Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

Chuck_Finley · March 2023

Sure hope Alabama

Omedenn said:
Are we still allowed to farm units in the arena? Or should we buy them?

There will be a daily event for 40 units. Thanks for understanding our compromise. You’re welcome.

-Kabam

TheInfinty · March 2023

“Spamming revives” really? Kabam couldn’t get a better excuse? You can spam revives by spending money in high level content but kabam won’t complain about that! Utterly stupid. At least try to have a good excuse if your gonna **** all over us cause this ain’t it man.

tusharNair · March 2023

DNA3000 said:

FiiNCH said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
People trying to complete content with no access to farming revives perhaps..
Just "people?" Sure, but which people who don't have access to farming revives? Everyone keeps saying this is a cash grab. But how many of them are actually planning on spending cash because of this cash grab?

It can't be a cash grab if no one actually spends on it. And while I'm sure someone somewhere will spend something, it won't be an effective cash grab unless a large number of players spend.

I don't think this has anything to do with monetization, because there is simply not enough money on the table. The problem is a much more direct problem with top tier content balancing.

Content in this game is balanced in large part on a curve. Which is to say, the more players who complete it, the easier it is. The fewer players that complete it, or the more players that attempt it and fail, the harder it is. That's the definition of content difficulty. It isn't hard because it looks hard on paper. Its hard if we can't do it.

If we all go into EoP with a hundred revives, we're going to tear through it like it is tissue paper. This shows up in the game data as a massive imbalance between the rewards and the measured difficulty of the content. This means one of two things: EoP-like content must now have much lower rewards, or EoP-like content must be diesigned vastly harder until the content is measured to be difficult enough to be appropriate.

The devs can't just "let us use the revives" because they can't just make the content and then let us do whatever we want to it. That's not how games like this are maintained. If we use tons of consumables to beat the content, the content will have to adjust to that.

So what's it going to be? Eventually have all end game content *only* doable with hundreds of revives, and if you don't farm hundreds of consumables it will just be impossible for you? Or have end game content have trivial rewards appropriate to the fact that pretty much everyone sails through it? Or reduce the flow of otherwise practically unlimited consumables and allow content to be balanced around players having a more manageable amount of consumables to throw at the content.

This problem is independent of monetization and has nothing to do with it. Whether Kabam makes more, less, or the same amount of money, they still have to solve this problem. Exponentially increase the difficulty, logarithmically lower the rewards, or reduce unlimited consumable farming. You have to pick one. And as someone who used to farm potions and revives enough to actually know the statistical average return of those maps accurately, of those three options I dislike the third one the least.

I won't like seeing my revive farms disappear. But I think I would like seeing all future end game content be designed in such a way that neutralizes that advantage even less. Once it gets hard enough that even the top tier players are going to need hundreds of revives to complete it, what are players like me supposed to do? We'd be locked out completely. But that's where this ultimately goes, if it is left unchecked.

Put a revive cap on these so called difficult content if it's not a money / time grab ....it will help surely be then difficult

dlgmbgt · March 2023

Terrible move. Perhaps Kabam should focus some attention on improving the game play issues vs. sticking it to the player base. I’m really starting to believe Kabam no longer deserves my money for the product they are providing. Been playing from the beginning and I’m a little ashamed to admit it but I have spent thousands of dollars over the years. I guess it’s time to stop that.

XSquad · March 2023

If we spam revive farming it costs us energy refills which we purchase with units. So not sure it is that big a deal. We simply convert 30 units energy refills to get level one revives that we cannot buy which would be 20 units if we did…instead of 40 unit level 2s that we a would have to purchase in any case. It’s a 10 unit gain on average. It’s not without a cost. It is just transferring one resource into another.

Mcoc_Play3r · March 2023

Lol, typical Kabam. Greeds can bite you back in the bum. Im a spender and i also farm revives. By clearing contents it encourages me to spend on my champs and resources to lvl up… well guess what? I aint gonna spend real cash for some revives and guess what, i just wont spend anything. I guess spending 6 hrs a day on this game to grind nonstop is actually a bad thing. Thanks for making it easier on my wallet.

Vydra · March 2023

Well, here’s a repost since the other one got deleted in a record 2 minutes due to some harmful buzzwords

Time to turn the spotlight to the biggest factor contributing to “content trivialisation” and that’s new accounts accruing hard and endgame content rewards through unscrupulous means

These accounts get to keep ALL of the rewards that they got through egregious means even after a small ban. This is CONTENT TRIVIALISATION. So it’s insane to think the player base that farms revives are the ones “trivialising content”

And since the game team said they’re open to suggestions on how to adjust their punishments for such players, here’s some :

1. Remove ALL rewards from their accounts that’s deemed “exclusive enough from hard content” E.g Abyss, EoP, anything Carina’s related, Act7-8 and future Acts
2. Reset their content progression after their punishment ends

It’s obvious your systems detect who bypasses such content way too easily so these are added policies to make sure the content our dear game team has worked so hard crafting isn’t tarnished in unintended ways

End of the day, players still get the chance to “repent” and run through content like it was meant to

Bulloney · March 2023

For me, there’s a limit to farming. You have to be engaged with the game to farm the revives, so the most reasonable level I could get to would be about 60-80 before they start expiring. And they’re 20% revives so they’re getting me back in the match but first hit I’m dead at higher level content. Others likely do much better but the assumption that it’s virtually unlimited is probably not accurate for the majority of the player base.

Mackey · March 2023

Bulloney said:
For me, there’s a limit to farming. You have to be engaged with the game to farm the revives, so the most reasonable level I could get to would be about 60-80 before they start expiring. And they’re 20% revives so they’re getting me back in the match but first hit I’m dead at higher level content. Others likely do much better but the assumption that it’s virtually unlimited is probably not accurate for the majority of the player base.

Oh but because 1 person can do it then deem it unlimited. Logic escapes this company

Vedisuke · March 2023

Colinwhitworth69 · March 2023

Is this is an early April Fool’s joke?

FlipBoy · March 2023

Kabam strikes again. Players are already losing interest in the game so they decide to make the game even more ridiculous. All kabam cares about is filling their pockets with money and not giving a single thought to how their players will react. There was nothing wrong with farming revives. Now they wanna make players spend money to buy revives. This game already is a pay to win and now they will make it a pay to play as well. Really stupid move kabam. What else are you all going to take away from players. I bet their next move is to make energy refill from alliance mates only once a day so players will be forced to buy energy refills.

tusharNair · March 2023

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

Worknprogress said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AustinU823 said:
I want to see the number of players
Eb0ny-O-M4w said:
I have a better suggestion for the "spamming revives" issue.

How about adding a cooldown of like, 30 minutes before you're able to use a revive again?

That way people won't just spam them. They are either forced to play their very best so that they can get the max use out of their try, or either have to patiently wait 30 minutes to try again.

You can also add an option to watch like 5x ads to skip the cooldown. And another option to skip it via some additional units as well, why not.
That’s not the real issue. They don’t care that you’re using a lot of revives. They care that you’re not spending 40 units a piece for them
From what I understand, they care about the level of challenge that the content they release provides. When you have Players sitting on stockpiles of Revs from farming and they're pushing through it the day it's released, that puts a strain on design. At least that's what I'm interpretating.
Revive spamming only really works as well as it does bc they let Herc loose busted as all hell. A 20% revive with no pots doesn't get you very far most of the time unless you just so happen to have a champ that goes immortal and unblockable for a minute or two at a time. Probably should have looked at that first...

I mean, it's an interesting theory, but I doubt it is completely related to Herc. There are other, less dramatic ways to resolve that.

IiIooIiI · March 2023

Kabam got a new CEO in Jan 2022. He came from their parent company, he was not brought in to make players happy, he was brought in to make money.

It’s been very obvious since then however this is a level of extreme I couldn’t imagine.

If this isn’t a joke Kabam unveils April 1st, I would be embarrassed for them.

I spend a nice chunk of change on this game. Moving forwards I’ll stop and just play alliance events with my friends (alliance). I hate Arena to the point I buy units, but I’ll have some free time to farm units now.

I know people who spent 40+ revives on some of the end game content/carinas challenges.

This screws new players the most who haven’t done Abyss type content, and no longer can farm. Free to play or not, this creates unequal balance in the game.

Squammo · March 2023

We would need much less revives if the game was working properly right now. At least push it forward until the input issues are finally fixed.

BostonSpidey124 · March 2023

So many good points. Just want to reiterate the ones I agree most with to increase the chances of someone from Kabam reading them.

If you want to stop Revive spacing in hard content, limit how many resources can be used there. That way someone can’t just buy the revives to beat hard content.

Are you really trying to tell me that hard content is designed such that you can beat it without Revives? Carina challenge Vol 1, defeating Labyrinth of Legends with four stars shouldn’t need any revives if you are skilled enough? I would love to see Kabam live stream a demonstration of how achievable the toughest content is without spamming revives.

This feels like an attempt to force summoners to get revives with units as there is no limit on how many to get that way. Revive farming is not free. It costs time and energy.

LuckySpark_1 · March 2023

Am I understanding this correct? To save us from the burden of using 42 energy and rng based paths to farm revives. You came to the “ compromise “ of allowing us to complete a quest ONCE a day with a 1% chance for a lvl 1 revive and a 5% chance for a lvl 2 revive?
So the word “ compromise “ means an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions. Since you guys are so into transparency please enlighten us on what actively playing summoners helped in this?
The “ compromised solution “ is to STILL cost us energy, only let us run it ONCE a day, and have a RNG % of obtaining a form of a revive which at that %rate is basically impossible to ever achieve a revive.

Don’t you have other issues to work on like maybe the bots that steal everything in arenas? Or the battlegrounds cheaters every season? Or hitting delete on the entire relics project cause it’s pretty much pointless? Or the input issues? Or the constant bugs with every update? Or the animation issues of champs? I mean I could prolly go on with more but those seem like a good start on things to actually address and fix. The priority of what you guys actually care about fixing and changing is very very sad…

Chuck_Finley · March 2023

IiIooIiI said:
Kabam got a new CEO in Jan 2022. He came from their parent company, he was not brought in to make players happy, he was brought in to make money.

It’s been very obvious since then however this is a level of extreme I couldn’t imagine.

If this isn’t a joke Kabam unveils April 1st, I would be embarrassed for them.

I spend a nice chunk of change on this game. Moving forwards I’ll stop and just play alliance events with my friends (alliance). I hate Arena to the point I buy units, but I’ll have some free time to farm units now.

I know people who spent 40+ revives on some of the end game content/carinas challenges.

This screws new players the most who haven’t done Abyss type content, and no longer can farm. Free to play or not, this creates unequal balance in the game.

Relatively new thronebreaker here. Didn’t have the roster for high end content. So I am just out or spend money. But why do the latter for a company who can’t figure out basic issues in the game while ticking off the legit player base like this?

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

Gmonkey said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Worknprogress said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AustinU823 said:
I want to see the number of players
Eb0ny-O-M4w said:
I have a better suggestion for the "spamming revives" issue.

How about adding a cooldown of like, 30 minutes before you're able to use a revive again?

That way people won't just spam them. They are either forced to play their very best so that they can get the max use out of their try, or either have to patiently wait 30 minutes to try again.

You can also add an option to watch like 5x ads to skip the cooldown. And another option to skip it via some additional units as well, why not.
That’s not the real issue. They don’t care that you’re using a lot of revives. They care that you’re not spending 40 units a piece for them
From what I understand, they care about the level of challenge that the content they release provides. When you have Players sitting on stockpiles of Revs from farming and they're pushing through it the day it's released, that puts a strain on design. At least that's what I'm interpretating.
Revive spamming only really works as well as it does bc they let Herc loose busted as all hell. A 20% revive with no pots doesn't get you very far most of the time unless you just so happen to have a champ that goes immortal and unblockable for a minute or two at a time. Probably should have looked at that first...
I mean, it's an interesting theory, but I doubt it is completely related to Herc. There are other, less dramatic ways to resolve that.
I revive farmed for carinas. I used the 20% on the first 4 right side fights then 40% and team for the next 4. Some are mass spamming though 150+.

He isn't the first Champ that resists dying though.

Feeney234 · March 2023

Lmao what a joke. I cant wait until the real surge of outrage begins

Snaponstewy · March 2023

They do this but don't fix input issues or blatant ai cheating basically and the modders no they go after the ftp players and make it so they can now profit of spaming revives...well why don't u fix ur game and we won't have to spam revives..duhhhh..but in all seriousness what is this nonsense going on..they ate complaining about people finishing to quick?? Drop rates are to high..well drop rates of inputs are high..but they are not fixing them..ai doing basically illegal modder moves but its ok because the player has to spend more resources because of it..this game is going down the toliet real real fast this is the funniest thing ever

PH_Junky · March 2023

It’s our fault, how dare we use something that’s in game and utilize something else that’s in game, energy refills to accomplish such feats. Don’t use time and resources to get to where you want, only spend. Our bad

BigPoppaCBONE · March 2023

Gmonkey said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Worknprogress said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AustinU823 said:
I want to see the number of players
Eb0ny-O-M4w said:
I have a better suggestion for the "spamming revives" issue.

How about adding a cooldown of like, 30 minutes before you're able to use a revive again?

That way people won't just spam them. They are either forced to play their very best so that they can get the max use out of their try, or either have to patiently wait 30 minutes to try again.

You can also add an option to watch like 5x ads to skip the cooldown. And another option to skip it via some additional units as well, why not.
That’s not the real issue. They don’t care that you’re using a lot of revives. They care that you’re not spending 40 units a piece for them
From what I understand, they care about the level of challenge that the content they release provides. When you have Players sitting on stockpiles of Revs from farming and they're pushing through it the day it's released, that puts a strain on design. At least that's what I'm interpretating.
Revive spamming only really works as well as it does bc they let Herc loose busted as all hell. A 20% revive with no pots doesn't get you very far most of the time unless you just so happen to have a champ that goes immortal and unblockable for a minute or two at a time. Probably should have looked at that first...
I mean, it's an interesting theory, but I doubt it is completely related to Herc. There are other, less dramatic ways to resolve that.
I revive farmed for carinas. I used the 20% on the first 4 right side fights then 40% and team for the next 4. Some are mass spamming though 150+.

If they were able to amass 150+ revives by farming, given our inventory and stash limits, for content that they had no warning about, you have to respect it. They earned those rewards.

Jaded · March 2023

So at best people will be able to have 31 revives w/sigil and even less total without sigil.

I haven’t completed EOP, i stopped farming revives a long time ago. I already gave up on content that requires the average player to throw up a ton of revives. This will change will do nothing more but make it easier to just walk away from ridiculous hard content that will cost 5k units worth of revives. It’s like dominos, once one falls the all fall eventually. So today I don’t do EOP, tomorrow I don’t do Abyss 2.0, months from
Now I don’t bother with story content. Then I’m only logging in for Aq and AW, those are already a drag on the quality of life we could have. Kabam wants to go line their pockets with revive money then so be it, it just won’t come from me.

Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

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