Carina Challenge Compromise

Feel like this issue hasn’t garnered enough recognition from the team. As we all know it has really divided the playerbase, especially with its bad timing of being introduced following one of the worst fights we’ve seen in woe Abs.

There’s been several valid points made across many different threads, So I don’t really think its necessary to regurgitate them all.

One thing thats worth mentioning is that when the EOP and Gauntlet originally launched, even though it was only r3 that was accessible at the time, the revive farm and energy farm was still out, so that reasoning cant really be applied (Karate Mike tried using that in a lot of his comments responding to feedback).

Also obviously the lack of resources to rank all the champs and signature stones for Avengers/Zemo challenges. Plus if you dont have a 7* mojo for the worst challenge (Pepe used 16 revives for warlock alone with 6* mojo)

All in all, given the restrictive nature and materials needed for these events, I think the event could have been better thought out before released.

With WoE lasting all year, and having to prioritize that, the argument that the Carinas are permanent challenge so they can just be put aside is just not as valid. If the Carinas were actually released BEFORE woe, that would have been a different story as we could actually focus our resources on that. But we saw how rough the first Woe fight was, and thats lasting all year long. Not to mention how rough the finales would be.

Anyway, I think its not too late to amend the challenges and restore faith in the community as a lot of players were under false hope that they could get the rewards without the difficulty being aimed for the top 500 players of the entire playerbase. That level of difficulty wasnt really communicated.

One possible way of compromise that I saw suggested by someone was to have 1 selector locked behind completion of half of the objectives and the 2nd one behind the full exploration.

And before you say no, we weren’t really communicated there would be 2 selectors either. And making it so 1 selector behind half of the objectives wouldnt really be game breaking as those champs really want the dupe either way...

Anyways if you don’t agree, then comment down what you think a potential compromise could be

Comments

A_Fungi

Why do you need a 7*?
well Obiviously everyone of us is hesitant to rank up a champ who is in 7* pool.

Yep... sitting here waiting to see if I pull a 7 star ironman or antman before taking them up. Doing the others first.

A_Fungi

Why do you need a 7*?
well Obiviously everyone of us is hesitant to rank up a champ who is in 7* pool.
You can take a 6* Champ up for the challenge and Sig them much easier. With enough patience you can even Ascend them.

Ascending a champ for this challenge would be very short sighted and a poor use of resources

Karatemike415

GroundedWisdom

Why do you need a 7*?
well Obiviously everyone of us is hesitant to rank up a champ who is in 7* pool.
You can take a 6* Champ up for the challenge and Sig them much easier. With enough patience you can even Ascend them.
Ascending a champ for this challenge would be very short sighted and a poor use of resources

This is the problem I'm highlighting. The purpose of Resources is for whatever you need or want them for. I understand being cautious and prudent, but there's also such thing as being closed-minded in our choices. The game isn't always going to accommodate our refusal to use Mats on Champs we call "trash".

Karatemike415

A solo is a solo isn't it though? The manner in which it is solo'd shouldn't matter. Use cheese, milk whatever ...a solo is a solo so why did it matter?

Let me scale back on the "no thought" thing. I think that's being taken too literally 😂. Obviously there was thought put into it ... what I mean is that it isn't creative at all. To me.

The Avengers thing .. I mean it was cool ... there was something there but leaving Hulk off to stop a solo doesn't make any sense. You missed an opportunity for a lot of "stongest Avenger" community talk etc. It's just not creative to me. But again, that's just my puny opinion mate lol

I appreciate the responses nonetheless Karate Mike. You've always been one of the few creators who I thought was just a genuine dude loving the game. But still ... to ME ... none of those challenges were creative or fun. And the community agrees.

Not every opinion or response especially in disagreement has to be villain vs hero. We're adults (I'm assuming) ... it's just conversation in the end ... at least to me.

I just don't see how you could possibly conclude that a team of 5 under-appreciated Champs synergizing together like puzzle pieces in a way that allows them to solo 21 difficult fights, which nobody thought to be possible, isn't "creative" - only because Hulk doesn't get to cheese the entire thing.

Frankly, putting Hulk in the challenge would show a lack of creativity.
But, I guess I can't change your mind there.

And I will say again, everyone I've talked to who has tried it has told me they've had a lot of fun 🤷🏻‍♀️
Even if they didn't expect to. As a community, we seem very quick to judge everything before giving it the old college try, which honestly is a bit disappointing.

Regardless, we are adults here, and the forums are in fact for conversing with one another 🤙🏻

Deacon

Why do you need a 7*?

lol right. I mean I get it .. to make it easier but still.

I think where we're headed unfortunately is content being made difficult just for the sake of being difficult. I know a lot is made of the "end game" users dying for difficult content because the game is too easy but that's just not true. They'll complete whatever content there is within a day anyway. And none of it will be truly difficult to that group of players anyway.

It shouldn't be just about making difficult content but rather making difficult content fun and engaging as well. The Abs Man fight for instance .. it's not fun. It's not engaging. It's just a bunch of things thrown together to be difficult. And that's not what the community wants.

Necropolis was the pinnacle of how to achieve this in my opinion. It's not difficult at all to the end gamers. But for the community at large it was difficult yet fun and engaging especially with the Road to Necropolis thrown in. And somehow, in just a short time .. all that momentum is gone.

A_Fungi

Why do you need a 7*?
well Obiviously everyone of us is hesitant to rank up a champ who is in 7* pool.
You can take a 6* Champ up for the challenge and Sig them much easier. With enough patience you can even Ascend them.
Ascending a champ for this challenge would be very short sighted and a poor use of resources
This is the problem I'm highlighting. The purpose of Resources is for whatever you need or want them for. I understand being cautious and prudent, but there's also such thing as being closed-minded in our choices. The game isn't always going to accommodate our refusal to use Mats on Champs we call "trash".

Oh, I am using loads of materials to rank the champs up. I actually think most of the avengers team is pretty good and could potentially come in handy in BGs.

But ascension dust is very scarce. I'll throw on some boosts and use a couple extra revives instead. Less permanent decision.

IKON

The rewards are 95% champion acquisition, with only a 1-2 generic gem in there for rank up materials. This essentially means anyone who passes on these challenges isn't really losing much of anything.

You should be very happy these challenges do not include T4A or even an R3 gem, and as long as this is the model, make the challenges as hard as you want imo.

ItsClobberinTime

I think what most people mean, and specifically for me, when I say there was no thought put into them .. what I mean is that nothing about those two challenges had any element of fun in them. So you make an Avengers challenge that "could" have been fun but you take out one of the original Avengers (Hulk) .. why??? To make it challenging? No, not really because what has been said is "these are all soloable fights" ... so then why not leave Hulk in anyway if these fights could just so simply be solo'd ???

The answer is there just wasn't any real thought put into it. It's not an Avenger's challenge without Hulk. It's just a "well let me invoke the community rage" decision. Fin already said this. "I knew the community would rage" .. then why do it?

Using someone's freshly ranked R3 Hulk or freshly pulled Hulk to completely cheese it would have been really fun for a lot of people. And he isn't going to walk through the content anyway even at R3. But I suspect the personal reasons got the better of things in the end.

When you're making content for a community you think of the community first. Lagacy loves Stark Spidey ... he could have totally created some ridiculous challenge around Stark because a lot of content just isn't ideal for Stark Spidey but he chose not to.

Who cares if the challenge got cheesed ... there are very skilled players (especially in the target group that everyone keeps saying this is intended for) ... so whatever content comes, someone will cheese it. So leaving the "strongest Avenger" off the team was unnecessary. Your "target players" are going to make quick work of this content regardless. So ... the thought was I want to make it super difficult instead? No .. because it isn't super difficult still. It's just content created to rage the community so it seems.

Tigra and Jabari ... really? Everyone called this even before the content came out so that itself tells you how much thought went into it. None. I could pick two champs I enjoy and hate (Mysterio, DDHK) and say "Finish EOP" to check off whatever ultra, mega difficulty there had to be. But that wouldn't be fun at all ... doable sure .. but not fun.

What this combination of champs did was well ... you've seen the backlash. It just isn't fun .. for most. A game like this is in a tough spot for sure. But first and foremost any and all content has to be considered for the community at large despite any uproar from any target group. It's a fast track to the end when you specifically try to exclude a large group of people and you say to them .. this isn't for you. That's no bueno and community 101.

Tough to do for sure but the intent should always be for the community as a whole in whatever way that can be achieved. Hard, difficult content absolutely CAN be inclusive as opposed to how exclusive some of these pieces of content have been lately.

And this is all from a player who is in the target group of this "end game" content. But I just don't find them fun to do ... well to be honest one of them ... the Zemo run could be super fun because I love Zemo lol. I wouldn't have chosen Zemo just because of all the ridiculous Zemo gate stuff. All that fight did was continue the community sentiment of shenanigans going on around content creators and information.

But I mean listen ... we all can choose to do whatever. I'm just giving my advice and my thoughts and own opinions. It's nothing personal. I have (and will continue) to watch Karate Mike, Lagacy, KT1, Vega .. all my usual content creators on YouTube .. they've gotten me through a LOT of content in the game.
I disagree. These all obviously had an insane amount of thought invested into them (if you played them, you'd understand), but it is in the execution and the state of the game surrounding these challenges that makes these all so awful.

This, exactly my thoughts. A lot of thought went into these challenges, and you can tell. The only problem is they decided to make them straight up bs instead of making them challenging but fun, which was imo a terrible idea after seeing how pissed off the community was with that WoW Abs Man.
That is the main reason I am concerned about the future state of the game personally cause if this is the direction they're going in then I'll be stuck doing EQ SQ and story content the rest of the year with no interesting events or challenges. I absolutely hate challenging content that's full of bs, there's a reason Act 6 has been nerfed so many times and nobody enjoys Abyss, this needs to stop.

Demonzfyre

A solo is a solo isn't it though? The manner in which it is solo'd shouldn't matter. Use cheese, milk whatever ...a solo is a solo so why did it matter?

Let me scale back on the "no thought" thing. I think that's being taken too literally 😂. Obviously there was thought put into it ... what I mean is that it isn't creative at all. To me.

The Avengers thing .. I mean it was cool ... there was something there but leaving Hulk off to stop a solo doesn't make any sense. You missed an opportunity for a lot of "stongest Avenger" community talk etc. It's just not creative to me. But again, that's just my puny opinion mate lol

I appreciate the responses nonetheless Karate Mike. You've always been one of the few creators who I thought was just a genuine dude loving the game. But still ... to ME ... none of those challenges were creative or fun. And the community agrees.

Not every opinion or response especially in disagreement has to be villain vs hero. We're adults (I'm assuming) ... it's just conversation in the end ... at least to me.

Can I ask how using Hulk to stun lock everyone would be creative?

Polygon

Why do you need a 7*?

Its not just what rogers said, go look at Pepes livestream, hes a skilled player , the first one to do Necro, places high in BGs but look how much of a disaster his Mojo run went with the 6*. That challenge has some of the worst fights possible. You are not going to bother until you get the 7* unless your made of units/money that you can dispose of

ahmynuts

A solo is a solo isn't it though? The manner in which it is solo'd shouldn't matter. Use cheese, milk whatever ...a solo is a solo so why did it matter?

Let me scale back on the "no thought" thing. I think that's being taken too literally 😂. Obviously there was thought put into it ... what I mean is that it isn't creative at all. To me.

The Avengers thing .. I mean it was cool ... there was something there but leaving Hulk off to stop a solo doesn't make any sense. You missed an opportunity for a lot of "stongest Avenger" community talk etc. It's just not creative to me. But again, that's just my puny opinion mate lol

I appreciate the responses nonetheless Karate Mike. You've always been one of the few creators who I thought was just a genuine dude loving the game. But still ... to ME ... none of those challenges were creative or fun. And the community agrees.

Not every opinion or response especially in disagreement has to be villain vs hero. We're adults (I'm assuming) ... it's just conversation in the end ... at least to me.

only because Hulk doesn't get to cheese the entire thing.

Frankly, putting Hulk in the challenge would show a lack of creativity.
But, I guess I can't change your mind there.

This i would chalk up to "The Hercules Effect" where many are so used to unga bunga smashing things that using their brain is not possible for content

MikeHancho31

Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.

ahmynuts

Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.

Say goodbye to probably at least 5 of your favorite champs

Bugmat78

I do think some of the cots to do this challenge were only looked at from the top 1% angle ie where even carrying a champ to r5 you won't use outside the challenge, arena or for personal challenges is negligible due to the rewards received weekly from AQ, AW and maybe BGs.

It's why the lack of inclusion of rank-up materials (even if just specific to the gate champs) was a bitoff-putting.

MikeHancho31

Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
Say goodbye to probably at least 5 of your favorite champs

Don't care

GroundedWisdom

Why do you need a 7*?
well Obiviously everyone of us is hesitant to rank up a champ who is in 7* pool.
You can take a 6* Champ up for the challenge and Sig them much easier. With enough patience you can even Ascend them.
Ascending a champ for this challenge would be very short sighted and a poor use of resources
This is the problem I'm highlighting. The purpose of Resources is for whatever you need or want them for. I understand being cautious and prudent, but there's also such thing as being closed-minded in our choices. The game isn't always going to accommodate our refusal to use Mats on Champs we call "trash".
Oh, I am using loads of materials to rank the champs up. I actually think most of the avengers team is pretty good and could potentially come in handy in BGs.

But ascension dust is very scarce. I'll throw on some boosts and use a couple extra revives instead. Less permanent decision.

I suppose. It was scarce. I've seen more than I expected. I even used some on my Dani. No regrets.

Demonzfyre

Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.

But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.

Deacon

A solo is a solo isn't it though? The manner in which it is solo'd shouldn't matter. Use cheese, milk whatever ...a solo is a solo so why did it matter?

Let me scale back on the "no thought" thing. I think that's being taken too literally 😂. Obviously there was thought put into it ... what I mean is that it isn't creative at all. To me.

The Avengers thing .. I mean it was cool ... there was something there but leaving Hulk off to stop a solo doesn't make any sense. You missed an opportunity for a lot of "stongest Avenger" community talk etc. It's just not creative to me. But again, that's just my puny opinion mate lol

I appreciate the responses nonetheless Karate Mike. You've always been one of the few creators who I thought was just a genuine dude loving the game. But still ... to ME ... none of those challenges were creative or fun. And the community agrees.

Not every opinion or response especially in disagreement has to be villain vs hero. We're adults (I'm assuming) ... it's just conversation in the end ... at least to me.

I just don't see how you could possibly conclude that a team of 5 under-appreciated Champs synergizing together like puzzle pieces in a way that allows them to solo 21 difficult fights, which nobody thought to be possible, isn't "creative" - only because Hulk doesn't get to cheese the entire thing.

Frankly, putting Hulk in the challenge would show a lack of creativity.
But, I guess I can't change your mind there.

And I will say again, everyone I've talked to who has tried it has told me they've had a lot of fun 🤷🏻‍♀️
Even if they didn't expect to. As a community, we seem very quick to judge everything before giving it the old college try, which honestly is a bit disappointing.

Regardless, we are adults here, and the forums are in fact for conversing with one another 🤙🏻

I see your point. But it's that itself that doesn't speak to creativity to me but rather "let me just do something that will be difficult". I can raise you an Inhuman team and accomplish the same. But truth be told .. I'm kinda weird. I don't like what most people like .. been that way since elementary school 😂. Don't like the Broncos but love the Cowboys ... yeah I'm weird lol

So you have my permission to take all of this with that particular grain of salt.

For the record .. I don't think you have anything ... absolutely nothing to hold your head low about or regret ... and the personal things that I'm sure have come your way have been incredibly atrocious and unwarranted. Your contributions to the community man speak for themselves ... and I for one am glad you do what you do.

But still .. I don't think your challenge is fun 😂

ItsClobberinTime

Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.

I don't think anyone is actually asking for something as ridiculous as that, we just want fun challenging content 🙂

Wicket329

Why do you need a 7*?
well Obiviously everyone of us is hesitant to rank up a champ who is in 7* pool.

A 6* r5 sig 200 Mojo, when ramped, has an attack value of 12,012. This is not ascended (because I don’t think Auntm.ai has ascension information).

A 7* r2 sig 20 Mojo, when ramped, has an attack value of 10,456. It isn’t until sig 80 that the 7* r2 passes the 6* in terms of attack value.

The 7*’s real advantage comes from the healthpool, having an additional 12k health at r2 as compared to the r5 6*. This is a lot, but is only really relevant if you’re planning on healing to full on every revive, which I think would be prohibitively expensive for most fights. I think I would do it for those fights which have unavoidable damage interactions, but skip it otherwise and just ride with 40% health since Mojo has some pretty decent regen on prompt completion.

Finally, while stat focus is obviously a huge benefit in most cases, the bulk of Mojo’s damage comes from his degeneration, which does not scale with any stat focus option. As such, I don’t know that stat focus is necessarily as big of a deal for him specifically as it is for other champs.

Anyway, this isn’t meant to necessarily convince anybody on one option being better than the other, it’s just a write up so you have all the information. Personally, I took my 6* Mojo to r5 about two days before he was announced to be coming to the game as a 7*, and I haven’t been lucky enough to pull him yet. I might be lying to myself to make myself feel better, but I think that since he’s good on both offense and defense, when I pull him I could stick the 7* on war defense and keep the 6* as an attacker.

Hope this helps with preparations!

MikeHancho31

Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.

Especially the community. The devs can get ideas from what people discuss, but people who play as a job shouldn't have any say. That goes for any game.

Demonzfyre

Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
I don't think anyone is actually asking for something as ridiculous as that, we just want fun challenging content 🙂

But what is fun and challenging. I've asked people this dozens of times and no answer has really been given. I mean people want to use Hulk for the Avengers challenge. Is it really that different than my "suggestion"?

What's fun and challenging to you, isn't necessarily fun and challenging to someone else and that's the real issue that Kabam faces every time they try and release content.

If it's too "difficult" then they released it because they nerfed revive farming and must be low on sales. If it's too easy then it's because they've run out of ideas and the game must be coming to an end soon.

So what is fun and challenging to you?

Demonzfyre

Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
Especially the community. The devs can get ideas from what people discuss, but people who play as a job shouldn't have any say. That goes for any game.

Oof. No my guy. Just no.

MikeHancho31

Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
Especially the community. The devs can get ideas from what people discuss, but people who play as a job shouldn't have any say. That goes for any game.
Oof. No my guy. Just no.

Yes

Demonzfyre

Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
Especially the community. The devs can get ideas from what people discuss, but people who play as a job shouldn't have any say. That goes for any game.
Oof. No my guy. Just no.
Yes

Go ahead, what's your idea for a Carinas challenge?

Ashacekar

@Fintech I also want to know, Don't you know mojo has unavoidable regen by completing his prompts, and warlock might degen mojo despite turning willpower off? Have you thought about it when designing the challenge?
Finn and Mike's challenges are more like do this complete event with this champ which don't focus on specific sets of defender but whoever comes on that long path. Offcourse they wouldn't have thought about that since "Ultra difficult content" justifies everything, it has no limits, it could have been even worse. It's tough to think of challenges like Lagacy where the choosen attacker is reasonable and shines throughout complete challenge and in best interest of both Kabam and Community.
I really have to say, I find it absolutely hysterical at this point how everyone who has actually done mine ends up saying “I can’t believe how every fight has a perfect counter, it all looks so much worse on paper - definitely had a knee jerk reaction.”

And those who haven’t done it say this.

Implying that “no thought went into them” is genuinely mind boggling to read.
Those who are doing it are few anyways and if they did it, it means they had the champs in the best shape, the revives, the time to do it all, they would have obviously found it fun so they did it in first place. You will see streams from msd, Nagase, Pepe etc. You may not see a guide by MCoC Noob for a generic mass.

But you have done your job, any interpretation on ultimate challenge is right. Zemo and Avengers ones are good enough and fun if you have rankups on the specific champs and want to go all out on revives wherever applicable.

Didn't phrase it well I think. So as Miike told those who did it liked it so i m saying they are few. The top players are mostly doing it because they can and won't have issues. It's not unlikely they wouldn't find it fun. Basically ignoring feedback from masses and focusing only on top few who played it just not enough sampling. So just mean if you are that top player and have the resources, it will feel fun for you.

@Fintech I also want to know, Don't you know mojo has unavoidable regen by completing his prompts, and warlock might degen mojo despite turning willpower off? Have you thought about it when designing the challenge?
Finn and Mike's challenges are more like do this complete event with this champ which don't focus on specific sets of defender but whoever comes on that long path. Offcourse they wouldn't have thought about that since "Ultra difficult content" justifies everything, it has no limits, it could have been even worse. It's tough to think of challenges like Lagacy where the choosen attacker is reasonable and shines throughout complete challenge and in best interest of both Kabam and Community.
I really have to say, I find it absolutely hysterical at this point how everyone who has actually done mine ends up saying “I can’t believe how every fight has a perfect counter, it all looks so much worse on paper - definitely had a knee jerk reaction.”

And those who haven’t done it say this.

Implying that “no thought went into them” is genuinely mind boggling to read.
Those who are doing it are few anyways and if they did it, it means they had the champs in the best shape, the revives, the time to do it all, they would have obviously found it fun so they did it in first place. You will see streams from msd, Nagase, Pepe etc. You may not see a guide by MCoC Noob for a generic mass.

But you have done your job, any interpretation on ultimate challenge is right. Zemo and Avengers ones are good enough and fun if you have rankups on the specific champs and want to go all out on revives wherever applicable.
This response is called "moving the goal posts".

Goal post is same, Goalkeeper tricked you to miss the shot.

MikeHancho31

Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
Especially the community. The devs can get ideas from what people discuss, but people who play as a job shouldn't have any say. That goes for any game.
Oof. No my guy. Just no.
Yes
Go ahead, what's your idea for a Carinas challenge?

That's the problem right there. You all think the people who made the game can't come up with anything. Streamer and Content creators always make a game worse when their ideas are implemented in a game.

H3t3r

Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
I don't think anyone is actually asking for something as ridiculous as that, we just want fun challenging content 🙂

These ccp challenges are fun and challenging wdym 🙂

Demonzfyre

Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
Especially the community. The devs can get ideas from what people discuss, but people who play as a job shouldn't have any say. That goes for any game.
Oof. No my guy. Just no.
Yes
Go ahead, what's your idea for a Carinas challenge?
That's the problem right there. You all think the people who made the game can't come up with anything. Streamer and Content creators always make a game worse when their ideas are implemented in a game.

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