**UPDATE**
We are currently working to fix a known issue regarding Alliance Prestige. With the introduction of Relics, Summoner Prestige is now the average PI of your Top 5 Champions and the average PI of your Top 5 Relics (regardless of which Champion they are attached to) combined.

Today we pushed a fix that will allow for proper reward calculations in Alliance Quests. However, the display for Alliance Prestige will not be accurate and does not include Relic Prestige. This is a display issue only.
**KNOWN ISSUE**
Some items are displaying erroneous star ratings. This seems to be happening most on items where typically there are no star ratings. We have found the cause for the issue and it will be resolved, targeting mid-late next week.

Introducing the next Campaign Progression Level: Paragon!

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Comments

  • JadedJaded Posts: 5,344 ★★★★★

    Mackey said:

    Bottom line is no matter how they set the bar, someone is going to be offended. This isn't something that a great number of people are meant to have the day it comes out. It was the same for Thronebreaker.

    Clearly you are missing the point here... it shouldn't be available to everyone, I agree there BUT when they introduced thronebreaker title they had TWO pieces of content that gave the rewards to make 1x r3 6*, meaning people was able to obtain TB on day 1 with some hard work.

    That is not the same case as this new title.
    If it was set at 2 rank 4s people who had 100%ed act 7 but only have 1 rank 4 would complain about not having done gauntlet, SoP etc. People on the wrong side of it will always complain, it’s just human nature
    So how come KT1 and myself are complaining and we'll qualify for Paragon? Maybe people just actually have a difference of opinion and it has nothing to do with our personal accounts.
    Lol you are lumping yourself with someone with different reasons completely. You just dont wanna lose your aq spot, your interest is nothing more than that.
    Give him another 30min and I'm sure he'll remind everyone where his alliance places in AQ.

    Mackey said:

    Bottom line is no matter how they set the bar, someone is going to be offended. This isn't something that a great number of people are meant to have the day it comes out. It was the same for Thronebreaker.

    Clearly you are missing the point here... it shouldn't be available to everyone, I agree there BUT when they introduced thronebreaker title they had TWO pieces of content that gave the rewards to make 1x r3 6*, meaning people was able to obtain TB on day 1 with some hard work.

    That is not the same case as this new title.
    If it was set at 2 rank 4s people who had 100%ed act 7 but only have 1 rank 4 would complain about not having done gauntlet, SoP etc. People on the wrong side of it will always complain, it’s just human nature
    So how come KT1 and myself are complaining and we'll qualify for Paragon? Maybe people just actually have a difference of opinion and it has nothing to do with our personal accounts.
    Lol you are lumping yourself with someone with different reasons completely. You just dont wanna lose your aq spot, your interest is nothing more than that.
    Give him another 30min and I'm sure he'll remind everyone where his alliance places in AQ.
    Yes, we're top 20 lol. My complaint has nothing to do with my alliance spot. We're going to be top 20 regardless of the changes because we're a top alliance. That's how it works.

    To base it on content that isn't permanent doesn't make sense that why 2 r4's should be the limit. It's not rocket science and I don't care if a player is FTP or not.
    It's not based on temp content, it's based on what was available in that temp content to show that it's possible to have 3 r4s without spending on cash offers.
    I never said it wasn't possible. I have a two free to play guys now in my alliance that will have 3 r4's very shortly so the argument isn't that 3 r4's are impossible. I just don't feel it is reasonable for what they're trying to accomplish.

    Especially the immediate benefits players that won't have paragon will be receiving until then. If you personally don't care about waiting, good for you. That is not whom I'm speaking for at the moment. Hopefully that cleared up my perspective.
    What Kabam wants to accomplish is to rel8a title that's aimed at a specific group of people and will allow others to work towards that.

    What the community wants is for them to release a new title specific to their own progress because they feel left out.
    Personal feelings are not included in my problem with the requirements. I say 2 r4s is sufficient but I don’t have 2. It makes sense to have 2 since that’s what is in the game within reason. This has nothing to do with how one person feels left out, it has to do with reason/common sense/logic etc…
  • BigManOnCampusBigManOnCampus Posts: 359 ★★★

    Mackey said:

    Bottom line is no matter how they set the bar, someone is going to be offended. This isn't something that a great number of people are meant to have the day it comes out. It was the same for Thronebreaker.

    Clearly you are missing the point here... it shouldn't be available to everyone, I agree there BUT when they introduced thronebreaker title they had TWO pieces of content that gave the rewards to make 1x r3 6*, meaning people was able to obtain TB on day 1 with some hard work.

    That is not the same case as this new title.



    I've been running this train steady without a hitch for well over a couple years now, that still doesn't' change the fact that a 2 r4 requirement will be healthier progression in my opinion and at least give some players a buffer. Because 2 r4 champs material is available in game without a question, no need to spend or buy an offer.
    Is that really because you only have 2 ? 😏
    I have 2 t3 alphas and 2 t6 basics. I will have 3 r4's by tomorrow with spring cleaning. This isn't about me. I've actually done all the content in game outside of two carina's. I said that already lol. If you spend and complete content like me its not a big deal. lol

    I literally do not think 3 r4's is reason because someone like myself who has basically done everything and spends barely qualifies. So I think it is more reasonable to have 2 r4's because all of the material is there within permanent content and not having to buy offers.
    Kabam gives players one R4 for free in Act7 , so it really shouldn't be any crying..
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 2,238 ★★★★★

    Mackey said:

    Bottom line is no matter how they set the bar, someone is going to be offended. This isn't something that a great number of people are meant to have the day it comes out. It was the same for Thronebreaker.

    Clearly you are missing the point here... it shouldn't be available to everyone, I agree there BUT when they introduced thronebreaker title they had TWO pieces of content that gave the rewards to make 1x r3 6*, meaning people was able to obtain TB on day 1 with some hard work.

    That is not the same case as this new title.



    I've been running this train steady without a hitch for well over a couple years now, that still doesn't' change the fact that a 2 r4 requirement will be healthier progression in my opinion and at least give some players a buffer. Because 2 r4 champs material is available in game without a question, no need to spend or buy an offer.
    Is that really because you only have 2 ? 😏
    I have 2 t3 alphas and 2 t6 basics. I will have 3 r4's by tomorrow with spring cleaning. This isn't about me. I've actually done all the content in game outside of two carina's. I said that already lol. If you spend and complete content like me its not a big deal. lol

    I literally do not think 3 r4's is reason because someone like myself who has basically done everything and spends barely qualifies. So I think it is more reasonable to have 2 r4's because all of the material is there within permanent content and not having to buy offers.
    Kabam gives players one R4 for free in Act7 , so it really shouldn't be any crying..
    If you want the title I can understand the complaints. Especially because we know Thronebreaker offers will be nerfed by a good amount.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 6,692 ★★★★★
    edited April 21

    I am totally ambivalent to the new title, and i wont have it day1. I like working towards it.

    I think the major sticking point with most players on the cusp is that Eternity of Pain/ July4 offers may be locked behind the new title, with very few/ no way to bridge that gap before that timeframe.
    That said, it is what it is and eventually we wil get there.

    One fix could be to make the offers + prizes objectives-based (like Carina’s) that are triggered when a player hits Paragon. Offers trigger on completion of specific content already. That kind of thing would be incentivizing. Of course, you could always follow the BF/CM approach that was so popular when TB was introduced. ;)

    Dr. Zola
  • RicoShayRicoShay Posts: 211 ★★
    The issue here is the difference between 2 and 3 r4's. 2 is "too little" and 3 is "too much" but my main criticism towards this title is that you needed to complete content that isn't available anymore to get the title. So many players became TB through that event and after that many of those players have completed major milestones in content that contribute to r4 materials. But I'm no time traveller. I can't get the resources I need because I didn't do something a year ago. I can't go back and fully explore SOP. I can't go grind 10k units before act 7 so that when it came around I could buy the "exploration" package which is more or less a rank up package. I can't qualify for a top alliance for months because my prestige gate keeps me from doing that so I get bottlenecked for the resources. even still I'm sitting in a fairly competitive alliance and have little to no chance of getting another rank 4 any time soon.

    Another thing that boggles my brain is some people deny that it isn't heavily benefitting spending players and shafting FTP players. Yes, advantage should be paid out to those who contribute real money towards it but the advantage of the purchase is why people will buy what they do. If I want a 6* nexus and I have the will to spend my money I go buy it because I get a 6* nexus. The advantage is the nexus NOT a progression towards a title. If you're buying something you should only be buying what you get and not some add on BS that comes out later. Essentially you either shaft your players by making r4's too hard to earn and bottlenecking the title or you increase the chances of getting an r4 and shaft players who spent their hard earned money. The real solution here in my opinion is make EOP permanent. Make the prerequisites EOP completion and act 7 completion with 2r'4's for the title. That way if you 100% both act 7 and EOP you have access to the title and it is a display of skill. I know nothing will come about it but regardless of situation there will be disagreement. Going to reiterate it's pretty pathetic if you think fairness should be bought and not provided to players. I don't think everyone deserves the title from day 1 but I do think that if you put effort into this game and you use your precious time that you deserve some payout too. And that doesn't mean 100% of the entire game to get access
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 16,887 ★★★★★
    RicoShay said:

    .

    Another thing that boggles my brain is some people deny that it isn't heavily benefitting spending players and shafting FTP players.

    I haven't seen a single person deny that spenders benefit from their spending and no, F2P is not being shafted.

    F2P mindset tends to lean to hard on your concept of "being shafted" because you don't have what spenders have. F2P and spenders are not the same. If you want to be equal to spenders, you have to a lot more work. The game needs revenue so someone will always benefit if they're willing to spend.
  • GmonkeyGmonkey Posts: 2,333 ★★★★★
    DrDrill said:

    Evolves2 said:

    Evolves2 said:

    This 100%. The ones that are doing the most complaining are the ones that won't be Paragon day 1 so because of that, they think it's a garbage decision….

    FOMO is all it is…

    People have decided that the title is right and proper if they have already got 2 Rank 4s, or are close to getting them. They haven’t realised that the title is for the future of the game, not for today.
    To contribute to the discussion, do you both think it’s fair to base a progression title in a game on a promise of more content, without knowing what the rewards are or with what frequency they will be dropped?

    Do you both believe that it is fair to say that a valid route to get to this new progression title would have been to do five different steps, including spending 10,000-12,000 units, without any knowledge of it being linked to a progression title?

    What do you define as a campaign progression title? Because I don’t believe the majority of the player base’s idea lines up with what the team has announced.

    And lastly, do you both think that new content, such as EOP, should have exclusive objectives and rewards for these new title holders within a month or two after release, especially when considering there’s no feasible method (permanent content) to get you to that benchmark?
    Sorry but it's possible to have 3 R4's at this point without having spent real money. Just because it's not "feasible" in your head, doesn't mean it can't happen.

    And yes, its fair to base a title on future content. This title isn't meant for everyone to have on release, its meant to have something to work towards. If you had 3 R4's right now, you wouldn't be of this opinion. You can't base a new title on story content alone because it doesn't hold enough weight in terms of difficulty. It's leagues easier than Act 6 even after the nerf plus they increased paradox charges from 8 to 12 which decreases the difficulty even more.
    I agree with you that it is possible without having spent real money, that was never in question - the developers even laid out how it was possible, which I’m taking at face value. I’m disagreeing that a day 1 Campaign progression title is being based off of deals (and seemingly everything from alliances to temporary content). It’s not feasible to attain now, because there’s no permanent content or deals available now.

    If you believe that it’s fair to base a title on future content, that’s alright. People disagree, and I think from your previous posts I see your point. I’m always okay with something I have to work towards; I’m of the opinion there just needs to be something to work towards when announcing it. When Thronebreaker came out, I didn’t qualify day 1 or even month 1. I worked hard to get there by taking on content that was available just to rank 3 a 6* Wasp. And I don’t regret it.

    I haven’t been on the forums much for you to know me, but I still would be part of this opinion with even 3 r4 champs. It’s not because it affects me personally, it’s because it’s a complete change in the trend and a different set of requirements. I have no clue what will come after this, but I don’t like this trend and I don’t want it now or in the future.

    I agree you cannot base a progression title on story content, but basing it on the metrics the game team has used, specifically temporary content and deals, I disagree with. I agree with the team it should be roster dependent, but it should be doable with the content in the game as it currently stands. That is why many say 2 rank 4’s are fair, because it means it is attainable via permanent content such as both Carina’s + Act 7. If there were variants or other permanent content that offered drops of r4 materials, I would say that 3 r4’s are fair.
    The people saying 2 are the ones who are only doing the content they wanted to get to 2 r4s. They aren't doing everything in game that could net them 3 r4s.

    Some of those with 2, couldn't do SoP when it came out or Gauntlet because they weren't ready or weren't the right level. That's not Kabams fault as they specifically said this title is aimed at those who have done everything the encompass in their calculations. They know this severely limits the pool of Paragons and that's fine. We all can still work to this title.

    This isnt any different than the people that claim there's a gold shortage in game but won't do arena to sustain their gold reserves.

    There are ways to get R4 mats but it boils down to that most don't want to do some of those things like top 45 AQ and p1/masters AW.

    People want Kabam to fit their own personal progression and that varies for everyone.

    Like I said before, new titles going forward should be ones no one can get day one. Put to rest all this mess for the future.
    stop spreading lies,
    doing everything in game doesn't give you 3 r4
    I did SoP/Guntlet/every single content that gives r4 materials/act7/abyss/carina.
    and I'm half way throw the 3rd one, so the ONLY possible way to get the title day 1 is buying the 1st bundle of act 7 completion, which was optional, and no hints of new title the REQUIRE the bundle, so people could act accordingly (wait until they got the unit before completing the act).

    so before saying same thing over and over again replying to every single one with valid argument, learn how to do math and double check before saying BS.

    P.S. I'll not reply, just to stat facts rather than stat crab just to be kabam white knight.
    I don't care that much to waste tons of hours waiting to respond to every single counter argument to my opinion, since either ways, I don't give that crab about 10% more chance for l3 potion and 0.05% for t6 basic fragment from daily crystals.
    You had to buy all 10000 unit deals from July 4, cyber and 7.4 completion plus the side event gives you enough.
  • GmonkeyGmonkey Posts: 2,333 ★★★★★
    DrDrill said:

    for the people who comparing this to TB title introduction,
    back then, no matter where you are in the game, if you explored act 6, you will get your first r3 no matter what (main complain was about RNG factor in choosing first r3).
    in here, even if you finished everything LITERALLY, you still won't be able to acquire the title.
    if you want to make the argument similar, the act 7 offer should be permanent, not 24h offer.
    this way, doing everything will give you the title, otherwise, it won't.

    also, exploring act 6 probably costed ~4k units if you don't have best counter.
    this title, it will cost you at least 40k units Act 7 offer = 10k / 7 abyss path = 24k / various challenges= 5k /
    gifting + AQ+AW+July4 ...etc
    so it better be worth it (probably not)

    Before the nerf no way you could explore act 6 for 4K units. I would have put it up with abyss for spend.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,079 ★★★★★
    Gmonkey said:

    DrDrill said:

    for the people who comparing this to TB title introduction,
    back then, no matter where you are in the game, if you explored act 6, you will get your first r3 no matter what (main complain was about RNG factor in choosing first r3).
    in here, even if you finished everything LITERALLY, you still won't be able to acquire the title.
    if you want to make the argument similar, the act 7 offer should be permanent, not 24h offer.
    this way, doing everything will give you the title, otherwise, it won't.

    also, exploring act 6 probably costed ~4k units if you don't have best counter.
    this title, it will cost you at least 40k units Act 7 offer = 10k / 7 abyss path = 24k / various challenges= 5k /
    gifting + AQ+AW+July4 ...etc
    so it better be worth it (probably not)

    Before the nerf no way you could explore act 6 for 4K units. I would have put it up with abyss for spend.
    Original Act 6 was brutal. Especially when considering most rosters at the time. I'm still pissed those of us that explored it before any changes never got a separate title for that.
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Posts: 2,137 ★★★★★
    Gmonkey said:

    DrDrill said:

    for the people who comparing this to TB title introduction,
    back then, no matter where you are in the game, if you explored act 6, you will get your first r3 no matter what (main complain was about RNG factor in choosing first r3).
    in here, even if you finished everything LITERALLY, you still won't be able to acquire the title.
    if you want to make the argument similar, the act 7 offer should be permanent, not 24h offer.
    this way, doing everything will give you the title, otherwise, it won't.

    also, exploring act 6 probably costed ~4k units if you don't have best counter.
    this title, it will cost you at least 40k units Act 7 offer = 10k / 7 abyss path = 24k / various challenges= 5k /
    gifting + AQ+AW+July4 ...etc
    so it better be worth it (probably not)

    Before the nerf no way you could explore act 6 for 4K units. I would have put it up with abyss for spend.
    Loads of people did abyss for way less than 4k. It was a much easier path to TB than exploring act 6.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 31,307 ★★★★★

    Still no word about this issue.

    Tomorrow drops the money cleaning event deals, and some people will buy another rank 4 champion just for the sake of this title.

    Last thing you need now is to change the requirements after selling the product. So if we don't get any news about this till tomorrow, I can assume that nothing will change and that this issue will be going forward

    I have my doubts it will change. It didn't change last time, and the feedback was on par.
  • Qwerty12345Qwerty12345 Posts: 519 ★★★
    maybe if next time Kabam makes it 10 R4s, so noone has it on day one... people will realize the goal is to set a bar, and judging where you are compared to that bar on day 1 isn't the poiint, but rather its a goal along the journy.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 31,307 ★★★★★

    Still no word about this issue.

    Tomorrow drops the money cleaning event deals, and some people will buy another rank 4 champion just for the sake of this title.

    Last thing you need now is to change the requirements after selling the product. So if we don't get any news about this till tomorrow, I can assume that nothing will change and that this issue will be going forward

    I have my doubts it will change. It didn't change last time, and the feedback was on par.
    This is a whole other issue, not comparable to the situation with the TB title.
    Literally the same. A new benchmark is introduced, people protest the requirements.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 31,307 ★★★★★

    Still no word about this issue.

    Tomorrow drops the money cleaning event deals, and some people will buy another rank 4 champion just for the sake of this title.

    Last thing you need now is to change the requirements after selling the product. So if we don't get any news about this till tomorrow, I can assume that nothing will change and that this issue will be going forward

    I have my doubts it will change. It didn't change last time, and the feedback was on par.
    This is a whole other issue, not comparable to the situation with the TB title.
    Literally the same. A new benchmark is introduced, people protest the requirements.
    The requirements that Kabam itself said aren't enough to obtain the title. Introducing the title like this would be against their own words
    I'm sorry, where did they say anything besides the requirement is what it is? If they never intended it to be 3 R4s and Act 7, they wouldn't have announced it. Bottom line is, some people will have it when it comes out, and some will have to wait. That's no different than anything else. It's not a travesty. It's how the game works when something is introduced.
  • Eb0ny-O-M4wEb0ny-O-M4w Posts: 12,784 ★★★★★

    Still no word about this issue.

    Tomorrow drops the money cleaning event deals, and some people will buy another rank 4 champion just for the sake of this title.

    Last thing you need now is to change the requirements after selling the product. So if we don't get any news about this till tomorrow, I can assume that nothing will change and that this issue will be going forward

    I have my doubts it will change. It didn't change last time, and the feedback was on par.
    This is a whole other issue, not comparable to the situation with the TB title.
    Literally the same. A new benchmark is introduced, people protest the requirements.
    The requirements that Kabam itself said aren't enough to obtain the title. Introducing the title like this would be against their own words
    I'm sorry, where did they say anything besides the requirement is what it is? If they never intended it to be 3 R4s and Act 7, they wouldn't have announced it. Bottom line is, some people will have it when it comes out, and some will have to wait. That's no different than anything else. It's not a travesty. It's how the game works when something is introduced.
    They very specifically said "if you did this, this and that, you will get enough. So that's why we are releasing the title". Very first post, the announcement itself. And no, it isn't enough, so therefore the title shouldn't be released yet
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 31,307 ★★★★★

    Still no word about this issue.

    Tomorrow drops the money cleaning event deals, and some people will buy another rank 4 champion just for the sake of this title.

    Last thing you need now is to change the requirements after selling the product. So if we don't get any news about this till tomorrow, I can assume that nothing will change and that this issue will be going forward

    I have my doubts it will change. It didn't change last time, and the feedback was on par.
    This is a whole other issue, not comparable to the situation with the TB title.
    Literally the same. A new benchmark is introduced, people protest the requirements.
    The requirements that Kabam itself said aren't enough to obtain the title. Introducing the title like this would be against their own words
    I'm sorry, where did they say anything besides the requirement is what it is? If they never intended it to be 3 R4s and Act 7, they wouldn't have announced it. Bottom line is, some people will have it when it comes out, and some will have to wait. That's no different than anything else. It's not a travesty. It's how the game works when something is introduced.
    They very specifically said "if you did this, this and that, you will get enough. So that's why we are releasing the title". Very first post, the announcement itself. And no, it isn't enough, so therefore the title shouldn't be released yet
    At the moment it's released? No. Hence the part about not everyone getting it right away. Keep doing those things and you will. Is everything a mission against spending?
  • SandeepSSandeepS Posts: 848 ★★★
    Bit late to the party. I'm a thronebreaker with 0 6r4. I understand the title and what it's trying to achieve. My expectation would have been similar to thronebreaker where if you complete all the story content then you'll have the title. Extra exclusivity I also understand but would suggest making the requirement 2 x 6r4. Am motivated to achieve it, may take me a while, but putting the message after the 10k offer wasnt good. If I knew this was coming I would have postponed my completion of 7.4. Having r4 material coming soon sounds promising but in reality it's going to be judged on how much e.g. 1 t3a or 300 t3a fragments.
  • PseudouberPseudouber Posts: 693 ★★★
    Kabam, you want to make some real money. Put out a Thronebreaker daily and include T6B and T3A shards.
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