Serious question for legit, 5-star Winter Soldier players: R3 worthy?

ESFESF Posts: 1,523 ★★★★★
edited January 2018 in General Discussion
Please, serious responses only. If you don't own the character and/or do not play the character, please, just pass this one by. I really would like some serious feedback on this one.

So, here's the deal: My 5-star roster is 70 percent trash, 30 percent decent. I have one character -- OG Spider-Man -- who I can justify taking to R3 with not too many reservations. The only other character who I would even consider is my Guillotine.

Everything else is pretty much trash. I'm just one of those unlucky people.

So, this is a legit question: Ever since the 12.0 upgrade, I am a stone-cold killer with Winter Soldier. I just am. He's just one of those characters whose movesets and abilities I get.

If you have him at R3, does he hit hard enough at that rank to be sustainable in not necessarily every piece of endgame content, but if you took him, he's not absolute trash if you're good at playing him?

I'm not a noob; I have extensive experience with the game. I understand exactly what I am asking. Please, I do not need any feedback explaining to me what he can't do. I already know what he can't do.

Again, my question is very precise: If you have Winter Soldier at R3/45, is he sustainable, damage-wise, in some moderate endgame content? As in, do the Bleeds/Incinerate scale up to any helpful degree? How hard is he hitting with Fury active?

Can he help toward the end of 5.1 and even a bit of 5.2?

Thanks, in advance, to anyone who might be able to help.
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Comments

  • ESFESF Posts: 1,523 ★★★★★
    MCB05 wrote: »
    Is he duped ? I have winter soldier at rank 4 dupes twice and man he is a solid champ. Not a lot of frills but hits hard with fury and good sig his power drain is very reliable. I’m a fan for sure.

    Hey! Thanks for the response.

    Mine is not duped...but I do have a Skill Awakening Gem. I am extremely lukewarm on using it for the character -- I have held on to this thing for more than a year now -- but I also have to acknowledge that at some point, I need to move forward with what I have.

    The power drain...obviously, we both know how often it procs. I run a Mastery setup with maximum Crit rating. You think I'd get enough out of the power drain to justify it, then?

    Again: I understand it's your opinion. I just don't get enough breaks in the game to justify waiting for a dupe that may never come, but if it's an absolute waste, in your opinion, to use the gem, I wouldn't.

  • ESFESF Posts: 1,523 ★★★★★
    @MCB05 : And again, thanks very much for the response.
  • CuteshelfCuteshelf Posts: 747 ★★★
    If he’s duped he’s great!

    He’s a bit of an alrounder. Good damage, good health pool, good block prof, has debuffs but doesn’t rely on them 100%.

    The power drain is incredibly handy, although a little too unpredictable. It procs often enough to really useful.

    I R4d my 5* and have no regrets. Gotten me through a lot of tough content.
  • ESFESF Posts: 1,523 ★★★★★
    Cuteshelf wrote: »
    If he’s duped he’s great!

    He’s a bit of an alrounder. Good damage, good health pool, good block prof, has debuffs but doesn’t rely on them 100%.

    The power drain is incredibly handy, although a little too unpredictable. It procs often enough to really useful.

    I R4d my 5* and have no regrets. Gotten me through a lot of tough content.

    Thanks so much for your response, as well -- it's really helpful. I could kinda see the potential, but I won't lie that I was/am a little nervous about the resource commitment.

    I will give a long think about the gem -- I have no doubt that the next champ I pull would be GP as soon as I use it -- but again, sometimes you just gotta go with what you have. My luck with pulls is so ridiculously bad with the 5-stars, if I keep waiting for something clearly useful, I'm never gonna get stuff done.

    Again: Thanks for taking the time to comment.

  • ESFESF Posts: 1,523 ★★★★★
    Moises_H wrote: »
    Don’t use your Gem on him. You’ll regret it if you happen to pull a GP or Blade in the near future.
    I’m not saying he is a bad champ, I quite like him duped, it’s just AG’s are so rare.

    Thanks for the feedback -- I do appreciate it. I totally understand where you are coming from.

  • ESFESF Posts: 1,523 ★★★★★
    Sungj wrote: »
    Guillotine will do better for you than winter soldier unduped, she has better damage output in more scenarios and her heal reverse is very good utility against masochism and buffet nodes in 5.2.

    Hey. Thanks for that bit of feedback. I do like the Guillotine, as well, but I am not quite as proficient with the character. Not bad, but for whatever reason, I lose combos with her more frequently than I should. Take a little too much damage.

    That's a "me" thing, not a flaw in anybody else. I wish I was a little better with her because, as you say, the damage is legit.
  • MegaSkater67MegaSkater67 Posts: 1,278 ★★★
    I really like him, currently at 3/45 unduped. Hits hard since he has fury most of the time and all of his ammo types are useful. Really strong damage over time with incendiary or hollow point ammo. Sp3 is usually 800+ damage per tic, can go over 1000 with incinerate as well as a class bonus. Armour piercing ammo is great for anyone like hulk buster, sim, high armour nodes etc. Anything that has armour basically. Definitely taking him to 4/55 when I get the chance, hoping to dupe him too because that power drain can be handy and sp2 generally gets it to proc much more often since it consists of the most hits.
  • ESFESF Posts: 1,523 ★★★★★
    I really like him, currently at 3/45 unduped. Hits hard since he has fury most of the time and all of his ammo types are useful. Really strong damage over time with incendiary or hollow point ammo. Sp3 is usually 800+ damage per tic, can go over 1000 with incinerate as well as a class bonus. Armour piercing ammo is great for anyone like hulk buster, sim, high armour nodes etc. Anything that has armour basically. Definitely taking him to 4/55 when I get the chance, hoping to dupe him too because that power drain can be handy and sp2 generally gets it to proc much more often since it consists of the most hits.

    Thanks for responding -- this is exactly what I needed to hear. If the DOT is legit, plus the Fury procs...OK, then.

    All of the responses, including yours, are truly helpful.

  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 6,778 ★★★★★
    I like WS. I have him at r3. Had him at 4/55 for a little while when we had rank down tickets after 12.0. Having said that, 5* awakening gems are too hard to come by to use one on WS, and I don't think I would take him to R3 unduped.
  • ESFESF Posts: 1,523 ★★★★★
    I like WS. I have him at r3. Had him at 4/55 for a little while when we had rank down tickets after 12.0. Having said that, 5* awakening gems are too hard to come by to use one on WS, and I don't think I would take him to R3 unduped.

    Thanks for the feedback. I'm pretty sure you've had better luck with your 5-star pulls than I have, so I do understand where you're coming from with that. I doubt I'll use the Skill AG on him, but it's moderate consideration. I do need one more 5-star to put into the rotation; it's really him or Guillotine. It's gonna be another 45 days or so before I get close to another 5-star pull. At some point, I just gotta pull the trigger and go -- though, again, I probably won't use the gem.
  • Run477Run477 Posts: 1,350 ★★★
    Trash can
  • mfleurymfleury Posts: 100
    If you are saving for blade, just wait until you open the crystals.

    If not, you could r3 him (but shouldn't awaken). He isn't a bad champion but overall, I think guillotine is a better option.
  • BahamutBahamut Posts: 2,307 ★★★★
    Honestly...? Yeah probably. I think some people used him for LoL
  • Spurgeon14Spurgeon14 Posts: 1,317 ★★★
    edited January 2018
    ESF wrote: »
    Cuteshelf wrote: »
    If he’s duped he’s great!

    He’s a bit of an alrounder. Good damage, good health pool, good block prof, has debuffs but doesn’t rely on them 100%.

    The power drain is incredibly handy, although a little too unpredictable. It procs often enough to really useful.

    I R4d my 5* and have no regrets. Gotten me through a lot of tough content.

    Thanks so much for your response, as well -- it's really helpful. I could kinda see the potential, but I won't lie that I was/am a little nervous about the resource commitment.

    I will give a long think about the gem -- I have no doubt that the next champ I pull would be GP as soon as I use it -- but again, sometimes you just gotta go with what you have. My luck with pulls is so ridiculously bad with the 5-stars, if I keep waiting for something clearly useful, I'm never gonna get stuff done.

    Again: Thanks for taking the time to comment.

    Dude, I hear what you are saying. I have a 5* Hawkeye I was planning to take to R4 because he has the reliable power drain/bleed. I had 3 T4 Skill cats and almost enough for the 4th when what do you know, I pull Gwenpool!! Took her to R3, now I have 2 rank 3 Skill 5* champs...plus I have an awakened Black Panther, but with Gwenpool and Hawkeye, no way I'm taking him up over them! Now I can't wait to get the skill cats needed to take Gwenpool to R4!

    a1ygt9wpz5w2.png


  • ESFESF Posts: 1,523 ★★★★★
    mfleury wrote: »
    If you are saving for blade, just wait until you open the crystals.

    If not, you could r3 him (but shouldn't awaken). He isn't a bad champion but overall, I think guillotine is a better option.
    Bahamut wrote: »
    Honestly...? Yeah probably. I think some people used him for LoL

    Thanks dor the responses, guys. I appreciate you taking the time to do so.

  • ESFESF Posts: 1,523 ★★★★★
    Spurgeo14 wrote: »
    ESF wrote: »
    Cuteshelf wrote: »
    If he’s duped he’s great!

    He’s a bit of an alrounder. Good damage, good health pool, good block prof, has debuffs but doesn’t rely on them 100%.

    The power drain is incredibly handy, although a little too unpredictable. It procs often enough to really useful.

    I R4d my 5* and have no regrets. Gotten me through a lot of tough content.

    Thanks so much for your response, as well -- it's really helpful. I could kinda see the potential, but I won't lie that I was/am a little nervous about the resource commitment.

    I will give a long think about the gem -- I have no doubt that the next champ I pull would be GP as soon as I use it -- but again, sometimes you just gotta go with what you have. My luck with pulls is so ridiculously bad with the 5-stars, if I keep waiting for something clearly useful, I'm never gonna get stuff done.

    Again: Thanks for taking the time to comment.

    Dude, I hear what you are saying. I have a 5* Hawkeye I was planning to take to R4 because he has the reliable power drain/bleed. I had 3 T4 Skill cats and almost enough for the 4th when what do you know, I pull Gwenpool!! Took her to R3, now I have 2 rank 3 Skill 5* champs...plus I have an awakened Black Panther, but with Gwenpool and Hawkeye, no way I'm taking him up over them! Now I can't wait to get the skill cats needed to take Gwenpool to R4!

    a1ygt9wpz5w2.png


    Congratulations, man! Truly useful champion, obviously. Not a hater; glad when people have good luck in the game with their pulls.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,172 Guardian
    ESF wrote: »
    I like WS. I have him at r3. Had him at 4/55 for a little while when we had rank down tickets after 12.0. Having said that, 5* awakening gems are too hard to come by to use one on WS, and I don't think I would take him to R3 unduped.

    Thanks for the feedback. I'm pretty sure you've had better luck with your 5-star pulls than I have, so I do understand where you're coming from with that. I doubt I'll use the Skill AG on him, but it's moderate consideration. I do need one more 5-star to put into the rotation; it's really him or Guillotine. It's gonna be another 45 days or so before I get close to another 5-star pull. At some point, I just gotta pull the trigger and go -- though, again, I probably won't use the gem.

    The time to pull the trigger is when a) you are literally about to use him in something important (arena grinding generally doesn't count) and b) there's nothing in the short term horizon that will make you regret it.

    Often people ask whether to rank up or awaken and when asked what they are going to use the champion for they say something along the lines of just stuff. When you're spending rare resources - rare for you - only spend on something you will immediately use for something important. That way you will be getting something out of it. Even if a better option comes along you will have less regrets, because you can point to the content you finished and the resources you won sooner rather than later. Something better always comes along eventually. What you don't want to have happen is you rank up, awaken, and then leave it on the shelf for a couple weeks while you think about what you're going to do with it, and *then* something better comes along. That's what hurts.
  • ESFESF Posts: 1,523 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    ESF wrote: »
    I like WS. I have him at r3. Had him at 4/55 for a little while when we had rank down tickets after 12.0. Having said that, 5* awakening gems are too hard to come by to use one on WS, and I don't think I would take him to R3 unduped.

    Thanks for the feedback. I'm pretty sure you've had better luck with your 5-star pulls than I have, so I do understand where you're coming from with that. I doubt I'll use the Skill AG on him, but it's moderate consideration. I do need one more 5-star to put into the rotation; it's really him or Guillotine. It's gonna be another 45 days or so before I get close to another 5-star pull. At some point, I just gotta pull the trigger and go -- though, again, I probably won't use the gem.

    The time to pull the trigger is when a) you are literally about to use him in something important (arena grinding generally doesn't count) and b) there's nothing in the short term horizon that will make you regret it.

    Often people ask whether to rank up or awaken and when asked what they are going to use the champion for they say something along the lines of just stuff. When you're spending rare resources - rare for you - only spend on something you will immediately use for something important. That way you will be getting something out of it. Even if a better option comes along you will have less regrets, because you can point to the content you finished and the resources you won sooner rather than later. Something better always comes along eventually. What you don't want to have happen is you rank up, awaken, and then leave it on the shelf for a couple weeks while you think about what you're going to do with it, and *then* something better comes along. That's what hurts.

    Thanks for the thoughtful response; I would expect no less.

    Totally understand your point; that's how I do it. I don't have enough resources to do this stuff haphazardly; it's why I asked.

    As I said, I'd be using him in 5.1 and maybe the earliest stages of 5.2. My roster has good depth in the 4-stars, is trash in the 5-stars. I don't want to spend a ton of units overall, though I realize that I will have to burn some.

    Becoming Uncollected really is an ancillary goal; left unsaid is at some point, all of us are gonna have to make the call on when to stop putting resources into 4-stars.

    I'm getting close to feeling like that, even with a weaker roster of 5-stars. It doesn't mean that I don't think 4-stars have value; of course they do. I just did the Boss Rush with them and a 5-star Ronan. I have a 5/50 Blade and OG Vision. Those characters are clearly useful.

    But at some point, with my resources always limited, I have to start asking myself when it's time to stop allocating resources for 4/40 and 5/50 4-stars. That answer will be different for every person, based on their circumstances.

    Winter Soldier is a decent champion. I am pretty sure he'd put in good work for what I'm looking to do, but yeah. I've been patient, hoping for the no-doubt 5-stars to drop in my lap, but they just haven't. People have used Winter Soldier in LOL...at some point, you gotta go with what you have.

  • geoff78geoff78 Posts: 188
    edited January 2018
    Same boat here as far as mostly trash 5*s. I brought mine to r4. He is duped multiple times, though i wouldn't recommend using an awakening gem on him. I'd save it for someone that'll benefit more from it. His awoken ability is handy, but not game changing. I also r4ed my classic Spidey. He gets consistent AW defense kills and i don't regret either rank ups one bit...

    h4oc5e099c0y.png
  • taojay1taojay1 Posts: 1,062 ★★★
    I know a lot have already said useful stuff already, but I also have 5* 4/55 duped WS. First of all, his damage output is quite nice, especially with fury, but it does not compare to certain other heavy hitting skills like Gwenpool or Blade. Animations are probably the oldest in the game, but easy to intercept with. His bleed damage is surprisingly good, I mostly like to use the sp1 for most fights. Sp2 hits pretty hard but only has one bleed, so I only use it with armor piercing or hollow point. His power drain is really strong, pairs well with the sp2. It's definitely not reliable tho, the most use I have for it is finishing combos that I otherwise would have stopped.
    Overall, is he r3 worthy? Yes, but you might regret once you pull Gwenpool, Blade, Crossbones, etc. Definitely not worth awakening. Solid champ with nice damage
  • ESFESF Posts: 1,523 ★★★★★
    geoff78 wrote: »
    Same boat here as far as mostly trash 5*s. I brought mine to r4. He is duped multiple times, though i wouldn't recommend using an awakening gem on him. I'd save it for someone that'll benefit more from it. His awoken ability is handy, but not game changing. I also r4ed my classic Spidey. He gets consistent AW defense kills and i don't regret either rank ups one bit...

    h4oc5e099c0y.png

    Thanks for sharing that; yeah. Looks like you're dealing with exactly the same kind of stuff I am on the high end.

    But I won't even lie: Man, your Iron Man and Cable are so far past what I'm dealing with -- I have a duped She-Hulk and Groot and HB and Ant-Man...man. It's depressing just looking at what I have. Just trash. It's slowed me down for the better part of a year. I literally just got the OG Spider-Man last month. That's how bad my 5-stars have been
  • ESFESF Posts: 1,523 ★★★★★
    taojay1 wrote: »
    I know a lot have already said useful stuff already, but I also have 5* 4/55 duped WS. First of all, his damage output is quite nice, especially with fury, but it does not compare to certain other heavy hitting skills like Gwenpool or Blade. Animations are probably the oldest in the game, but easy to intercept with. His bleed damage is surprisingly good, I mostly like to use the sp1 for most fights. Sp2 hits pretty hard but only has one bleed, so I only use it with armor piercing or hollow point. His power drain is really strong, pairs well with the sp2. It's definitely not reliable tho, the most use I have for it is finishing combos that I otherwise would have stopped.
    Overall, is he r3 worthy? Yes, but you might regret once you pull Gwenpool, Blade, Crossbones, etc. Definitely not worth awakening. Solid champ with nice damage

    Thanks, man. I do intercept pretty well with him, as you noted, which does matter.

    As I said, I don't have a ton of resources, usually -- just how I play the game. I do agonize over how I'd get a GP or CB up, if I pulled those.

    But truthfully, I just haven't been that kind of lucky, and neither are in the first cut of the new featured crystals. I have zero hope that I'd pull either out of the basics; that just hasn't been my game experience, and I've been around a long, long time.

  • I just had a poll today about taking either Crossbones or Winter Soldier to R4, so if I considered R4 for him you can guess where I stand on R3.

    If awakened he is a really solid champ. Haven’t regretted taking mine to R3 once since i did it months ago. I’m like you I just find him fun to use.

    If you’re looking to do Act 5 I used him quite a bit in 5.2. Him and Mordo were my only 5* R3 champs I used and the rest were R4 4*’s. So I used him quite a bit and he did just fine.
  • ESFESF Posts: 1,523 ★★★★★
    I just had a poll today about taking either Crossbones or Winter Soldier to R4, so if I considered R4 for him you can guess where I stand on R3.

    If awakened he is a really solid champ. Haven’t regretted taking mine to R3 once since i did it months ago. I’m like you I just find him fun to use.

    If you’re looking to do Act 5 I used him quite a bit in 5.2. Him and Mordo were my only 5* R3 champs I used and the rest were R4 4*’s. So I used him quite a bit and he did just fine.

    Excellent feedback, man -- thanks for that. Hearing that you actually used an R3 in 5.2 is really useful. I do have a couple of 4* 5/50s that will definitely be useful, but obviously, you know exactly what I'd be dealing with at that level of content with the character, so thanks very much for responding. Really glad to know that he can help in that regard.

  • BobomanBoboman Posts: 716 ★★
    This what i wish to see all over the forums such great feedback
  • I have had mine at r4 for over a year. He really comes through a pinch. Of cpurse it depends on your options, but on a scale of 1-10, I would give him an 8. I've had a couple opportunities to rank him down and never have. If you don't have a blade or something, go for it. You will want to boost his sig rating as much as possible though
  • gohard123gohard123 Posts: 899 ★★★
    ESF wrote: »
    MCB05 wrote: »
    Is he duped ? I have winter soldier at rank 4 dupes twice and man he is a solid champ. Not a lot of frills but hits hard with fury and good sig his power drain is very reliable. I’m a fan for sure.

    Hey! Thanks for the response.

    Mine is not duped...but I do have a Skill Awakening Gem. I am extremely lukewarm on using it for the character -- I have held on to this thing for more than a year now -- but I also have to acknowledge that at some point, I need to move forward with what I have.

    The power drain...obviously, we both know how often it procs. I run a Mastery setup with maximum Crit rating. You think I'd get enough out of the power drain to justify it, then?

    Again: I understand it's your opinion. I just don't get enough breaks in the game to justify waiting for a dupe that may never come, but if it's an absolute waste, in your opinion, to use the gem, I wouldn't.

    Please do not use a skill gem on WS
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