It is time for Thronebreaker crystals....

Wicket329 · March 2021

I am not sure where I come down on the issue of Thronebreaker crystals. But there are a few things I want to point out here. EDIT: By the end of this post I convinced myself TB crystals were a bad idea.

First off, it is not availability of 6* champions that increases the need for 7* champions, it is the availability of rankup champs for them. If everybody all of a sudden got 30 top of the line 6* champs, but they were all r1, level 1, then it wouldn’t move the needle on 7*s entering the contest. If everybody suddenly got all of the like T5/6/7B, CC, and alpha catalysts they ever needed, that’s what would hurry 7*s in. New rarity champs are ushered in by the previous rarity reaching its peak, not by availability of individual champions.

That being said, flooding the game with easy-access 6*s is its own problem. Thronebreaker crystals even up to the 3-5% range would *massively* increase the rate of 6* acquisition, especially for spenders. I say this as somebody who falls into that category, and I still don’t think it’s a great idea.

I think the answer is to give Thronebreakers a better way of targeting what they want, like dual- or tri-class 6* crystals, or crystals that target like 2015/17/19 and 2016/18/20. I think that would be a far better way of handling the issue.

I also think that Kabam needs to re-examine the way 6* champions become available. From the time of his release, it’s going to take Odin and Mangog nearly 6 months to enter the basic 6* pool. That’s insane. There has to be a better way.

Hoitado · March 2021

Up the Price to 450 units regular and 600 Featured and take out the 3*s but don’t change the drop rates too much

Texas_11 · March 2021

Wicket329 said:
I am not sure where I come down on the issue of Thronebreaker crystals. But there are a few things I want to point out here. EDIT: By the end of this post I convinced myself TB crystals were a bad idea.

First off, it is not availability of 6* champions that increases the need for 7* champions, it is the availability of rankup champs for them. If everybody all of a sudden got 30 top of the line 6* champs, but they were all r1, level 1, then it wouldn’t move the needle on 7*s entering the contest. If everybody suddenly got all of the like T5/6/7B, CC, and alpha catalysts they ever needed, that’s what would hurry 7*s in. New rarity champs are ushered in by the previous rarity reaching its peak, not by availability of individual champions.

That being said, flooding the game with easy-access 6*s is its own problem. Thronebreaker crystals even up to the 3-5% range would *massively* increase the rate of 6* acquisition, especially for spenders. I say this as somebody who falls into that category, and I still don’t think it’s a great idea.

I think the answer is to give Thronebreakers a better way of targeting what they want, like dual- or tri-class 6* crystals, or crystals that target like 2015/17/19 and 2016/18/20. I think that would be a far better way of handling the issue.

I also think that Kabam needs to re-examine the way 6* champions become available. From the time of his release, it’s going to take Odin and Mangog nearly 6 months to enter the basic 6* pool. That’s insane. There has to be a better way.

I’m with you on the new champ acquisition it almost makes it mandatory to pop cavs to get new champs. Not sure if it’s a 6* arena ; or an early access featured crystal .

Greekhit · March 2021

SWORD78 said:
Up the Price to 450 units regular and 600 Featured and take out the 3*s but don’t change the drop rates too much

That’s plain foolish.
Doubling the price for guaranteed iso? wtf
Also there is absolutely no reason for Thronebreaker crystals yet.
For gods sake, 5* basic arena needed, and a huge overhaul in milestone rewards, before even thinking of introducing a TB crystal.
If they ever introduce TB crystals, that should happen on par with a 6* basic arena, to balance things out.
The gap between whales and ftp grinders is already huge, since Cavalier Crystals introduced, a TB crystal with better 5*/6* odds would kill ftp players instantly, leaving them miles behind whales.
It’s already lame, that someone can acquire multiple 6*s through Cav crystals, while there is no way to acquire them through playing arena 😠

Ghostspider231 · March 2021

My suggestion is that you lower the cost of featured cavs to 200 units and basic cavs to 100 units for Thronebreaker. A thronebreaker crystal would be nice but 300 units should be the cap on crystal cost considering it's $10 worth of units.

Texas_11 · March 2021

I also think the perception of 5*s has changed even amongst the mid tier players I see people all the time on the forums that would rather have a 6* R2 then two 5/65 champs, even though it’s best for their progression.

This happened to me when 4* champs were phasing out , I had a total of 6 4* R5 champs I think and was focusing on 3/45 5* champs. Overall, It took a couple of years for me to reap those benefits, but the latest and greatest always takes over the previous roster . For me at this point a 5* champion is a miss. Why? Because I have 3 T5cc I need to use. The cycle never ends.

Worknprogress · March 2021

Greekhit said:

SWORD78 said:
Up the Price to 450 units regular and 600 Featured and take out the 3*s but don’t change the drop rates too much
That’s plain foolish.
Doubling the price for guaranteed iso? wtf
Also there is absolutely no reason for Thronebreaker crystals yet.
For gods sake, 5* basic arena needed, and a huge overhaul in milestone rewards, before even thinking of introducing a TB crystal.
If they ever introduce TB crystals, that should happen on par with a 6* basic arena, to balance things out.
The gap between whales and ftp grinders is already huge, since Cavalier Crystals introduced, a TB crystal with better 5*/6* odds would kill ftp players instantly, leaving them miles behind whales.
It’s already lame, that someone can acquire multiple 6*s through Cav crystals, while there is no way to acquire them through playing arena 😠

Well considering you can grind arena for units and buy cavs with units, that last bit isn't technically true.

TheGrandM4ster · March 2021

With the shift to 6 stars, there most defiantly needs to be TB or something to make new 6 stars more accessible. The cadence in which a new champ is released and getting the 6 star version is incredibly slow. Making it less exciting when a new champ comes out. What is the point of going for Odin if I have to wait for the next next featured crystal and the cav crystal has a 1 in 1,000 chance?

KoiBoy18 · March 2021

How many times have we seen this short-sighted request to remove 3*s from Cav crystals? The danger is the overabundance of 5* shards since, without 3*s, every TB player would have 100% chance of getting 275/550 5* shards

My own position on this hasn't changed: if you want to remove 3*s from Cav, then any 4* pulls should award ZERO 5* shards. So you'd get class ISO while preventing huge run-up of 5* (and related 6*) shards.

Squirrelguy · March 2021

I feel like people forget how ridiculous it was to get Grandmaster crystals for years before Cav crystals came out. It was seen as a bad investment. With the introduction of Cav crystals, it is a decent enough cost for the opportunity it presents, but expect that to go down as the meta changes. When it’s been a couple years since Cav crystals were relevant, then bring back up these threads.

GroundedWisdom · March 2021

If you want to create a giant wedge between TB and everyone else, sure.

Etm34 · March 2021

I'd rather get a 6* dual class crystal or that mysterious wish crystal long before we get TB crystals. We may get a new crystal with a new progression title down the line, but now is not the time.

What blows my mind is people complain enough already about the gap between F2P and spenders, but then they want to make it worse by adding an even better crystal?

Kennado · March 2021

Dreanica said:
Soooo, when we had grandmaster crystals, cavalier crystals were op when they came out?

Uhhhhh ....Yeah. They were. The introduction of the Cav crystal and the initial boom were the single biggest thing that changed the game. Anyone that played the game back then will tell you the same.

Under_dug1 · March 2021

20% chance for 6*. 50% chance for 5*, And 30% for 4*

crogs · March 2021

Texas_11 said:
I wouldn’t mind a TB crystal if you could open one a week from the sigil at 500 Units or so , Kinda like the glory currently.

But having a crystal like that permanently for sale would surely ruin the game economy. Right now the odds are so low of actually acquiring the 6* from the cavs, I don’t think anyone except the top will spend 10k to get one champ.

However, on TB crystals you introduce 6* shard farming , 6* champ farming. This may not be an issue for the top players, it becomes an issue for those that just became TB and now can just farm what they need through money. A game shouldn’t have such a significant impact.

I kind of like the idea of introducing shards to those types of crystals. So if you pull a 3* but get 100 6* shards, you don't feel as screwed.

Spurgeon14 · March 2021

Texas_11 said:

Pulyaman said:

Texas_11 said:

Pulyaman said:

Pancake_Face said:
I would take 80% 4* 15% 5* 5% 6*. Basically you can get more shards for 5*s but its not too op i guess
The problem is you could just buy these things and rack up 5 star shards and iso. Which will only result in more 6 star champs in the game which will make the advent of 7 stars that much faster.
Exactly,
Maybe they could have done this if they made TB requirement for 100% abyss. There are people I know who are TB and haven’t done a single path in abyss.
I am not sure 100% abyss is relevant in terms of game progress.100 % act 6 should have been the requirement. Act 6 100% requires more counters and a well developed roster. Also, Abyss is a side content like variant. It should not be mandatory to do just like LOL.
It’s very relevant, it’s actually a very integral part of the prestige race and holds valuable resources not available anywhere else in game. Because they have shifted away from act 6 and act 7 being profession based content , it would make sense that abyss 100% would be required. In fact, you have people who are now so deep into the game they still haven’t completed act 6 and are TB. They just run 7x5 and do cav and are good to go.

Kabam didn’t want players having 6* R3 champs trying to 100% act 6 with them. Obviously, that will happen sooner than later like all games. A perfect example of this is how irrelevant LOL has become., The resources are so abundant it doesn’t make sense for a progressing player to try to 100% it.

Having TB significantly lowered to just one 6* R3 champ instead of 100% abyss, let’s me know they are focused on capturing a larger group, while turning to maintain the integrity of the game.

To sum up my point , and our discussion. They can’t do TB crystals because the entry to become TB is a lot lower, you would have people ranking up any champ just to get their hands on TB crystals and progress them past the point they should be, which can reduce a games life significantly.

If you watched any New account starts between Legacy and BG , you can see how quickly someone can progress within a week. That’s without TB.

You have to complete Act 6 to become Thronebreaker.

Stellar · March 2021

If you look more carefully to you crystals, you will notice that Thronebreakers already have their crystals... the cavalier crystals !

It seems that you will have to wait for the next title to get access to a throne breaker crystal edition 😉

DNA3000 · March 2021

Worknprogress said:

DNA3000 said:

Worknprogress said:
Yes, what a game where people constantly complain about spenders having a massive advantage with cav crystals needs, is an even better crystal to buy.
Cav crystals did go from being overwhelmingly broken to underwhelmingly irrelevant awfully fast.

And all while game revenue increased substantially. It is a mystery.
Heck, I'm all for maintaining a roster advantage getting substantially cheaper personally. Anyone that thinks this would be a good move right now for the majority of the playerbase is fooling themselves though.

Ultimately everything in the game is designed around averages. Cavalier difficulty isn't targeting some hypothetical "appropriate" difficulty, it targets the mathematical datamined average Cavalier player. When you add something like a super valuable TB crystal to the game, people assume it will make their roster stronger: it doesn't occur to them it can make their roster weaker on a relative basis if there are too many players who get more of those crystals than they do. And then content itself will ratchet upward to meet that average, and they'll find themselves actually getting weaker, all the while their roster gets larger faster than before,.

And then they'll be complaining the game is getting too hard because they see themselves as above average, while the crystal they thought was making them better was actually making them worse.

Spurgeon14 · March 2021

Texas_11 said:

Pulyaman said:

Texas_11 said:

Pulyaman said:

Pancake_Face said:
I would take 80% 4* 15% 5* 5% 6*. Basically you can get more shards for 5*s but its not too op i guess
The problem is you could just buy these things and rack up 5 star shards and iso. Which will only result in more 6 star champs in the game which will make the advent of 7 stars that much faster.
Exactly,
Maybe they could have done this if they made TB requirement for 100% abyss. There are people I know who are TB and haven’t done a single path in abyss.
I am not sure 100% abyss is relevant in terms of game progress.100 % act 6 should have been the requirement. Act 6 100% requires more counters and a well developed roster. Also, Abyss is a side content like variant. It should not be mandatory to do just like LOL.
It’s very relevant, it’s actually a very integral part of the prestige race and holds valuable resources not available anywhere else in game. Because they have shifted away from act 6 and act 7 being profession based content , it would make sense that abyss 100% would be required. In fact, you have people who are now so deep into the game they still haven’t completed act 6 and are TB. They just run 7x5 and do cav and are good to go.

Kabam didn’t want players having 6* R3 champs trying to 100% act 6 with them. Obviously, that will happen sooner than later like all games. A perfect example of this is how irrelevant LOL has become., The resources are so abundant it doesn’t make sense for a progressing player to try to 100% it.

Having TB significantly lowered to just one 6* R3 champ instead of 100% abyss, let’s me know they are focused on capturing a larger group, while turning to maintain the integrity of the game.

To sum up my point , and our discussion. They can’t do TB crystals because the entry to become TB is a lot lower, you would have people ranking up any champ just to get their hands on TB crystals and progress them past the point they should be, which can reduce a games life significantly.

If you watched any New account starts between Legacy and BG , you can see how quickly someone can progress within a week. That’s without TB.

You have to complete Act 6 to become Thronebreaker.

KoiBoy18 said:
How many times have we seen this short-sighted request to remove 3*s from Cav crystals? The danger is the overabundance of 5* shards since, without 3*s, every TB player would have 100% chance of getting 275/550 5* shards

My own position on this hasn't changed: if you want to remove 3*s from Cav, then any 4* pulls should award ZERO 5* shards. So you'd get class ISO while preventing huge run-up of 5* (and related 6*) shards.

This is so idiotic. It takes 37 4* dupes if not max sig or 19 4* dupes with max sig to get enough 5* shards to get a BASIC 5* crystal. That is over 10,000 and 5,000 units. If someone spends that much they should absolutely be able to get those shards. Furthermore, people are extremely delusional if they think allowing people to acquire more 5* and 6*s would automatically throw off the game economy. 90% of the champs in the game are not OP, so most pulls don't immediately change the game for most players, and those who are always at the top already have the top champs. Thronebreaker crystals should definitely be a thing, but who knows if/when that will happen and when it does it probably won't be game changing.

Dreanica · March 2021

Again, with over 200+ 6* champs, with a majority not r3 worthy, tb crystal is not op. Whales are going to whale regardless, just look at the top whaler accounts. Increasing 6* chances are not going to break the game. 7-12% 6* chance is still incredibly low(remember grandmaster crystals) whales will whale but it would make it more interesting for the player who are ftp or light spenders to pop 1 or 2 once in a while. Rank up resources will always be #1 demand but for Thronebreaker accounts, who focus on 6*s, it would add more to the game. Cav crystals have been here for 2 years. It's time for a change.

Texas_11 · March 2021

Dreanica said:
Again, with over 200+ 6* champs, with a majority not r3 worthy, tb crystal is not op. Whales are going to whale regardless, just look at the top whaler accounts. Increasing 6* chances are not going to break the game. 7-12% 6* chance is still incredibly low(remember grandmaster crystals) whales will whale but it would make it more interesting for the player who are ftp or light spenders to pop 1 or 2 once in a while. Rank up resources will always be #1 demand but for Thronebreaker accounts, who focus on 6*s, it would add more to the game. Cav crystals have been here for 2 years. It's time for a change.

You do understand that these things aren’t put in place for whales and spenders at the top of the game right? Haven’t you seen gifting rewards? TB is a feel good title with great rewards already. If they wanted to do stuff like you are suggesting, they would need a “grandmasters favor” chest that’s only granted to those who have 100% abyss. Then they can get creative with crystals like Increase your luck etc.

DrZola · March 2021

Just make the dailies better. That’s enough for me.

Dr. Zola

TyEdge · March 2021

The 6-star pool is truly enormous, and there’s nothing a random rank 1 6-star does for a Thronebreaker besides a new synergy maybe (but probably not).

If the crystal was:

5% 6-star
25% 5-star
30% 4-star
40% 3-star

For the same 300-unit price, TB players get a significant increase in 6-star odds, but still run 20 crystals for a 6-star on average. It’s relevant without being gamebreaking. I think we can agree that about 100/150 6-stars are irrelevant to add to the roster of someone who’s already TB.

Panchulon21 · March 2021

I have bought 3 total cav crystals all of 2021. I’m also not a big spender. The drop rates are garbage. I’ll stick to my bad luck on regular crystals.

Even if a TB crystal drops I still wouldn’t spend units on it.

It is time for Thronebreaker crystals....

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