Hood Changes - Discussion [Merged Threads]

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  • JadedJaded Posts: 3,346 ★★★★★
    ShrimpR said:

    😂give the bloody regen back

    WRIR said:

    Jaded said:


    I’ll just leave this here.
    (I have his permission to post this)

    I think your friend is kinda generalizing tho. It seems like by "nobody" he means "I didn't use him" because there certainly were people who used him

    The Hood post nerf was the favorite mystic champ of one of my oldest MCOC friends. He told us time and time again that the hood is an amazing champ. He used Ghost and Hood, but Hood was that perfect counter for cosmic champs that Ghost needed.

    Now the man's been ripped off of his favorite mystic he's been using for years. I dont think its fair to get rid of his fateseal because of people like my buddy. They never asked for this rework and all they did was take damage for it. Usually reworks for bad champions help but this wasnt even a bad champion. If anything he only needed a tune up.
    I think people are generalizing that everyone is invested in hood like some popular youtubers. The average player didn’t care, now they care.

    Also, I believe kabam should have left the regen. It didn’t matter, unintentionally but wasn’t insanely OP.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,160 Guardian
    Aleor said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Aleor said:

    Takes a day to make decision to fix his regen 'bug', but no any reaction for 5 days now. Transparency, right?

    To be fair, if a behavior is determined to be an obvious bug and not working as intended, it doesn't take long to decide it has to be fixed and the fix in this case is obvious: remove the heal on stagger refresh. And furthermore, it only hurts the players if they drag their feet on that fix, because the 99% of players who don't read the forums don't know this is a bug and would be making decisions like rank up decisions based on incorrect information. It is important *to the players* that Kabam fix those kinds of bugs as quickly as possible. It doesn't hurt them at all to drag their feet on it: it hurts us.

    If they are thinking about our feedback on Hood, there is no simple answer to this problem, and it goes beyond Hood: it goes to their core philosophy on how they update all future champions like Hood, and it goes to where you draw the line between removing something that is incidental to improve a champion for the majority of players, and where to decide it is more important to preserve existing functionality and spend more time crafting an update that improves the champion without disturbing existing use cases.

    I never said this was an easy decision to make in all cases. I only said Hood was an obvious case where the devs got it wrong. But if they are seriously thinking about this situation, they have to be thinking about the hard cases not just the easy ones.
    I'm just being salty.

    Also, they could've ask for some suggestions/feedback for some buff template before implementing them. Despite some people saying 'don't judge the buff by its description', we can state that all those players who didn't like fate seal removed from description didn't like it in game as well. And those who liked it are people who never used hood before.
    They also could've think about making his sp1 or sp3 usable, not just spamming sp2. Maybe even remove that lame holding block thing.
    It would not be a bad idea at all if, when the devs are looking at mid-tier updates, to reach out specifically to players who have ranked them up and are actively playing them, to find out *why* they ranked them up and *where* they are actively playing them. The datamining data they have tells them how many players are doing things. It doesn't tell them why those players are doing those things.
  • ItsDamienItsDamien Posts: 2,945 ★★★★★

    DNA3000 said:

    Aleor said:

    Takes a day to make decision to fix his regen 'bug', but no any reaction for 5 days now. Transparency, right?

    To be fair, if a behavior is determined to be an obvious bug and not working as intended, it doesn't take long to decide it has to be fixed and the fix in this case is obvious: remove the heal on stagger refresh. And furthermore, it only hurts the players if they drag their feet on that fix, because the 99% of players who don't read the forums don't know this is a bug and would be making decisions like rank up decisions based on incorrect information. It is important *to the players* that Kabam fix those kinds of bugs as quickly as possible. It doesn't hurt them at all to drag their feet on it: it hurts us.

    If they are thinking about our feedback on Hood, there is no simple answer to this problem, and it goes beyond Hood: it goes to their core philosophy on how they update all future champions like Hood, and it goes to where you draw the line between removing something that is incidental to improve a champion for the majority of players, and where to decide it is more important to preserve existing functionality and spend more time crafting an update that improves the champion without disturbing existing use cases.

    I never said this was an easy decision to make in all cases. I only said Hood was an obvious case where the devs got it wrong. But if they are seriously thinking about this situation, they have to be thinking about the hard cases not just the easy ones.
    How come they haven't said a word about Civil Warrior and Masacre's bugs tho? Civil Warrior's armor up buffs are not pausing correctly after special attacks, and his sp3 power lock is 4 seconds shorter than it should be. Masacre's UI is bugged, making it harder to manage his ignition charges. Why's it always gotta be the bug that benefits the players that has to get addressed immediately?
    Remember when Corvus wasn't power draining on his SP2 when the enemy was at 3 bars?

    They fixed that the same time they fixed Blade not draining his power to regen.

    They fix bugs as they can, not based on what benefits players.
  • TerraTerra Posts: 4,644 ★★★★★
    ItsDamien said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Aleor said:

    Takes a day to make decision to fix his regen 'bug', but no any reaction for 5 days now. Transparency, right?

    To be fair, if a behavior is determined to be an obvious bug and not working as intended, it doesn't take long to decide it has to be fixed and the fix in this case is obvious: remove the heal on stagger refresh. And furthermore, it only hurts the players if they drag their feet on that fix, because the 99% of players who don't read the forums don't know this is a bug and would be making decisions like rank up decisions based on incorrect information. It is important *to the players* that Kabam fix those kinds of bugs as quickly as possible. It doesn't hurt them at all to drag their feet on it: it hurts us.

    If they are thinking about our feedback on Hood, there is no simple answer to this problem, and it goes beyond Hood: it goes to their core philosophy on how they update all future champions like Hood, and it goes to where you draw the line between removing something that is incidental to improve a champion for the majority of players, and where to decide it is more important to preserve existing functionality and spend more time crafting an update that improves the champion without disturbing existing use cases.

    I never said this was an easy decision to make in all cases. I only said Hood was an obvious case where the devs got it wrong. But if they are seriously thinking about this situation, they have to be thinking about the hard cases not just the easy ones.
    How come they haven't said a word about Civil Warrior and Masacre's bugs tho? Civil Warrior's armor up buffs are not pausing correctly after special attacks, and his sp3 power lock is 4 seconds shorter than it should be. Masacre's UI is bugged, making it harder to manage his ignition charges. Why's it always gotta be the bug that benefits the players that has to get addressed immediately?
    Remember when Corvus wasn't power draining on his SP2 when the enemy was at 3 bars?

    They fixed that the same time they fixed Blade not draining his power to regen.

    They fix bugs as they can, not based on what benefits players.
    Blades power not draining was a fun few hours to mess around with him with
  • ItsDamienItsDamien Posts: 2,945 ★★★★★
    Terra said:

    ItsDamien said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Aleor said:

    Takes a day to make decision to fix his regen 'bug', but no any reaction for 5 days now. Transparency, right?

    To be fair, if a behavior is determined to be an obvious bug and not working as intended, it doesn't take long to decide it has to be fixed and the fix in this case is obvious: remove the heal on stagger refresh. And furthermore, it only hurts the players if they drag their feet on that fix, because the 99% of players who don't read the forums don't know this is a bug and would be making decisions like rank up decisions based on incorrect information. It is important *to the players* that Kabam fix those kinds of bugs as quickly as possible. It doesn't hurt them at all to drag their feet on it: it hurts us.

    If they are thinking about our feedback on Hood, there is no simple answer to this problem, and it goes beyond Hood: it goes to their core philosophy on how they update all future champions like Hood, and it goes to where you draw the line between removing something that is incidental to improve a champion for the majority of players, and where to decide it is more important to preserve existing functionality and spend more time crafting an update that improves the champion without disturbing existing use cases.

    I never said this was an easy decision to make in all cases. I only said Hood was an obvious case where the devs got it wrong. But if they are seriously thinking about this situation, they have to be thinking about the hard cases not just the easy ones.
    How come they haven't said a word about Civil Warrior and Masacre's bugs tho? Civil Warrior's armor up buffs are not pausing correctly after special attacks, and his sp3 power lock is 4 seconds shorter than it should be. Masacre's UI is bugged, making it harder to manage his ignition charges. Why's it always gotta be the bug that benefits the players that has to get addressed immediately?
    Remember when Corvus wasn't power draining on his SP2 when the enemy was at 3 bars?

    They fixed that the same time they fixed Blade not draining his power to regen.

    They fix bugs as they can, not based on what benefits players.
    Blades power not draining was a fun few hours to mess around with him with
    For sure. But the point was that those two issues, one benefitting and one detrimental, both got fixed at the same time.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,980 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Angela lost her ability to not get her buffs nullified

    Actually, the devs specifically went out of their way to preserve Angela's nullify protection because they added it back in a different mechanical way. So while it doesn't work the same way, she still does have nullify protection. It works differently and scales differently but at max sig with three buffs her nullify protection becomes 100%.

    Why specifically spend developer time thinking about, and adding that signature ability component, unless you're trying to preserve a feature of Angela you think the players would want to keep?

    They took Angela's nullify protection and *added* things to it: Auto block protection and damaging debuff mitigation. To do this decided to change the mechanics of Angela's buff nullify protection, but that seems to be a reasonable compromise between preserving the old while adding the interesting new.
    Yep. Around Sig 180 or so, she's DoT resistant, including Degen and Nodes like Icarus. That's pretty darn unique.
  • ShrimpRShrimpR Posts: 235
    edited March 2
    DNA3000 said:

    ShrimpR said:

    Kabam Boo said:

    Hi folks, this is just another check in to assure you all that we are still continuing to review your feedback on the matter. Our team is still in discussion. Thank you in advance for your patience and understanding.

    🤣I think the only way to keep everyone happy is to bring both regen and fate seal back, LOL
    Oh hell yeah

    hahahaha,awesome! epic opening
  • The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Posts: 5,470 ★★★★★
    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Agresssor said:

    Now i can use my Hood more frequently and not for specific situations once per 6 months as before for the buffs control with fateseal even if he lost this ability, there are still 200 champions it is very naive to want everything at once in one character.

    Even Aegon who is the strongest, in certain areas of the game he is not competent.

    Before the changes my hood was lying around and I took him only once a year because of his fateseal ability but after update i can use him more than before.

    Fateseal is nice to have but if i need to choice the old version or new version i will choice the new one with new mechanics and +200k burst damage, also now he can counter attack like ghost + you can parry while in invisible, + decent health steal and i hope its not a bug.

    Mags lost hes ability to tank sp 3 + healblock = no panic

    Old man logan lost hes passive regen = no panic

    I gave fateseal in return i got much better invisibility ( in my opion ), decent regen / suicide friendly ( in my opininion ), nice burst damage with some fun mechanics ( in my opinion ) + better signature ability

    1. Literally nobody used magneto, also you still have access to healblock if you want it, though if you’re using him against metal opponents as designed, you’re better off not having that synergy if regen is involved.
    2. OML also wasn’t used before, either way, he didn’t lose his regen, it was just changed to a buff. Closest that is to Hood is to his stagger changes, the fate seal change isn’t the same.
    3. The regen on hood might not even be intended so don’t go hyping him for that.
    4. You’ll probably not even use hood once the honeymoon phase ends because others do burst damage better.
    You don’t know who used magneto? For the SP3, you also don’t know who used him for healblock. It was a core mechanic of his that is no longer apart of his kit.

    I used OML literally all the time , and I used him for TJ at buff against all tricky mystic champs.

    We don’t know about hoods regen , but from reading it is working as intended some key wording changed his abilities.

    Go on YouTube and read the comments, so many people are happy about this change because they can use him all over now. This forum only has small sample size of the Mcoc population.

    I have plenty of end game friends and also friends who have just completed act 6 and they get their information and form their opinions through differ channels. I actually spoke to 3 end game and 3 mid game players this is a paraphrase of what they said .

    End game 1.) I like that hood and massacre won’t be synergy pieces anymore , hood wasn’t necessarily a side piece , but I liked that he could
    Spam SP2s back to back , Fate seal wasn’t something I used him for , but it was pointless to take out of his kit.

    End Game 2.) I think best rework goes to Angela or Hood, Hoods damage is noticeably different , it was a drag to use him when I didn’t want to revive ghost .

    End game 3 .) Did his prestige increase?


    Mid Game 1.) I don’t own a Hood above a 4* , so I haven’t tested him out.

    Mid game 2.) No one in our ally has talked about it yet, so I don’t know.

    Mid game 3.) Hood got a buff? when ? is he good for 7.1 ? I liked him as a 4* back in the day and I didn’t think he needed a buff.

    Bonus poll : MCOC elderly home interview and retirees : Group answer: “ Don’t trust Kabam”

    They have PTSD like old war vets from 12.0 .
    Heal block was a core mechanic of Magneto? Why was there no outrage over its removal? I had no idea he had heal block because only place where I used him was arena.

    I am almost sure the regen in the updated Hood is a unintended interaction. But, I am willing to wait for Kabam to respond. He becomes a better champ if it stays, but I am not sure I will take him any further than R2.

    Its an almost meaningless update for endgame players, we/they have counters other than Hood.
    The main issues are two fold.
    1) Why was it removed since we can see that having it in sp2 will not be too OP?
    2) What does it mean for future updates if simply removing an utility and giving some damage will appease the masses?
    Hood is more than a synergy piece now having decent damage, but you may need to bring in another mystic to deal with some annoying matchups in the future, which will be the real problem.

    All fair points, the ending was just to show that people get their information all types of ways, not just the forum.

    I think the reason why they removed it could have Possibly been a too strong of interaction with MD and his invisible mechanic, he could essentially stay invisible the entire fight and gain bullets and staggers the entire fight.

    It could also be they simply thought fate seal was a redundant mechanic. There were only a few fate seals in the game . Strange, Symbiotic Suprme ; ghost rider , hood , SW , each of these fate seals are accessible through an SP3 except for hood. Two of those champs had reduced power gain , this makes me think that they know how powerful this mechanic is.

    With fate seal on Hoods SP2 , you face this never ending loop of SP2s and you are invisible the whole time ; this would make him more potent than ghost in the game. This essentially renders the A.I pointless.

    Hood doesn’t have power reduction which would make him more potent than Symbotic Supreme when buffs are involved.

    Ghosting rider has to have his judgements reset in order to fate seal again.

    It’s a powerful mechanic and something like that could bring hood to ridiculous power levels.
    I personally don’t think it would’ve made him overpowered. While the fate seal mechanic itself hasn’t been used a huge lot, there are other champs with similar mechanics. Mephisto for example has his soul imprisonment at the start of the fight and after the sp1 by consuming a soul, which prevents the opponent from activating buffs. Another example of a similar mechanic is Claire’s buff immunity from her sp2. This debuff removes all current buffs and makes the opponent immune to any buffs while active. These are also champs that don’t have power reduction, and in the case of Claire in some matches you can actually build up a bunch of her charges and use all the power gain to launch multiple sp2s and keep the buff immunity up.
    I don’t know . But Mephistopheles mechanic is just bad because you can’t imprison them more than a couple of times, start of the the fight is nice though.

    Claire’s Buff immunity is not a fate seal, I’m not 100% sure it interacts the same way with MD the way they hood would because those aren’t nullifies , they are just immune. I could be wrong cause I can’t check at the moment. She also nullifies buffs on hit.
    She has a sorta inbuilt MD with her sp2. I don't run MD and when using sp2 against champions like Venom with many buffs, she actually gets back more than 2 bars of power or something. Essential sp2 spam for regen or damage depending on the stance.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,980 ★★★★★

    Another reason why Kabam hasn't really said much about this discussion but fixed Hood's healing bug pretty much right away is that fixing bugs is a lot faster and easier to do than figuring out what to do with the Hood situation in general. There are a lot of things for Kabam to discuss and decide on about what to do with the Hood situation. Off the top of my head, they are probably discussing all of the following things:
    Should we give him back his Fate Seal & AAR? Will that make him too powerful?
    Do we remove the bullet persistent charge mechanic and let him always have bullets at his disposal?
    Is Hood's Invisibility more useful now or in its original iteration? (His old invisibility was miles better)
    Should we add his power steal back onto each it?
    If we don't make any changes, should we give people RDTs since Hood no longer has the utility people ranked him up for?
    Will giving RDTs set a precedence for all of our future buffs?
    What fights were people using Hood for pre-"buff"? Can he still be used for those fights? What fights are people using him for now?
    These things can't be rushed, otherwise we'll just a half-baked solution that will cause more problems than it fixes.

    What seems most prudent, if they choose to do anything, would be adjusting the current version. I have yet to see a revert.
  • AleorAleor Posts: 2,604 ★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Aleor said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Aleor said:

    Takes a day to make decision to fix his regen 'bug', but no any reaction for 5 days now. Transparency, right?

    To be fair, if a behavior is determined to be an obvious bug and not working as intended, it doesn't take long to decide it has to be fixed and the fix in this case is obvious: remove the heal on stagger refresh. And furthermore, it only hurts the players if they drag their feet on that fix, because the 99% of players who don't read the forums don't know this is a bug and would be making decisions like rank up decisions based on incorrect information. It is important *to the players* that Kabam fix those kinds of bugs as quickly as possible. It doesn't hurt them at all to drag their feet on it: it hurts us.

    If they are thinking about our feedback on Hood, there is no simple answer to this problem, and it goes beyond Hood: it goes to their core philosophy on how they update all future champions like Hood, and it goes to where you draw the line between removing something that is incidental to improve a champion for the majority of players, and where to decide it is more important to preserve existing functionality and spend more time crafting an update that improves the champion without disturbing existing use cases.

    I never said this was an easy decision to make in all cases. I only said Hood was an obvious case where the devs got it wrong. But if they are seriously thinking about this situation, they have to be thinking about the hard cases not just the easy ones.
    I'm just being salty.

    Also, they could've ask for some suggestions/feedback for some buff template before implementing them. Despite some people saying 'don't judge the buff by its description', we can state that all those players who didn't like fate seal removed from description didn't like it in game as well. And those who liked it are people who never used hood before.
    They also could've think about making his sp1 or sp3 usable, not just spamming sp2. Maybe even remove that lame holding block thing.
    It would not be a bad idea at all if, when the devs are looking at mid-tier updates, to reach out specifically to players who have ranked them up and are actively playing them, to find out *why* they ranked them up and *where* they are actively playing them. The datamining data they have tells them how many players are doing things. It doesn't tell them why those players are doing those things.
    I don't know what data mining they are doing, but I guess it should show where people use hood. Otherwise their analysis is incomplete. It's not like data mining is some fixed algorithm you are not allowed to change. Nothing difficult to look for top occurring enemies/nodes he was used for
  • TerraTerra Posts: 4,644 ★★★★★

    Another reason why Kabam hasn't really said much about this discussion but fixed Hood's healing bug pretty much right away is that fixing bugs is a lot faster and easier to do than figuring out what to do with the Hood situation in general. There are a lot of things for Kabam to discuss and decide on about what to do with the Hood situation. Off the top of my head, they are probably discussing all of the following things:
    Should we give him back his Fate Seal & AAR? Will that make him too powerful?
    Do we remove the bullet persistent charge mechanic and let him always have bullets at his disposal?
    Is Hood's Invisibility more useful now or in its original iteration? (His old invisibility was miles better)
    Should we add his power steal back onto each it?
    If we don't make any changes, should we give people RDTs since Hood no longer has the utility people ranked him up for?
    Will giving RDTs set a precedence for all of our future buffs?
    What fights were people using Hood for pre-"buff"? Can he still be used for those fights? What fights are people using him for now?
    These things can't be rushed, otherwise we'll just a half-baked solution that will cause more problems than it fixes.

    What seems most prudent, if they choose to do anything, would be adjusting the current version. I have yet to see a revert.
    Here's hoping Hoods the first to get one.
  • Scopeotoe987Scopeotoe987 Posts: 1,317 ★★★★

    Give the freaking regen back.

    I’ll admit I’m salty about the regen as the fix is live for me. He just doesn’t feel the same to me as he did before.
  • Mr_PlatypusMr_Platypus Posts: 2,400 ★★★★★
    Keniutek said:

    LOL, knew it :lol:
    Deleting posts and fixing "pro players" stuff is on top of Kabam's list.
    BTW, how's the NF "fix" going? I guess it's not a priority, right?
    SMH

    What if I told you the same persistent charge issue that affects champs like nick fury when being used by the player also affects defenders like mephisto and champion in abyss.
    Almost as though it has positive and negative affects.
  • StevieManWonderStevieManWonder Posts: 3,575 ★★★★★

    Another reason why Kabam hasn't really said much about this discussion but fixed Hood's healing bug pretty much right away is that fixing bugs is a lot faster and easier to do than figuring out what to do with the Hood situation in general. There are a lot of things for Kabam to discuss and decide on about what to do with the Hood situation. Off the top of my head, they are probably discussing all of the following things:
    Should we give him back his Fate Seal & AAR? Will that make him too powerful?
    Do we remove the bullet persistent charge mechanic and let him always have bullets at his disposal?
    Is Hood's Invisibility more useful now or in its original iteration? (His old invisibility was miles better)
    Should we add his power steal back onto each it?
    If we don't make any changes, should we give people RDTs since Hood no longer has the utility people ranked him up for?
    Will giving RDTs set a precedence for all of our future buffs?
    What fights were people using Hood for pre-"buff"? Can he still be used for those fights? What fights are people using him for now?
    These things can't be rushed, otherwise we'll just a half-baked solution that will cause more problems than it fixes.

    What seems most prudent, if they choose to do anything, would be adjusting the current version. I have yet to see a revert.
    I think they will choose to do something about it because people have a valid reason to be upset since Hood lost everything that made him unique. The easiest and most practical fix that I support would be to give him back his Fate Seal/AAR off his sp2 and give him back his old Invisibilty. Having a 90% chance to cause projectiles to miss for the buff's full duration is far more valuable than having a 120% chance with a 20% decrease per miss to miss all attacks. It would also make his bullets easier to manage
  • Keniutek said:

    LOL, knew it :lol:
    Deleting posts and fixing "pro players" stuff is on top of Kabam's list.
    BTW, how's the NF "fix" going? I guess it's not a priority, right?
    SMH

    What if I told you the same persistent charge issue that affects champs like nick fury when being used by the player also affects defenders like mephisto and champion in abyss.
    Almost as though it has positive and negative affects.
    It even happens to the ai when facing then as well. Helped me when dealing with an NF in act 7. I considered that pro player in thay instance as well
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 26

    DNA3000 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Angela lost her ability to not get her buffs nullified

    Actually, the devs specifically went out of their way to preserve Angela's nullify protection because they added it back in a different mechanical way. So while it doesn't work the same way, she still does have nullify protection. It works differently and scales differently but at max sig with three buffs her nullify protection becomes 100%.

    Why specifically spend developer time thinking about, and adding that signature ability component, unless you're trying to preserve a feature of Angela you think the players would want to keep?

    They took Angela's nullify protection and *added* things to it: Auto block protection and damaging debuff mitigation. To do this decided to change the mechanics of Angela's buff nullify protection, but that seems to be a reasonable compromise between preserving the old while adding the interesting new.
    Yep. Around Sig 180 or so, she's DoT resistant, including Degen and Nodes like Icarus. That's pretty darn unique.
    Not all DoT effects. Only damaging debuffs. Most cases, degen is not a debuff.
  • AgresssorAgresssor Posts: 243
    edited March 2

    Another reason why Kabam hasn't really said much about this discussion but fixed Hood's healing bug pretty much right away is that fixing bugs is a lot faster and easier to do than figuring out what to do with the Hood situation in general. There are a lot of things for Kabam to discuss and decide on about what to do with the Hood situation. Off the top of my head, they are probably discussing all of the following things:
    Should we give him back his Fate Seal & AAR? Will that make him too powerful?
    Do we remove the bullet persistent charge mechanic and let him always have bullets at his disposal?
    Is Hood's Invisibility more useful now or in its original iteration? (His old invisibility was miles better)
    Should we add his power steal back onto each it?
    If we don't make any changes, should we give people RDTs since Hood no longer has the utility people ranked him up for?
    Will giving RDTs set a precedence for all of our future buffs?
    What fights were people using Hood for pre-"buff"? Can he still be used for those fights? What fights are people using him for now?
    These things can't be rushed, otherwise we'll just a half-baked solution that will cause more problems than it fixes.

    What seems most prudent, if they choose to do anything, would be adjusting the current version. I have yet to see a revert.
    I think they will choose to do something about it because people have a valid reason to be upset since Hood lost everything that made him unique. The easiest and most practical fix that I support would be to give him back his Fate Seal/AAR off his sp2 and give him back his old Invisibilty. Having a 90% chance to cause projectiles to miss for the buff's full duration is far more valuable than having a 120% chance with a 20% decrease per miss to miss all attacks. It would also make his bullets easier to manage
    Old version had 45% for regulars attacks and 90% for projectiles, so with 45% you cant counter attack like ghost. In this case new version is much better to counter attack regular attacks but less effective for projectiles
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,160 Guardian
    Aleor said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Aleor said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Aleor said:

    Takes a day to make decision to fix his regen 'bug', but no any reaction for 5 days now. Transparency, right?

    To be fair, if a behavior is determined to be an obvious bug and not working as intended, it doesn't take long to decide it has to be fixed and the fix in this case is obvious: remove the heal on stagger refresh. And furthermore, it only hurts the players if they drag their feet on that fix, because the 99% of players who don't read the forums don't know this is a bug and would be making decisions like rank up decisions based on incorrect information. It is important *to the players* that Kabam fix those kinds of bugs as quickly as possible. It doesn't hurt them at all to drag their feet on it: it hurts us.

    If they are thinking about our feedback on Hood, there is no simple answer to this problem, and it goes beyond Hood: it goes to their core philosophy on how they update all future champions like Hood, and it goes to where you draw the line between removing something that is incidental to improve a champion for the majority of players, and where to decide it is more important to preserve existing functionality and spend more time crafting an update that improves the champion without disturbing existing use cases.

    I never said this was an easy decision to make in all cases. I only said Hood was an obvious case where the devs got it wrong. But if they are seriously thinking about this situation, they have to be thinking about the hard cases not just the easy ones.
    I'm just being salty.

    Also, they could've ask for some suggestions/feedback for some buff template before implementing them. Despite some people saying 'don't judge the buff by its description', we can state that all those players who didn't like fate seal removed from description didn't like it in game as well. And those who liked it are people who never used hood before.
    They also could've think about making his sp1 or sp3 usable, not just spamming sp2. Maybe even remove that lame holding block thing.
    It would not be a bad idea at all if, when the devs are looking at mid-tier updates, to reach out specifically to players who have ranked them up and are actively playing them, to find out *why* they ranked them up and *where* they are actively playing them. The datamining data they have tells them how many players are doing things. It doesn't tell them why those players are doing those things.
    I don't know what data mining they are doing, but I guess it should show where people use hood. Otherwise their analysis is incomplete. It's not like data mining is some fixed algorithm you are not allowed to change. Nothing difficult to look for top occurring enemies/nodes he was used for
    To be specific, data mining can theoretically show everything, but of course no human could wade through that much data: you might as well firehose the server logs up your nose. Instead they present statistical information to the devs. That statistical information would (likely) show, for example, where people use Hood, and how many people have ranked up Hood. It may or may not specifically show things like where players who ranked up Hood use Hood with that kind of detail, but it is that kind of detail that would be important to know what parts of a champion's kit are incidental and which parts of a champion's kit are critical to the players who use it the most.

    And it won't necessarily tell the devs what part of the champion are most important to the players in those specific situations, and sometimes this isn't obvious, because different players play champions differently. Two different players might use the exact same champion differently in the exact same fight. Knowing what the players themselves think is important is another detail that datamining is unlikely to illuminate.
  • DonDudu2809DonDudu2809 Posts: 261 ★★
    I really found him enjoyable after his buff. His damage is better but not top tier in my oppinion, but he is a very fun champ, with a lot of "tankyness". You have a very high uptime in invisibility in the fight and u have regen. He was such a great synergy partner for Ghost, because if you can't use Ghost somewhere, you can be like "Screw it, i'll use Hood and if I mess up i will have the heal helping ne out". But they messed up again....if they would leave his regen as before the "fix", give him his fate seal, and remove his persistent charges, he would actually be a very fun and appreciated champion...
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,980 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Angela lost her ability to not get her buffs nullified

    Actually, the devs specifically went out of their way to preserve Angela's nullify protection because they added it back in a different mechanical way. So while it doesn't work the same way, she still does have nullify protection. It works differently and scales differently but at max sig with three buffs her nullify protection becomes 100%.

    Why specifically spend developer time thinking about, and adding that signature ability component, unless you're trying to preserve a feature of Angela you think the players would want to keep?

    They took Angela's nullify protection and *added* things to it: Auto block protection and damaging debuff mitigation. To do this decided to change the mechanics of Angela's buff nullify protection, but that seems to be a reasonable compromise between preserving the old while adding the interesting new.
    Yep. Around Sig 180 or so, she's DoT resistant, including Degen and Nodes like Icarus. That's pretty darn unique.
    Not all DoT effects. Only damaging debuffs. Most cases, degen is not a debuff.
    AH. I was told by another Ally Member. Thanks for the clarification.
  • Mughal50XMughal50X Posts: 19
    Despacito said:

    People used old hood?

    Yes, they did!

  • KDoggg2017KDoggg2017 Posts: 748 ★★★

    Another reason why Kabam hasn't really said much about this discussion but fixed Hood's healing bug pretty much right away is that fixing bugs is a lot faster and easier to do than figuring out what to do with the Hood situation in general. There are a lot of things for Kabam to discuss and decide on about what to do with the Hood situation. Off the top of my head, they are probably discussing all of the following things:
    Should we give him back his Fate Seal & AAR? Will that make him too powerful?
    Do we remove the bullet persistent charge mechanic and let him always have bullets at his disposal?
    Is Hood's Invisibility more useful now or in its original iteration? (His old invisibility was miles better)
    Should we add his power steal back onto each it?
    If we don't make any changes, should we give people RDTs since Hood no longer has the utility people ranked him up for?
    Will giving RDTs set a precedence for all of our future buffs?
    What fights were people using Hood for pre-"buff"? Can he still be used for those fights? What fights are people using him for now?
    These things can't be rushed, otherwise we'll just a half-baked solution that will cause more problems than it fixes.

    Someone at Kabam is sweeping their headquarters for listening devices after reading your comment. 😂🤣
  • AgresssorAgresssor Posts: 243
    edited March 2

    Agresssor said:

    Another reason why Kabam hasn't really said much about this discussion but fixed Hood's healing bug pretty much right away is that fixing bugs is a lot faster and easier to do than figuring out what to do with the Hood situation in general. There are a lot of things for Kabam to discuss and decide on about what to do with the Hood situation. Off the top of my head, they are probably discussing all of the following things:
    Should we give him back his Fate Seal & AAR? Will that make him too powerful?
    Do we remove the bullet persistent charge mechanic and let him always have bullets at his disposal?
    Is Hood's Invisibility more useful now or in its original iteration? (His old invisibility was miles better)
    Should we add his power steal back onto each it?
    If we don't make any changes, should we give people RDTs since Hood no longer has the utility people ranked him up for?
    Will giving RDTs set a precedence for all of our future buffs?
    What fights were people using Hood for pre-"buff"? Can he still be used for those fights? What fights are people using him for now?
    These things can't be rushed, otherwise we'll just a half-baked solution that will cause more problems than it fixes.

    What seems most prudent, if they choose to do anything, would be adjusting the current version. I have yet to see a revert.
    I think they will choose to do something about it because people have a valid reason to be upset since Hood lost everything that made him unique. The easiest and most practical fix that I support would be to give him back his Fate Seal/AAR off his sp2 and give him back his old Invisibilty. Having a 90% chance to cause projectiles to miss for the buff's full duration is far more valuable than having a 120% chance with a 20% decrease per miss to miss all attacks. It would also make his bullets easier to manage
    Old version had 45% for regulars attacks and 90% for projectiles, so with 45% you cant counter attack like ghost. In this case new version is much better to counter attack regular attacks but less effective for projectiles
    Yes, but people weren't using him to counterattack basic attacks like Ghost. We have Ghost for that, we don't need two champs that do it. Hood's 45% chance to miss basic attacks was a necessary check to balance his 90% for projectiles. If he had a 100% chance to miss all attacks for the full duration of his Invisibility, he'd be way too OP since you can have also 100% uptime on his invisibility. His 90% chance is way more useful than his 120% chance in every fight where he was used. Think of Kinetic Transference P2099. It's a brutal fight with most champs, but Hood used to destroy it.
    " We have Ghost for that, we don't need two champs that do it. " If i dont have ghost ? but i have hood, so in this case ill chose 120% over 45% for counter attack.

    With this logic if we have 1 champion in game who can place place shocks, bleeds then why do we need others with the same abilities
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