Potential solution for the revive situation

Add in some kind of trade for full energy refills to revives

1 (maybe 2) full refills = 1 lvl 1 revive

To make sure this isn’t exploited, the store trade could be limited to 1 or 2 per day.

Comments

GalactikDonut

I don't think it would cause any problems, in the usual sense of the word. But you don't do things because there's no reason not to do them, you only do them when there's a very good reason to do them. We just nerfed the revive farms, because Kabam wanted to a) reduce the amount of revives available to use against difficult content and b) to eliminate the options for effortless revive farming (anyone who wants to argue that revive farming is not effortless can go find someone else to entertain them: I'm using the term the way Kabam does, and the way most normal people understand it).

Why add an effortless way to farm a theoretically unlimited amount of revives you could use in difficult content when you don't need to? Why bother discussing whether it is "practical" or not when this is completely unnecessary and counter to the work you're currently doing?

It is up to the players who would want such a feature to make the case that it is worth doing. And the harder they make that case, the more they demonstrate how much of an impact such a change would make. And by extension, how unsafe it might be to make it.

you’re a real smart cookie, very interesting insight

DNA3000

Apologies for the semantics. I used the term "desperation" because you were describing a player that was just one revive away from beating the grandmaster, and how it would be better for them to either quit or feel forced to spend money in order to win that fight and clear that everest content. That sounds a bit like desperation to me. I did not intend to characterize all situations where players spend money to gain resources as desperation.

You know what spenders would do in a situation like that where they either have to quit or spend to buy a revive, because they miscalculated how many revives they needed to defeat the Grandmaster? They would buy a revive, like you would scratch an itch. Being "forced" to buy a revive is analogous to the kind of situations people find themselves in all the time. You are forced to pay the water bill, or you stop getting water. You are forced to pay your rent or you get kicked out of your house. But unless your circumstances are dire, none of these situations are desperation situations. They are just the matter of fact parts of life.

I'm nowhere near one of the biggest whales of the game, and the feeling I would feel if I ran out of revives and was forced to choose between buying a revive or quitting the fight is dumb, because I miscalculated. Maybe embarrassed, because I needed too many revives. But not desperate because I was being forced to spend money. And to be clear, what we are discussing here is not being forced to spend money. We're talking about being forced to choose between quitting the content and spending money. That's always a valid choice in this game. I wouldn't do that while fighting the Necropolis Grandmaster, but I've quit out of content I couldn't beat without spending, simply because I wanted to beat it without spending so I backed out and tried again. That is always a choice players can make. I wouldn't recommend that choice for Necropolis if you got all the way to the GM, but it is still a choice.

jdschw

Right - ag

You know what spenders would do in a situation like that where they either have to quit or spend to buy a revive, because they miscalculated how many revives they needed to defeat the Grandmaster? They would buy a revive, like you would scratch an itch. Being "forced" to buy a revive is analogous to the kind of situations people find themselves in all the time. You are forced to pay the water bill, or you stop getting water. You are forced to pay your rent or you get kicked out of your house. But unless your circumstances are dire, none of these situations are desperation situations. They are just the matter of fact parts of life.

I'm nowhere near one of the biggest whales of the game, and the feeling I would feel if I ran out of revives and was forced to choose between buying a revive or quitting the fight is dumb, because I miscalculated. Maybe embarrassed, because I needed too many revives. But not desperate because I was being forced to spend money. And to be clear, what we are discussing here is not being forced to spend money. We're talking about being forced to choose between quitting the content and spending money. That's always a valid choice in this game. I wouldn't do that while fighting the Necropolis Grandmaster, but I've quit out of content I couldn't beat without spending, simply because I wanted to beat it without spending so I backed out and tried again. That is always a choice players can make. I wouldn't recommend that choice for Necropolis if you got all the way to the GM, but it is still a choice.

Right, I feel like you might be missing my point, because setting the semantics aside, I'm trying to say this: summoners in that situation already have a choice for getting one more revive without quitting or purchasing units. They can farm the units in the arena. It's quite easy to farm 40 units in the arena.

Given that that opportunity already exists, my point is that the option to auto-complete the apothecary shouldn't actually have much effect on the gameplay decision here. It's not adding a new opportunity - that opportunity already exists. It's just a quality of life improvement for acquiring a maximum of a single L1 revive per day. In terms of absolute numbers, Kabam is clearly onboard with summoners being able to acquire revives at that rate, because the apothecary exists.

All the auto-complete capability would accomplish is (a) allowing summoners to auto-complete instead of auto-play when they're not already running a quest, and (b) allowing summoners to auto-complete instead of 20 minutes of arenas when they are running a quest.

It's just a small quality-of-life improvement, and the effort to implement it is almost certainly minimal, as I discussed above. Small request, tiny price, small benefit. I'm not going to lose any sleep if Kabam never does this, but that doesn't change the fact that I think it's worth asking for.

BringPopcorn

Lol stop trying to find solutions, there is no compromise...

Ngoalong711

revives+ potions Arena

Ngoalong711

revives+ potions Arena

or increase inventory is best

DNA3000

Right, I feel like you might be missing my point, because setting the semantics aside, I'm trying to say this: summoners in that situation already have a choice for getting one more revive without quitting or purchasing units. They can farm the units in the arena. It's quite easy to farm 40 units in the arena.

I get your point fine. You don't seem to be understanding my point, which is that I know that, the devs know that, and that doesn't matter.

In terms of absolute numbers, Kabam is clearly onboard with summoners being able to acquire revives at that rate, because the apothecary exists.

Rate is not the only thing that matters here. How players get resources also matter. Opportunity cost also matters. That's why Kabam is more willing to allow players to spend units for things than farm them. Units are a controlled economy, and units have multiple sinks, which means every unit spent has opportunity cost.

Your argument seems to be if the players can do it, it shouldn't matter how they do it. But that argument nullifies 90% of what game designers do. How many revives players can bring to Everest content is one constraint on revive farming, but it is not the only one. The difference between players farming revives and players buying them with units is a literal night and day difference. Just comparing the one to the other would probably end the conversation with any economy designer that values their time.

PT_99

Apothecary Completion L1 revive
Exploration L2 revive or L1 ehhh
Auto energy complete L1 revive.

There Kabam, I've done the hard part for you guys.

Josh2507

Lol stop trying to find solutions, there is no compromise…

No compromise?

Only a sith deals in absolutes

jdschw

Your argument seems to be if the players can do it, it shouldn't matter how they do it. But that argument nullifies 90% of what game designers do. How many revives players can bring to Everest content is one constraint on revive farming, but it is not the only one. The difference between players farming revives and players buying them with units is a literal night and day difference. Just comparing the one to the other would probably end the conversation with any economy designer that values their time.

I'm not comparing farming revives to buying them with units. You are already allowed to autofight the apothecary. So you can already "farm" the apothecary for revives, in just the same manner that folks did with those act 3 quests. The key difference is the 1/day limit.

Permitting autocompletion of that same apothecary doesn't trade farming for units most of the time. It just trades auto-fighting for auto-completion. If you're arguing that a game economy designer sees those two options as so incomparable that they would just "end the conversation" with me, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

The only situation where auto-completion trades against units is when you are already engaged in a quest. I am arguing that the fact that you're still limited to the same 1/day limit means the practical consequence of this "new" opportunity is very small, and the convenience for players would be worth this small consequence.

That being said, it's clear that you don't agree with me there either, so I'll just leave it at that.