Champions that should be tagged as Dimensional Beings

Mordo - pulls/channels power from other dimensions. SP3 moves champions into Mirror Dimension
Nightcrawler - His father is a Demon and every time he teleports he opens a portal into a different Dimension
Unstoppable Colossus - Powered by the demonic gem of Cyttorak (Dimensional Being)
Juggernaut - Powered by the demonic gem of Cyttorak (Dimensional Being)

Comments

SpiritOfVengeance

Yeah but juggs can just simply take it off right?

LocoMotives

Nope. Entering dimensions does not make you dimensional. Channeling a dimensional being does not make you dimensional. If Cyttorak or Agamotto were champs, then they ought to be.

Rotelly

@LocoMotives what makes Magik dimensional then?

Jaded

Nightcrawler’s dad was a mutant that looked like a demon....

Rotelly

In-game description has Nightcrawler's described as a half-demon mutant with fathers demonic appearance

Jaded

Rotelly wrote: »

In-game description has Nightcrawler's described as a half-demon mutant with fathers demonic appearance

Regardless he isn’t a dimensional mutant

Rotelly

How is Magik a dimensional mutant then?

JozielPN

Rotelly wrote: »

@LocoMotives what makes Magik dimensional then?

She has ruled over demons and the Limbo dimension in the comics. She was basically the queen of hell.

G0311

Don't forget the collector.

G0311

SpiritOfVengeance wrote: »

Yeah but juggs can just simply take it off right?

Then there goes his powers

SpiritOfVengeance

Making him not a true dimensional being.

G0311

SpiritOfVengeance wrote: »

Making him not a true dimensional being.

True but while he is using it, then it effects, unless they give him a new move where takes it off, but blade would just take him out lol

unknown

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DNA3000

ArmandStar wrote: »

first we should agree on what makes someone a dimensional being

I'm not sure there is a great definition of one. The list of champions tagged to be a dimensional being seems to be Dormammu, Mephisto, Morningstar, Hood, Ghost Rider, and Magik.

My best guess is that a dimensional being is one that can be considered a native of an extradimensional plane. Although Magik was originally born on Earth, she lived in Limbo for years and ruled it as its queen, making her a reasonable native of Limbo. And while the mortal form of Ghost Rider is usually human, the actual GR being is an extradimensional demon.

It gets iffy for Morningstar and Hood. Technically, deep in the backstory for Hood it is said that he is sometimes possessed by Dormammu. Presumably that is the form he takes when he uses SP3. So it could be said that he is *sometimes* a dimensional being, at least the version of him that is in the game is. Morningstar requires a small leap: you have to assume that the form Morningstar currently takes is not her original form empowered by Mephisto, but actually a form created by Mephisto for her soul to inhabit. That would make her body a construct of Mephisto, and thus a dimensional being.

That is subtly different from Juggernaut who is empowered by Cyttorak but is not possessed by an extradimensional being nor is he a construct of an extradimensional being.

TheBlackDefense

To also throw in there nightcrawler can be considered a dimensional being because his father Azazel is actually a demon and his mom is a mutant on his dad's side (where he gets his look that's why he look's the way he does if his dad was a mutant he'd look human) his father is from the dimension NC goes through when he teleports the neyaphrm heritage NC had is he can be considered a dimensionAL big

313rd

Love this discussion

MegaVolts

Me too. What about phoenix?

Ashburn

Yo momma's so fat she should be counted as a dimensional being

DNA3000

TheBlackDefense wrote: »

To also throw in there nightcrawler can be considered a dimensional being because his father Azazel is actually a demon and his mom is a mutant on his dad's side (where he gets his look that's why he look's the way he does if his dad was a mutant he'd look human) his father is from the dimension NC goes through when he teleports the neyaphrm heritage NC had is he can be considered a dimensionAL big

Nightcrawler appears to be the anti-Magik. Magik is a human born on Earth but because she spent her formative years in Limbo and ruled it as a native, she can be considered an extradimensional native. However, depending on sources, Nightcrawler is the son of Azazel who comes from a race of human mutants who were exiled to another dimension. Because Nightcrawler is biologically human (a human mutant) and because he was himself raised on Earth and has lived his entire life basically in the Earth dimension, he is not considered an extradimensional being.

An extradimensional being (for the purposes of this discussion) appears to have to be one of the following: a member of a race of natively extradimensional beings that actually have a significant connection to that dimension, a being that lived as a native in another dimension and is significantly empowered by it, or fundamentally an extradimensional construct.

Nightcrawler is not a native of another dimension and while his father is, his father is not a member of a race of extradimensional beings. If my mother moved to Limbo and then gave birth to me there but I was raised on Earth, I would not be an extradimensional being under MCOC rules as they currently appear. However, if my father was Mephisto, then maybe I would be. Azazel is essentially a descendant of an exiled Earthling, so his children are not automatically extradimensional beings under this theory.

DNA3000

Reinstag wrote: »

Me too. What about phoenix?

The Phoenix force is an energy being that lives in the Earth dimension, so I don't think it would count as an extradimensional being. It is a cosmic being, but not from an alternate dimension (in the game).

caligarelinquo

One thing that I have noticed is that the developers of this game are not going to be literal with the characters they bring. That is to say, what we know from comics are not going to be the same word for word in this game down to the last detail. For example, Phoenix gets her power from the sun, if you remember from the animated xmen of 1992(best show ever), she dives into the sun and emerges unharmed and full of power. Yet, in the game she is not immune to incinerate. So, yes the comic book version of these beloved champs will be much different from their game-play counterparts in the contest.

MegaVolts

@caligarelinquo it could be because jean grey is one with the phoenix force, and so technically the phoenix force is left with the weaknesses of having a human being as an avatar. If it was only the cosmic being then it should be immune. But i agree it will make more sense for her to be immune to incinerate. Plus her sig ability in the game doesnt make sense. When ressurected under a debuff, she still has the debuff active. The debuff should be gone I would assume after she is revived.

@DNA3000 ok gotcha. Didnt she exist in different time dimensions? Maybe not. Or it could be that she is eternal and existed in just the one time dimension.

DNA3000

caligarelinquo wrote: »

One thing that I have noticed is that the developers of this game are not going to be literal with the characters they bring. That is to say, what we know from comics are not going to be the same word for word in this game down to the last detail. For example, Phoenix gets her power from the sun, if you remember from the animated xmen of 1992(best show ever), she dives into the sun and emerges unharmed and full of power. Yet, in the game she is not immune to incinerate. So, yes the comic book version of these beloved champs will be much different from their game-play counterparts in the contest.

I think you are misremembering. First of all, the Phoenix does not get her power from the Sun. The Phoenix is a cosmic force that, depending on which version of the story you're going off of, either inhabits or takes the form of the person of Phoenix. The Phoenix force is indestructible and essentially omnipotent, which is why flying into the Sun doesn't harm her. In the comic books, the Phoenix destroys a star during the Dark Phoenix story line. In the animated series, if I recall correctly, the Phoenix flew into the Sun to hide the M'kraan crystal.

In either case, for obvious reasons essentially omnipotent and invulnerable characters are going to be modified for the game. Phoenix, Ghost Rider, Mephisto, and Dormammu all fall into this category.

I have to emphasize: Phoenix, along with Ghost Rider, Dormammu, and Mephisto, should not be immune to incinerate based on their comic book status. They should be utterly immune to all forms of material damage. The only thing that can kill those beings is a comic book author that wants them dead.

DNA3000

Reinstag wrote: »

@DNA3000 ok gotcha. Didnt she exist in different time dimensions? Maybe not. Or it could be that she is eternal and existed in just the one time dimension.

I don't think alternate timelines are considered extra dimensional in either the comic books or the game. This gets hazy, and this is comic book physics not physics physics, but the term "extra dimensional" usually refers to an alternate plane of existence. Alternative timelines are usually considered alternate versions of the same plane of existence.

Both Cable and Old Man Logan come from alternate timelines, but those timelines exist within the same basic "version" of reality. That's considered different from Limbo, the Dark Dimension, and other completely different realms of reality.

The Phoenix and the Phoenix force is probably one of the most retconned things in all of comic book history. So it is difficult to say which of the things said about it in the past are still relevant to the things said in the present, and in other media. One definite constant, though, is that it takes a literal cosmic amount of power to so much as make a dent in it/her, and even then the only real way to defeat it is to cause it to choose to give up rather than expend the energy necessary to stop you.

The Phoenix in various forms has been shown to be comparable in power to the Celestials, Galactus, pre-retcon Beyonder. On the other hand, sometimes she trips on the sidewalk. That's the problem with reading too close to the lines in comic books.

Dr_ARCHer

I don’t think there is any “formal” definition of a dimension. I may be wrong here, but in the comics, sometimes dimensions refer to alternate realities. If so, then any hero not from the Earth 616 ‘dimension’ would be considered as dimensional beings.

Hulk_77

Dr_ARCHer wrote: »

I don’t think there is any “formal” definition of a dimension. I may be wrong here, but in the comics, sometimes dimensions refer to alternate realities. If so, then any hero not from the Earth 616 ‘dimension’ would be considered as dimensional beings.

Well then, that make Gwenpool and Punisher 2099 and a bunch of others dimensional beings. I don't think that's in line with the intent of the power.

However, I do think that it should cover Nightcrawler, Juggs, and UC. He should sense the dimensional presence.

Rotelly

Any chance we can get a mod to chime in with a response?

KhanMedina

If Hood is, then Juggs and UC should be too.

Rotelly

@Kabam Miike can anyone provide insight into why champs are flagged as dimensional?

DNA3000

Dr_ARCHer wrote: »

I don’t think there is any “formal” definition of a dimension. I may be wrong here, but in the comics, sometimes dimensions refer to alternate realities. If so, then any hero not from the Earth 616 ‘dimension’ would be considered as dimensional beings.

There's no "formal" definition of "dimension" in Marvel comics, but we can take reasonable guesses as to what the phrase "dimensional being" means given the champs that were tagged as such.

Its not like the phrase "dimensional being" is a thing that we can judge whether Kabam is using the term correctly. But we can see if the things they call dimensional beings appears to be self-consistent. But if anyone decides to check to see if Kabam is following their own personal preconceived notions of what a dimensional being is, they'll likely be disappointed.