Let's Have a Conversation About Buying Discounted Units

Hulk_77Hulk_77 Posts: 782 ★★★
First, let's keep this conversation within the bounds of the forum rules. That means no mentioning anyone or any alliance specifically. I believe this topic really needs to be discussed between the community and the moderators and managers of the game.

Lately I am hearing a lot about the buying and selling of "discounted units" externally from the game. My understanding of what this is (which may be incorrect) is that a player will pay a "unit loader" outside of the game and give them their login credentials. The loader will then log in as the player and use illegally gained SIM card information from other people to make small purchases 1 at a time on that account until they have fulfilled the unit request, then had the account back to the player. These "loaders" apparently reside in countries where they can make unit purchases via SIM cards instead of Google Play or Apple's app store like the majority of us do. [If my understanding of how this is happening is incorrect, please feel free to enlighten me].

I find this very concerning. First and foremost, this is essentially credit card fraud, except with SIM cards. This is illegal pretty much everywhere, not to mention unethical and just plain wrong. Innocent folks have had their hard earned money taken from them by thieves.

Due to the majority of these transactions crossing international boundaries, it may be difficult for various law enforcement agencies to catch the criminals involved in this theft. I want to know if Kabam has reached out to any law enforcement about this and if they plan on doing so? I highly encourage you to do so.

Secondly, I am hearing that players who were caught doing this received only a 7 day ban. I have no idea if that is true or not, but it is all the talk on Reddit and Line this week. If this is true, I am very dismayed. If it is not true, I invite Kabam to use this opportunity to state their policy on discounted units and elaborate on how such activity will impact their game account. I would suggest nothing short of lifetime bans and turning over of evidence to local police jurisdictions. [Again, we should not be specific about which players or alliances may or may not have partaken in this]

I fear that if this is not addressed swiftly and directly, more and more players will utilize these services, which would result in more theft from innocents and throw the competitive balance of this contest out of whack. Beyond that, this game could quickly find itself in a money laundering situation as people load and sell accounts. I think that outcome could be the worst of all because I'm sure eventually the entire game would have to be shuttered if that happened.

Instead of having this thread devolve into a jumbled mess like so many do, let's keep it on topic. What can Kabam do to ensure this sort of illegal activity stays out of the game and to help bring the existing criminals to justice? What can the player base do? Are people okay playing alongside people who are stealing their units from other people? I am not.

Thank You.
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Comments

  • KhanMedinaKhanMedina Posts: 927 ★★★
    Thread closed in 5, 4, 3,...
  • nameplasnameplas Posts: 239 ★★
    I'm actually surprised this stayed this long. I saw a thread literally disappear (not even being closed) right after a minute. They should be banned permanently, buying cheap units is wrong and kabam is giving them another chance which is wrong as well. That's like letting everyone assume we can violate TOS for once, then get back after a week.
  • KhanMedinaKhanMedina Posts: 927 ★★★
    nameplas wrote: »
    I'm actually surprised this stayed this long. I saw a thread literally disappear (not even being closed) right after a minute. They should be banned permanently, buying cheap units is wrong and kabam is giving them another chance which is wrong as well. That's like letting everyone assume we can violate TOS for once, then get back after a week.

    Was it the one I posted about going on vacation for a week so I might as well buy 3rd party units? I got a warning for that one, but they know exactly where I was going with that comment. Just pull the rewards from the cheaters. You don't have to give them a lifetime ban, but do something to show the honest players that cheaters don't win.
  • nameplasnameplas Posts: 239 ★★
    KhanMedina wrote: »
    nameplas wrote: »
    I'm actually surprised this stayed this long. I saw a thread literally disappear (not even being closed) right after a minute. They should be banned permanently, buying cheap units is wrong and kabam is giving them another chance which is wrong as well. That's like letting everyone assume we can violate TOS for once, then get back after a week.

    Was it the one I posted about going on vacation for a week so I might as well buy 3rd party units? I got a warning for that one, but they know exactly where I was going with that comment. Just pull the rewards from the cheaters. You don't have to give them a lifetime ban, but do something to show the honest players that cheaters don't win.

    Yeah must be that one, asking for a confirmation of a 7 day ban only.
    And yeah, i agree do something to show rest of the community that they matter, not just the ones who got caught. It's been a very weird couple of months, while kabam has been doing a great job with all the rewards, we cannot forget the server breakdowns all over December to the crystal mixup last week. The lag and bugs have been there forever and now this, just makes a player feel disrespected and not cared about. I actually suggested this game to a couple of friends when kabam had the Facebook popularity thing going on but then the servers never let them play, it was embarassing. Not related to the post, but thought I'd say. Sigh*
  • Hulk_77Hulk_77 Posts: 782 ★★★
    Let's not talk about situations that may or may not have happened so much as moving forward.

    What will Kabam pledge to do about this issue?
  • Leiva_darkLeiva_dark Posts: 321 ★★
    edited January 2018
    Hulk_77 wrote: »
    Let's not talk about situations that may or may not have happened so much as moving forward.

    What will Kabam pledge to do about this issue?

    exact
  • Hulk_77Hulk_77 Posts: 782 ★★★
    Leiva_dark wrote: »
    nameplas wrote: »
    I'm actually surprised this stayed this long. I saw a thread literally disappear (not even being closed) right after a minute. They should be banned permanently, buying cheap units is wrong and kabam is giving them another chance which is wrong as well. That's like letting everyone assume we can violate TOS for once, then get back after a week.

    Why should they close? He is not addressing prohibitions or blaming anyone. He is addressing a topic to find an answer to the fact of buying cheap runes and the consequences that could cause in the game. unlike the previous threads that only ablaban prohibition. Different theme looking different answer. I would also like an answer to this topic that has not been addressed

    Exactly. Trying to get us to have the discussion we need to be having to address this moving forward.
  • nameplasnameplas Posts: 239 ★★
    Leiva_dark wrote: »
    nameplas wrote: »
    I'm actually surprised this stayed this long. I saw a thread literally disappear (not even being closed) right after a minute. They should be banned permanently, buying cheap units is wrong and kabam is giving them another chance which is wrong as well. That's like letting everyone assume we can violate TOS for once, then get back after a week.

    Why should they close? He is not addressing prohibitions or blaming anyone. He is addressing a topic to find an answer to the fact of buying cheap runes and the consequences that could cause in the game. unlike the previous threads that only ablaban prohibition. Different theme looking different answer. I would also like an answer to this topic that has not been addressed

    The other thread was about the exact same issue but with sarcasm. While i do agree it should have been deleted, i can understand that post makers frustration. And I'm pretty sure we're being watched by the mods, they know we are expecting an answer but let's see if they answer or it's the good old "closing this thread" response
  • Hulk_77Hulk_77 Posts: 782 ★★★
    I think a special investigator on Kabam's end would be a good idea. Apparently some people have "evidence" of these transactions. It would be good if there was a designated member of support for people to submit this evidence too. Unfortunately most of the time general support requests are met with confusion on topics way less complicated than this one.
  • Vdh2008Vdh2008 Posts: 968 ★★★★
    Hulk_77 wrote: »
    I think a special investigator on Kabam's end would be a good idea. Apparently some people have "evidence" of these transactions. It would be good if there was a designated member of support for people to submit this evidence too. Unfortunately most of the time general support requests are met with confusion on topics way less complicated than this one.

    I hear Robert Mueller may be looking for another job soon.
  • Hulk_77Hulk_77 Posts: 782 ★★★
    Found this is another thread that failed to stay in the proper lane:

    1. It has always been our policy to not discuss the actions taken against someone else's account. This is a privacy policy that we have always adhered to.
    2. We take terms of service violations very seriously, and the severity of a violation, if a player has a previous history of any violations, as well as what conclusive proof of something we actually have are all factors in determining which action is taken. We do not debate account specific actions publicly, nor do we allow players to 'petition' against other players.
    3. What may feel to be 'proof' of something in many instances is not conclusive information that we can act upon. LINE is a great example of that fact. Many players have been impersonated on LINE, it is not a Kabam owned channel, and we cannot beyond doubt prove that someone on LINE is who they say they are or who someone thinks they are. This means that conversations had on LINE (we often have screenshots shared with us) cannot be used as 'proof' of something. In some cases, we can take information that we glean from these screenshot conversations to help guide us in terms of what we might investigate in the game, but if further corroboration cannot be found directly in MCOC, conversations in LINE do not constitute proof.

    Interesting about #3. I think a little organization would go a ways on this. For example, if you the players with evidence had a specific member of support to submit these too, it would help organize any investigation efforts. And, I think that you can't necessarily use Line as definitive evidence for the reasons listed above, you could definitely use it as a jump off point. If you see a player in stuff submitted via line, it wouldn't be hard to check and see that the account is usually played in say, Michigan, and that it had a ton of small unit purchases come from SE Asia. That ought to be enough to tell Kabam that that player did indeed buy discounted units from thieves abroad. And outside of whatever actions they take in game, I again strongly urge them to submit all evidence gathered to local authorities in the player's jurisdiction.
  • Hulk_77Hulk_77 Posts: 782 ★★★
    Vdh2008 wrote: »
    Hulk_77 wrote: »
    I think a special investigator on Kabam's end would be a good idea. Apparently some people have "evidence" of these transactions. It would be good if there was a designated member of support for people to submit this evidence too. Unfortunately most of the time general support requests are met with confusion on topics way less complicated than this one.

    I hear Robert Mueller may be looking for another job soon.

    Lol. It doesn't need to be that level. Just better than you submitting a ticket about an unexpected maintenance wasting your boost and getting a response from ThunderDog who cuts and pastes 2 halfway relevant answers and fails to do anything.
  • Vdh2008Vdh2008 Posts: 968 ★★★★
    Jurisdiction is a nightmare, though. These guys have VPNs bouncing all over the world. Who's jurisdiction is that? The internet police?
  • It happened. It's happened before without any harsh or long term punishment. A hard line needs to be taken on this sort of thing.
  • Well. This thread only has 4 total flags but isn't being bumped with replies. Guess it's possible just my reply didn't bump it.
  • Hulk_77Hulk_77 Posts: 782 ★★★
    That's weird.

    Agree that jurisdiction would be a nightmare but no reason to make it easier for criminals to get away with it IMO. Report them anyways. If nothing else, taking a hardline stance discourages more of the same.
  • nameplasnameplas Posts: 239 ★★
    chunkyb wrote: »
    Well. This thread only has 4 total flags but isn't being bumped with replies. Guess it's possible just my reply didn't bump it.

    Yeah, make a thread with sarcasm or asking questions directly, it will be deleted. Make a thread in a constructive manner obeying all forum rules, it will magically stay down without being bumped at all even if people comment. Thanks kabam!
  • Hulk_77Hulk_77 Posts: 782 ★★★
    nameplas wrote: »
    chunkyb wrote: »
    Well. This thread only has 4 total flags but isn't being bumped with replies. Guess it's possible just my reply didn't bump it.

    Yeah, make a thread with sarcasm or asking questions directly, it will be deleted. Make a thread in a constructive manner obeying all forum rules, it will magically stay down without being bumped at all even if people comment. Thanks kabam!

    I'm pretty sure it bumps when I've posted to it.
  • Non-bumping threads isn't a new thing here tbh.

    Regardless. This whole situation is ugly and has a lot of moving parts. I get that. But the typical head in the sand, wait for it to pass sorta thing doesn't work here. That's what happened last time and not enough people knew what went on. Not enough people knew accounts were reinstated or why they were. That's not the situation this time tho.
  • RehctansBewRehctansBew Posts: 438 ★★★
    i71bupjsdnq6.gif

    In before the lock!
  • SvainSvain Posts: 453 ★★
    edited January 2018
    Unfortunately this issue is probably going to be swept under the rug. Which is obvious because they're keeping this thread from being bumped to the top.
  • TheGodfatherTheGodfather Posts: 30
    Svain wrote: »
    Unfortunately this issue is probably going to be swept under the rug. Which is obvious because they're keeping this thread from being bumped to the top.

    Noticed this as well. Pathetic. They just hide behind their flawed policies.
  • Hulk_77Hulk_77 Posts: 782 ★★★
    Hulk_77 wrote: »
    nameplas wrote: »
    chunkyb wrote: »
    Well. This thread only has 4 total flags but isn't being bumped with replies. Guess it's possible just my reply didn't bump it.

    Yeah, make a thread with sarcasm or asking questions directly, it will be deleted. Make a thread in a constructive manner obeying all forum rules, it will magically stay down without being bumped at all even if people comment. Thanks kabam!

    I'm pretty sure it bumps when I've posted to it.

    Actually, it doesn't anymore.

    That's very uncool. I'm sure this is a difficult discussion for Kabam to have but if they don't, they're doing a few things:

    -implying it's okay for players to do this
    -getting in bed with criminals
    -ensuring I stop spending on this game

    At least make some post about this problem, how they intend to address it, what the rules are, etc. Ignoring it is as dispicable as condoning it.
  • KhanMedinaKhanMedina Posts: 927 ★★★
    edited January 2018
    It's clear that cheater's prosper here as long as they are also spenders. Just be sure to take advantage of any 3rd party offers that come your way as well if you'd like to compete with the top players.

    The fact that they can't lock this thread because it doesn't break any terms, but they still buried it by not allowing bumps, is my proof of this. They won't even discuss a harsher penalty as long as you invest in the game.
  • It would seem to me that Kabam should have a vested interest in protecting the integrity of their game. Yes, revenue matters (and let's be honest, is the reason they do this). But ultimately if a game can't be trusted to be fair (and legal) will new people join? Will current players stay? And if the base dwindles off, will the whales still enjoy the game as much or will they move on to a new contest? This game won't last forever, but with the right management can certainly be prolonged.

    Also, why don't new posts bring this thread to the front of the forums? That seems shady at best.
  • SvainSvain Posts: 453 ★★
    Leave it to kabam mods to keep this post from being bumped because they don't have the balls to address this issue. I'm honestly just thinking about calling it a game because of how shady this all is.
  • It is odd that it doesn’t bump after a response.
This discussion has been closed.