yes, rankings do get reset and they should be reset every new season.
Fair opinion, perfectly valid, but why do you think so? Back it up please
Because rosters change, players leave the game, they don't deserve to take a spot up just cause they finished there last season, season metas or matchmaking gives unfair advantages like this last season ws had, jusf terrible!.
Also, how would you move up if we kept our rank season after season and everyone's rosters changed?
That's true, especially the point about some metas allowing an easy carry to high division.
This is something we want to address. We're currently working on a solution for this, but I don't have any details on exactly what it would look like, or when you could expect it. It would help uneven matchmaking at the start of a season, and maintain some of your progress from season to season.
At least that addresses my main concern. Thanks Miike. Looking forward to seeing what it is.
No one is arguing that If you reach Gamma one season then you get free Gamma rewards for ever w/o having to play.
ok, I read through your posts again and this is what I got -
1. Players should not start at 0 2. Matchmaking isn't fair/good so players should start at a tier that is not bronze / where they finished last season. 3. Players should not be given rewards for the tier that they will start at.
Could you please help me understand - What is your proposal here?
How is matchmaking affecting your progression?
This has been discussed so many times already. Here are the main bullet points:
- Current matchmaking is based on roster so for a top player to get out of the VT they have to do it vs other top players. There is a loser in every match so a top play HAS to lose progression. This leads to a slower grind for Paragons and some even getting roadblocked (the worst NBA team gets stuck because they can't progress to use the previous analogy) - It's much easier to win matches vs lower players, which is propelling low accounts higher than top accounts (the best high school basketball team making the NBA playoffs). - No one wants Paragons playing UCs so starting stronger players higher in the VT makes logical sense.
The proposal that DNA brought up, and makes a lot of sense, is starting people on a certain number of tiers down from their previous season ending point and giving them objectives to earn the rewards they would have gotten along the way. That way they avoid the new player and still have to play the get their rewards.
No one is arguing that If you reach Gamma one season then you get free Gamma rewards for ever w/o having to play.
ok, I read through your posts again and this is what I got -
1. Players should not start at 0 2. Matchmaking isn't fair/good so players should start at a tier that is not bronze / where they finished last season. 3. Players should not be given rewards for the tier that they will start at.
Could you please help me understand - What is your proposal here?
How is matchmaking affecting your progression?
This has been discussed so many times already. Here are the main bullet points:
- Current matchmaking is based on roster so for a top player to get out of the VT they have to do it vs other top players. There is a loser in every match so a top play HAS to lose progression. This leads to a slower grind for Paragons and some even getting roadblocked (the worst NBA team gets stuck because they can't progress to use the previous analogy) - It's much easier to win matches vs lower players, which is propelling low accounts higher than top accounts (the best high school basketball team making the NBA playoffs). - No one wants Paragons playing UCs so starting stronger players higher in the VT makes logical sense.
The proposal that DNA brought up, and makes a lot of sense, is starting people on a certain number of tiers down from their previous season ending point and giving them objectives to earn the rewards they would have gotten along the way. That way they avoid the new player and still have to play the get their rewards.
I do understand that part to some extent, and I'll be waiting for whatever solution kabam comes up with and then the players who'll be back here complaining.
I hope they can come up with a better solution than whatever's been going around because the ideas of higher placement, objectives sounds more complex that it needs to be.
Paragons will never be able to progress faster, I can guarantee you that. Higher, eh , again not sure because clearly they cannot pit paragons against UC like you said, and they cannot gate rewards or progression.
So why does this happen in BGS. It’s like saying a pro football player and a middle schooler have the same experience because they’ve never played this season. I wish there was some permanence to the rank you achieve and can only go back down by losing. Then change “games won” objectives with “games played” so people are not incentivized to throw.
In Pro football (and really in every sport I can think of including college sprts), every season begins with everyone at the same "rank", with the same record of zero wins and zero losses.
This is a good example that op fails to acknowledge
So why does this happen in BGS. It’s like saying a pro football player and a middle schooler have the same experience because they’ve never played this season. I wish there was some permanence to the rank you achieve and can only go back down by losing. Then change “games won” objectives with “games played” so people are not incentivized to throw.
In Pro football (and really in every sport I can think of including college sprts), every season begins with everyone at the same "rank", with the same record of zero wins and zero losses.
This is a good example that op fails to acknowledge
It really isn't.
The teams within each league all go back to 0 but they don't combine every single league together. If BGs were only for Paragons then you would have a point.
So why does this happen in BGS. It’s like saying a pro football player and a middle schooler have the same experience because they’ve never played this season. I wish there was some permanence to the rank you achieve and can only go back down by losing. Then change “games won” objectives with “games played” so people are not incentivized to throw.
In Pro football (and really in every sport I can think of including college sprts), every season begins with everyone at the same "rank", with the same record of zero wins and zero losses.
In Pro football also, every team is eligible to match every other team, in the same league. There are no “protections” and matchmaking favouritism. BGs are a quite different concept at the moment. Kick starts based on previous season placement, and open matchmaking, is literally the best and the most FAIR way Kabam can go. Many other top tier gaming companies are already doing this in their games, with huge success.
A lot of games do this, Hearthstone would be the one that mirrors this most closely.
Diablo 3 as well. You rebuild every Season.
I love my Crusader
I think it's a system that is good one has to rebuild to get more rewards.
Different games, I suppose, but I like rebuilding every Season for exclusive Rewards. A little different, though. I usually just have a friend Level me by piggybacking for the Exp. Lol.
This is something we want to address. We're currently working on a solution for this, but I don't have any details on exactly what it would look like, or when you could expect it. It would help uneven matchmaking at the start of a season, and maintain some of your progress from season to season.
IMO, if you and I are going for the same rewards, then we should face the same level of competition. I should not have to defeat harder champs than you, and if I do have to, I should get better rewards.
Let's see what changes they make and evaluate again.
In the NBA, when the season starts, everyone has the exact same chance to get into the playoffs. The reigning champs do not get a free playoff spot. You earn what you get.
Do high school teams get put in the NBA at the start of each season?
I want to address this head on. Yes, they do, *if* they satisfy the qualifications for being an NBA team.
The NBA is a closed sport, where competitors must mean the requirements of competition. If they do, they will compete against everyone equally. If they don't they are not allowed to compete at all.
High school teams do not compete against NBA teams not because it is not fair, and not because we rank them identically. High school teams do not compete against the NBA because no high school team is in the NBA. High school teams do not compete against NBA teams for the same reason Injustice players do not compete against MCOC players in Battlegrounds.
please staph with the sports metaphors. everything is not nba or american handegg
I think the problem with most sports analogies is that all sports are different, whereas they are often presented as if all sports treat competitions structurally different. Yes, all competitions share certain aspects, but they often implement those shared ideas in completely different ways. That makes using them to determine how a different competition should work, like Battlegrounds, fraught with side tracks.
Analogies can help explain a position, but they are not all that good for arguing a position. They require the audience to want to accept the analogy. In a hostile environment, all analogies fall apart like wet tissue paper.
IMO, if you and I are going for the same rewards, then we should face the same level of competition. I should not have to defeat harder champs than you, and if I do have to, I should get better rewards.
Let's see what changes they make and evaluate again.
This is something I can certainly agree with.
Everyone should face everyone period. Eventually everyone will rise up to the level they should be reaching.
OR
brackets should be created with different rewards, something like incursions.
But I have to say that I'm happy with the current system as well, I have not faced progression issues but definitely cheaters need to be dealt with. I dropped down a bracket because of cheaters.
In the NBA, when the season starts, everyone has the exact same chance to get into the playoffs. The reigning champs do not get a free playoff spot. You earn what you get.
Do high school teams get put in the NBA at the start of each season?
Here's the thing, you cannot compare 2 different levels that are competing for different prizes. Does a cavalier have different prizes than a paragon in BG? No.
So when the progression/rank resets at the START of every season, it is to give everyone the same footing. Competitions usually start with teams at zero points. F1?? EPL?? FIFA?? NBA?? BG??
It’s amazing how much wrong you crammed into one post. 1) they’re literally not competing for the same prizes. I know that because I can look at the store on my paragon, TB and Cav accounts and see that I get vastly different purchasing options with my trophies.
The EPL? Yeah, the table starts at zero each year, but how’d those teams get there? Well, 17 (or whatever number) played well enough last season to earn a spot. 3 didn’t, and they got replaced by others from a different league who achieved at top of their competition.
And none of this can be compared to American sports. American sports leagues exist as a closed system with no relegation or promotion. The goal of each team is a championship. The goal of each ownership group is usually profit. The goal of the league is to maximize profit while maintaining a semblance of competitive equity. That’s why the worst teams get the best draft picks. Hey…maybe Kabam can give all the uncollected players a 6r4 Galan to level the playing field!
IMO, if you and I are going for the same rewards, then we should face the same level of competition. I should not have to defeat harder champs than you, and if I do have to, I should get better rewards.
Let's see what changes they make and evaluate again.
In a situation of a
2* roster vs 4* roster 6* roster vs 5* roster
2* roster has the harder competition. So should they get better rewards? Why is the 6* roster punished for having a better roster
No one is arguing that If you reach Gamma one season then you get free Gamma rewards for ever w/o having to play.
ok, I read through your posts again and this is what I got -
1. Players should not start at 0 2. Matchmaking isn't fair/good so players should start at a tier that is not bronze / where they finished last season. 3. Players should not be given rewards for the tier that they will start at.
Could you please help me understand - What is your proposal here?
How is matchmaking affecting your progression?
Here’s my proposal, first for the season it’s implemented, then for ongoing seasons.
1) Cav and below start in bronze. TB starts in silver. Paragon starts in gold. TB and paragon players get rewards for the milestones before their starting point.
2) for future seasons, gladiator circuit players start in gold. Anyone who reaches platinum or better in the VT starts in silver. Everyone else starts in bronze.
Starting at gold 3 is worth 3600 trophies. It’s a nice gesture and a big time saver but it doesn’t change the game at all.
In the NBA, when the season starts, everyone has the exact same chance to get into the playoffs. The reigning champs do not get a free playoff spot. You earn what you get.
Do high school teams get put in the NBA at the start of each season?
Here's the thing, you cannot compare 2 different levels that are competing for different prizes. Does a cavalier have different prizes than a paragon in BG? No.
So when the progression/rank resets at the START of every season, it is to give everyone the same footing. Competitions usually start with teams at zero points. F1?? EPL?? FIFA?? NBA?? BG??
It’s amazing how much wrong you crammed into one post. 1) they’re literally not competing for the same prizes. I know that because I can look at the store on my paragon, TB and Cav accounts and see that I get vastly different purchasing options with my trophies.
The EPL? Yeah, the table starts at zero each year, but how’d those teams get there? Well, 17 (or whatever number) played well enough last season to earn a spot. 3 didn’t, and they got replaced by others from a different league who achieved at top of their competition.
And none of this can be compared to American sports. American sports leagues exist as a closed system with no relegation or promotion. The goal of each team is a championship. The goal of each ownership group is usually profit. The goal of the league is to maximize profit while maintaining a semblance of competitive equity. That’s why the worst teams get the best draft picks. Hey…maybe Kabam can give all the uncollected players a 6r4 Galan to level the playing field!
The rewards are the same.
What those shards fetch in the store is different, for now. If a person decides to save those shards, they don't lose value or expire. Not sure if there's a cap.
No one is arguing that If you reach Gamma one season then you get free Gamma rewards for ever w/o having to play.
ok, I read through your posts again and this is what I got -
1. Players should not start at 0 2. Matchmaking isn't fair/good so players should start at a tier that is not bronze / where they finished last season. 3. Players should not be given rewards for the tier that they will start at.
Could you please help me understand - What is your proposal here?
How is matchmaking affecting your progression?
Here’s my proposal, first for the season it’s implemented, then for ongoing seasons.
1) Cav and below start in bronze. TB starts in silver. Paragon starts in gold. TB and paragon players get rewards for the milestones before their starting point.
2) for future seasons, gladiator circuit players start in gold. Anyone who reaches platinum or better in the VT starts in silver. Everyone else starts in bronze.
Starting at gold 3 is worth 3600 trophies. It’s a nice gesture and a big time saver but it doesn’t change the game at all.
It's still Rewards for nothing. That's the problem with the discussion. Starting ahead is one advantage. Wanting all previous Milestones turns into advantage on top of advantage, plus the advantage of the progress made by the time other Players catch up. It becomes compounding expectations.
The reset is good, so there is something to grind, hope they fix the stupid random crash after you finish a fight I have no idea why there are no compensation packages, I have had that at least 10 times, wasting energy and the tokens, no to mention that after a loss like that you need to win to be back at that spot so it is actually not just -15 energy, it is - 30 because you have to pay to get your old spot back.
No one is arguing that If you reach Gamma one season then you get free Gamma rewards for ever w/o having to play.
ok, I read through your posts again and this is what I got -
1. Players should not start at 0 2. Matchmaking isn't fair/good so players should start at a tier that is not bronze / where they finished last season. 3. Players should not be given rewards for the tier that they will start at.
Could you please help me understand - What is your proposal here?
How is matchmaking affecting your progression?
Here’s my proposal, first for the season it’s implemented, then for ongoing seasons.
1) Cav and below start in bronze. TB starts in silver. Paragon starts in gold. TB and paragon players get rewards for the milestones before their starting point.
2) for future seasons, gladiator circuit players start in gold. Anyone who reaches platinum or better in the VT starts in silver. Everyone else starts in bronze.
Starting at gold 3 is worth 3600 trophies. It’s a nice gesture and a big time saver but it doesn’t change the game at all.
I think you mean starting in Silver 3 (where Platinum VT players and higher would be starting in your suggestion) is worth 3600 trophies. Starting in Gold 3 (which is where GC players would be starting in your suggestion) would be worth 9900 trophies.
Also, if this is implemented with no other match making changes, then the lower tier players that are currently getting to GC would still almost certainly still get to GC, because they are getting there without the head start now. Which means this would probably allow such players to reach GC sooner, with less effort, and then just park there, allowing them to acquire all of the VT rewards (same as they do now) with fewer matches. I'm not sure that's a result that people will perceive to be more fair than what we have now.
No one is arguing that If you reach Gamma one season then you get free Gamma rewards for ever w/o having to play.
ok, I read through your posts again and this is what I got -
1. Players should not start at 0 2. Matchmaking isn't fair/good so players should start at a tier that is not bronze / where they finished last season. 3. Players should not be given rewards for the tier that they will start at.
Could you please help me understand - What is your proposal here?
How is matchmaking affecting your progression?
Here’s my proposal, first for the season it’s implemented, then for ongoing seasons.
1) Cav and below start in bronze. TB starts in silver. Paragon starts in gold. TB and paragon players get rewards for the milestones before their starting point.
2) for future seasons, gladiator circuit players start in gold. Anyone who reaches platinum or better in the VT starts in silver. Everyone else starts in bronze.
Starting at gold 3 is worth 3600 trophies. It’s a nice gesture and a big time saver but it doesn’t change the game at all.
I think you mean starting in Silver 3 (where Platinum VT players and higher would be starting in your suggestion) is worth 3600 trophies. Starting in Gold 3 (which is where GC players would be starting in your suggestion) would be worth 9900 trophies.
Also, if this is implemented with no other match making changes, then the lower tier players that are currently getting to GC would still almost certainly still get to GC, because they are getting there without the head start now. Which means this would probably allow such players to reach GC sooner, with less effort, and then just park there, allowing them to acquire all of the VT rewards (same as they do now) with fewer matches. I'm not sure that's a result that people will perceive to be more fair than what we have now.
Matchmaking must be random on every implementation with kick starts. Kick starts are being used by many games, in order to regulate huge miss matches, and be able to run random matchmaking (within tier) in order to have a fair and genuine competition. Kabam can use kick starts too and open matchmaking, giving an end to the BGs fiasco we have for nearly two seasons already. Alt tiny accounts placing far higher than main huge accounts, in a competitive mode, should have hit them the alarm to take action and make things right.
In the NBA, when the season starts, everyone has the exact same chance to get into the playoffs. The reigning champs do not get a free playoff spot. You earn what you get.
Do high school teams get put in the NBA at the start of each season?
Here's the thing, you cannot compare 2 different levels that are competing for different prizes. Does a cavalier have different prizes than a paragon in BG? No.
So when the progression/rank resets at the START of every season, it is to give everyone the same footing. Competitions usually start with teams at zero points. F1?? EPL?? FIFA?? NBA?? BG??
It’s amazing how much wrong you crammed into one post. 1) they’re literally not competing for the same prizes. I know that because I can look at the store on my paragon, TB and Cav accounts and see that I get vastly different purchasing options with my trophies.
The EPL? Yeah, the table starts at zero each year, but how’d those teams get there? Well, 17 (or whatever number) played well enough last season to earn a spot. 3 didn’t, and they got replaced by others from a different league who achieved at top of their competition.
And none of this can be compared to American sports. American sports leagues exist as a closed system with no relegation or promotion. The goal of each team is a championship. The goal of each ownership group is usually profit. The goal of the league is to maximize profit while maintaining a semblance of competitive equity. That’s why the worst teams get the best draft picks. Hey…maybe Kabam can give all the uncollected players a 6r4 Galan to level the playing field!
Just because you say you can't compare doesn't mean you can't. It is easily comparable and great because that's the take the op took.
Comments
- Current matchmaking is based on roster so for a top player to get out of the VT they have to do it vs other top players. There is a loser in every match so a top play HAS to lose progression. This leads to a slower grind for Paragons and some even getting roadblocked (the worst NBA team gets stuck because they can't progress to use the previous analogy)
- It's much easier to win matches vs lower players, which is propelling low accounts higher than top accounts (the best high school basketball team making the NBA playoffs).
- No one wants Paragons playing UCs so starting stronger players higher in the VT makes logical sense.
The proposal that DNA brought up, and makes a lot of sense, is starting people on a certain number of tiers down from their previous season ending point and giving them objectives to earn the rewards they would have gotten along the way. That way they avoid the new player and still have to play the get their rewards.
I hope they can come up with a better solution than whatever's been going around because the ideas of higher placement, objectives sounds more complex that it needs to be.
Paragons will never be able to progress faster, I can guarantee you that. Higher, eh , again not sure because clearly they cannot pit paragons against UC like you said, and they cannot gate rewards or progression.
I think it's a system that is good one has to rebuild to get more rewards.
The teams within each league all go back to 0 but they don't combine every single league together. If BGs were only for Paragons then you would have a point.
There are no “protections” and matchmaking favouritism.
BGs are a quite different concept at the moment.
Kick starts based on previous season placement, and open matchmaking, is literally the best and the most FAIR way Kabam can go.
Many other top tier gaming companies are already doing this in their games, with huge success.
Let's see what changes they make and evaluate again.
The NBA is a closed sport, where competitors must mean the requirements of competition. If they do, they will compete against everyone equally. If they don't they are not allowed to compete at all.
High school teams do not compete against NBA teams not because it is not fair, and not because we rank them identically. High school teams do not compete against the NBA because no high school team is in the NBA. High school teams do not compete against NBA teams for the same reason Injustice players do not compete against MCOC players in Battlegrounds.
Analogies can help explain a position, but they are not all that good for arguing a position. They require the audience to want to accept the analogy. In a hostile environment, all analogies fall apart like wet tissue paper.
Everyone should face everyone period. Eventually everyone will rise up to the level they should be reaching.
OR
brackets should be created with different rewards, something like incursions.
But I have to say that I'm happy with the current system as well, I have not faced progression issues but definitely cheaters need to be dealt with. I dropped down a bracket because of cheaters.
The EPL? Yeah, the table starts at zero each year, but how’d those teams get there? Well, 17 (or whatever number) played well enough last season to earn a spot. 3 didn’t, and they got replaced by others from a different league who achieved at top of their competition.
And none of this can be compared to American sports. American sports leagues exist as a closed system with no relegation or promotion. The goal of each team is a championship. The goal of each ownership group is usually profit. The goal of the league is to maximize profit while maintaining a semblance of competitive equity. That’s why the worst teams get the best draft picks. Hey…maybe Kabam can give all the uncollected players a 6r4 Galan to level the playing field!
2* roster vs 4* roster
6* roster vs 5* roster
2* roster has the harder competition. So should they get better rewards? Why is the 6* roster punished for having a better roster
1) Cav and below start in bronze. TB starts in silver. Paragon starts in gold. TB and paragon players get rewards for the milestones before their starting point.
2) for future seasons, gladiator circuit players start in gold. Anyone who reaches platinum or better in the VT starts in silver. Everyone else starts in bronze.
Starting at gold 3 is worth 3600 trophies. It’s a nice gesture and a big time saver but it doesn’t change the game at all.
What those shards fetch in the store is different, for now.
If a person decides to save those shards, they don't lose value or expire. Not sure if there's a cap.
I have no idea why there are no compensation packages, I have had that at least 10 times, wasting energy and the tokens, no to mention that after a loss like that you need to win to be back at that spot so it is actually not just -15 energy, it is - 30 because you have to pay to get your old spot back.
Also, if this is implemented with no other match making changes, then the lower tier players that are currently getting to GC would still almost certainly still get to GC, because they are getting there without the head start now. Which means this would probably allow such players to reach GC sooner, with less effort, and then just park there, allowing them to acquire all of the VT rewards (same as they do now) with fewer matches. I'm not sure that's a result that people will perceive to be more fair than what we have now.
Kick starts are being used by many games, in order to regulate huge miss matches, and be able to run random matchmaking (within tier) in order to have a fair and genuine competition.
Kabam can use kick starts too and open matchmaking, giving an end to the BGs fiasco we have for nearly two seasons already.
Alt tiny accounts placing far higher than main huge accounts, in a competitive mode, should have hit them the alarm to take action and make things right.