Should Kabam nerf champions???

LeonBeni93LeonBeni93 Posts: 69
edited November 2017 in General Discussion
So seeing the current situation with gwenpool,I feel an important subject which needs to be discussed in the community is this.I left the answers to be just a simple Yes or No because i believe it will be greater to have a constructive discussion in the comment section explaining everyone opinion instead of trying to fill the options with every possible one!

On my behalf,i do understand the frustration someone might feel seeing his hard earned items(catalysts as well as gold and iso) invested in a supposedly top champion gone because of a nerf.Although i believe that OP champions are bad for the game.I am talking about real OP champions like some pre 12.0 ones.I see 2 reasons to say that:
-They take skill out of the game,e.g old black widow could shutdown defensive abilities at 100% without any need of skills
-They make the gap from medium champs even bigger.Here i want to add that i am all for buffing those mediocre champs(even more the trash ones)!I also want to explain,e.g a beast like stark spidy might be used against tones of nodes that would require utility champions just because he can finish a fight sooooo fast! It might be too much to suggest but maybe you could even use him against a bleed node and loose little life because you can finish the fight with a few hits...
I might be overreacting with the Stark-spidy examples but I'm pretty sure you can all understand my point without sticking to the specified examples.

In addition,i want to say that we have to accept that even if Kabam tests the champions as much as they can before releasing them, its sure they can't predict every gameplay style(e.g GP unlimited hard hit cornering while enervate buff is on?) and scenario that will occur when thousands of us use this champions.So its inevitable there will be occurrences that a nerf might be needed.

Should Kabam nerf champions??? 113 votes

Yes!
28%
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No!
71%
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Comments

  • SpiritOfVengeanceSpiritOfVengeance Posts: 2,353 ★★★★
    Yes!
    I would be fine if more champs were nerfed since it causes people to awaken themselves and see the beaconing light giving a signal to run free.
  • The1_NuclearOnionThe1_NuclearOnion Posts: 893 ★★★
    No!
    NO. Buff the others and be creative about any adjustments. There have been MUCH better adjustments suggested by the community here that would have taken care of that GP issue without such a huge nerf to her.
    Maybe Kabam should do more crowd sourcing for ideas before they just simply nerf the heck out of a champ.

    @Lightvayne what if the bank analogy was this though:
    Let's say a bank offers 10% interest on your money if you transfer it all to them at an initial transfer fee of 5% of the total. Then once your money is there, a month later, they realize that is too much interest for them to pay out so they change it to 1.5%. You ask for a refund then of your 5% balance transfer fee and they say "no way".
    THAT is closer to what people "feel" when a champ they pour into gets nerfed.
  • KhanMedinaKhanMedina Posts: 927 ★★★
    No!
    I think any Nerf should be completed within the first month, or at least before they are widely released in the basic pool. This exploit was well known months ago, but they let people keep ranking her up with no warning of the *fix* given beforehand. If you wait this long, then the nerf should come with champ specific rank down. If you still want to use GP, then you won't rank her down. If you only upgraded her because you wanted to take advantage of this widely known move, that was in no way exploiting anything other than the stated mechanics, then it's unfair that you just lost your resources.

  • NDK13NDK13 Posts: 620 ★★
    No!
    There were tons of suggestions by th3 community which were better than what Kabam did and didn't need gwenpool to such a tremendous level. She's still a decent champ but that wasn't much of an exploit. Removing block proficiency synergy that was a good thing. Nerfing champs just because they were making content easy a big no. Why not just ban the use of OP champs in certain content of the game then. Just like how smogon community in pokémon did. Certain pokémon were too strong like speed boost blaziken or bibarel so they were banned in certain tiers of the competitive game.
  • KhanMedinaKhanMedina Posts: 927 ★★★
    No!
    NDK13 wrote: »
    There were tons of suggestions by th3 community which were better than what Kabam did and didn't need gwenpool to such a tremendous level. She's still a decent champ but that wasn't much of an exploit. Removing block proficiency synergy that was a good thing. Nerfing champs just because they were making content easy a big no. Why not just ban the use of OP champs in certain content of the game then. Just like how smogon community in pokémon did. Certain pokémon were too strong like speed boost blaziken or bibarel so they were banned in certain tiers of the competitive game.

    Shh before they start banning Voodoo vs. Groot or anything else that helps us beat the game.
  • Yes!
    They should nerf blade
    I'm so butthurt, i didn't get him in featured 5*
  • DarkmaliceDarkmalice Posts: 13
    edited November 2017
    No!
    Champions should never be nerfed. You can't offer something that people spend money for then lower its value afterwards. What they should do is take enough time and internal testing to balance the champion prior to release.

    Why does this company get away with it? I don't know.... Imagine you buy a Lexus that is leather interior, goes 150 mp5 and gets 30 Mpg. 8 months after you buy the car, they come to your house and they strip off the leather and add cloth interior, mess with the motor so that it only goes 100 mph max and now the mileage is 10 mpg. How DOES THAT EVEN MAKE SENSE!

    I believe "fixes" are different than "nerfs".

    The recent GP change was a fix to combat and exploit. I dont really consider that a nerf.

    DS, Witch, etc were nerfs.

    kabam are crooks, bottom line
  • RapRap Posts: 2,983 ★★★★
    Yes!
    You know I've pondered this issue considerably. we've had a bunch of champs premier broken...early on some so bad they got hidden away for a while till they worked out a few bugs (Spidey is an example, his evade didn't work so he almost never dropped...) but they churn out so many...so fast...feels like they need a break...the players need a break...and things need fixed. As for nerfing...I think we can all agree we are fine with nerfing...if it is an UPWARD nerf...
  • No!
    I should have known she was gonna get nerfed after i pulled her twice in one week then take her to rank 5. There should be cut off period when they nerf a champ or give a class specific rank down ticket which is only valid for 1 week
  • Yes!
    If BW deserved a nerf Gwen needs 3 or 4 more
  • SlyCat42SlyCat42 Posts: 500 ★★
    So, technically there are some really strong champions out there that if they got nerfed wouldn't hurt them much, and by the same contrast most of the tanky roster (Colossus, Luke Cage, Hulkbuster) could really use some buffs.

    However, for the most part it doesn't matter. Why? Because this is not a game especially focused on PvP. So, if one character is a little too powerful that only matters for the few people who actually have that character and doesn't really affect anyone else.

    Another person having Blade for example does not stop you from completing Labyrinth; it's just easier for the person who have them.

    There may come a time where they release something so busted it just HAS to be nerfed because people are like one shotting Labyrinth with no revives, but so far nothing quite like that has happened.
  • This is actually a somewhat meaningless question, because it presumes that if you eliminate nerfs you eliminate all possible ways to balance something downward towards the range of performance the developers want. It is trivially easy to prove that, as impractical as it might be, it is always mathematically possible to convert a nerf into a set of buffs. Simply buff everything else by the inverse amount of the nerf. Anyone taking the position that developers should never nerf would also have to take the position that developers should never buff anything unless they buff everything else equally, which is untenable.

    For example, you can convert the Gwenpool nerf into a buff for everything else: give all champions (including Gwenpool) a 95% chance to immediately nullify the bleed caused by Gwenpool's medium attack. That's technically a buff that in net effect accomplishes the same thing as the Gwenpool nerf, just in a ludicrously complicated way.

    Buffs and nerfs are relative things, not absolute things. The Gwenpool nerf decreases Gwenpool's bleed but it contrawise increases everyone else's ability to survive Gwenpool's bleed by a small amount.

    I think when players complain about nerfs, and they say "buff everything else instead" they either don't mean buff everything else, or they don't understand what "buff everything else" means. If the devs keep buffing everything upward in an endless cycle, they would also have to buff the difficulty of the content to keep up. They cannot allow champions to accelerate upward while the content stays still. Outliers would still get pushed towards the middle, and the overall difficulty of the game would have to remain within a certain boundary. At best, everything gets buffed upward to a saturation point and then everything is equally excellent, but the content itself requires exceptionally strong champions just to complete it, and we're left with everything appearing equally weak even as everything is buffed upwards.

    The only way to avoid this is to be honest, and ask for exceptional things to be allowed to remain exceptional, and not only avoid nerfing them but also avoid buffing anything else to compete with it, and avoid rebalancing the content to keep up. And once you go there, that's when the position becomes untenable.
  • Yes!
    I wanna add, that if they nerf a champ like they did in this update, they should granted a specific class rank down ticket
  • No!
    This is a question with some grey area for me because nerfs can be justified if you take the time to get perspective on the game and its content. On topic of Gwenpool, I'd say yes, the nerf was fair because it was leading to an exploit for people to cheese their way through what is supposed to be high end content. Even SW's nerfs can be justified because she was just downright making the game too easy. These were IMO well handled nerfs because they solved a problem and they remain highly useful characters. Whatever money people put into these characters is still valid because they're both high tier characters by far.

    I ultimately chose no though because there's a difference between fixing unforeseen exploits and downright nerfing a character into obscurity. It's an old conversation, but characters like DS and BW don't even have a real use in the game anymore...and DS in particular is a character people paid big bucks for. What makes the topic a tough pill to swallow is Kabam's reasoning for nerfing these characters. They wanted people to shy away from one trick characters and diversify who they use, but then they release characters like Voodoo, Hyperion, Iceman, and even Blade. They nerfed certain characters and then released ones that essentially did the same things and then some.

    Nobody should kid themselves here... of the 100+ characters in the game, only 15-20 actually matter. This makes for a boring and stale gaming environment, when this game has the potential to be a thoughtful and strategic gaming experience.

    I think the real discussion is that Kabam should stop trying to pump out 2-3 characters every month, and take a period of time to rethink the 80% garbage characters the cast has and make them relevant. We shouldn't want to throw our phones across the room because we pull a She-Hulk or Iron Patriot.
  • WatdenWatden Posts: 54
    If kabam is allowed to buff champions, then they should be allowed to nerf them.

    A buff can be an indirect nerf to certain champions, and vice versa.

    The only argument I see here’s is how well they go nerfing and buffing said champions.

    In a business perspective (oh how people hate this phrase) not every character will be equally as good as each other. There needs to be a point to spend money on crystals.
    Stark spidey is a jackpot, she hulk is the bottom of the barrel, there has to be some type of balance.

    Whether or not a character is useable is up to you though. If a character can deserve a buff, a character can also deserve a nerf.
  • They're basically playing themselves if they are nerfing champs because what people accomplished with those champs it's basically pointless because it was already done and can't be undone
  • MasterSmokeMasterSmoke Posts: 281 ★★★
    No!
    They should just make the content harder
  • OndZOndZ Posts: 75
    Yes, here is my list of must nerfed champs:
    Ant-Man
    Iron Patriot
    Rhino
    Luke Cage
    Spider Gwen

    They all are super overpowered...
  • Balm82Balm82 Posts: 221
    Yes!
    Especially once people have spent real money and spent hours grinding for them. Nerf and state its not as we intended!! Then bring out a new version (Thor) and repeat the process!
  • Stark78AlfaStark78Alfa Posts: 502
    Yes, after all it is their game.

    The right question is: should you keep playing a game that upsets you so much?
  • 35six735six7 Posts: 31
    No!
    No! This is not the player’s mistake. Why people who were invested heavily on GP need to suffer the nerf. it’s like a restaurant customer having a generous amount of food on his table and then the chef comes out from the kitchen and takes away his plate. “Because I cooked too much for you, it’s my fault but you are not gonna have it.” Have you ever encountered that??
  • Yes!
    Hi all,thanks for all the answers,i see a lot of bright opinions here!I know its a tricky situation to see champs getting nerfed and it has its pros and cons!I agree that if needed then it has to happen as soon as possible from their release(maybe 1 month max?) and yes Kabam should do its best to test them as much as possible and take the most possible feedback from us during that early release period!I also agree that strong champs are needed to complete the thoughest content of the game and that those champs make you eager to open more and more crystals,but i also believe that if we can balance the "field" this game has the potential to be really great!

    Keep your bright opinions coming,i really believe nerfing and buffing champs is a very important subject of this game future.I also wish Kabam takes a couple of months to rethink most of the current champs instead of only adding new ones(which obviously is nice to see as well!).For the record i did heard that they are planning to buff some of the old champs which is good!
  • belli300belli300 Posts: 704 ★★★
    No!
    dolann__ wrote: »
    They should nerf blade
    I'm so butthurt, i didn't get him in featured 5*

    Stop it

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