What exactly is causing the t5b imbalance for end gamers? Let's take a look...

2

Comments

  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 1,985 ★★★★

    Any who disagree wish to say why? If you have an opinion on the topic or believe anything stated is inaccurate, I'd like to hear it.

    I agree wit you regarding the ratios. Ignore the disagrees, they are from the disagree spammers who have nothing else to do.
    Left a disagree :heart:
    Hey, I thank you for the ♥️at least. If not letting me know why. I'll take it. 🙂
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Posts: 1,975 ★★★★★
    edited January 5
    This would have been easily remedied with the glory store being updated at the season switch. They chose not to, and the reasons given were nonsense. Every other AQ season I could find had an update. Every midseason but one had an update. Furthermore, you get the same 3400 glory in peak milestones whether you have 300,000,000 or 599,999,999 points. This is also bad. At 600mil, it jumps to 4000 glory. Kabam should be doing the following:

    Add glory in increments of 100 for each milestone up to 600mil
    Reduce t5b cost for TB to 700, and increase the buy to 9000 frags
    Make the 5% t5cc purchase limit 2 and lower the cost to 900.

    Right now I get 4700 glory. I spend 4650 on 5% t5cc, 45% t5b, and half a t2a.

    My proposed changes would get me 4900-5000 glory, which would turn into 10% t5cc (1850 glory at 900+950) and 80% t5b (3100 total, 700+750+800+850 glory).
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 1,985 ★★★★
    Adevati said:

    Pretty much every game I’ve ever played has resources that are more rare than others leading to overflow of the “common” resource.

    MMORPGs where you let items rot because you don’t need them ring a bell?

    Making careful decisions on who to rank up should always be a part of this game (or any game). Games where you drown in resources and don’t have to work very hard for certain resources are empty and boring.

    That said, what is your solution? Increase T5B? So now we can all rank up at a much faster rate removing the satisfaction of working towards a specific rank up or the decision factor? Or do we lower T2A artificially and keep rank ups at the same rate?

    How is this “problem” being brought up with anything other than the intention of, “I want to rank up more champs faster.”?

    I can't speak for everyone, but I'll give you my position. My position is that as we all progress, there's always a resource to chase. Right? That's how the game works and what makes it continue to be interesting. Great, I love it. I like having something to work towards. In 2017/18 it was t2a. In 2018/19 it was t5b. In 2020/21 it was t5c. In 2022 and beyond, it will be t6b and t3a... and on we go.

    What I find unacceptable is for a 2018 resource to be my bottle neck as an end game player in 2022. My bottle neck should be r4 6 star material at this point... not a resource that was introduced in 2018. I just can't get behind the idea of rehashing/recycling a past bottle neck from 4 years ago. It's lazy, cheap game design tbh.

    We've been there and done that. All of us who are experiencing this issue already paid our dues regarding t5b. We all chased it once already. Years ago... and already went through the struggle to obtain it once. That's why we're unhappy about it. Do I think there needs to be a limit on how many and what quality of rank ups you can do? Of course. But the way to limit it should be the highest materials and not one that is 4 years old.

    As for your question regarding the solution. I think the solution is to offer a reasonable way to get the correct ratio. As for the amounts, they can decide what is balanced. The main focus of my video was the ratio. Which is somewhere between 3-4 to 1. Anyone who is focused on 6 star progression, should be earning roughly 2/1. As that is what 6 stars require. Just change the ratio and I'll leave the amount up to them.
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 1,985 ★★★★

    If it wasn’t for this “imbalance” I wouldn’t be able to seriously participate in the level up event because all my 5s are r3 or higher. Believe it or not people rank 5s with their t2a, so I welcome all the t2a I can earn and will even buy it in the glory store at times.

    The t5b is “rarer” because that’s the rate Kabam wants you to rank up the highest ranks of champions with incentive to spend on offers built in to the equation; It’s part of the free to play model.

    If it wasn’t for this “imbalance” I wouldn’t be able to seriously participate in the level up event because all my 5s are r3 or higher. Believe it or not people rank 5s with their t2a, so I welcome all the t2a I can earn and will even buy it in the glory store at times.

    The t5b is “rarer” because that’s the rate Kabam wants you to rank up the highest ranks of champions with incentive to spend on offers built in to the equation; It’s part of the free to play model.

    Players who are involved in competitive game modes can't always spare the t4b and c that both 5 and 6 star champs require. It basically will stunt the progression of your 6 roster if your 5 stars are using up their resources.
    It takes 15 (of the same class, obviously) t5c to take a 6 from 1-3. That can add up real quick given the random nature of the crystals.

    Surely we at least agree about the t5b value in the TB Glory store though yeah? It's tragically outdated imo.
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 1,985 ★★★★
    edited January 5
    Fenico said:

    Any who disagree wish to say why? If you have an opinion on the topic or believe anything stated is inaccurate, I'd like to hear it.

    I mean you said you took closer look at ratios and then you just said it is bad. Some more concrete info would be helpful I think.

    Don't take me wrong, I agree that t5b shortage is really bad but some more evidence would be nice.
    Thanks for posting. Did you watch the video? It's 8 minutes long. So hopefully it's enough information using the actual in game menus to show what I'm talking about. I didn't want to make it any longer than it is already. 🙃
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 1,985 ★★★★
    Mauled said:

    I've got 23 T2A in my overflow currently. Obviously it'll drop a bit when I R3 Here next week but I'm still getting T2A far more quickly than I get T5B. I'm going to have to R4 a few 5* to get it under control or let them expire which I'd rather not do. Luckily I've got a few 5* that I do want to put a couple of resources into just to play around - Nimrod, Cull and SW, but it's a bit of a toss up whether I value a R4 SW over the 1m gold I'll spend on her...

    Exactly, and it's not just the gold. Using t4b and c on 5 stars is a big ask.
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 1,985 ★★★★
    Adevati said:

    Pretty much every game I’ve ever played has resources that are more rare than others leading to overflow of the “common” resource.

    MMORPGs where you let items rot because you don’t need them ring a bell?

    Making careful decisions on who to rank up should always be a part of this game (or any game). Games where you drown in resources and don’t have to work very hard for certain resources are empty and boring.

    That said, what is your solution? Increase T5B? So now we can all rank up at a much faster rate removing the satisfaction of working towards a specific rank up or the decision factor? Or do we lower T2A artificially and keep rank ups at the same rate?

    How is this “problem” being brought up with anything other than the intention of, “I want to rank up more champs faster.”?

    I'd respond, but I think it's been asked and answered quite well by others already. May we ask your current roster and content progression level? Just for a better picture of your own personal experience in the game and how it may affect your view point?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 30,843 ★★★★★
    While I wouldn't say it's an outright lack of management, I would say that it's a byproduct of elective focus. No matter what level someone is at, there will be bottleneck Resources. Simply put, we will never have everything we need in abundance. The higher the Rarity, the larger the deficiency will become. By design, it's supposed to take more to Rank higher Rarities and Ranks. There's also the fact that Players focus only on 6*s after a certain point, and the game isn't designed to balance one Rarity alone. It's designed to pace growth at a descending rate. Not to mention, Ranking a bit at a time is easier on flow than R1 to R3 and up in one sitting. There are multiple factors at play, and I wouldn't necessarily agree the issue is lack of Basics.
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 1,985 ★★★★
    edited January 6

    While I wouldn't say it's an outright lack of management, I would say that it's a byproduct of elective focus. No matter what level someone is at, there will be bottleneck Resources. Simply put, we will never have everything we need in abundance. The higher the Rarity, the larger the deficiency will become. By design, it's supposed to take more to Rank higher Rarities and Ranks. There's also the fact that Players focus only on 6*s after a certain point, and the game isn't designed to balance one Rarity alone. It's designed to pace growth at a descending rate. Not to mention, Ranking a bit at a time is easier on flow than R1 to R3 and up in one sitting. There are multiple factors at play, and I wouldn't necessarily agree the issue is lack of Basics.

    Hey, glad you could make it. Unfortunately, I've just used a large portion of my energy for writing extremely long winded speeches to respond to DNA (I may have actually out done him in comment length this time 😛). Please do refer to this for most of my thoughts on this matter. 🙂
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,832 ★★★★★

    If it wasn’t for this “imbalance” I wouldn’t be able to seriously participate in the level up event because all my 5s are r3 or higher. Believe it or not people rank 5s with their t2a, so I welcome all the t2a I can earn and will even buy it in the glory store at times.

    The t5b is “rarer” because that’s the rate Kabam wants you to rank up the highest ranks of champions with incentive to spend on offers built in to the equation; It’s part of the free to play model.

    If it wasn’t for this “imbalance” I wouldn’t be able to seriously participate in the level up event because all my 5s are r3 or higher. Believe it or not people rank 5s with their t2a, so I welcome all the t2a I can earn and will even buy it in the glory store at times.

    The t5b is “rarer” because that’s the rate Kabam wants you to rank up the highest ranks of champions with incentive to spend on offers built in to the equation; It’s part of the free to play model.

    Players who are involved in competitive game modes can't always spare the t4b and c that both 5 and 6 star champs require. It basically will stunt the progression of your 6 roster if your 5 stars are using up their resources.
    It takes 15 (of the same class, obviously) t5c to take a 6 from 1-3. That can add up real quick given the random nature of the crystals.

    Surely we at least agree about the t5b value in the TB Glory store though yeah? It's tragically outdated imo.
    Well I’m involved in all competitive game modes and can always spare the t4 mats and I wouldn’t say my 6 star roster has been stunted, quite the opposite in fact, the use of those materials improves my ability to acquire 6 stars. Also my resource management allows me to have the materials on hand to rank up any 6 star at will as long as I am not stacking the same class of 6*s to rank up.

    And nope; I will never agree to hyperbole but it will be updated in time; and players will decry it as falling short; f2p model and what not. You’ll drive yourself nuts if you continue thinking Kabam is doing anything but carefully metering out end stage resources in a deliberate fashion.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 15,155 Guardian

    I don't mind bottle necks or limitations placed on me regarding the advancement of my account. On the contrary, I think it's essential for the game to succeed. I'm simply saying I would much prefer if these points of struggle along the road to progress were encountered, overcome by dedication and hard work and then then fell behind us. So we can focus on the next obstacle to overcome, indefinitely. I've already overcome the obstacles of t4cc (to rank my 4 stars), t2a, t5b, t5c, respectively. I don't wish to have them rehashed or recycled. I wish to move forward and struggle for the next resources.

    I get that. I had an almost identical conversation with Brian (Grant) a while back. I think this viewpoint makes sense for progressional content. I don't think it makes as much sense for roster development. Content can be discontinuous, but I don't think that works as well for roster development. Champions have to overlap in strength, so players can transition at their own pace from one rarity to the next (player skill, for example, strongly influences this). Because the rarities overlap in strength, they generally have to overlap in resource requirements, because while different players will have different ratios of emphasis between adjoining rarities, they are likely to be doing similar content. in other words, the player who has a pretty good 5* roster but is just beginning to develop their 6* roster is likely to be doing the same Cavalier content as the player who has a very strong 6* roster and has mostly phased out ranking 5* champs. Their rank up decisions might be different, but there's only one Cavalier difficulty.

    We *could* make all rarities just require completely different resources, but that would pressure players to abandon lower rarities before they were really ready to do so. Players who couldn't just do everything would have to choose whether to invest all their time into the higher tier - and almost certainly more expensive - roster growth or stick with the more efficient, but less powerful resources that are only good for the lower rarity and have zero benefit towards higher ones. There would be far less opportunities for players who wanted to balance effort between them.

    Plus, that's just not how resource management games tend to work. Progressional games are about overcoming obstacles. Resource management games are about balancing constraints. This game includes elements of both. The progressional side is about moving on. The resource management side is all about continuous maintenance. Like it or not, that's just how those things work. Back in the day there were people who used to say they loved MMOs, but wondered why the games couldn't give players the tools to customize their experience. Like if everyone else wanted to do that but I don't, why can't I just be allowed to play the game however I want. And I believe the answer ultimately was: because that's a single player experience. No one who wants to make a game where everyone can do whatever they want makes multiplayer games, they make single player games. I believe the same thing holds true when it comes to resource management. No one who wants people to be able to beat a resource constraint once and then never have to deal with it again makes resource management games. They make games with resource gates but not resource management.
  • ReferenceReference Posts: 2,829 ★★★★★
    When you overcome T5b shortage, you will then face T3a shortage issue.
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 1,985 ★★★★
    Reference said:

    When you overcome T5b shortage, you will then face T3a shortage issue.

    Do you mean for the first time or for the second or third time later down the road in 2024/25? Struggling to aquire t3a for the first time is where I am now. And where I should be. The first time struggle, I don't mind that's a natural part of the game. I just don't want to work my way up to a steady flow of t3 one day in the future (say r2 7 stars meta) and then have t3a a resource from 3-4 years ago prevent me from ranking 7 stars. If that makes any sense:)
  • AdevatiAdevati Posts: 221 ★★★

    Adevati said:

    Pretty much every game I’ve ever played has resources that are more rare than others leading to overflow of the “common” resource.

    MMORPGs where you let items rot because you don’t need them ring a bell?

    Making careful decisions on who to rank up should always be a part of this game (or any game). Games where you drown in resources and don’t have to work very hard for certain resources are empty and boring.

    That said, what is your solution? Increase T5B? So now we can all rank up at a much faster rate removing the satisfaction of working towards a specific rank up or the decision factor? Or do we lower T2A artificially and keep rank ups at the same rate?

    How is this “problem” being brought up with anything other than the intention of, “I want to rank up more champs faster.”?

    I'd respond, but I think it's been asked and answered quite well by others already. May we ask your current roster and content progression level? Just for a better picture of your own personal experience in the game and how it may affect your view point?
    My account is largely irrelevant to this discussion. My opinions stem from playing a lot of games over the years. And in every single game I’ve played that has some economy system of resources, common resources are wasted or ignored due to an abundance while farming for the more rare resource that everyone desires.

    My opinions are also derived from the sentiment of this thread that the solution to this manufactured “problem” is being rewarded more of the uncommon resource leading to faster rank ups/progression. People in this thread literally want Kabam to speed up progression because they can’t stomach expiring resources.

    A mismatch in availability of resources is 100% by design and happens throughout all progression levels.

    I’m not going to outline my progression. But I do have 20 T2A and 5 T5B in my overflow. And in no way does that make me feel entitled to more T5B.
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 1,985 ★★★★
    Adevati said:

    Adevati said:

    Pretty much every game I’ve ever played has resources that are more rare than others leading to overflow of the “common” resource.

    MMORPGs where you let items rot because you don’t need them ring a bell?

    Making careful decisions on who to rank up should always be a part of this game (or any game). Games where you drown in resources and don’t have to work very hard for certain resources are empty and boring.

    That said, what is your solution? Increase T5B? So now we can all rank up at a much faster rate removing the satisfaction of working towards a specific rank up or the decision factor? Or do we lower T2A artificially and keep rank ups at the same rate?

    How is this “problem” being brought up with anything other than the intention of, “I want to rank up more champs faster.”?

    I'd respond, but I think it's been asked and answered quite well by others already. May we ask your current roster and content progression level? Just for a better picture of your own personal experience in the game and how it may affect your view point?
    My account is largely irrelevant to this discussion. My opinions stem from playing a lot of games over the years. And in every single game I’ve played that has some economy system of resources, common resources are wasted or ignored due to an abundance while farming for the more rare resource that everyone desires.

    My opinions are also derived from the sentiment of this thread that the solution to this manufactured “problem” is being rewarded more of the uncommon resource leading to faster rank ups/progression. People in this thread literally want Kabam to speed up progression because they can’t stomach expiring resources.

    A mismatch in availability of resources is 100% by design and happens throughout all progression levels.

    I’m not going to outline my progression. But I do have 20 T2A and 5 T5B in my overflow. And in no way does that make me feel entitled to more T5B.
    Thanks for answering. Your progression in mcoc is relevant. As it lets us know exactly where you are in the process that happens over years. And what you may or may not have been through yet regarding the difference phases of progression and the different bottle necks experienced along the way. Those of us commenting on this topic generally speaking have played this game for 4-7 years now. Daily for some of us. So we are well versed in the economy of this game over the years. We've been through each and every bottle neck this game has had. It varies for each progression level. And then sometimes repeats itself for a second or third time. Which is mainly why I was asking. And, it's not a case of us just needing to be educated on the subject of resource economy.

    I think where we're missing each other is we're not simply talking about mismatched amounts of resources. We're talking about "old resources" being intentionally recycled into sought after resources, sometimes actual years later. We're not into that type of design and are expressing this. However, I do appreciate the information about having t5b in overflow. That does let us know that you are in a completely different situation. You are likely in need of characters. Rather than having a lot of characters and having a lot of actual high tier rank up materials (t5cc is a total non-issue) only to be limited by a lower tier resource that was introduced 4 years ago. Which is the situation we're not into.
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 1,985 ★★★★
    edited January 6
    Perhaps I've made a mistake by initially focusing on the ratio of t2a to t5b awarded to end game players in recurring content (brand new top AQ map). Maybe it would have been better to instead look at the ratio of t5b to t5c instead. It becomes a different debate at that point.

    Me personally, I'm currently at 6 t5c and 1 t5b. Which means I would need 24x my current amount of t5b to use my t5c. Not twice as many or 3,4 or 10 times as many, but 24 times as many.
  • ReferenceReference Posts: 2,829 ★★★★★

    Reference said:

    When you overcome T5b shortage, you will then face T3a shortage issue.

    Do you mean for the first time or for the second or third time later down the road in 2024/25? Struggling to aquire t3a for the first time is where I am now. And where I should be. The first time struggle, I don't mind that's a natural part of the game. I just don't want to work my way up to a steady flow of t3 one day in the future (say r2 7 stars meta) and then have t3a a resource from 3-4 years ago prevent me from ranking 7 stars. If that makes any sense:)
    I mean the T5b shortage is pretty similar to T1a/T2a shortage 3-4 years ago. I'm not endgamer but I understand the frustration when you sit with a lot of T2a (and some even expiring soon) yet you don't have sufficient T5b for rank up 6*. For me, I'm sitting with 5 T5cc and I don't know when I can obtain enough resources to r3 another 6*. Currently I only have 1 T5b.......and I'm not interested in rank-up via cash.

    Frankly if Kabam introduce 7* I think its probably mark the end of my journey in this game. I'm interested in champ collection and use them to tackle some tough contents, but I'm not very interested in gathering those rank-up resources since the launch of 6*. It's repetitive process for me and I think I won't return to high tier alliance because of rank-up materials.
  • awesomesauceawesomesauce Posts: 774 ★★★
    Kind of off-topic, but the point a few people brought up was ranking/leveling 5* and below.
    I made the suggestion sometime ago in another thread that I think there should be a discount on resources required in order to R5 say a 4*.

    Obviously for thronebreakers like myself, this isn't going to change anything for really 99% of the game for me, but when it comes down to the fact that it takes 8 t4b to r3-r5 a 4* champion, OR R2 a 6* champion for less t4b, the logical choice is there.

    However, I'm a fairly heavy arena grinder, and there's specific champs I like to play around with regardless of rarity.

    So I think that a "discount" on rank ups would be justifiable, even if it's only a minimal amount.

    Either that, or remove the t4b requirements on 6* R2s. It's silly. You dont need t3b to R2 a 5* champ. (Resource for R4ing a 3*)
    Just like you don't need t1b to R2 a 4* champ. (Same resource to max out a 2*)

    It's silly that we're using such outdated resources for ranking up.

    Then at that point, if less t4b is needed, summoners could sell for a fraction of t5b to help with the ratio of earned resources.
  • Hector_1475Hector_1475 Posts: 1,268 ★★★★
    Please define who are “you, the end game players”’. Not that I include myself in this group, but I have no issue balancing my T5BC and my T2A. Gold has been more of an issue for me. But I would like to know…
  • Monk1Monk1 Posts: 704 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    I don't mind bottle necks or limitations placed on me regarding the advancement of my account. On the contrary, I think it's essential for the game to succeed. I'm simply saying I would much prefer if these points of struggle along the road to progress were encountered, overcome by dedication and hard work and then then fell behind us. So we can focus on the next obstacle to overcome, indefinitely. I've already overcome the obstacles of t4cc (to rank my 4 stars), t2a, t5b, t5c, respectively. I don't wish to have them rehashed or recycled. I wish to move forward and struggle for the next resources.

    I get that. I had an almost identical conversation with Brian (Grant) a while back. I think this viewpoint makes sense for progressional content. I don't think it makes as much sense for roster development. Content can be discontinuous, but I don't think that works as well for roster development. Champions have to overlap in strength, so players can transition at their own pace from one rarity to the next (player skill, for example, strongly influences this). Because the rarities overlap in strength, they generally have to overlap in resource requirements, because while different players will have different ratios of emphasis between adjoining rarities, they are likely to be doing similar content. in other words, the player who has a pretty good 5* roster but is just beginning to develop their 6* roster is likely to be doing the same Cavalier content as the player who has a very strong 6* roster and has mostly phased out ranking 5* champs. Their rank up decisions might be different, but there's only one Cavalier difficulty.

    We *could* make all rarities just require completely different resources, but that would pressure players to abandon lower rarities before they were really ready to do so. Players who couldn't just do everything would have to choose whether to invest all their time into the higher tier - and almost certainly more expensive - roster growth or stick with the more efficient, but less powerful resources that are only good for the lower rarity and have zero benefit towards higher ones. There would be far less opportunities for players who wanted to balance effort between them.

    Plus, that's just not how resource management games tend to work. Progressional games are about overcoming obstacles. Resource management games are about balancing constraints. This game includes elements of both. The progressional side is about moving on. The resource management side is all about continuous maintenance. Like it or not, that's just how those things work. Back in the day there were people who used to say they loved MMOs, but wondered why the games couldn't give players the tools to customize their experience. Like if everyone else wanted to do that but I don't, why can't I just be allowed to play the game however I want. And I believe the answer ultimately was: because that's a single player experience. No one who wants to make a game where everyone can do whatever they want makes multiplayer games, they make single player games. I believe the same thing holds true when it comes to resource management. No one who wants people to be able to beat a resource constraint once and then never have to deal with it again makes resource management games. They make games with resource gates but not resource management.
    I have to disagree with some of this and my main issue comes back to a lack of available t5b across all content - this is compared to both t2a and even 5tcc now.

    There is just no way to acquire more from any live regular content (which I have done all of).

    Put into perspective that I have not brought a single shard of t2a with glory in 5/6 months. I am sat in a pile of aq crystals and have 9 full t5cc.

    Yet if I were to every pull a herc from this feature then I need 7!!!! T5b to rank him up. In time acquiring those I would probably get about 45 more t2a on top of the 50 odd I already have..

    I don’t see how you can spend them - and yes I even ranked a 5* to r4 this week as had 4 expiring 😞

    At least we get a chunk of them from gifting rewards later.. but even 1-10% in both ally/solo gives me only 7.. enough for a single r3. We are moving to a t4 world, it is no longer 2020.
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Posts: 1,975 ★★★★★
    “Explain why this isn’t just you wanting to rank champs faster.”

    The glory store is busted. Newly UC players shouldn’t be getting their marquee resource at the price as TB players.

    Each rankup has less marginal utility than the one before it - the difference between having 0 and 5 champs at 5/65 is huge. The difference between 30 and 35 is near zero.

    This is made even worse because of nerfed growth at r3 and beyond. The jump in attack/HP is very small but very expensive. Someone trying to run act 7 100% with a deep roster arguably has an easier time taking four extra 6-stars to r2 than taking 3 existing r2 champs to r3. That’s bad design.
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Posts: 1,975 ★★★★★
    edited January 6
    Reference said:

    When you overcome T5b shortage, you will then face T3a shortage issue.

    Progression resources are not bottleneck resources. T3a is a roadblock towards a new level of champ at the cutting edge of the game. Thronebreaker players have three “more valuable” resources than t5b now but Kabam is rationing t5b by offering it in quantities that don’t align with other needed resources.

    The failure to update the glory store was basically unprecedented. It was already bad on the day it started, but allowing it to remain is worse. My theory: Kabam realized that the best way to sustain the game was to flood uncollected players with t5b. It lets them hit cavalier faster. They can boost prestige quickly. They can compete in alliance modes with players who built rosters in scarcer times. This infusion creates a larger pool of relative peers to keep alliances full and functional.
  • 2StarKing2StarKing Posts: 673 ★★★
    T4B and T2A are my bottleneck. T5B, I have a steady supply.
  • AdevatiAdevati Posts: 221 ★★★

    Adevati said:

    Adevati said:

    Pretty much every game I’ve ever played has resources that are more rare than others leading to overflow of the “common” resource.

    MMORPGs where you let items rot because you don’t need them ring a bell?

    Making careful decisions on who to rank up should always be a part of this game (or any game). Games where you drown in resources and don’t have to work very hard for certain resources are empty and boring.

    That said, what is your solution? Increase T5B? So now we can all rank up at a much faster rate removing the satisfaction of working towards a specific rank up or the decision factor? Or do we lower T2A artificially and keep rank ups at the same rate?

    How is this “problem” being brought up with anything other than the intention of, “I want to rank up more champs faster.”?

    I'd respond, but I think it's been asked and answered quite well by others already. May we ask your current roster and content progression level? Just for a better picture of your own personal experience in the game and how it may affect your view point?
    My account is largely irrelevant to this discussion. My opinions stem from playing a lot of games over the years. And in every single game I’ve played that has some economy system of resources, common resources are wasted or ignored due to an abundance while farming for the more rare resource that everyone desires.

    My opinions are also derived from the sentiment of this thread that the solution to this manufactured “problem” is being rewarded more of the uncommon resource leading to faster rank ups/progression. People in this thread literally want Kabam to speed up progression because they can’t stomach expiring resources.

    A mismatch in availability of resources is 100% by design and happens throughout all progression levels.

    I’m not going to outline my progression. But I do have 20 T2A and 5 T5B in my overflow. And in no way does that make me feel entitled to more T5B.
    Thanks for answering. Your progression in mcoc is relevant. As it lets us know exactly where you are in the process that happens over years. And what you may or may not have been through yet regarding the difference phases of progression and the different bottle necks experienced along the way. Those of us commenting on this topic generally speaking have played this game for 4-7 years now. Daily for some of us. So we are well versed in the economy of this game over the years. We've been through each and every bottle neck this game has had. It varies for each progression level. And then sometimes repeats itself for a second or third time. Which is mainly why I was asking. And, it's not a case of us just needing to be educated on the subject of resource economy.

    I think where we're missing each other is we're not simply talking about mismatched amounts of resources. We're talking about "old resources" being intentionally recycled into sought after resources, sometimes actual years later. We're not into that type of design and are expressing this. However, I do appreciate the information about having t5b in overflow. That does let us know that you are in a completely different situation. You are likely in need of characters. Rather than having a lot of characters and having a lot of actual high tier rank up materials (t5cc is a total non-issue) only to be limited by a lower tier resource that was introduced 4 years ago. Which is the situation we're not into.
    Nice, you not only predicted my progression but also how long I’ve been playing simply by my overflow.

    And now I’m supposedly not capable of understanding the issue yet I’d get more rank up materials all the same with the proposals listed here and speeding up my progression.

    All because of FOMO due to expiring materials.
  • pseudosanepseudosane Posts: 2,393 ★★★★★
    Adevati said:

    Adevati said:

    Adevati said:

    Pretty much every game I’ve ever played has resources that are more rare than others leading to overflow of the “common” resource.

    MMORPGs where you let items rot because you don’t need them ring a bell?

    Making careful decisions on who to rank up should always be a part of this game (or any game). Games where you drown in resources and don’t have to work very hard for certain resources are empty and boring.

    That said, what is your solution? Increase T5B? So now we can all rank up at a much faster rate removing the satisfaction of working towards a specific rank up or the decision factor? Or do we lower T2A artificially and keep rank ups at the same rate?

    How is this “problem” being brought up with anything other than the intention of, “I want to rank up more champs faster.”?

    I'd respond, but I think it's been asked and answered quite well by others already. May we ask your current roster and content progression level? Just for a better picture of your own personal experience in the game and how it may affect your view point?
    My account is largely irrelevant to this discussion. My opinions stem from playing a lot of games over the years. And in every single game I’ve played that has some economy system of resources, common resources are wasted or ignored due to an abundance while farming for the more rare resource that everyone desires.

    My opinions are also derived from the sentiment of this thread that the solution to this manufactured “problem” is being rewarded more of the uncommon resource leading to faster rank ups/progression. People in this thread literally want Kabam to speed up progression because they can’t stomach expiring resources.

    A mismatch in availability of resources is 100% by design and happens throughout all progression levels.

    I’m not going to outline my progression. But I do have 20 T2A and 5 T5B in my overflow. And in no way does that make me feel entitled to more T5B.
    Thanks for answering. Your progression in mcoc is relevant. As it lets us know exactly where you are in the process that happens over years. And what you may or may not have been through yet regarding the difference phases of progression and the different bottle necks experienced along the way. Those of us commenting on this topic generally speaking have played this game for 4-7 years now. Daily for some of us. So we are well versed in the economy of this game over the years. We've been through each and every bottle neck this game has had. It varies for each progression level. And then sometimes repeats itself for a second or third time. Which is mainly why I was asking. And, it's not a case of us just needing to be educated on the subject of resource economy.

    I think where we're missing each other is we're not simply talking about mismatched amounts of resources. We're talking about "old resources" being intentionally recycled into sought after resources, sometimes actual years later. We're not into that type of design and are expressing this. However, I do appreciate the information about having t5b in overflow. That does let us know that you are in a completely different situation. You are likely in need of characters. Rather than having a lot of characters and having a lot of actual high tier rank up materials (t5cc is a total non-issue) only to be limited by a lower tier resource that was introduced 4 years ago. Which is the situation we're not into.
    Nice, you not only predicted my progression but also how long I’ve been playing simply by my overflow.

    And now I’m supposedly not capable of understanding the issue yet I’d get more rank up materials all the same with the proposals listed here and speeding up my progression.

    All because of FOMO due to expiring materials.
    Basically, your viewpoint is that, hey, let them expire. That is it. You have rehashed it a bunch already.
    The reason that is not a great option and is different from other games is that we are encouraged NOT to waste any resources. Over my 6 years playing, i havent wasted a single resource in MCOC.And yes, I play other games as well. MCOC has a system to make use of all the resources you get. But recently, the t2a situation is out of sync with other materials, causing this issue. For endgamers, even the t1a influx can be managed by r2ing 5* to eat up 5 t1a easily, but t2a requires t4cc which is very instrumental in 6* progression, all the way to r3.
  • EtherealityEthereality Posts: 683 ★★★
    I think this problem is deliberately put in the game by design. Kabam WANTS to stifle your 6* progression by forcing you to spend on ranking tour 5*. Why? Come think of it, it's very smart of them to do so because:

    - Being in a constant state of frustration because "if only I had a couple of t5b more...!" Makes you want to keep grinding on the game just to precisely get those missing resources. More time you feel you NEED to play the game to accomplish something on it is a win for Kabam.

    - 16 t2a in overflow, no t5b but ... surprisingly Kabam put up an "offer" of 100 bucks for 4 t4b. And you go " Yes' I MUST buy this so that way I can have my next R3 and not let 8 t2a go to waste!!!! Already 8 will go to waste (or into R4 5* , more on that later)...so you buy the offer and that's another win for Kabam.

    - Because you dont want 8 t2a to go to waste then you go ahead and r4 two 5* that you would otherwise never even consider ranking. This is also a major win for Kabam in two fronts:
    a) It forces you to spend gold and iso8 that you would otherwise prefer using on a 6*, but alas, since you can't then you use it on a 5* , stifling your 6* progression cuz whenever you do get the cats to use on a 6*, them chances are that you might also need to grind arena for gold. Making you spend time on the game grinding arena= Win for Kabam. Making it not that easy for anyone just to R2 and R3 any champ as they please = also a win for Kabam because you'll feel you either have to PLAY the game (or better still, SPEND REAL MONEY on it) to progress the champs you want.

    b) Maybe you r4 5* Night Trasher just to use up expiring T2a, not because you particularly want to. But then theres some CAV EQ ( or quest node or whatever) on which it so happens that for whatever reason NT is the single best counter in the game. So you go ahead and bring NT "just for kicks" on the Cav EQ or whatever and wow! You realize what an underrated champion he is. At the same time you realize by happenstance how his CGR and Mr. Fantastic Synergy makes CGR (which also happens to be your best/favorite/only r3 ) even more OP than he already is. So whatcha gonna go do next? Well of course, hunt for the 6* NT!! Because you are at a point in a game where you realize that R5'ing 5* is no longer a smart long term investment. And you realized all this because you happened to have ranked r4 that NT just to avoid 4 t2a going down the drain. Making you aspire/ hunt for a 6* champ that would otherwise never have crossed your radar? Yet ANOTHER win for Kabam.

    So you see, your t5b shortage IS ON PURPOSE, it’s in the game by design. And I am not even writing this post to trash/blame Kabam for it. I actually admire SOME of the really crafty schemes they come up with in order to keep us hooked with the game...SOME of them are quite smart. I have to emphasize the SOME of them because Kabam does also have a track record of coming up with schemes that backfire disastrously and make us rather NOT want to play the game. Add that to the persistent bugs (specially parry bug) and I will even go ahead and say that perhaps currently there are more things in the game that makes us NOT want to play the game, unbalanced with the ones that keep us hooked.... which is dangerous for any game. However, imho, t5b shortage is not one of the things that I have a gripe with, I actually think it is a pretty smart way to stifle progression, and believe it it or not, doing so is good for the game in the long term. Making 6* progression too easy would be unhealthy for the game because peeps would have less reasons to play/grind/chase things in the game, and that's foreboding for a game coffin.

    TL;DR

    The t5b shortage is in by design to make you actually feel there are things to chase/aspire for in the game. In this sense, MCoC is not unlike a casino. And no, I do not mean it in the Prof. Hoff sense ... that guy keeps complaining that crystals are casino-like and I go " Yes, it says so in the description of the item, so your point is????? (Smh)". When I say that MCoC is like a casino is because by design, in addition to whatever addictive potential a roulette or slot machine may have, Casinos are constructed to make such potential to easily arise. For example, have you ever wondered why casinos don't have clocks, actual windows, and lighting is carefully controlled to make it look that it's always the same time of the day even if you have been there 24h? It's because messing with the usual ways for perceiving the passing of time is a way to keep you inside in the casino. Same goes with giving you free drinks, etc... they have a LONG list of crafty schemes to keep you there. Whatever they can do to keep you IN the casino is a win for them because the more you are in it, the bigger the chance for the addictive potential of a slot machine, etc. to exert its effect on you . So whatever crafty way Kabam can come up to keep you playing the game is a win for them ... and if you are enjoying the game, then its good for you too because it helps the longevity of the game.

    So, in conclusion, the problem is not the t5b shortage or any of the many other crafty and successful mechanisms MCOC has to keep you hooked. I personally believe that it's about time people stop complaining and understand that if they think they are "playing" a game by Kabam , then they are 100% wrong. It's the other way around, you are not playing a game , instead .... KABAM IS PLAYING YOU. It really is that simple.

    So the key point is to sit down and think: " Am I having more fun than frustration when Kabam plays me with their game?" If the answer is "yes" then keep playing and/or spending on it and having fun. If the answer is "no" then that's a sure sign that the time has come to delete the game from your phone and search for greener pastures.

    Particularly, the last 6 months of the game have made me slowly, but surely, tilt my answer to the above question closer to a "no". It's not a complete "no" yet but who knows in 3-6 months how I'll feel. I've ben playing since the game's release, and in two separate occasions I've quit once for 9 months and 13 months the latest. The start of the pandemic is what made me play again after my last quit. So my advice is that if you are feeling more frustrated than fun by the way Kabam has been playing you (while making you think that you are playing their game) then take a time off. It'll all be alright regardless whether you come back later or not.


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