AQ map 6 Changes - Thoughts?

Kiptonade · May 2022

GroundedWisdom said:

pseudosane said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Granted some changes don't go over well, but AQ is always something that has changed from time to time. It's something we do 5 days a week, consistently. At least those Alliances that run it. For anyone asking why it was changed, change is the only thing preventing monotony.
while it is nice to give feedback, GW, do you play this map? I'm curious.
I play AQ. It has never stayed the same indefinitely. They've made changed periodically. It's not going to be the same Map and Nodes forever.

Do you play Map 6?

DNA3000 · May 2022

GroundedWisdom said:

pseudosane said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Granted some changes don't go over well, but AQ is always something that has changed from time to time. It's something we do 5 days a week, consistently. At least those Alliances that run it. For anyone asking why it was changed, change is the only thing preventing monotony.
while it is nice to give feedback, GW, do you play this map? I'm curious.
I play AQ. It has never stayed the same indefinitely. They've made changed periodically. It's not going to be the same Map and Nodes forever.

They have also, by their own admissions, made critical errors in the past regarding difficulty. For example, when they did the major revamp that added sentinel minions to AQ maps, they believed the intrinsic difficulty of those changes was trivial, but I not only challenged that idea qualitatively, I was also able to demonstrate quantitatively that mid-tier alliances that could hold the same points per week were placing hundreds of places higher in AQ leaderboards, implying a high number of alliances were experiencing dramatic difficulty increases that did not go away after alliances became familiar with the maps (as this effect persisted for weeks).

Change is inevitable, and there’s no sense in complaining about change itself. But the reason for the changes wasn’t just to change them for change’s sake. It was to make them more accessible, as they are no longer top tier maps but really mid tier maps with map 7/8 now taking the top tier spots. And some of the changes to map 5 and map 6 do help certain alliances complete those maps more easily - particularly less coordinated or less full alliances. But the per path difficulty of map 5 seems significantly higher for a map whose overall difficulty should have been neutral, and the per path difficulty of map 6 is dramatically higher than it seems the intended target should have been. The goal was to make the maps more accessible, not to update them to make them more difficult. The maps are objectively much harder, and clearly based on feedback subjectively much harder as well. In this specific case, they shouldn’t be.

Kiptonade · May 2022

DNA3000 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

pseudosane said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Granted some changes don't go over well, but AQ is always something that has changed from time to time. It's something we do 5 days a week, consistently. At least those Alliances that run it. For anyone asking why it was changed, change is the only thing preventing monotony.
while it is nice to give feedback, GW, do you play this map? I'm curious.
I play AQ. It has never stayed the same indefinitely. They've made changed periodically. It's not going to be the same Map and Nodes forever.
They have also, by their own admissions, made critical errors in the past regarding difficulty. For example, when they did the major revamp that added sentinel minions to AQ maps, they believed the intrinsic difficulty of those changes was trivial, but I not only challenged that idea qualitatively, I was also able to demonstrate quantitatively that mid-tier alliances that could hold the same points per week were placing hundreds of places higher in AQ leaderboards, implying a high number of alliances were experiencing dramatic difficulty increases that did not go away after alliances became familiar with the maps (as this effect persisted for weeks).

Change is inevitable, and there’s no sense in complaining about change itself. But the reason for the changes wasn’t just to change them for change’s sake. It was to make them more accessible, as they are no longer top tier maps but really mid tier maps with map 7/8 now taking the top tier spots. And some of the changes to map 5 and map 6 do help certain alliances complete those maps more easily - particularly less coordinated or less full alliances. But the per path difficulty of map 5 seems significantly higher for a map whose overall difficulty should have been neutral, and the per path difficulty of map 6 is dramatically higher than it seems the intended target should have been. The goal was to make the maps more accessible, not to update them to make them more difficult. The maps are objectively much harder, and clearly based on feedback subjectively much harder as well. In this specific case, they shouldn’t be.

Agreed this reminds me of when Sentinels replaced the symbiods in AQ - and we didn’t have buffed Magneto back then so it was a nightmare and fights took forever.

I also don’t think the dramatic change in difficulty was an intentional change by Kabam (despite the fact that compensation packets are likely ending soon and alliances would likely either need to spend units to complete or drop down to map 5 and accept slower account progression)

But it is extremely frustrating how a post that is begging for some kind of response goes yet another day without any acknowledgement. Unfortunately it would seem like the Map 6 player base just isn’t big enough for Kabam to respond to. Instead meme posts and buff praise posts take priority.

TyEdge · May 2022

Kiptonade said:

GroundedWisdom said:

pseudosane said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Granted some changes don't go over well, but AQ is always something that has changed from time to time. It's something we do 5 days a week, consistently. At least those Alliances that run it. For anyone asking why it was changed, change is the only thing preventing monotony.
while it is nice to give feedback, GW, do you play this map? I'm curious.
I play AQ. It has never stayed the same indefinitely. They've made changed periodically. It's not going to be the same Map and Nodes forever.
Do you play Map 6?

Obviously not. A troll wouldn’t volunteer information unhelpful to his trolling. Instead, he dances around it and you’re left with a tacit admission that he doesn’t.

TyEdge · May 2022

I feel like an outsized proportion of the complaints are directed at the skill&tech/poison/power snack in phase 2. In fact, I think I’ve seen more people complain about that than all the other paths combined.

Remove literally any one of those 3 and you fix it. Remove power snack and you won’t have to play ridiculously slow with tech champs baiting specials. Remove poison and you don’t have to worry about shrugging/immunity. Remove the class restrictions and plenty of science/cosmic/mutant champs and Claire become relevant.

Darkn3ss · May 2022

I dont think the nodes are two hard or the champs, but please take away the class requirements for different paths. We dont want to have to assign / call paths for map6.

TyEdge · May 2022

Darkn3ss said:
I dont think the nodes are two hard or the champs, but please take away the class requirements for different paths. We dont want to have to assign / call paths for map6.

One of the reasons the champion selection sucks is that many champs are more easily handled baiting special 1s. You get one combo before you’re baiting another sp1.

TyEdge · May 2022

Day 9 of this being open. Not even an acknowledgement. Truly bizarre.

I understand why internal data doesn’t get shared, and I’m not asking that I be shared, but I’d be fascinated to see the item use breakdown on that path versus others.

Badass84 · May 2022

TyEdge said:
Day 9 of this being open. Not even an acknowledgement. Truly bizarre.

I understand why internal data doesn’t get shared, and I’m not asking that I be shared, but I’d be fascinated to see the item use breakdown on that path versus others.

I don't think there will be any answer. They'll just wait till we will give up or accept this ****...

TyEdge · May 2022

Badass84 said:

TyEdge said:
Day 9 of this being open. Not even an acknowledgement. Truly bizarre.

I understand why internal data doesn’t get shared, and I’m not asking that I be shared, but I’d be fascinated to see the item use breakdown on that path versus others.
I don't think there will be any answer. They'll just wait till we will give up or accept this ****...

I think the sentinels were a great comp. Remember when they would fire off sp2 and sp1 back to back?

And remember that time last summer where AQ was suddenly scaling incredibly sharply?

They’ve addressed these types of things before.

Badass84 · May 2022

TyEdge said:

Badass84 said:

TyEdge said:
Day 9 of this being open. Not even an acknowledgement. Truly bizarre.

I understand why internal data doesn’t get shared, and I’m not asking that I be shared, but I’d be fascinated to see the item use breakdown on that path versus others.
I don't think there will be any answer. They'll just wait till we will give up or accept this ****...
I think the sentinels were a great comp. Remember when they would fire off sp2 and sp1 back to back?

And remember that time last summer where AQ was suddenly scaling incredibly sharply?

They’ve addressed these types of things before.

Yep. I remember. Started playing 4 weeks after release. Still remember all AQ-Bosses and AQ has never been worse for mid-tier-alliances ..

Little_Crocodili29 · May 2022

There was also that time when we couldn't punish the Sentinnels Sp1's. Since their introduction to the game we could, then one day we couldn't anymore.

It eventually got fixed after much persistance on our part. But well... back then there was no map 7 or 8.

Now it feels like we might as well be complaining about map 1 the lack of damns being given, except by ourselves who are affected by it.

Kiptonade · May 2022

Badass84 said:

TyEdge said:
Day 9 of this being open. Not even an acknowledgement. Truly bizarre.

I understand why internal data doesn’t get shared, and I’m not asking that I be shared, but I’d be fascinated to see the item use breakdown on that path versus others.
I don't think there will be any answer. They'll just wait till we will give up or accept this ****...

I suspect they will address it once we have used up all the compensation packages and used up a few thousand units first. After they’ve made some money out of it essentially.

Carmel1 · May 2022

Kiptonade said:

Badass84 said:

TyEdge said:
Day 9 of this being open. Not even an acknowledgement. Truly bizarre.

I understand why internal data doesn’t get shared, and I’m not asking that I be shared, but I’d be fascinated to see the item use breakdown on that path versus others.
I don't think there will be any answer. They'll just wait till we will give up or accept this ****...
I suspect they will address it once we have used up all the compensation packages and used up a few thousand units first. After they’ve made some money out of it essentially.

Already did. Last AQ burned all my items on path1 section2. Every fight ended with sp3 to the face (turn the tide modifier)
I’m giving up. Leaving alliance and AQ after this AW season.

Burrito2525 · May 2022

Soooo @kabam any of the mods, can we get an acknowledgment this thread exists? @Kabam Miike since seems only he’s answering?

Has anyone noticed this long thread?

Carmel1 · May 2022

Burrito2525 said:
Soooo @kabam any of the mods, can we get an acknowledgment this thread exists? @Kabam Miike since seems only he’s answering?

Has anyone noticed this long thread?

I’m sure they’ve noticed the long thread. They are trying to address it by deleting comments.
Not that long anymore…

GroundedWisdom · May 2022

DNA3000 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

pseudosane said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Granted some changes don't go over well, but AQ is always something that has changed from time to time. It's something we do 5 days a week, consistently. At least those Alliances that run it. For anyone asking why it was changed, change is the only thing preventing monotony.
while it is nice to give feedback, GW, do you play this map? I'm curious.
I play AQ. It has never stayed the same indefinitely. They've made changed periodically. It's not going to be the same Map and Nodes forever.
They have also, by their own admissions, made critical errors in the past regarding difficulty. For example, when they did the major revamp that added sentinel minions to AQ maps, they believed the intrinsic difficulty of those changes was trivial, but I not only challenged that idea qualitatively, I was also able to demonstrate quantitatively that mid-tier alliances that could hold the same points per week were placing hundreds of places higher in AQ leaderboards, implying a high number of alliances were experiencing dramatic difficulty increases that did not go away after alliances became familiar with the maps (as this effect persisted for weeks).

Change is inevitable, and there’s no sense in complaining about change itself. But the reason for the changes wasn’t just to change them for change’s sake. It was to make them more accessible, as they are no longer top tier maps but really mid tier maps with map 7/8 now taking the top tier spots. And some of the changes to map 5 and map 6 do help certain alliances complete those maps more easily - particularly less coordinated or less full alliances. But the per path difficulty of map 5 seems significantly higher for a map whose overall difficulty should have been neutral, and the per path difficulty of map 6 is dramatically higher than it seems the intended target should have been. The goal was to make the maps more accessible, not to update them to make them more difficult. The maps are objectively much harder, and clearly based on feedback subjectively much harder as well. In this specific case, they shouldn’t be.

Well yes, I agree. Which is why I prefaced what I said by indicating some changes don't go over well. I was speaking to the idea of why they change it at all. Some people expect it to stay the same because that's what they're used to. That's not realistic. I'm not saying these changes are a hit or a miss. I can see the feedback.

Carmel1 · May 2022

GroundedWisdom said:

DNA3000 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

pseudosane said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Granted some changes don't go over well, but AQ is always something that has changed from time to time. It's something we do 5 days a week, consistently. At least those Alliances that run it. For anyone asking why it was changed, change is the only thing preventing monotony.
while it is nice to give feedback, GW, do you play this map? I'm curious.
I play AQ. It has never stayed the same indefinitely. They've made changed periodically. It's not going to be the same Map and Nodes forever.
They have also, by their own admissions, made critical errors in the past regarding difficulty. For example, when they did the major revamp that added sentinel minions to AQ maps, they believed the intrinsic difficulty of those changes was trivial, but I not only challenged that idea qualitatively, I was also able to demonstrate quantitatively that mid-tier alliances that could hold the same points per week were placing hundreds of places higher in AQ leaderboards, implying a high number of alliances were experiencing dramatic difficulty increases that did not go away after alliances became familiar with the maps (as this effect persisted for weeks).

Change is inevitable, and there’s no sense in complaining about change itself. But the reason for the changes wasn’t just to change them for change’s sake. It was to make them more accessible, as they are no longer top tier maps but really mid tier maps with map 7/8 now taking the top tier spots. And some of the changes to map 5 and map 6 do help certain alliances complete those maps more easily - particularly less coordinated or less full alliances. But the per path difficulty of map 5 seems significantly higher for a map whose overall difficulty should have been neutral, and the per path difficulty of map 6 is dramatically higher than it seems the intended target should have been. The goal was to make the maps more accessible, not to update them to make them more difficult. The maps are objectively much harder, and clearly based on feedback subjectively much harder as well. In this specific case, they shouldn’t be.
Well yes, I agree. Which is why I prefaced what I said by indicating some changes don't go over well. I was speaking to the idea of why they change it at all. Some people expect it to stay the same because that's what they're used to. That's not realistic. I'm not saying these changes are a hit or a miss. I can see the feedback.

They can refresh the map, they can also make it a bit harder or easier, but they should listen to the players that actually run it if the changes were too extreme

Little_Crocodili29 · May 2022

If there was anyone who didn't want any changes to AQ that must be a very tiny percentage. There's always been feedback from the community and ideas on how AQ should / could be improved. Don't need to go very far for proof where the path reductions decision has been extremely welcomed and applauded.

Stupid change is the issue.

If we're given stupid change then yes, give us back the old thing that worked better until you can give us an actual improvement we will be happy with.

TyEdge · May 2022

Little_Crocodili29 said:
If there was anyone who didn't want any changes to AQ that must be a very tiny percentage. There's always been feedback from the community and ideas on how AQ should / could be improved. Don't need to go very far for proof where the path reductions decision has been extremely welcomed and applauded.

Stupid change is the issue.

If we're given stupid change then yes, give us back the old thing that worked better until you can give us an actual improvement we will be happy with.

The problem is this mindset that if something is given, something else must be taken away.

They removed 9 fights from the map, not even one per person. The PIs are outlandishly high - I’m consistently fighting above 25,000 on day 3.

Watch how easy this is:
Phase 1: combine paths B and C. Lengthen D/E one node and fight each
Phase 2: remove path H
Phase 3: remove path H, shorten I and J by one node each

Then refresh the champs. No one asked for this overhaul, just a realistic way to earn map 6 crystals without a full 30. These fights are incredibly slow even avoiding the 50% attack nerf. The PIs and HP pools are out of whack with previous map 6 too.

Burrito2525 · May 2022

I honestly don’t mind the nodes or pi, just remove the class restrictions and I think 99% will be happy

Carmel1 · May 2022

I care more about the power sucks node in section2 path1. Not many options even without the class restriction that immune to nullify and poison immune. (Power control alone is not enough for this path especially with some of the modifiers)

World Eater · May 2022

Somewhat off topic but as of the current update ; fight timers are back to 3 minutes. I was almost certain they were at 3:30 last month.

ShaggyM · May 2022

The overall consensus is that it's just not fun. This is a game that's supposed to be fun to play. That should be the bottom line. Why play a game if it's not fun?

TyEdge · May 2022

Badass84 said:

TyEdge said:
Day 9 of this being open. Not even an acknowledgement. Truly bizarre.

I understand why internal data doesn’t get shared, and I’m not asking that I be shared, but I’d be fascinated to see the item use breakdown on that path versus others.
I don't think there will be any answer. They'll just wait till we will give up or accept this ****...

Accepting this, for me, means going to run map 4 with my alts in a 554 group. I score 225mil for doing practically nothing, and I get 4150 glory. Or, I hate playing map 6 for 440mil and I only get 4600 glory. Fail.

QuikPik · May 2022

@TyEdge I agree, the amount of glory you get for the effort does not scale correctly.

Cangaceiro · May 2022

ItsDamien said:

Carmel1 said:

ItsDamien said:
My alliance has had no problem with Map 6. Hell by the time I wake up the map is cleared.
maybe the reason you had no problem is because you slept through one of the sections.
And yet my alliance are clearing it while I’m asleep. They can finish it with 9 people instead of the 10 is needed before. Strange don’t you think.

What’s your in game name so we can make sure you don’t join our alliances to be a slacker. Stop leeching and carry your own weight.

LordSmasher · May 2022

The linked nodes are annoying me too. Its harder to push thru the minis with the nodes up as they are more punishing.

Why can't the links be at the beginning of the paths instead of the end? Hasn't AW taught KABAM that not forcing players to wait for other players is a good thing.

freezer · May 2022

At first we thought it would be great and save us some time throughout the day. We have ended up taking a similar amount of time and our lower ranked players have had to burn more resources putting pressure on them.

Honestly, it is irritating with the class restrictions and not really an enjoyable change. 3 of us who've been together for years have had enough and are quitting after this AQ series.

GoldenDad · May 2022

I agree. All my alliance members are finding it more resource intensive, with a number running out of potions. The class paths are frustrating and make progression more difficult, especially with the increased PI and difficulty of the defenders.

We will be dropping some Map 6 runs back to Map 5 next lot of AQ’s. My expectation is that you do AQ to gain resources, rather than use them all up.

AQ map 6 Changes - Thoughts?

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