**Mastery Loadouts**
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.

Introducing the next Campaign Progression Level: Paragon!

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Comments

  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,018 ★★★★★
    Asmondena said:

    What is the complaint?
    This title is for the absolute highest level.
    Every TB shouldn’t expect to instantly become Paragon.
    Anyone that has 100% act 7 should have two rank 4s, even free to play.
    Act 7 is fairly easy. Act 7 isn’t even half as hard as act 6.
    Act 6 was hell made into a mobile game.

    That's the problem, every person who is upset with this thinks it should apply to them right now because they won't have access day 1.
  • SwarmOfRavensSwarmOfRavens Posts: 1,264 ★★★★★
    Asmondena said:

    What is the complaint?
    This title is for the absolute highest level.
    Every TB shouldn’t expect to instantly become Paragon.
    Anyone that has 100% act 7 should have two rank 4s, even free to play.
    Act 7 is fairly easy. Act 7 isn’t even half as hard as act 6.
    Act 6 was hell made into a mobile game.

    TIL 100% act 7 gives two r4.
    Where do I claim the second one?
  • Madman_marvinMadman_marvin Posts: 648 ★★★★
    edited April 2022

    Asmondena said:

    What is the complaint?
    This title is for the absolute highest level.
    Every TB shouldn’t expect to instantly become Paragon.
    Anyone that has 100% act 7 should have two rank 4s, even free to play.
    Act 7 is fairly easy. Act 7 isn’t even half as hard as act 6.
    Act 6 was hell made into a mobile game.

    That's the problem, every person who is upset with this thinks it should apply to them right now because they won't have access day 1.
    I’ve 100% Act 7 and would only have 1 R4 if I used my R4 science gem I got for exploration. Beyond that, I’m no where near close to a second one. I don’t even have a whole t6b or t3a. So no, not everyone that has explored Act 7 has two R4s.
  • Deandc43Deandc43 Posts: 56
    Okay, I am slightly confused. Is it you need:
    To obtain the designation of Paragon, you must complete Act 7 Chapter 4, and have 3x Rank 4 6-Star Champions in your Roster.

    OR is it:
    With that in mind, we made sure that on day 1, it was possible to do for a Summoner that has:
    Completed all of the Story Content in-game
    Completed all of last year’s Summer of Pain objectives
    Completed Carina’s Challenges (Volumes 1 and 2),
    Plays in a higher tier competitive Alliance
    Purchased the Unit offer at the end of Act 7 Chapter 4

    or is it either?

  • nelsonroanelsonroa Posts: 16
    Where am I going to get 3 r4 of 6* if they don't make the materials available! just one for exploring the act! I'm not one of those patients who do the carina challenge
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,254 ★★★★★
    nelsonroa said:

    I'm not one of those patients who do the carina challenge

    If you want to get 3 rank 4s you should probably start doing the content that gives resources to rank them
  • gohard123gohard123 Posts: 998 ★★★
    Please do not lock Eternity of Pain content behind this progression title. It only further widens the gap.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,018 ★★★★★

    Asmondena said:

    What is the complaint?
    This title is for the absolute highest level.
    Every TB shouldn’t expect to instantly become Paragon.
    Anyone that has 100% act 7 should have two rank 4s, even free to play.
    Act 7 is fairly easy. Act 7 isn’t even half as hard as act 6.
    Act 6 was hell made into a mobile game.

    That's the problem, every person who is upset with this thinks it should apply to them right now because they won't have access day 1.
    I’ve 100% Act 7 and would only have 1 R4 if I used my R4 science gem I got for exploration. Beyond that, I’m no where near close to a second one. I don’t even have a whole t6b or t3a. So no, not everyone that has explored Act 7 has two R4s.
    Then you haven't done everything else to get the R4 mats. 🤷
  • StellarStellar Posts: 1,069 ★★★★
    I think there was the same complain about ThroneBreaker title when Kabam announced it....

    Kabam changed nothing and now no one complain anymore about the requirements to become Thronebreaker.

    it will be the same with the Paragon title !
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,660 Guardian
    Deandc43 said:

    Okay, I am slightly confused. Is it you need:
    To obtain the designation of Paragon, you must complete Act 7 Chapter 4, and have 3x Rank 4 6-Star Champions in your Roster.

    OR is it:
    With that in mind, we made sure that on day 1, it was possible to do for a Summoner that has:
    Completed all of the Story Content in-game
    Completed all of last year’s Summer of Pain objectives
    Completed Carina’s Challenges (Volumes 1 and 2),
    Plays in a higher tier competitive Alliance
    Purchased the Unit offer at the end of Act 7 Chapter 4

    or is it either?

    To achieve the Paragon progress title, you need to have completed Act 7 and have three 6* rank 4 champions.

    The announcement of the title was intended to come at a time when it was theoretically possible for a player that had completed all of the content and is getting the top tier rewards from top tier alliances to have theoretically achieved this title. That doesn't mean all such players will. That doesn't mean the title was designed or intended for just them. It just means this: at some point in the past, no one could have satisfied the requirements of that title. And then at some point, the first player could. Over time, the number of such players grew, and the number of possible ways a player could have achieved this grew. When this reached a point where a player theoretically could have achieved this title without spending a ton, it was at that point that the devs decided to release the title.

    They could have released the title last week, last month, even last year. Fewer and fewer players could have achieved the title, if any, as you go farther back. They could have also held it until next month, or next year, in which case more players would be able to achieve it. The title is the same regardless of when they release it. The title is meant for the same purpose regardless of when they release it. It is intended to include the same people regardless of when it is released: the players who have achieved its requirements. The possibility statements in the announcement are only there to explain why now, not who.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,254 ★★★★★
    edited April 2022
    DNA3000 said:

    Evolves2 said:

    Essentially, I think we as a community should have this discussion.

    We *are* having this discussion. And my position in this discussion is: we've had this discussion before. People keep saying it is different this time, and it is, because it is always different. But it isn't different in an important way.

    People keep focusing on the "well, it was *possible* to get Cavalier on day one, it was *possible* to get Thronebreaker on day one."

    For who?

    It *wasn't* possible for most people to get Cavalier on day one. It wasn't possible for most people to get Thronebreaker on day one. That's why people *complained* about Cavalier and Thronebreaker. It wasn't possible *for them*.

    We aren't really discussing what's fair. We aren't even discussing what's possible. We're discussing who should be on this side of the line, and who should be on that side. And almost everyone thinks they should be on the right side, or close enough that it doesn't matter.

    People don't want it to be possible. They want it to be possible for them and right now. it is fine if it is impossible for anyone else, because of course if it is possible for them, it isn't really impossible for everyone else. Those people just failed to do what they did.

    The most important way in which this is just like Thronebreaker and just like Cavalier is: in six months, maybe a year, no one will care. The majority will look back, if they were even here, and wonder what the fuss was about. It is the temporary nature of these "issues" that contextualize what's really happening. Some people are upset they can't get there immediately. And that's something the game is never going to promise anyone. It didn't have to be three R4s, it could have been five R4s. It could have been five R5s. It could have been a title literally impossible for anyone to reach today, whether they were F2P or whale, whether they had completed everything or not. It wouldn't make any difference, because whatever the requirements were, *eventually* we'd be back here, with some people there, some people not quite there, and some people far away and complaining they deserve to be there.

    For some people, Thronebreaker was possible on day one and Paragon won't be. For some people Cavalier was possible on day one and Thronebreaker wasn't. These are very tiny slivers of the player population, and where ever you draw the lines there will always be such people: you can only choose who there are, not if they are. And time eventually solves all their problems. You cannot solve this problem, because this is an inevitable situation. The best we can do is choose different people to suffer the problem under the guise of discussing fairness.
    I think the main point here is that most are saying the line should be drawn juuuuuust in the right place so they can be Paragon on day 1 or so they can do another bit of content and get it.
  • Sabinijo_1Sabinijo_1 Posts: 17
    edited April 2022
    Progression titles shouldn't have temporary content and a 350$ value offer as a requirement. Pretty disgusting move to include those. And very convenient that the 10k unit offer was edited in afterwards in the post.

    Should be 2 R4 maximum. If it's not changed before July 4th it's pretty easy to save my money this year on the offers because these are the kind of things that completely demotivate spending for players like myself.
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Posts: 2,965 ★★★★★
    You know what I want? A peek behind the curtain. Kabam has data and makes decisions based on data, theoretically.

    How many players would have this title right now if it went live? How many players would have the title if the requirement was two instead of three?

    I think that would be really instructive, and it would be interesting to see. I know we’re talking about players on the tail of the bell curve. I’m in a top-800 AQ group, got every SOP point (the 9-week event, not finale), got 100% on the Gauntlet and I’m nowhere close.
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Posts: 2,965 ★★★★★
    And another thing that I think deserves its own post…can we please reflect on how much time would be spent farming units, heals, and revives to complete that insane list as a f2p player? Carina vol2 just came out last month.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,660 Guardian

    Progression titles shouldn't have temporary content and a 350$ value offer as a requirement.

    I will bet you that it is possible to achieve Paragon without spending, without doing any temporary content, without accepting any special offers, and without doing any AQ or AW. None of those things are requirements.

    They might help you get the title sooner, but I will bet players who fail to do any or all of them will still be able to achieve the title, making none of them actual requirements.
  • Zuko_ILCZuko_ILC Posts: 1,504 ★★★★★
    Are catalyst inventory caps going to be increased at that level?
  • Zuko_ILCZuko_ILC Posts: 1,504 ★★★★★
    Gamer said:

    Jaded said:

    Idk why progression titles have to be tied to rank ups. Bad form to continue this trend imo.

    I’m totalt okay wit it
    Agreed it's fair. The title is progression based not skill based.
  • FathersunFathersun Posts: 6
    So…we wouldn’t even be getting new solo crystals? Why do I need/what am I going to do with all the 4* ags and sig stones?
  • FitnesscwFitnesscw Posts: 216 ★★
    I respect kabam for introducing this. But I feel like 3 r4 champs is too much. Regardless of level or wallet it's still hard to get even 1 r4. I completed act 7 and am no where near close to 1 r4
  • JChanceH9JChanceH9 Posts: 785 ★★★
    Spending in itself offers multiplicative benefits. The issue it seems is people disagreeing where the paywall multipliers should end.

    Rewards from alliance war, alliance quest, cash offers, completing new content faster, access to new champions sooner… all benefits.

    Should title progression be behind the paywall? I’m not saying yes or no. If there is a line where it would be? 🤷

    Personally I hope the line falls wherever is best for the longevity and health of the game.
  • Burrito2525Burrito2525 Posts: 507 ★★★
    Haven’t read the last 8 pages but I agree 1 r4 is too little but 3 is too much. 2 might be just right…But

    How about 2 r4s and like 30 r3s, thats well in endgame territory and very different from a new thronebreaker.

    What do you say @Kabam Miike ….fyi, I don’t currently fulfill the requirement just mentioned but think it’s a lofty goal that is more doable with less paywalls and gifting luck than 3 r4s
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,660 Guardian
    Fitnesscw said:

    I respect kabam for introducing this. But I feel like 3 r4 champs is too much. Regardless of level or wallet it's still hard to get even 1 r4. I completed act 7 and am no where near close to 1 r4

    Difficulty is relative. Some people have lots of R4s. Some have a couple, and some have one. Some are working on their first one. Paragon is the highest progression tier in the game. It is going to be difficult for most players to achieve, at least in the short term. That's deliberate. It sounds like you're completed but not explored Act 7, and it sounds like you haven't done a lot of the other advanced/end game content in the game yet. I understand you wanting the highest progressional tier to be within reach, but if it was within reach of players similar to you, it would be trivial for players above you to get. We have different progression tiers so the game offers a challenge to as many players as possible. But achieving the highest progression tier in the game might be too high of a goal for you at the moment. But as time marches on, it will get easier, and almost certainly faster than you might otherwise expect.
  • MSpawnMSpawn Posts: 102
    Will this title affect upcoming Spring Cleaning deals?
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,660 Guardian

    DNA3000 said:

    Progression titles shouldn't have temporary content and a 350$ value offer as a requirement.

    I will bet you that it is possible to achieve Paragon without spending, without doing any temporary content, without accepting any special offers, and without doing any AQ or AW. None of those things are requirements.

    They might help you get the title sooner, but I will bet players who fail to do any or all of them will still be able to achieve the title, making none of them actual requirements.
    Likely true, but as it stands if you did 100% of the content and find you still won't qualify for the title, there's nothing in-game you can do to go earn it prior to the release of title-gated content. For TB on the other hand, if you found yourself behind the line on announcement, you could explore Act 6 or complete an Abyss path and go get it.
    You could tell people to do that - we did tell people to do that. How many actually could do that?

    Even if the player could in theory do that, how much time would it have taken to explore Act 6? What would it have cost them to rush through Act 6 quickly? Most players cannot explore an Act in a weekend. That's weeks of time at least, and possibly hundreds or thousands of units - again, if they are trying to speed through it rather than play more carefully. That's not a hair I'm willing to split. We're talking about the difference between being impossible for 99.9% of the playerbase and 99.99% of the playerbase, not the difference between totally impossible and totally possible.
  • Eb0ny-O-M4wEb0ny-O-M4w Posts: 13,763 ★★★★★
    MSpawn said:

    Will this title affect upcoming Spring Cleaning deals?

    The title will come after, so no.
    But you can think that this announcement is their way to incentivize people to spend on that event. Which I guess both "helps" players to get close to meet the requirements, and at the same time further goes against what they stated initially
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