iHulk is a badly designed champion and should be 'rebalanced' at some point

AmaadAkiraAmaadAkira Member Posts: 390 ★★★
edited October 2022 in Suggestions and Requests
Firstly, yes there are many champs who should be 'rebalanced' before him (whatever that means nowadays as it seems to be changing every 2 months) but look at this from a neutral POV.

The novelty of his gameplay is so underutilized, it's frustrating. Doing damage to yourself while dealing damage is a cool idea, but the trade-off for high damage (which isn't even that high for how long it lasts) should EITHER BE dying as you're almost always at 1% hp OR losing the damage if you're not aggressive enough. Why is it both? 3 points to break it down.

1. His mechanics (aside from the suppression and stun at sp2) do NOT facilitate his aggressive gameplay style. At the VERY least he deserves an infuriate. On top of that, a medium into a blocking opponent should also refresh rage stacks. Currently, his suppression can't even counter most mystics that have passive power gain and he's a science champ.

2. His mechanics also do not facilitate his 'immortality' gameplay. He can easily be heal blocked, his immortality can be shut off via assassins mastery/ability accuracy (rendering him quite risky as an attacker in AW mind you), and he has a 50 SECOND immortality CD. Again, at the VERY LEAST, don't allow his immortality to be bypassed by ability accuracy.

3. Currently, iHulk can be utterly countered by: Healblock, stun/debuff immunity, limber, defensive AI, power gain, physical resistance, unstoppable, unblockable, autoblock, evade, miss, disorient, all DOT except poison, etc. And these are just nodes, there are champs he simply does not have the kit to counter himself. And no, not counter as in "ooh maybe not too good in these cases", I mean borderline useless. As in you are required NOT TO play him the way he's supposed to be played (which is the frustrating part) and it is near impossible to ever reach half the maximum damage you could potentially reach for even a second most the time.

And even THAT would be all OK if the matches he WAS good for, he was insanely good. But even those matches are RNG-dependent if you want any good damage. An AI holds block each time you reach 2 rage stacks in his perfect matchup? Unless you hit immortality early, the most you're gonna build to is about 10 rage stacks if you manage to pull off the sp2 cycle (2 mediums into SP2, heavy, and 2 more mediums). At 10 rage stacks, you're hitting for less than champions that do not require you to lose most your health to pull off that damage.

A good example of all the above is CGR. CGR is borderline trash if the opponent is constantly nullifying your buffs/is armor break immune, but at least in the matches he's good for, his damage is amazing and most importantly, CONSISTENT. iHulk should have a similar gameplay style.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
Post edited by Kabam Porthos on
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Comments

  • AmaadAkiraAmaadAkira Member Posts: 390 ★★★

    Read the title immediately thinking “How can anyone argue this?” But it’s very well done, props to you. I get your point, and I think his utility could be expanded a bit. But he is REALLY good for the matchups where he excels.

    He’s the Mike Williams of MCoC. One of the best in a good matchup, but downright useless in the bad ones

    The problem isn't even that he's useless in bad match ups (which there are way too many of). He is downright actively harmful because of the fact that he slowly kills himself. Even champs like groot at least stay alive while doing their bad damage.
  • iDestroyerZiDestroyerZ Member Posts: 729 ★★★★
    I think the best way to improve his kit is to add extra 2 seconds to his rage stacks, it's so short but so short that if the AI holds block for literally 1 sec, u most likely will lose your current rage stacks....it's not just about the passive ai cause we can't expect that the AI will never hit a block, his damage will good rage stacks is actually amazing in my opinion but seriously a champion that just self harms in order to do damage should never be that hard to build that damage, just add an extra 2 seconds to his rage stack and i think the problem will be solved by like 60% or more
    @Kabam Miike do u have a take on this?
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★
    I agree with everything except for the parts about him killing himself, you're converting your health into gamma persistent charges which you get back and then you have a cooldown for your damage unless you want to risk it at low health. He's really not a risky champion to play if you play him right. You go from 100% to 0%, you have 100% health in persistent charges, and then you get almost 100% health back from the regen (it's about 95% i believe). He's also incredibly sustainable if you're on 0% gamma, you can get back up to 100% with a good stun chain and building gamma at 0% health, a definite item saver.

    A point on Assassins, that can only stop his immortality if you get hit by the opponent. Since it's DAAR, it can't occur while you are hitting the opponent and triggering immortality. Not that he's a great war champ due to inconsistency with AI, but just wanted to correct that.

    Overall, I tend to agree though, there's a reason I don't use my R3 anywhere except EoP where you can get infinite retries for perfect AI
  • AMS94AMS94 Member Posts: 1,776 ★★★★★
    I don't need to read all of that
    Just the title is enough for me to agree with it
    I know some people like him but it's still a badly designed kit
  • Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Member Posts: 7,470 ★★★★★
    I love the fact that he’s different and challenging to play. I pair him with Herc and BP. Great team.

    Won’t complain if they improve him but if you make his rage too easy to maintain he might be too good.
  • TheBair123TheBair123 Member Posts: 5,344 ★★★★★
    Knowing that one of his problems is defensive AI, I believe just a synergy where he can place infuriate will do a lot for him. I mean look at what it did for BPOG. Other champs like BWDO could benefit a lot from an infuriate synergy, as playing aggressively is a big part of their kit
  • OGAvengerOGAvenger Member Posts: 1,157 ★★★★★
    🤦🏼‍♂️ my r4 is fine as is. Please don’t touch him Kabam. I know how to play him effectively
  • Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Member Posts: 7,470 ★★★★★
    OGAvenger said:

    🤦🏼‍♂️ my r4 is fine as is. Please don’t touch him Kabam. I know how to play him effectively

    Nice rank up. Am considering it if I get a science 3-4 from 8.1 exploration.
  • KerneasKerneas Member Posts: 3,828 ★★★★★
    Point 2 also goes for Hercules tho. With rest I agree
  • ChatterofforumsChatterofforums Member Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★
    Me and my r4 iHulk disagree, I very much like this champ as is, no need for any changes. Maybe you just need to adjust to the proper playstyle for him.
  • Panchulon21Panchulon21 Member Posts: 2,605 ★★★★★

    Read the title immediately thinking “How can anyone argue this?” But it’s very well done, props to you. I get your point, and I think his utility could be expanded a bit. But he is REALLY good for the matchups where he excels.

    He’s the Mike Williams of MCoC. One of the best in a good matchup, but downright useless in the bad ones

    Great analogy. I guaranteed 90% who read this blew this comment way over their head.

    I have Mike Williams in my fantasy team and he’s pissing me off lol
  • AmaadAkiraAmaadAkira Member Posts: 390 ★★★
    Kerneas said:

    Point 2 also goes for Hercules tho. With rest I agree

    Herc doesn't need immortality for his gameplay style. It's a bonus. Similar to hela's indestructible, and Phoenix's immortality.

    iHulk effectively NEEDS it and his gameplay style requires for it too as he's constantly killing himself.

    I agree with everything except for the parts about him killing himself, you're converting your health into gamma persistent charges which you get back and then you have a cooldown for your damage unless you want to risk it at low health. He's really not a risky champion to play if you play him right. You go from 100% to 0%, you have 100% health in persistent charges, and then you get almost 100% health back from the regen (it's about 95% i believe). He's also incredibly sustainable if you're on 0% gamma, you can get back up to 100% with a good stun chain and building gamma at 0% health, a definite item saver.

    A point on Assassins, that can only stop his immortality if you get hit by the opponent. Since it's DAAR, it can't occur while you are hitting the opponent and triggering immortality. Not that he's a great war champ due to inconsistency with AI, but just wanted to correct that.

    Overall, I tend to agree though, there's a reason I don't use my R3 anywhere except EoP where you can get infinite retries for perfect AI

    You're correct about the assassins mastery part.

    However, converting health to gamma radiation is still effectively killing yourself if the opponent has any form of healblock/ability accuracy reduction and they manage to get the last hit in to make you immortal.

    His immortality and healing should NEVER be allowed to be prevented except by maybe some unique skill champions (similar to nick fury's LMD). What's funny is Fury's LMD is a bonus for extra damage and it is not needed for him as there is no reason to kill yourself in the first place. But even he has a better failsafe on his LMD. Whereas iHulk kills himself and his regen/immortality can be bypassed quite easily.
  • ChatterofforumsChatterofforums Member Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★

    Read the title immediately thinking “How can anyone argue this?” But it’s very well done, props to you. I get your point, and I think his utility could be expanded a bit. But he is REALLY good for the matchups where he excels.

    He’s the Mike Williams of MCoC. One of the best in a good matchup, but downright useless in the bad ones

    Great analogy. I guaranteed 90% who read this blew this comment way over their head.

    I have Mike Williams in my fantasy team and he’s pissing me off lol
    Actually 90% of those who commented likely didn't read the entire thing (including myself) as many forum users (to include myself) will skim the long essay posts.

    But in full transparency it doesn't matter as there is nothing that could have been said that would've changed my mind as if I felt he needed a buff I never would've r4 mine.
  • TheBair123TheBair123 Member Posts: 5,344 ★★★★★

    Read the title immediately thinking “How can anyone argue this?” But it’s very well done, props to you. I get your point, and I think his utility could be expanded a bit. But he is REALLY good for the matchups where he excels.

    He’s the Mike Williams of MCoC. One of the best in a good matchup, but downright useless in the bad ones

    Great analogy. I guaranteed 90% who read this blew this comment way over their head.

    I have Mike Williams in my fantasy team and he’s pissing me off lol
    But hey, Keenan Allen is out and it’s an even week. Time for him to eat
  • Panchulon21Panchulon21 Member Posts: 2,605 ★★★★★

    Read the title immediately thinking “How can anyone argue this?” But it’s very well done, props to you. I get your point, and I think his utility could be expanded a bit. But he is REALLY good for the matchups where he excels.

    He’s the Mike Williams of MCoC. One of the best in a good matchup, but downright useless in the bad ones

    Great analogy. I guaranteed 90% who read this blew this comment way over their head.

    I have Mike Williams in my fantasy team and he’s pissing me off lol
    But hey, Keenan Allen is out and it’s an even week. Time for him to eat
    At least he scored last week… lol
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  • AmaadAkiraAmaadAkira Member Posts: 390 ★★★
    edited October 2022
    Some ways to massively improve him:

    SP1 60% stun chance to 100% chance. (You can reliably incorporate sp1 into his gameplay now).

    Infuriate on MM combo for about 6-10 seconds. 20 sec cool down. (No need to worry about rng defensive AI in vanilla match ups).

    Regen from immortality similar to LMD of nick fury - cannot be prevented by heal block. (For someone built around killing themselves, this is NECESSARY).

    Refresh rage stacks by consuming 1 rage stack when medium attacking into opponents block. (Again, helps against defensive ai but doesn't make him fullblown OP as it's built around making a sacrifice).

    Unblockable for ~2 seconds after knocking the opponent down with special - similar to dragon man. (Minutely helps against stun immune/debuff immune/shrug off match ups, as you can go back in after your special attack more reliably).

    Unstoppable nullification when above x rage stacks - similar to cap IW. (Actually gives him some utility that isn't uncommon for science champs and makes sense seen as he's a HULK).

    This would improve him for a lot more content and allow you to work around certain mechanics like stun immunity and healblock without sacrificing entire gameplay rotation.
  • Bigfoot33Bigfoot33 Member Posts: 201 ★★

    Read the title immediately thinking “How can anyone argue this?” But it’s very well done, props to you. I get your point, and I think his utility could be expanded a bit. But he is REALLY good for the matchups where he excels.

    He’s the Mike Williams of MCoC. One of the best in a good matchup, but downright useless in the bad ones

    Spoken as a true fantasy manager. I kinda found his rhythm, if he has a big week, bench him the next.

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  • TerraTerra Member Posts: 8,470 ★★★★★

    If he could get a synergy where his rage just falls off 1 or 2 at a time , he would be perfect

    Synergies aren't the way to improve a champ. It's a lazy approach
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