Enjoy the participation numbers on Everest content because you won't see them ever again. Take a picture, put in a frame and hang it on the Conference Room.
The hardest part for me will be trying to farm revives fast enough before they expire since 20 rev inventory space isn't too much. I know some ppl leave their rewards unclaimed to try and manage this
Units don't expire and don't go into your stash... just saying.
300 units isn't "basically free". It's about $10, meaning it would cost me about $30 to do each path of Necropolis. $180 for 6 paths.
Or I could grind for those units if I didn't want to spend.
You don't wanna spend, then you make your peace and enjoy what they give you at the fullest you can. Like it or not, if you are F2P you don't really bring anything to the table, and got 0 power to negotiate a compromise.
Sounds like a peasant to me. I do feel bad for them.
Let’s address the elephant in the room here. Arena is boring af and takes way too long to get units that way. If we can’t farm revives we are going to buying them. No one in their right mind is going to be farming arena for units to then burn them on revives
Beggar for free revives calling someone a peasant, just LOL
Do you play arena a lot? It is not fun at all to be stuck there farming units to cope with the revive nerf
300 units isn't "basically free". It's about $10, meaning it would cost me about $30 to do each path of Necropolis. $180 for 6 paths.
Or I could grind for those units if I didn't want to spend.
You don't wanna spend, then you make your peace and enjoy what they give you at the fullest you can. Like it or not, if you are F2P you don't really bring anything to the table, and got 0 power to negotiate a compromise.
Sounds like a peasant to me. I do feel bad for them.
Let’s address the elephant in the room here. Arena is boring af and takes way too long to get units that way. If we can’t farm revives we are going to buying them. No one in their right mind is going to be farming arena for units to then burn them on revives
Beggar for free revives calling someone a peasant, just LOL
Do you play arena a lot? It is not fun at all to be stuck there farming units to cope with the revive nerf
You don't like arenas to farm units, you don't like 22 hr events to get revives, you don't have time because "you have a life"... Seems to me its not the game for you. You either need to spend a bit or quit, what do you want me to say?
300 units isn't "basically free". It's about $10, meaning it would cost me about $30 to do each path of Necropolis. $180 for 6 paths.
Or I could grind for those units if I didn't want to spend.
You don't wanna spend, then you make your peace and enjoy what they give you at the fullest you can. Like it or not, if you are F2P you don't really bring anything to the table, and got 0 power to negotiate a compromise.
Sounds like a peasant to me. I do feel bad for them.
Let’s address the elephant in the room here. Arena is boring af and takes way too long to get units that way. If we can’t farm revives we are going to buying them. No one in their right mind is going to be farming arena for units to then burn them on revives
Beggar for free revives calling someone a peasant, just LOL
Do you play arena a lot? It is not fun at all to be stuck there farming units to cope with the revive nerf
You don't like arenas to farm units, you don't like 22 hr events to get revives, you don't have time because "you have a life"... Seems to me its not the game for you. You either need to spend a bit or quit, what do you want me to say?
I agree. I just think thats a sad place to have put the game. I think the time investment for the revive farm was actually ok. In some instances it would make more sense to work a day than lose a days wages to revive farm 80-100 revives. The 22 hr event is fine as you get it for just playing. But forcing the grinders out of the game (I mean those with no skill or disposable income) is a shame. But kabam will just see them as dead weight anyway and nothing to worry about.
I explored necro without spending a cent on units or farming more than 100 revives total for the 6 paths. I used plenty of units on revives though.
I'd be ok with the farms staying, as long as total revives in inventory are hard capped at whatever the monthly availability is via Apoth and 22hr events.
Meaning, you can farm your months worth in a day, or do the boring every day thing but the net amount is the same.
Go find an act 6 path thats farmable or start doing some arena. The easy farms are gone and they're not coming back so we all need to adapt our play to the situation instead of complaining.
300 units isn't "basically free". It's about $10, meaning it would cost me about $30 to do each path of Necropolis. $180 for 6 paths.
Or I could grind for those units if I didn't want to spend.
You don't wanna spend, then you make your peace and enjoy what they give you at the fullest you can. Like it or not, if you are F2P you don't really bring anything to the table, and got 0 power to negotiate a compromise.
Sounds like a peasant to me. I do feel bad for them.
Let’s address the elephant in the room here. Arena is boring af and takes way too long to get units that way. If we can’t farm revives we are going to buying them. No one in their right mind is going to be farming arena for units to then burn them on revives
Beggar for free revives calling someone a peasant, just LOL
Do you play arena a lot? It is not fun at all to be stuck there farming units to cope with the revive nerf
You don't like arenas to farm units, you don't like 22 hr events to get revives, you don't have time because "you have a life"... Seems to me its not the game for you. You either need to spend a bit or quit, what do you want me to say?
I agree. I just think thats a sad place to have put the game. I think the time investment for the revive farm was actually ok. In some instances it would make more sense to work a day than lose a days wages to revive farm 80-100 revives. The 22 hr event is fine as you get it for just playing. But forcing the grinders out of the game (I mean those with no skill or disposable income) is a shame. But kabam will just see them as dead weight anyway and nothing to worry about.
No one is forcing grindes out of the game... They are being told to use the units they grind on revives if they want to do Everest content... You have people saying 22 hr events are for people with no life, or using the excuse of having a life... 365 days in a year, 8760 hours, 398ish 22hr events with 25 units each daily 9954 units a year +/- what people grind in Arenas... If you tell me that is not enough to enjoy the game for free...
I have seen you post this many times in different places, and I want to clarify something because we have not avoided this and have been clear about it; you can use all the revives you want if you are willing to use your units on them. We have said exactly that.
Units are powerful, and they are meant to be a choice.
When there are limitless revives available without the cost of units, that is specifically when it prevents the development of end-game content. That is when it is no longer worth our time or effort to make this content because players are not choosing to use their Units to progress over using them on other things.
You can farm all of the units you want and use them to buy all the revives in the world, but you're making the choice there for what you do with those units. You have to decide if you want to use them to finish content or to purchase other items.
You have to make the choice, and that is how this game had been for many years before farming started and the way it should be. Content should not be inevitable, and units aren't only for deals.
I appreciate the response on the subject. This is the first time I have seen you (or someone from Kabam) say that revive use is not the issue, but the revive acquisition method is the existential threat to endgame content. This may be why there's a disconnect between our views on this, so I'd like to understand it more (and hopefully you can understand why I believe what I do).
Notice the language used in this announcement. "Spam revives." "Trivializes difficult content." And tellingly, no mention of units, at all. There is nothing here about how revives are gathered, only how they are used. By my read, your concern with revive farming is that players gain too many revives to use, which you state is "effectively a loophole for these challenging pieces of content." So you'll understand why I think your justification for nerfing revive farming is that too many revives are being used. What I am confused about now, though, is that you say "You can farm all of the units you want and use them to buy all the revives in the world," which appears to contradict the original announcement. Can you explain what you mean by this?
Second, I am not sure I understand why units are a necessary intermediary that players must use. I think we agree that, whether a person is grinding for units or revives, they both represent the same thing: time spent playing the game. Why do you believe that the time spent grinding for units is not equal to the time spent grinding for revives. I agree that units are more powerful. But if the real reason behind your position is giving players a choice, why don't you let players choose whether to spend their time grinding for units or grinding for revives? In theory, if I'm grinding for revives, I can't at the same time be grinding for units to spend on deals. The tradeoff remains the same, I'm just choosing a different path to get there. So if both grinds lead to the same end result of having enough items to complete endgame content, why isn't what's good for the goose good for the gander?
I've already typed more than I intended, I don't like excessively long posts because they're difficult to respond to. So those are my thoughts, hope they shed light on my position for you.
The crux of this is not about giving players a choice about where they spend their time, it's about where they spend their units. They are NOT the same thing, and unless we change to a system where you can only choose Units OR Revives as your reward, you know that players will spend their time doing both.
Units are also a closely controlled system that allows us to ensure that there's only X amount available by grinding every day/week/month/year. This has not prevented F2P players from finding great success in the game, and has been the case since the beginning of the game, including most of the game's lifetime that occurred before farming was possible.
The tradeoff is not the same in these cases.
I would suggest a permanent option for buying pot bundles like the one that expired yesterday with the 500 unit price, specially for those whom have only done 1 path in necro for the road to the crypt rewards and are now looking to finish the rest of the paths and lack the resources ( revives and hp pots ) so I think you should consider making that offer a permanent deal which i believe you wouldnt mind since its bought with units, i would love to hear your take on this
No there shouldn't be. Revive farming is being removed because it is too easy to get free revives. If there is a half decent way to get 100+ revives within the week, expect all difficult content in the future to either not exist because the devs don't want to waste their time on it (as they talked about in one of the livestreams in december) or for them all to be as stupid difficult as the 4* Star Lord LoL challenge. By removing the easily accessible revives, we can see more content like Necropolis that don't cost a lot of resources to do with the right team. If you keep easy revives in, then every carina challenge is going to be like the Brian Grant necropolis duck run to compensate for you being able to get easy revives.
Can we please end the "revive spam prevents endgame content development" narrative already? The actual issue is that Kabam doesn't want free revives to cut into their profit margins. If revive spamming truly were an existential threat to the game, Kabam would simply cap the number of revives on endgame quests, much like they do for AQ and AW. I'm not saying that's something the player base wants, but its absence is proof that Kabam doesn't think spamming revives isn't a problem so long as players purchase them with units.
I have seen you post this many times in different places, and I want to clarify something because we have not avoided this and have been clear about it; you can use all the revives you want if you are willing to use your units on them. We have said exactly that.
Units are powerful, and they are meant to be a choice.
When there are limitless revives available without the cost of units, that is specifically when it prevents the development of end-game content. That is when it is no longer worth our time or effort to make this content because players are not choosing to use their Units to progress over using them on other things.
You can farm all of the units you want and use them to buy all the revives in the world, but you're making the choice there for what you do with those units. You have to decide if you want to use them to finish content or to purchase other items.
You have to make the choice, and that is how this game had been for many years before farming started and the way it should be. Content should not be inevitable, and units aren't only for deals.
Content should be inevitable over the infinite horizon, and that’s the one major problem I have with this. A reasonably skilled summoner CANNOT save enough revives to complete necropolis (much less six) because of storage limits.
I suppose if someone maximized their L1 and L2 revives at the same time, they could get about 12-15 more of each in overflow and start their run right before they expired, assuming they committed to doing every daily event and apothecary.
If the 500-unit offer that just left the store was a trial balloon, it was a good one, and I would strongly advocate for it being permanently available. If that is somehow too generous, put a weekly purchase limit on it.
Kabam gets the literal buy-in from players, and players are still working with a specific window to complete content due to the item limits and stash expiration.
Ive got a valiant-level roster. I’ve done two paths. I’ve got units. I want to do more, but carving out a window for extended play isn’t always easy, so I’m ok with that progress being slow.
With that said, I will NEVER trudge through content 40 units at a time, because every time I click that button is a feeling of failure, and it negates any payoff at the end.
If I have a bundle that feels like I’m getting value or a discount, that does not feel like a failure; that feels good. If I’m using the items I’ve purchased in advance for the purpose of clearing that content, that does not feel like failure; that feels like a plan put into action.
Do I need therapy? Probably. But I hope that articulated the need for Kabam to be creative to get summoners to do content. Because I don’t mind waiting til 8.4 to be valiant, and I know it won’t cost units, but I want Kabam to incentivize me to try and incentivize me to plan these runs. The short term rewards for paths 2, 3, 4 and 5 on necropolis are practically nothing. The optimal payouts are for one path or six.
Apothecary ,Catalyst Vault, ISO 8 Fields and Proving Grounds quests to get refills are only ok. But it must be improved. Funny that Expert level, the bosses are below 4k PI. Same for all others
So, Kabam may do a new one with better rewards and tough bosses maybe.
We need Iso too ,after Banquet and pulled a lot of new champs.
Second, I am not sure I understand why units are a necessary intermediary that players must use. I think we agree that, whether a person is grinding for units or revives, they both represent the same thing: time spent playing the game.
We don't agree. The unit grinding economy is very strictly regulated and managed. You can't autofight in the arena, for example. You can in normal content, including Act content. The revive farms were not special revive maps that could be engineered for farming. They were the normal content in the game that happened to contain excessive amounts of revives. That content was subject to normal content management rules, not grindable content like the arena.
We could try to engineer all content that contains revives to just coincidentally happen to work out so that the time spent grinding them happened to coincide with the amount of time it takes to earn the equivalent amount of units to buy the revives, with not only the same amount of time but also the same amount of actual effort. But that would be pointless. That's a lot of effort to put players back to where they are now. In fact, when you can earn a certain amount of revives or a certain amount of units equal to the cost of those revives with identical amounts of effort and time, it is *always* better to go for the units, because the units are intrinsically more useful, as you can either buy the revives or save them for something else. Revives do not have that flexibility.
Usually I agree with your reasoning but in this case perhaps it is not considered that to obtain revives and units you have to play two different contents of the game. In one case you have to use energy and accept that nothing can be found, the time to dedicate to the game in this case is minimal but it is there (and as a note not all of the grindable can be autoplayed) For the units you have to play arena and the units are "guaranteed", the time to dedicate to them is greater. if the chance of finding revive drops drastically or becomes equal to 0, I would like to have a different content of the game to be able to find revive or units because I don't like to do arenas.
it would be at least appreciable to be able to spend the other "currencies" to buy revive or potions we have 9 "coins" in the game. initially they could be obtained with specific contents, now they are overlapping and there should be more flexibility between the stores. my suggestion: - being able to purchase revives and/or potions also with other currencies; - being able to sign up for a separate subscription (or expand the current sigil) to have at last double the inventory;
in other words, in my opinion we need to be able to have the opportunity to make certain contents. If the answer is always that with time, by expanding the roster, it will be possible to do them, we will find that some contents will be useless to do, as are currently the back issues, labyrinth, ROL, even abyss is now obsolate, not to mention Carina. Content like this is different than others. If you don't have the chance to do them within a few weeks or a few months, then the game progresses to the point that those rewards become outdated and no longer worth the expense.
Kabam are such greedy D bags for this, they did this solely to make more money. Which is so messed up because they care so little about the player base especially because the apothecary is a JOKE & offers such low level health and revives. It is such BS.
The nerf has nothing to do with end game content or the players, it has everything to do with Kabam 1. Making us play areas which are dead, for units to buy bundles or 2. Spend money to get revives that are actually useful and desired like literally anything over a 20% & then health potions.
The nerf has nothing to do with end game content or the players, it has everything to do with Kabam 1. Making us play areas which are dead, for units to buy bundles or 2. Spend money to get revives that are actually useful and desired like literally anything over a 20% & then health potions.
Comments
You either need to spend a bit or quit, what do you want me to say?
I'd be ok with the farms staying, as long as total revives in inventory are hard capped at whatever the monthly availability is via Apoth and 22hr events.
Meaning, you can farm your months worth in a day, or do the boring every day thing but the net amount is the same.
Go find an act 6 path thats farmable or start doing some arena. The easy farms are gone and they're not coming back so we all need to adapt our play to the situation instead of complaining.
You have people saying 22 hr events are for people with no life, or using the excuse of having a life...
365 days in a year, 8760 hours, 398ish 22hr events with 25 units each daily 9954 units a year +/- what people grind in Arenas... If you tell me that is not enough to enjoy the game for free...
I suppose if someone maximized their L1 and L2 revives at the same time, they could get about 12-15 more of each in overflow and start their run right before they expired, assuming they committed to doing every daily event and apothecary.
If the 500-unit offer that just left the store was a trial balloon, it was a good one, and I would strongly advocate for it being permanently available. If that is somehow too generous, put a weekly purchase limit on it.
Kabam gets the literal buy-in from players, and players are still working with a specific window to complete content due to the item limits and stash expiration.
Ive got a valiant-level roster. I’ve done two paths. I’ve got units. I want to do more, but carving out a window for extended play isn’t always easy, so I’m ok with that progress being slow.
With that said, I will NEVER trudge through content 40 units at a time, because every time I click that button is a feeling of failure, and it negates any payoff at the end.
If I have a bundle that feels like I’m getting value or a discount, that does not feel like a failure; that feels good. If I’m using the items I’ve purchased in advance for the purpose of clearing that content, that does not feel like failure; that feels like a plan put into action.
Do I need therapy? Probably. But I hope that articulated the need for Kabam to be creative to get summoners to do content. Because I don’t mind waiting til 8.4 to be valiant, and I know it won’t cost units, but I want Kabam to incentivize me to try and incentivize me to plan these runs. The short term rewards for paths 2, 3, 4 and 5 on necropolis are practically nothing. The optimal payouts are for one path or six.
Apothecary ,Catalyst Vault, ISO 8 Fields and Proving Grounds quests to get refills are only ok.
But it must be improved.
Funny that Expert level, the bosses are below 4k PI.
Same for all others
So, Kabam may do a new one with better rewards and tough bosses maybe.
We need Iso too ,after Banquet and pulled a lot of new champs.
In one case you have to use energy and accept that nothing can be found, the time to dedicate to the game in this case is minimal but it is there (and as a note not all of the grindable can be autoplayed)
For the units you have to play arena and the units are "guaranteed", the time to dedicate to them is greater. if the chance of finding revive drops drastically or becomes equal to 0, I would like to have a different content of the game to be able to find revive or units because I don't like to do arenas.
it would be at least appreciable to be able to spend the other "currencies" to buy revive or potions
we have 9 "coins" in the game. initially they could be obtained with specific contents, now they are overlapping and there should be more flexibility between the stores.
my suggestion:
- being able to purchase revives and/or potions also with other currencies;
- being able to sign up for a separate subscription (or expand the current sigil) to have at last double the inventory;
in other words, in my opinion we need to be able to have the opportunity to make certain contents. If the answer is always that with time, by expanding the roster, it will be possible to do them, we will find that some contents will be useless to do, as are currently the back issues, labyrinth, ROL, even abyss is now obsolate, not to mention Carina.
Content like this is different than others. If you don't have the chance to do them within a few weeks or a few months, then the game progresses to the point that those rewards become outdated and no longer worth the expense.