Funny, I don't recall people complaining about Gamora before they buffed her.
"gamora could be great if she Can keep her buff like black bolt or x2 her durations.. it's so hard to play with her and kept buff" "Gamora's not the easiest champ to master in the whole game as her buffs fall off quite quickly" https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/265289/gamora
"I hope Gamora gets an increase to her buff and armor break duration" "Any predictions? I see Gamora getting easier access to keep up buffs besides heavy." "she needs more practical utility instead of sp3's true strike" "I hope very much that she becomes more practical " "raise the duration of her cruelty, true strike, and fury buffs. Maybe even just make it so the fury and cruelty buffs fall off 1 at a time" "Gamora needs access to True Strike much easier" https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1888807#Comment_1888807
"Gamora makes total sense for me. She has 0 utility except an 11 second true strike, she has a stressful playstyle for decent damage." (Referring to her march 2019 buff) "Well, Gamora sucks even post-buff, so she might be on par with KG and Venompool before their buffs." https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/276548/september-buffs
This is what I could find on the first few pages of searching just the forum. But yeah, nobody thought Gamora was lacking in utility or a good playstyle.
If you do enough searches, you can find people complain about anything here. You new?
"No one complained about Gamora, she was already decent to begin with."
*numerous examples of people complaining*
"UhM aCtUaLlY pEoPlE cOmPlAiN aBoUt EvErYtHiNg ThAt DoEsNt CoUnT"
"But...you said no one complains about her, and-"
"No YoUrE jUsT cOmPlAiNiNg fOr No ReAsOn StOp WhInInG REEEEEE"
See this? This is how we feel about you. That's how stupid your answers look like.
I'm talking about people complaining about the buff. It doesn't even make logical sense unless people are being poor sports. How is giving a Champ more ever a negative?
If you took drax and gave him 1% stronger furies. Would you say that’s giving a champion more so it’s not a negative?
I know I’m being extreme here but would you just humour me with a yes or no? This isn’t aimed as a gotcha or anything, just to understand your point of view more
@GroundedWisdom would you answer this please. I think it’s important to know where you stand on this so I can better explain our feelings around it.
In a technical sense, yes. 13% would be more than 12%. You don't need me to point that out.
So if Drax had a buff that took his fury potency up by 1% would you be making the same argument that you are today, where it is better than before, so you shouldn't complain?
@GroundedWisdom We’re voicing our opinions for the betterment of our community and positive future growth of the game. What you call needles complaining, we call constructive brainstorming. Hood would’ve been released without his fate seal reapplied to his kit if it wasn’t for our input/needless complaining. I would strongly disagree. Positive change comes with open minds and ideas.
That wasn't the same situation at all. They removed an aspect that people came to depend on. Nothing was removed here. They added benefit. The argument is it's "useless", which I don't agree with. The objections here are that the buff isn't dazzling enough to make people prefer her over others. So again, tell me how it's constructive to say the buff was useless?
You’re missing the point. Nobody is saying this is a Hood situation. Nobody is saying it’s useless, or if they are, then they mean it’s so close to nothing of value being added that the time is better spent elsewhere. You’re taking it too literally when someone says useless.
The point is that community feedback can change the game for the better. We gave feedback on hood and Kabam listened and changed it for the better.
Now, not to the same extent, but still similarly, we are giving our feedback on gamora and hopefully Kabam listen and change things for the better. I’m not expecting them to change gamora, but I’m hoping in the future we have fewer buffs that add very little of value to a champion.
So do you agree or disagree that community feedback can change Kabams mind?
I was responding to the comment that referenced Hood. You're trying too hard.
Huh? The reason they brought up Hood was to show that not everything Kabam does goes without feedback, and in this case we are giving our feedback too. Not to say that Gamora's buff was the same as Hood's buff. I'm trying to hold you to the points that people are making, instead of making up your own ones, reading people's comments wrong and responding to the twisted point you want to respond to.
Commenter - We want to give feedback on the game and make it better for the future, Hood is an example of when we did that, change comes on the back of feedback!
GW - Uh well Hood is a different situation to Gamora, Hood got something removed
Commenter - Oh yes, we know, we agree with you on that. They are different situations, but the principle is the same. If we give feedback then some things may change in future, whether that's difficulty of content, a buff like Hood's or a completely different buff like Gamora's!
GW - You're trying too hard
You see the disconnect? You're reading into people's comments and blindly missing points they make. The only thing I'm trying hard on, is to help you to see our point's of view that you seem so desperate to miss
Funny, I don't recall people complaining about Gamora before they buffed her.
"gamora could be great if she Can keep her buff like black bolt or x2 her durations.. it's so hard to play with her and kept buff" "Gamora's not the easiest champ to master in the whole game as her buffs fall off quite quickly" https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/265289/gamora
"I hope Gamora gets an increase to her buff and armor break duration" "Any predictions? I see Gamora getting easier access to keep up buffs besides heavy." "she needs more practical utility instead of sp3's true strike" "I hope very much that she becomes more practical " "raise the duration of her cruelty, true strike, and fury buffs. Maybe even just make it so the fury and cruelty buffs fall off 1 at a time" "Gamora needs access to True Strike much easier" https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1888807#Comment_1888807
"Gamora makes total sense for me. She has 0 utility except an 11 second true strike, she has a stressful playstyle for decent damage." (Referring to her march 2019 buff) "Well, Gamora sucks even post-buff, so she might be on par with KG and Venompool before their buffs." https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/276548/september-buffs
This is what I could find on the first few pages of searching just the forum. But yeah, nobody thought Gamora was lacking in utility or a good playstyle.
If you do enough searches, you can find people complain about anything here. You new?
"No one complained about Gamora, she was already decent to begin with."
*numerous examples of people complaining*
"UhM aCtUaLlY pEoPlE cOmPlAiN aBoUt EvErYtHiNg ThAt DoEsNt CoUnT"
"But...you said no one complains about her, and-"
"No YoUrE jUsT cOmPlAiNiNg fOr No ReAsOn StOp WhInInG REEEEEE"
See this? This is how we feel about you. That's how stupid your answers look like.
I'm talking about people complaining about the buff. It doesn't even make logical sense unless people are being poor sports. How is giving a Champ more ever a negative?
If you took drax and gave him 1% stronger furies. Would you say that’s giving a champion more so it’s not a negative?
I know I’m being extreme here but would you just humour me with a yes or no? This isn’t aimed as a gotcha or anything, just to understand your point of view more
@GroundedWisdom would you answer this please. I think it’s important to know where you stand on this so I can better explain our feelings around it.
In a technical sense, yes. 13% would be more than 12%. You don't need me to point that out.
So if Drax had a buff that took his fury potency up by 1% would you be making the same argument that you are today, where it is better than before, so you shouldn't complain?
When they're not actually taking anything away from his kit, sure. I'm going to make the point that it doesn't relate to Hood at all. Nothing was taken away from her. We can go around and around in circles, but the bottom line is it wasn't as much as people wanted. That's the issue here. People expected better/different changes, and they never got them. Feedback is one thing. Saying people aren't happy with it is fine. This idea that our expectations dictate how much of an impact that their adjustments make and it's up to us to "speak out" and not "let Kabam get away with it" is just dramatics. She's better than she was before, and still this is all on paper because it's not even live yet. Yet here we are, pages later, arguing it's not enough.
@BitterSteel I really appreciate the effort your putting into this trying to show GW what folks are saying, but i feel its a lost cause, he doesn't seem to have an interest in being fair when it comes to anyone on the forums saying anything he is against.
i sometimes find myself trying to relate to his point and see if perhaps he has a point, sometimes he does but then I'm disappointed to see him just dig in his heels after you've so kindly taken the time to try to explain everyone elses point of view.
much like Gamora's 2nd buff, a seemingly waste of time and effort.
Shaking your head your head? Lol. For real though, when the point is made that they might as well have not bothered, and that it does nothing, that's pretty petulant. Not to mention just because some don't use the L3 doesn't mean it can't be used. It's called play her differently than you're used to. Groundbreaking, I know.
Who said the goal was to make her "great"? Also, as I said before, it has very little to do with making her better than others. I'm seriously over the subject. The expectations are just not in sync with reality.
You don’t know when to stop or what? Yeah yeah, she got a buff (also a nerf) yet she’s very impractical In a fight that requires no specific utility, she will work but won’t be that fun as you’re forced to keep using your heavies to refresh buffs. In a fight that requires her utility: true strike & miss counter, she very impractical: you need L3 and 10 buffs respectively. Consider this fight Gamora vs Darkhawk. Darkhawk has autoblock and miss which her makes Gamora an excellent option but is she? You need L3 to access Darkhawk’s autoblock counter, 10 buffs to safely counter miss and heavies to refresh buffs. You really think she’s not stressful and impractical to use her utility?
Shaking your head your head? Lol. For real though, when the point is made that they might as well have not bothered, and that it does nothing, that's pretty petulant. Not to mention just because some don't use the L3 doesn't mean it can't be used. It's called play her differently than you're used to. Groundbreaking, I know.
@GroundedWisdom how would you prefer folks word it then? or would you just prefer folks not say anything at all?
from what i can see, all folks are saying is that Kabam spent the time buffing Gamora again and locking her utility behind a means(sp3) which isn't easily achievable in the matchups you would need said utility.
can you help us with the best way for us to deliver that information to Kabam that is also acceptable to you?
Not to mention just because some don't use the L3 doesn't mean it can't be used. It's called play her differently than you're used to. Groundbreaking, I know.
It's actually amazing how you can ignore points already brought up regarding why Evade/auto block counters on L3 are functionally impractical and try to shift blame to the way people play her which is a laughable excuse.
I would copy/paste the conversation already had on it but you'll ignore the points and deflect as usual. At least you're consistent in your nonsense
Shaking your head your head? Lol. For real though, when the point is made that they might as well have not bothered, and that it does nothing, that's pretty petulant. Not to mention just because some don't use the L3 doesn't mean it can't be used. It's called play her differently than you're used to. Groundbreaking, I know.
@GroundedWisdom how would you prefer folks word it then? or would you just prefer folks not say anything at all?
from what i can see, all folks are saying is that Kabam spent the time buffing Gamora again and locking her utility behind a means(sp3) which isn't easily achievable in the matchups you would need said utility.
can you help us with the best way for us to deliver that information to Kabam that is also acceptable to you?
People can say whatever they want. Just like I can say what my own thoughts are. I would suggest people actually wait and use her before they throw around judgments, but that never happens around here. Champs are released and they "suck" before they even get adequate testing and time in the game.
Shaking your head your head? Lol. For real though, when the point is made that they might as well have not bothered, and that it does nothing, that's pretty petulant. Not to mention just because some don't use the L3 doesn't mean it can't be used. It's called play her differently than you're used to. Groundbreaking, I know.
@GroundedWisdom how would you prefer folks word it then? or would you just prefer folks not say anything at all?
can you help us with the best way for us to deliver that information to Kabam that is also acceptable to you?
If I may speak on behalf of GW-this is how he wants us to give feedback: Gamora was an excellent champion with such amazing things as fury, cruelty, bleed, armor break, true strike, shock, god slayer strike on special attacks. Now kabam has buffed her to also be an amazing miss counter. This makes her truly OP. Thanks for the buff kabam. You knocked this out of the park yet again!!
Shaking your head your head? Lol. For real though, when the point is made that they might as well have not bothered, and that it does nothing, that's pretty petulant. Not to mention just because some don't use the L3 doesn't mean it can't be used. It's called play her differently than you're used to. Groundbreaking, I know.
bruh no one's arguing that people can't use her sp3. We are arguing about the practicallity of her utility that comes with the sp3.
Answer this, in an evade or auto-block matchup where you actually need true strike, how do you expect to reach the sp3? And if you have been able to reach the true strike, then what's the use of the true strike then? Countering armor and resistances?
In a matchup where you need a miss counter from the getgo, how do you expect to build up your buffs to 10 in the first place? Let alone constantly refreshing it.
And these two utilities are her only proper utilities.
Shaking your head your head? Lol. For real though, when the point is made that they might as well have not bothered, and that it does nothing, that's pretty petulant. Not to mention just because some don't use the L3 doesn't mean it can't be used. It's called play her differently than you're used to. Groundbreaking, I know.
@GroundedWisdom how would you prefer folks word it then? or would you just prefer folks not say anything at all?
from what i can see, all folks are saying is that Kabam spent the time buffing Gamora again and locking her utility behind a means(sp3) which isn't easily achievable in the matchups you would need said utility.
can you help us with the best way for us to deliver that information to Kabam that is also acceptable to you?
People can say whatever they want. Just like I can say what my own thoughts are. I would suggest people actually wait and use her before they throw around judgments, but that never happens around here. Champs are released and they "suck" before they even get adequate testing and time in the game.
If a champion was buffed and they had an ability that triggered on 1000 hits I feel like you'd say wait and see how to works in game
Shaking your head your head? Lol. For real though, when the point is made that they might as well have not bothered, and that it does nothing, that's pretty petulant. Not to mention just because some don't use the L3 doesn't mean it can't be used. It's called play her differently than you're used to. Groundbreaking, I know.
@GroundedWisdom how would you prefer folks word it then? or would you just prefer folks not say anything at all?
from what i can see, all folks are saying is that Kabam spent the time buffing Gamora again and locking her utility behind a means(sp3) which isn't easily achievable in the matchups you would need said utility.
can you help us with the best way for us to deliver that information to Kabam that is also acceptable to you?
People can say whatever they want. Just like I can say what my own thoughts are. I would suggest people actually wait and use her before they throw around judgments, but that never happens around here. Champs are released and they "suck" before they even get adequate testing and time in the game.
thats fair, folks probably shouldnt rush to using those terms since the buff isnt live.
but as for the feedback portion, we are taking what we have on paper from the spotlight and trying to convey that the utility given to Gamora isnt practical for matchups where its needed.
so are you saying folks should ignore the spotlight until the buff is live before providing feedback?
at least by providing feedback up front, it may spark a conversation where they can provide some insight into how its acceptable to have her utility behind the sp3.
on a different note, i wasnt happy to see that Diablo is able to get a straight heal throughout the fight when running suicides with nothing to affect the WP regen when DDHK had his regen rate lowered because it would be too OP since DDHK has easy access to a non-damaging debuff.
i thought that was perhaps an oversight on Kabams part, some were very vocal about how Kabam knows what they are doing and that it was intentional, i disagreed, but ultimately it became clear that was the case.
i've now accepted this fact, do i like it? no. but i understand it was a game decision Kabam felt good about making.
@GroundedWisdom i suggest using gamora before making comments. I know you like to babble on with conjectures and anecdotes without actual experience. I have an r2 gamora,, duped. She is very fun, but the rampup is incredibly hard and impractical because of the refresh rate. You need to heavy, and her heavy has a terrible reach ( if you actually know heavy intercepting). For folks who actually use gamora, we needed either of the two things. 1) ability to chain heavy from a combo 2) atleast 18-20 second buff duration, with ability to increase. currently her playstyle is impractical and unsustainable. She has just a lot of damage, with a very tough way to keep it up. Maybe open up your account, and take your 4* for a spin.
Maybe reduce potency of her buffs a little but increase their duration by a significant amount to make a difference. Add true strike and miss counter at base from the start of the fight.
Shaking your head your head? Lol. For real though, when the point is made that they might as well have not bothered, and that it does nothing, that's pretty petulant. Not to mention just because some don't use the L3 doesn't mean it can't be used. It's called play her differently than you're used to. Groundbreaking, I know.
@GroundedWisdom how would you prefer folks word it then? or would you just prefer folks not say anything at all?
from what i can see, all folks are saying is that Kabam spent the time buffing Gamora again and locking her utility behind a means(sp3) which isn't easily achievable in the matchups you would need said utility.
can you help us with the best way for us to deliver that information to Kabam that is also acceptable to you?
People can say whatever they want. Just like I can say what my own thoughts are. I would suggest people actually wait and use her before they throw around judgments, but that never happens around here. Champs are released and they "suck" before they even get adequate testing and time in the game.
thats fair, folks probably shouldnt rush to using those terms since the buff isnt live.
Here's the thing about waiting for buffs to go live, there are different situations with buffs. Sometimes, they change so much that you don't know how it's all going to fit together and work out, and sometimes so little has functionally changed that you can see, or even test how things can work. Gamora has 3 changes, higher proc chance/faster max duration of buffs, true strike refreshing and miss counter on 10 buffs.
You know that 9-14 seconds is too stressful to play because it’s what gamora has in game today. You can go and test this right now.
You know that 10 buffs is too many for a miss counter? Because you can go and test this now, go into a miss match up and let me know how long it takes for you to get to 10 buffs. An average of 30 medium or light hits, along with heavy attacks to refresh buffs get those ten buffs is far too much for any realistic miss match up. When I tried it took 75 hits.
You know that her true strike is bad design because in any evade match up, by the time you get to an sp3 you’re probably dead. You need a counter straight away, or as close to that as possible. Go into an evade match up now and try and get to an sp3 with gamora and let me know how functional it feels.
So why exactly do we need to wait for it to be live?
Anything less than her “true strike” in L1 and another means of refreshing her buffs beside heavy is kinda useless IMO. [Alternative is either heavy into combo (with a refresh timer like Elsa), pausing buffs like OG black panther’s might or Stealth Spidey’s passive fury also works]. With another inbuilt means of extending her buff duration maybe true strike in L2 can be tolerated still not the best idea but at least a middle ground.
There are a few things Kabam could have done to make this current buff so much better for players if they insist on keeping it as is.
The obvious one is more duration on her buffs. 15 seconds to start plus the 60% over the fight isn't game breaking.
I'm thinking something else actually they could have done (tho she ain't out yet so we don't even know but I doubt). A simple fix would be to give her a brand new heavy attack. The main issue is not being able to refresh her buffs but if they really wanted to, a new heavy could actually make this so much easier.
Her current heavy attack has average range to punish other heavy attacks and specials but some champs in game straight to lung across the screen like they have Commando in MW2 (yall get that joke?). Tigra, Venom, Falcon, OG Guilly, etc etc are champs with some long range Heavy attacks and if Gamora had something like that at least players can say she rewards skillful gameplay and it would make her buff maintaining much easier in so many fights.
Another thing they could have added was having her able to pause her buffs. Maybe her heavy attack paused her buffs for idk 6 seconds. Maybe during specials attacks, maybe after every special she used, maybe after 5 hits they get paused for even 2-3 seconds. SOMETHING else would have been great.
Shaking your head your head? Lol. For real though, when the point is made that they might as well have not bothered, and that it does nothing, that's pretty petulant. Not to mention just because some don't use the L3 doesn't mean it can't be used. It's called play her differently than you're used to. Groundbreaking, I know.
@GroundedWisdom how would you prefer folks word it then? or would you just prefer folks not say anything at all?
from what i can see, all folks are saying is that Kabam spent the time buffing Gamora again and locking her utility behind a means(sp3) which isn't easily achievable in the matchups you would need said utility.
can you help us with the best way for us to deliver that information to Kabam that is also acceptable to you?
People can say whatever they want. Just like I can say what my own thoughts are. I would suggest people actually wait and use her before they throw around judgments, but that never happens around here. Champs are released and they "suck" before they even get adequate testing and time in the game.
thats fair, folks probably shouldnt rush to using those terms since the buff isnt live.
Here's the thing about waiting for buffs to go live, there are different situations with buffs. Sometimes, they change so much that you don't know how it's all going to fit together and work out, and sometimes so little has functionally changed that you can see, or even test how things can work. Gamora has 3 changes, higher proc chance/faster max duration of buffs, true strike refreshing and miss counter on 10 buffs.
You know that 9-14 seconds is too stressful to play because it’s what gamora has in game today. You can go and test this right now.
You know that 10 buffs is too many for a miss counter? Because you can go and test this now, go into a miss match up and let me know how long it takes for you to get to 10 buffs. An average of 30 medium or light hits, along with heavy attacks to refresh buffs get those ten buffs is far too much for any realistic miss match up. When I tried it took 75 hits.
You know that her true strike is bad design because in any evade match up, by the time you get to an sp3 you’re probably dead. You need a counter straight away, or as close to that as possible. Go into an evade match up now and try and get to an sp3 with gamora and let me know how functional it feels.
So why exactly do we need to wait for it to be live?
@BitterSteel i'm with you 100% on everything and yes the feedback should be shared before the buff goes live in the hopes Kabam can revisit sooner rather than later.
my statement was more in line with GW having a problem with folks using "dramatics" to provide feedback.
i was trying to see if there was anyway he would be OK with folks providing feedback and it seemed to me he thinks the feedback is invalid if anyone says the buff based on the spotlight "sucks" or use other overly "dramatic" verbiage.
Shaking your head your head? Lol. For real though, when the point is made that they might as well have not bothered, and that it does nothing, that's pretty petulant. Not to mention just because some don't use the L3 doesn't mean it can't be used. It's called play her differently than you're used to. Groundbreaking, I know.
@GroundedWisdom how would you prefer folks word it then? or would you just prefer folks not say anything at all?
from what i can see, all folks are saying is that Kabam spent the time buffing Gamora again and locking her utility behind a means(sp3) which isn't easily achievable in the matchups you would need said utility.
can you help us with the best way for us to deliver that information to Kabam that is also acceptable to you?
People can say whatever they want. Just like I can say what my own thoughts are. I would suggest people actually wait and use her before they throw around judgments, but that never happens around here. Champs are released and they "suck" before they even get adequate testing and time in the game.
thats fair, folks probably shouldnt rush to using those terms since the buff isnt live.
Here's the thing about waiting for buffs to go live, there are different situations with buffs. Sometimes, they change so much that you don't know how it's all going to fit together and work out, and sometimes so little has functionally changed that you can see, or even test how things can work. Gamora has 3 changes, higher proc chance/faster max duration of buffs, true strike refreshing and miss counter on 10 buffs.
You know that 9-14 seconds is too stressful to play because it’s what gamora has in game today. You can go and test this right now.
You know that 10 buffs is too many for a miss counter? Because you can go and test this now, go into a miss match up and let me know how long it takes for you to get to 10 buffs. An average of 30 medium or light hits, along with heavy attacks to refresh buffs get those ten buffs is far too much for any realistic miss match up. When I tried it took 75 hits.
You know that her true strike is bad design because in any evade match up, by the time you get to an sp3 you’re probably dead. You need a counter straight away, or as close to that as possible. Go into an evade match up now and try and get to an sp3 with gamora and let me know how functional it feels.
So why exactly do we need to wait for it to be live?
@BitterSteel i'm with you 100% on everything and yes the feedback should be shared before the buff goes live in the hopes Kabam can revisit sooner rather than later.
my statement was more in line with GW having a problem with folks using "dramatics" to provide feedback.
i was trying to see if there was anyway he would be OK with folks providing feedback and it seemed to me he thinks the feedback is invalid if anyone says the buff based on the spotlight "sucks" or use other overly "dramatic" verbiage.
I get you! It does seem that GW just seems very set against any feedback given. I struggle to see any way he’d be ok with us giving feedback
If you NEED a Miss counter for a hard match up. Would that make getting to 10 buffs even harder for Gamora?
Picture you're fighting some Act 7 boss with miss and you're using Gamora, you're at 6 buffs and playing well but the issue is how and when are you gonna get to do her heavy attacks anyway? Maybe her heavy attack will idk... MISS the enemy during that 10 buff build, making it even harder to get to 10 buffs vs a match up she's supposed to counter.
If you NEED a Miss counter for a hard match up. Would that make getting to 10 buffs even harder for Gamora?
Picture you're fighting some Act 7 boss with miss and you're using Gamora, you're at 6 buffs and playing well but the issue is how and when are you gonna get to do her heavy attacks anyway? Maybe her heavy attack will idk... MISS the enemy during that 10 buff build, making it even harder to get to 10 buffs vs a match up she's supposed to counter.
The issue is I’m all for making a champion less useful than others. I’m not saying make her miss counter as good as Prof X, or Torch. But make it usable, it’s hard enough to get to and keep up 10 buffs in a normal match up, let alone one where you’re going to be missing. Imagine fighting IW, refreshing your buffs by knocking her down and she goes invisible, how does that help if you’re below 10 buffs? You want to fight tunnel vision? You need to build you buffs by using Medium and light attacks, but you miss, because you can’t build the buffs, and you need the miss counter to get 10 buffs.
Fighting darkhawk, you can’t knock him down to refresh your buffs, so you can’t get your counter.
The falter node after 10 hits, you’ll trigger it 7 times before you get to 10 buffs and by that time the fight is over. Not to mention your heavy is 4 of those ten hits, and in the meantime your buffs might fall off.
When you start to think about it, it’s so incredibly impractical that it just is bad design. No other conclusion.
If you NEED a Miss counter for a hard match up. Would that make getting to 10 buffs even harder for Gamora?
Picture you're fighting some Act 7 boss with miss and you're using Gamora, you're at 6 buffs and playing well but the issue is how and when are you gonna get to do her heavy attacks anyway? Maybe her heavy attack will idk... MISS the enemy during that 10 buff build, making it even harder to get to 10 buffs vs a match up she's supposed to counter.
The issue is I’m all for making a champion less useful than others. I’m not saying make her miss counter as good as Prof X, or Torch. But make it usable, it’s hard enough to get to and keep up 10 buffs in a normal match up, let alone one where you’re going to be missing. Imagine fighting IW, refreshing your buffs by knocking her down and she goes invisible, how does that help if you’re below 10 buffs? You want to fight tunnel vision? You need to build you buffs by using Medium and light attacks, but you miss, because you can’t build the buffs, and you need the miss counter to get 10 buffs.
Fighting darkhawk, you can’t knock him down to refresh your buffs, so you can’t get your counter.
The falter node after 10 hits, you’ll trigger it 7 times before you get to 10 buffs and by that time the fight is over. Not to mention your heavy is 4 of those ten hits, and in the meantime your buffs might fall off.
When you start to think about it, it’s so incredibly impractical that it just is bad design. No other conclusion.
yup, getting her to that 10 buffs in actual matches with Miss is gonna make it extra hard. Same for evade and auto block.
So because she's complicated for DH, you think the buff (not nerf) did nothing? Honestly, has anyone here used her post-buff? No? I haven't.
You fail to see OP point. While she has the ability to counter dark hawks auto block, she has to reach a sp3 and deal with him like any other champ, and because he’s auto blocking, it would be difficult for her to gain buffs to counter his miss. This applies to any champ that autoblocks or miss such as IMIW, medusa, nova, professor x, ebony maw, guilly 2099, etc. Want to wait to see how that works too? She doesn’t have to be the best cosmic, we just want her to be playable.
Kabam, just don’t go live with this one it’s a complete fail. If this happened during the 3 buff system you could have gotten away with this but 2 buffs system, Gamora buff is absolutely useless you shouldn’t have touched her at all and used that time on someone else. Listen to feedback and her the buff worth it and practical. The game is frustrating enough right now. Do this right to just show us some good faith with the 2 buffs system.
Comments
Commenter - We want to give feedback on the game and make it better for the future, Hood is an example of when we did that, change comes on the back of feedback!
GW - Uh well Hood is a different situation to Gamora, Hood got something removed
Commenter - Oh yes, we know, we agree with you on that. They are different situations, but the principle is the same. If we give feedback then some things may change in future, whether that's difficulty of content, a buff like Hood's or a completely different buff like Gamora's!
GW - You're trying too hard
You see the disconnect? You're reading into people's comments and blindly missing points they make. The only thing I'm trying hard on, is to help you to see our point's of view that you seem so desperate to miss
We can go around and around in circles, but the bottom line is it wasn't as much as people wanted. That's the issue here. People expected better/different changes, and they never got them. Feedback is one thing. Saying people aren't happy with it is fine. This idea that our expectations dictate how much of an impact that their adjustments make and it's up to us to "speak out" and not "let Kabam get away with it" is just dramatics. She's better than she was before, and still this is all on paper because it's not even live yet. Yet here we are, pages later, arguing it's not enough.
i sometimes find myself trying to relate to his point and see if perhaps he has a point, sometimes he does but then I'm disappointed to see him just dig in his heels after you've so kindly taken the time to try to explain everyone elses point of view.
much like Gamora's 2nd buff, a seemingly waste of time and effort.
For real though, when the point is made that they might as well have not bothered, and that it does nothing, that's pretty petulant. Not to mention just because some don't use the L3 doesn't mean it can't be used. It's called play her differently than you're used to. Groundbreaking, I know.
Yeah yeah, she got a buff (also a nerf) yet she’s very impractical
In a fight that requires no specific utility, she will work but won’t be that fun as you’re forced to keep using your heavies to refresh buffs.
In a fight that requires her utility: true strike & miss counter, she very impractical: you need L3 and 10 buffs respectively.
Consider this fight Gamora vs Darkhawk.
Darkhawk has autoblock and miss which her makes Gamora an excellent option but is she?
You need L3 to access Darkhawk’s autoblock counter, 10 buffs to safely counter miss and heavies to refresh buffs. You really think she’s not stressful and impractical to use her utility?
from what i can see, all folks are saying is that Kabam spent the time buffing Gamora again and locking her utility behind a means(sp3) which isn't easily achievable in the matchups you would need said utility.
can you help us with the best way for us to deliver that information to Kabam that is also acceptable to you?
Honestly, has anyone here used her post-buff? No? I haven't.
I would copy/paste the conversation already had on it but you'll ignore the points and deflect as usual. At least you're consistent in your nonsense
Gamora was an excellent champion with such amazing things as fury, cruelty, bleed, armor break, true strike, shock, god slayer strike on special attacks. Now kabam has buffed her to also be an amazing miss counter. This makes her truly OP. Thanks for the buff kabam. You knocked this out of the park yet again!!
Answer this, in an evade or auto-block matchup where you actually need true strike, how do you expect to reach the sp3? And if you have been able to reach the true strike, then what's the use of the true strike then? Countering armor and resistances?
In a matchup where you need a miss counter from the getgo, how do you expect to build up your buffs to 10 in the first place? Let alone constantly refreshing it.
And these two utilities are her only proper utilities.
but as for the feedback portion, we are taking what we have on paper from the spotlight and trying to convey that the utility given to Gamora isnt practical for matchups where its needed.
so are you saying folks should ignore the spotlight until the buff is live before providing feedback?
at least by providing feedback up front, it may spark a conversation where they can provide some insight into how its acceptable to have her utility behind the sp3.
on a different note, i wasnt happy to see that Diablo is able to get a straight heal throughout the fight when running suicides with nothing to affect the WP regen when DDHK had his regen rate lowered because it would be too OP since DDHK has easy access to a non-damaging debuff.
i thought that was perhaps an oversight on Kabams part, some were very vocal about how Kabam knows what they are doing and that it was intentional, i disagreed, but ultimately it became clear that was the case.
i've now accepted this fact, do i like it? no. but i understand it was a game decision Kabam felt good about making.
I have an r2 gamora,, duped. She is very fun, but the rampup is incredibly hard and impractical because of the refresh rate. You need to heavy, and her heavy has a terrible reach ( if you actually know heavy intercepting).
For folks who actually use gamora, we needed either of the two things.
1) ability to chain heavy from a combo
2) atleast 18-20 second buff duration, with ability to increase.
currently her playstyle is impractical and unsustainable. She has just a lot of damage, with a very tough way to keep it up.
Maybe open up your account, and take your 4* for a spin.
Easily a good champion with these changes alone.
You know that 9-14 seconds is too stressful to play because it’s what gamora has in game today. You can go and test this right now.
You know that 10 buffs is too many for a miss counter? Because you can go and test this now, go into a miss match up and let me know how long it takes for you to get to 10 buffs. An average of 30 medium or light hits, along with heavy attacks to refresh buffs get those ten buffs is far too much for any realistic miss match up. When I tried it took 75 hits.
You know that her true strike is bad design because in any evade match up, by the time you get to an sp3 you’re probably dead. You need a counter straight away, or as close to that as possible. Go into an evade match up now and try and get to an sp3 with gamora and let me know how functional it feels.
So why exactly do we need to wait for it to be live?
The obvious one is more duration on her buffs. 15 seconds to start plus the 60% over the fight isn't game breaking.
I'm thinking something else actually they could have done (tho she ain't out yet so we don't even know but I doubt). A simple fix would be to give her a brand new heavy attack. The main issue is not being able to refresh her buffs but if they really wanted to, a new heavy could actually make this so much easier.
Her current heavy attack has average range to punish other heavy attacks and specials but some champs in game straight to lung across the screen like they have Commando in MW2 (yall get that joke?). Tigra, Venom, Falcon, OG Guilly, etc etc are champs with some long range Heavy attacks and if Gamora had something like that at least players can say she rewards skillful gameplay and it would make her buff maintaining much easier in so many fights.
Another thing they could have added was having her able to pause her buffs. Maybe her heavy attack paused her buffs for idk 6 seconds. Maybe during specials attacks, maybe after every special she used, maybe after 5 hits they get paused for even 2-3 seconds. SOMETHING else would have been great.
my statement was more in line with GW having a problem with folks using "dramatics" to provide feedback.
i was trying to see if there was anyway he would be OK with folks providing feedback and it seemed to me he thinks the feedback is invalid if anyone says the buff based on the spotlight "sucks" or use other overly "dramatic" verbiage.
If you NEED a Miss counter for a hard match up. Would that make getting to 10 buffs even harder for Gamora?
Picture you're fighting some Act 7 boss with miss and you're using Gamora, you're at 6 buffs and playing well but the issue is how and when are you gonna get to do her heavy attacks anyway? Maybe her heavy attack will idk... MISS the enemy during that 10 buff build, making it even harder to get to 10 buffs vs a match up she's supposed to counter.
Fighting darkhawk, you can’t knock him down to refresh your buffs, so you can’t get your counter.
The falter node after 10 hits, you’ll trigger it 7 times before you get to 10 buffs and by that time the fight is over. Not to mention your heavy is 4 of those ten hits, and in the meantime your buffs might fall off.
When you start to think about it, it’s so incredibly impractical that it just is bad design. No other conclusion.