Apple Now Requires Game Developers to disclose odds on "Loot Boxes" [MERGED THREADS]

Vdh2008 · 2017-12-21T16:58:46+00:00

Any comments on this?<br/><br/><a href="https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/21/16805674/apple-loot-box-app-store-games-odds-probability-disclosure" rel="nofollow">https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/21/16805674/apple-loot-box-app-store-games-odds-probability-disclosure</a><br/><br/>

Vdh2008

Any comments on this?

https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/21/16805674/apple-loot-box-app-store-games-odds-probability-disclosure

Comments

Vdh2008

I'm not personally a conspiracy nut that believes Kabam modifies or changes any odds for anyone, however, I think it IS important to tell us exactly how likely we are to pull a certain champ or rarity out of a given crystal. It helps some people decide if they SHOULD be spending the units/ $$ on it.

Those of us that have been around since the games inception, we know that crystals are not a great way to build a roster. We know they are a bad investment of units.

DarkestDestroyer

I bet they will say a crystal isn't a loot box or something.

Vdh2008

DarkestDestroyer wrote: »

I bet they will say a crystal isn't a loot box or something.

Apple will likely decide... Kabam can say "these crystals are NOT loot boxes", and all that will do is prompt users to complain to the App Store support. They will likely have to submit to this or MCOC will be pulled from the iOS store.

SteelCurtainMUT

Yeah lottery odds have to displayed legally, same concept here. They should absolutely have the odds, it’s funny how they refuse to say anything about crystal odds

Thatweirdguy

Yeah I do not think they will be able to get around this. Apple won't let something slide through a loophole. Apple is trying to get in front of Federal regulations that they feel are coming. They are strict on the app store. I doubt Kabam would even try to get around it.

Jeepetti

Omni wrote: »

Kestrelle wrote: »

Omni wrote: »

Kestrelle wrote: »

This is really a gigantic win for gamers. I am very impressed with Apple on this one

Not for us if it drastically changes the in game economy in a negative way

I strongly disagree. This definitely does have the potential to have a big impact on this, and every other game with loot crates. Even if it looks like a negative on the surface, I view this as an unquestionable positive

Kabam makes x amount of their money off of loot crystals. If they now disclose drop rates and it changes people’s purchasing pattern and less revenue comes in they will have two choices.

Strip the game team down to keep their profit target or change the economy of the game to entice people to purchase other in game items directly. If you thought a 5 star crystal was expensive now, wait until they figure out how much to charge to keep their same profit margin.

You mean the game might start to crash or go down for no apparent reason? Oh no, we can't be having that.

theKOBRA

roastedbagel wrote: »

Genuine question... What does this change?

When it says "this featured 5* crystal has 1% chance to pull X", what will that change? Will you no longer open one? Of course you will. Just like you do now knowing the odds are super low.

I'm not trying to be snarky, I just think this will have 0 affect on the game and how we choose to open crystals. We already know the odds are ****.

Bagel, you are probably correct. Or at least close to correct. We really don't know how this will impact spending, but if users behavior changes then we might see some minor tweaks.

I also expect Kabam to take advantage of this once they roll out an update with published odds. I've always assumed something like 10% 3*, 1% 4*. Let's assume that's accurate. When a new crystal rolls out, why not offer a more expensive, say 400-500 unit version with something like tripled odds?

Either way, I don't expect Whales behavior to change. But this might have a big impact on casual, new or middle tiered players.

Omni

Jeepetti wrote: »

Omni wrote: »

Kestrelle wrote: »

Omni wrote: »

Kestrelle wrote: »

This is really a gigantic win for gamers. I am very impressed with Apple on this one

Not for us if it drastically changes the in game economy in a negative way

I strongly disagree. This definitely does have the potential to have a big impact on this, and every other game with loot crates. Even if it looks like a negative on the surface, I view this as an unquestionable positive

Kabam makes x amount of their money off of loot crystals. If they now disclose drop rates and it changes people’s purchasing pattern and less revenue comes in they will have two choices.

Strip the game team down to keep their profit target or change the economy of the game to entice people to purchase other in game items directly. If you thought a 5 star crystal was expensive now, wait until they figure out how much to charge to keep their same profit margin.

You mean the game might start to crash or go down for no apparent reason? Oh no, we can't be having that.

Lol, more then it already does.

Thatweirdguy

"Apps offering “loot boxes” or other mechanisms that provide randomized virtual items for purchase must disclose the odds of receiving each type of item to customers prior to purchase."

That is from the Apple regs. No way to get around this. Full transparency coming.

Also check out this one: "Apps should not directly or indirectly enable gifting of in-app purchase content, features, or consumable items to others." No more gifting event?

Seatin did a nice video on it.

FAL7EN

Kabam would rather close the doors than to reveal their secret drop rates lol

Kpatrix

Most in app purchases are for units, which can be used to buy whatever you choose. I don't think these regulations will affect anything other than crystals that are sold for cash only, like the daily offers for class specific crystals or the occasional class crystals they sell.

You can earn units in game as well as purchase them, and what you do with those units is at your own discretion, whether it be buying items or crystals. As long as they aren't selling 5 GMC for $30 straight up, it doesn't seem like this would affect anything, and even if it did, what would knowing the odds do for anyone unless they made it so you would be guaranteed at least one 5* for every group of x crystals you buy in a "loot box" package ?

Fluffy

This will increase spending on this, and many other games. Now people will "chase" the odds. Instead of giving up at 10, gamers will assume the next one has better odds. This is net positive for the gaming companies.

weapon_xtreme83

Fluffy wrote: »

This will increase spending on this, and many other games. Now people will "chase" the odds. Instead of giving up at 10, gamers will assume the next one has better odds. This is net positive for the gaming companies.

I get what you're saying. But if this is net positive for the gaming companies why has Kabam always been reluctant to release the drop rates? Especially if it will be more profitable for them.

Fluffy

Because you don't give up proprietary information until someone makes you.

1haunted_memory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q7RhQBtwx4

Kestrelle

Does this announcement have anything to do with these timers?

Thatweirdguy

I doubt this is a posi

Fluffy wrote: »

This will increase spending on this, and many other games. Now people will "chase" the odds. Instead of giving up at 10, gamers will assume the next one has better odds. This is net positive for the gaming companies.

I find this highly unlikely. Now that Apple has stepped in and forced the issue of publishing drop rates, I suspect that Kabam is now going to revamp their revenue streams or improve drop rates.

Yankeespank

I asked this same question in a bug report and Kabam gave me a copy and paste luck drawing and when I asked for the percentages it was copied again and resent. And this was yesterday.

Evangelionlovr

I bet apple is annoyed with having to refund the people who call saying "my kid bought $XXX on this app" since you know a good portion of it is people who are displeased with drop rates.

RehctansBew

roastedbagel wrote: »

Genuine question... What does this change?

When it says "this featured 5* crystal has 1% chance to pull X", what will that change? Will you no longer open one? Of course you will. Just like you do now knowing the odds are super low.

I'm not trying to be snarky, I just think this will have 0 affect on the game and how we choose to open crystals. We already know the odds are ****.

I think it will have an effect, when people see the real numbers. 1% chance would be good compared to what it actually might be. It will deter some from spending. But those that drop 300 on feature crystals are going to do it regardless.

L3X3CU710N3R

Having to disclose that a loot box has a 1% drop rate for the only desirable contents is pretty damning to the business model. Imagine if you only a had 1% chance to get what you wanted for every purchase on Amazon?

RehctansBew

Endz wrote: »

Why does everyone care about knowing the odds?? Can someone explain to me what this would actually change as far as pulling champs go??

My guess would be if there is a 10% chance at pulling a champ and you open up 200 crystals and don't pull him you get to feel even more unlucky.

unknown

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L3X3CU710N3R

Ad0ra_ wrote: »

Hey Summoners, we've touched on this subject a bit before, but just to re-emphasize - we adhere to any rules, regulations, and laws that we are required to abide by. We are currently working with Apple to better understand these new guidelines, are still learning about them ourselves and what the impact of these changes will be. We don't have any further information to share or discuss at this time, but once that changes, we will of course let everyone know!

I know what the impact of the changes will be... time to find a new business model.

unknown

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Nanimal79

Omni wrote: »

Kestrelle wrote: »

Omni wrote: »

Kestrelle wrote: »

This is really a gigantic win for gamers. I am very impressed with Apple on this one

Not for us if it drastically changes the in game economy in a negative way

I strongly disagree. This definitely does have the potential to have a big impact on this, and every other game with loot crates. Even if it looks like a negative on the surface, I view this as an unquestionable positive

Kabam makes x amount of their money off of loot crystals. If they now disclose drop rates and it changes people’s purchasing pattern and less revenue comes in they will have two choices.

Strip the game team down to keep their profit target or change the economy of the game to entice people to purchase other in game items directly. If you thought a 5 star crystal was expensive now, wait until they figure out how much to charge to keep their same profit margin.

Or increase the odds until spending goes back up.

chev327fox

Endz wrote: »

Why does everyone care about knowing the odds?? Can someone explain to me what this would actually change as far as pulling champs go??

I think it is becasue real world cash being involved it just changes everything (these new rules are long overdue).

KhanMedina

This will be hard to enforce here. Nothing stopping them from saying chance at 4 star is 20% but the 4 star is Luke Cage. I really believe there's a higher droprate on colossus and other junk champs than for Wolvie, but I can't see them breaking down a % for each champ.

gahrling

About damn time.

weapon_xtreme83

Dave_the_destroyer wrote: »

Cant be arsed reding the pages of the same moaners

There is one very simple fix if you dont like the drop rates - dont buy anything in the game! Or better still, dont play the game

Surprised you haven't made a poll about it yet.

It's not that people don't know the drop rates are low. We all know it's low, but would like the transparency of knowing the actual number.