIS NODE IS A BLEED & SPITE (18% POWER GAIN PER SECOND) NODE.. A go buy og vision and pots node basically.. On top of that it is a must do node in order to get to the boss as it boosts other lanes.
DNA...your entire thesis kinda seems shot in the foot with the extreme difficulty of the nodes presented in the new war. They are....cruel to the point of insanity, honestly. That's not engaging, and they're likely gonna force a ton of players to 'give up'...not out of defender kills this time, but instead out of the sheer hopelessness of fighting the node. Some of the nodes there more or less require a single champion, otherwise the difficulty becomes absurd to a level of impossible. (Looking at you, bleed/spite/burden of might node.)
If you happened to read @DNA3000's thesis, then you would see that this was the inevitable result based on his conjectures. He's been predicting this for a while now, as the only way to get everyone to not 100% the map (without having defender kills count) is to make the map so hard that they are unable to reach 100%.
So nope, he's still right. Hopefully his next prediction is one that has a brighter future for MCOC, because he's been on the money so far.
1. Restore map to the 1 week before state
2. Remove defender diversity, add instead a limit of 2 same defenders per BG (2 magik , 2 NC , etc) and award points based to that
3. Remove crit buff from dexterity lvl1 (No one wants it, Neither my grandma wants it)
4. Make defence rating steady (masteries and boosts should not count)
5. ADD BACK DEFENDERS KILLS
In Order to sum up , Firstly current map has ridiculous nodes which you clearly didnt test with specific masteries and or specific champs. Secondly, people claim previous map was not challenging because you forced us to use spider gwen in it. If you trully want to promote diversity you can star by removing the 5 black widow 5 Juggy 5 miles morales 5 uc from map 6. You can add spider gwen, karnak, and iron fist. That would do it.
Well done kabam. If your aim was to stop us getting 100% you've achieved it. We now have 2 guys dead at node 24 in 2 different battle groups. Should we tell them to revive some more? We don't want them feeling discouraged and giving up after all.
Can you confirm how long these new nodes will remain in place for your paying customers to test please, because then we can just not play AW until you realise what a monumentally stupid change this was.
Well done I truly believe you have effectively murdered war...I will not spend a dime on it..tell the "beta testers" fantastic job..they must be all the rich ones that can afford that stupid garbage..the love of this game for everyone is fading more and more with every **** update monthly your really killing a fantastic game..ONCE AGAIN GREAT JOB!!!!!
Not a fan of the new nodes. I do like a challenge but I feel frustration was added to the system, which eliminates the fun aspect of it all. I think its the combination of increased nodes along with a total of 5 mini bosses. In the original map I think I would have liked these nodes a lot better. The map was smaller and only had 2 mini bosses.
In its current state I am highly discouraged to use resources. Thats due in part to the cost in not being worth the final payout. The rewards are low when considering the cost of resources.
More of a personal opinion, I feel the addition of Mephisto has ruined AW for me. I have never been one to complain about a specific champ as a defender but I find Mephisto to be very discouraging. Insane regen, power gain, forced damage, and immune to the only single champ in the game who is of value against incinerate. Combine him with MD and its a rough experience. Maybe I am looking to far a head and playing a huge guessing game, but knowing he was in fact specifically designed to be an AW defender worries me of what's yet to come with new champs that can eliminate any enjoyment of war or making the rewards worth the effort and frustration.
@DNA3000 is the smartest one in this thread and good with numbers, maybe he/she can easily correct me on my next comment. But it would seem that if an alliance was able to acquire 6 total Mehisto's they could ignore some diversity and plant him as boss and all 5 mini's and easily shut down another alliance. I am guessing on that.
This isn't meant to be a crybaby comment, just trying to give feedback on my experience and perspective.
EDIT: Should add that this is an opinion based on Tier 2
Not a fan of the new nodes. I do like a challenge but I feel frustration was added to the system, which eliminates the fun aspect of it all. I think its the combination of increased nodes along with a total of 5 mini bosses. In the original map I think I would have liked these nodes a lot better. The map was smaller and only had 2 mini bosses.
In its current state I am highly discouraged to use resources. Thats due in part to the cost in not being worth the final payout. The rewards are low when considering the cost of resources....
Well said!!! I agree 1000%.
AW just isn't fun. Adding harder nodes; adding more empty space onto the Map, requiring more of our time and in-game-energy contradicts some of the other nonsense they tried to tell us about how we play the game. We're not buying it and Im certainly ot buying anything or spending any actual money on this game, which has become a farce.
Let me start by saying, BRAVO on the latest node buffs.
I feel like War 15.0 is finally getting to what it should be. Prior to this newest update, I had just discussed with our officers that the 15.0 update focusing on diversity had sucked all the fun out of AW and we even tossed around the idea of not running war at all until fixed. Well, let me say, that I feel like it is much improved and much more fun now.
With the new nodes, we went from 100% clear in both alliances to now neither of us clearing. Definitely not a cakewalk anymore like it used to be. It will actually require some strategy from us for the next war.
Also I'm seeing with this latest node update a reverting back to best defense and diversity being more of an afterthought rather than a "let's get our spreadsheet out and assign defenders for max diversity." That was a bore and it feels good again to be able to bring our best defenders and let diversity truly be only a tiebreaker instead of a game-winner.
I'd still like to see defender kills come back and count for something - maybe 5 points each or something.
My only beef right now is this: the portal after node 47 MUST be able to portal up to node 53. Currently only one portal can reach node 53 when all the rest can be reached by 2 or 3 portals. That can't be intended and if it was, it needs to be fixed to balance the map.
Other than that, thanks for listening and making the map harder and more strategic
Let me start by saying, BRAVO on the latest node buffs.
I feel like War 15.0 is finally getting to what it should be. Prior to this newest update, I had just discussed with our officers that the 15.0 update focusing on diversity had sucked all the fun out of AW and we even tossed around the idea of not running war at all until fixed. Well, let me say, that I feel like it is much improved and much more fun now.
With the new nodes, we went from 100% clear in both alliances to now neither of us clearing. Definitely not a cakewalk anymore like it used to be. It will actually require some strategy from us for the next war.
Also I'm seeing with this latest node update a reverting back to best defense and diversity being more of an afterthought rather than a "let's get our spreadsheet out and assign defenders for max diversity." That was a bore and it feels good again to be able to bring our best defenders and let diversity truly be only a tiebreaker instead of a game-winner.
I'd still like to see defender kills come back and count for something - maybe 5 points each or something.
My only beef right now is this: the portal after node 47 MUST be able to portal up to node 53. Currently only one portal can reach node 53 when all the rest can be reached by 2 or 3 portals. That can't be intended and if it was, it needs to be fixed to balance the map.
Other than that, thanks for listening and making the map harder and more strategic
Ok, feedback. Add defender kills. Nobody cares what you do with the nodes. You don't have to make defender kills 100 points or even 50 points because obviously that would defeat the purpose of diversity, but anywhere in the range of 10-25 points is ideal. Maybe 15ish because then roughly 3 defender kills = 1 diverse defender. That sounds like a decent sweet spot.
See you guys THINK that everyone hates the new system but really the only people on here are the ones that hate it. The people that like it don't come on here and they just play cuz they have no problem with the new system.
So don't think that EVERYONE hates the new update. Cuz that's not true
Yeah I actually just posted a long POSITIVE review of the newest AW update. I like it. Problem is everyone thinks they should be able to 100% the map ever time and get all whiney when they die. In a good war, one team should win decisively.
See you guys THINK that everyone hates the new system but really the only people on here are the ones that hate it. The people that like it don't come on here and they just play cuz they have no problem with the new system.
So don't think that EVERYONE hates the new update. Cuz that's not true
Yeah I actually just posted a long POSITIVE review of the newest AW update. I like it. Problem is everyone thinks they should be able to 100% the map ever time and get all whiney when they die. In a good war, one team should win decisively.
My alliance does 100% all 3 BG's every time ... no whining either.
See you guys THINK that everyone hates the new system but really the only people on here are the ones that hate it. The people that like it don't come on here and they just play cuz they have no problem with the new system.
So don't think that EVERYONE hates the new update. Cuz that's not true
Yeah I actually just posted a long POSITIVE review of the newest AW update. I like it. Problem is everyone thinks they should be able to 100% the map ever time and get all whiney when they die. In a good war, one team should win decisively.
If you read the thread you will see that everyone believes that everyone SHOULDN'T 100%. Thats all this thread has mainly been about, so not at all sure what you're choosing to go on about. *EDIT: Not all its been about, but one of the main topics
As far as negative and positive reviews its all gonna be determined on opinions based on what tiers players are in. So its important to mention tiers when giving feedback since the nodes are different.
Kabam just doesn't want to believe that no matter how hard the nodes are, higher tiers will still 100% the maps no matter what. It it worth it to spend some items to win if you know your defender rating is higher than the opponent. All this making nodes harder is futile. It just doesn't matter what Kabam does with the nodes. There HAS to be something rewarding good defenders.
Yeah I actually just posted a long POSITIVE review of the newest AW update. I like it. Problem is everyone thinks they should be able to 100% the map ever time and get all whiney when they die. In a good war, one team should win decisively.
Speaking as a tier 1 player, we don't expect to 100% the map x3 at all actually. We hardly ever used to in old AW and it was only Kabams changes that made that a regular thing. It's certainly nice to be able to but nobody is going to "whine" that they can't. There's a large divide however between clearing the map and getting stuck on a node on the first section because you don't have the right attackers to beat it. There was never anything like these new nodes in the old war and they serve only to fix a problem that kabam created themselves. It's not a 'tweak' to the difficulty, it's a potential road block. I'm sure they don't cause anywhere near as much trouble in tier 7 and your feedback suggests you welcome them, which is fine. But let's agree that you won't label those in expert tier who are frustrated with this ongoing nonsense as whiney and I won't tell you that your AW experience is a joke compared to tier 1 where you'd face rank 4 defenders on nodes with double the health boost, double the attack boost, double the regen and nice little additions like limber.
Yeah I actually just posted a long POSITIVE review of the newest AW update. I like it. Problem is everyone thinks they should be able to 100% the map ever time and get all whiney when they die. In a good war, one team should win decisively.
Speaking as a tier 1 player, we don't expect to 100% the map x3 at all actually. We hardly ever used to in old AW and it was only Kabams changes that made that a regular thing. It's certainly nice to be able to but nobody is going to "whine" that they can't. There's a large divide however between clearing the map and getting stuck on a node on the first section because you don't have the right attackers to beat it. There was never anything like these new nodes in the old war and they serve only to fix a problem that kabam created themselves. It's not a 'tweak' to the difficulty, it's a potential road block. I'm sure they don't cause anywhere near as much trouble in tier 7 and your feedback suggests you welcome them, which is fine. But let's agree that you won't label those in expert tier who are frustrated with this ongoing nonsense as whiney and I won't tell you that your AW experience is a joke compared to tier 1 where you'd face rank 4 defenders on nodes with double the health boost, double the attack boost, double the regen and nice little additions like limber.
Except there are people on this very page 114 who said "we will still 100% it." So the current expectation of some is to 100% it every time. I agree that the old Map was better but that's a moot point. Also I've been as high as Tier 4 War recently for perspective. I do agree with the roadboack point. But that comes down partly to strategic placement. And not every alliance i've fought recently has had anything close to a clue of what champs to place where. I guess I'm just glad to see a scaling away from the absolute necessity of diversity to a bit more skill based.
But I'd also be glad to see all degen nodes and stun immune nodes go away because they are just not fun at all.
I didn't mean to imply that all T1 alliances were whiney either. But there's certainly enough whiney people on this thread.
No one here is really whiney, or whiny. They have legitimate concerns and issues.
The old map being better is NOT moot, unless you operate under the assumption that Kabam does as Kabam does and damn the rest, which is looking more and more the case.
If people do not speak then we will have no one to blame but ourselves for what we get. At least we can absolve ourselves of that indignity.
If the map can be cleared 100% it will be. If it will be then the deciding factor is rating and rating alone. As a programmer you must assume that if it can happen it will happen. And if your system isn't designed to handle the basic assumption that rating has been, can be and will continue to be the sole deciding factor in wars you have missed the mark and that's not a great time for those involved.
The point is that it's more challenging. Which was the goal of the current changes. It's obvious that Defender Rating is meant to be significant because it's the highest metric currently, albeit less Points. The goal was to add more challenge to the Map, and I'd say it was pretty successful. Perhaps not for all Allies.
The goal was not what was needed to fix AW is kind of the point.
They can increase these nodes to an exponential degree, the fact remains that it will be cleared 100% and if two alliances clear it 100% then the sole tiebreaker is defender rating, aka, how much you can spend. It's bad design from a fundamental level in a head to head competitive game or mode of a game.
The goal in a War is to try and 100%, yes. It's up to the Ally to gauge if they want to spend to do that or not. That's always been an option. Defender Rating is a metric. As such, it's going to have some effect on the outcome. It couldn't be any less significant than a tiebreaker. If the belief that what is needed to fix Wars is a revert, I'm afraid that goal may not come to pass.
The goal in a War is to try and 100%, yes. It's up to the Ally to gauge if they want to spend to do that or not. That's always been an option. Defender Rating is a metric. As such, it's going to have some effect on the outcome. It couldn't be any less significant than a tiebreaker. If the belief that what is needed to fix Wars is a revert, I'm afraid that goal may not come to pass.
Have you lost a war by 15 points because they have a slightly higher defender rating then you do? What about when your defense vastly out does their defense in effectiveness; yielding you 30+ more kills?
Defender rating can not be the metric at which wars are won and lost, that means that nobody has a chance at winning unless they spend units to run bigger boosts.
Comments
I don't understand why kabam don't get that they have taken all the fun out of war an are driving long time an new players away from the game. A few guys in our ally are leaving after AQ cos they need a break from this mess, again it's cos they are not having fun an the most enjoyable part of it(AW) has been ruined. Many others in other alliance's are also taking a break or I've even see a few just outright sell all their champs to make a clean break from the game.
Time to dust off the PS4 I think just in time for cod ww2,
If you happened to read @DNA3000's thesis, then you would see that this was the inevitable result based on his conjectures. He's been predicting this for a while now, as the only way to get everyone to not 100% the map (without having defender kills count) is to make the map so hard that they are unable to reach 100%.
So nope, he's still right. Hopefully his next prediction is one that has a brighter future for MCOC, because he's been on the money so far.
1. Restore map to the 1 week before state
2. Remove defender diversity, add instead a limit of 2 same defenders per BG (2 magik , 2 NC , etc) and award points based to that
3. Remove crit buff from dexterity lvl1 (No one wants it, Neither my grandma wants it)
4. Make defence rating steady (masteries and boosts should not count)
5. ADD BACK DEFENDERS KILLS
In Order to sum up , Firstly current map has ridiculous nodes which you clearly didnt test with specific masteries and or specific champs. Secondly, people claim previous map was not challenging because you forced us to use spider gwen in it. If you trully want to promote diversity you can star by removing the 5 black widow 5 Juggy 5 miles morales 5 uc from map 6. You can add spider gwen, karnak, and iron fist. That would do it.
Can you confirm how long these new nodes will remain in place for your paying customers to test please, because then we can just not play AW until you realise what a monumentally stupid change this was.
In its current state I am highly discouraged to use resources. Thats due in part to the cost in not being worth the final payout. The rewards are low when considering the cost of resources.
More of a personal opinion, I feel the addition of Mephisto has ruined AW for me. I have never been one to complain about a specific champ as a defender but I find Mephisto to be very discouraging. Insane regen, power gain, forced damage, and immune to the only single champ in the game who is of value against incinerate. Combine him with MD and its a rough experience. Maybe I am looking to far a head and playing a huge guessing game, but knowing he was in fact specifically designed to be an AW defender worries me of what's yet to come with new champs that can eliminate any enjoyment of war or making the rewards worth the effort and frustration.
@DNA3000 is the smartest one in this thread and good with numbers, maybe he/she can easily correct me on my next comment. But it would seem that if an alliance was able to acquire 6 total Mehisto's they could ignore some diversity and plant him as boss and all 5 mini's and easily shut down another alliance. I am guessing on that.
This isn't meant to be a crybaby comment, just trying to give feedback on my experience and perspective.
EDIT: Should add that this is an opinion based on Tier 2
Well said!!! I agree 1000%.
AW just isn't fun. Adding harder nodes; adding more empty space onto the Map, requiring more of our time and in-game-energy contradicts some of the other nonsense they tried to tell us about how we play the game. We're not buying it and Im certainly ot buying anything or spending any actual money on this game, which has become a farce.
I feel like War 15.0 is finally getting to what it should be. Prior to this newest update, I had just discussed with our officers that the 15.0 update focusing on diversity had sucked all the fun out of AW and we even tossed around the idea of not running war at all until fixed. Well, let me say, that I feel like it is much improved and much more fun now.
With the new nodes, we went from 100% clear in both alliances to now neither of us clearing. Definitely not a cakewalk anymore like it used to be. It will actually require some strategy from us for the next war.
Also I'm seeing with this latest node update a reverting back to best defense and diversity being more of an afterthought rather than a "let's get our spreadsheet out and assign defenders for max diversity." That was a bore and it feels good again to be able to bring our best defenders and let diversity truly be only a tiebreaker instead of a game-winner.
I'd still like to see defender kills come back and count for something - maybe 5 points each or something.
My only beef right now is this: the portal after node 47 MUST be able to portal up to node 53. Currently only one portal can reach node 53 when all the rest can be reached by 2 or 3 portals. That can't be intended and if it was, it needs to be fixed to balance the map.
Other than that, thanks for listening and making the map harder and more strategic
EDIT: Feedback based upon Tier 7 War matchup
@Kabam Miike
We still fully 100%'d all 3 BG's.
Same as it ever was.
Yeah I actually just posted a long POSITIVE review of the newest AW update. I like it. Problem is everyone thinks they should be able to 100% the map ever time and get all whiney when they die. In a good war, one team should win decisively.
My alliance does 100% all 3 BG's every time ... no whining either.
We still 100% the map.
Many wars will still be decided before they begin.
Nothing has changed.
Fix the map. Reduce the tedium of constantly logging in, make the left side not a nightmare of boredom. 10 energy for 3-4 fights? Seriously.
Bring back defender kills and remove diversity and rating from scoring completely. This is all that can save war.
If you read the thread you will see that everyone believes that everyone SHOULDN'T 100%. Thats all this thread has mainly been about, so not at all sure what you're choosing to go on about. *EDIT: Not all its been about, but one of the main topics
As far as negative and positive reviews its all gonna be determined on opinions based on what tiers players are in. So its important to mention tiers when giving feedback since the nodes are different.
The old map being better is NOT moot, unless you operate under the assumption that Kabam does as Kabam does and damn the rest, which is looking more and more the case.
If people do not speak then we will have no one to blame but ourselves for what we get. At least we can absolve ourselves of that indignity.
If the map can be cleared 100% it will be. If it will be then the deciding factor is rating and rating alone. As a programmer you must assume that if it can happen it will happen. And if your system isn't designed to handle the basic assumption that rating has been, can be and will continue to be the sole deciding factor in wars you have missed the mark and that's not a great time for those involved.
They can increase these nodes to an exponential degree, the fact remains that it will be cleared 100% and if two alliances clear it 100% then the sole tiebreaker is defender rating, aka, how much you can spend. It's bad design from a fundamental level in a head to head competitive game or mode of a game.
Have you lost a war by 15 points because they have a slightly higher defender rating then you do? What about when your defense vastly out does their defense in effectiveness; yielding you 30+ more kills?
Defender rating can not be the metric at which wars are won and lost, that means that nobody has a chance at winning unless they spend units to run bigger boosts.