Why nerfing Spider Woman is a really bad move

Well here is my take on the situation. Kabam has made a lot of mistakes recently. Some have been corrected, some stayed. The players community is on the edge. And you decide to nerf one of the most popular champions this year that almost everybody liked and almost no one complained about.

Dont get me wrong some champions are literally asking to be nerfed and its often had been done before. So what is wrong with this nerf? Let me explain.

Previously the reasons for nerfing a champion have been either some game breaking mechanics he had (permastun etc) or that his kit hasnt been functioning as described (most recent nerfs of Shocker and Kingpin are good examples of that). With Spiderwoman neither is the case. As of now she is strong but not overpowered champion that in no way breaks the game. Removing her Ensnare just lowers her utility she was initially "sold" with. You cant also insist that there is some mistake in her kit description. That Ensnare was included from the start there and worked exactly as described.

So the only reason for the Spider Woman nerf seems to be "we have released a very strong but not "paywalled" champion that a lot of people have got for free from the recent Titans openings (to nerf her just a week after people were specifically opening their stashed Titan crystals to get SW is especially frustrating) and intend to change this". And this is really low.

Comments

thgr8houdini

Yep, agree 100%. I

Wallywest400m

I agree. I hate kabam so much at this point

M_A_D_D_Y

Exactly OP, nerfs are supposed to be for champs that are actually game-breaking or a nightmare on defense…. not for someone just performing slightly better than the number Kabam scribbled on their little rating chart. Their logic is basically, ‘we gave her a 3.5/5 on defense, but she’s acting like a 4/5- sound the alarms!’ Meanwhile they drop monsters like Serpent and paywalled Dark Phoenix who can delete you the longer the fight goes with barely any real counters. And Spider-Woman….A science champ with fury buffs that actually make her weaker in some mystic matchups. The hypocrisy is unreal- maybe the so-called Balance (nerf) team should start by balancing their own heads before touching a champ that was never broken to begin with.

Better yet, hire an actual testing team so you don’t spend six months letting players ranka champ up just to “balance” her later and call it a fix.

Mugs101

Kabam - please just listen to your player base on this proposed nerf. It is unnecessary and you haven't properly thought this through. There are counter proposals that are being proposed (just look at any of the recent posts from content creators like KT1, Seitan, Vega etc. Do the right thing please.

HungaryHippo

The real issue is waiting 6 months to do this and gaslighting the players. I don’t think it’s wrong to not want Jessica Drew to fight the class wheel but Kabam is clearly being dishonest here.

Little_Crocodili29

Count me as one of schmucks who got her from my stash of hard worked for and saved Titans. Took her to R4. Playing with her made me forget for a few minutes the load of **** this game has been lately. She actually made the game fun. But that's not at all the intention here is, is it kbm? What a disaster of a company.

Ercarret

I have no problem with the defensive nerf itself. I think the Ensnare debuff is a menace on defense. You have a near-constant 30% for any ability of yours to fail. She's basically Domino (at least an unwakened Domino), and if that's not who she is explicitly meant to be, then I absolutely understand why they'd remove the ability on defense. One of the most important aspects in learning how to counter a champion is for them to be consistent, and Spider-Woman is wildly inconsistent to fight. Even if you bring a champion who has abilities to counter her, those abilities can just get shut down randomly.

I don't have any strong opinion on the removal of Ensnare on attack since it works in a way that I don't really vibe with, but I can understand that others have other views and value it higher than I do. I feel like an easy workaround - if the whole "keep Ensnare on attack but remove it on defense" thing is too hard - is to add some other mechanic that works in a similar way. Replace the Ensnare debuff with a Slow debuff or a True Strike buff; just something that allows her to keep countering Evade.

Both of those ideas would give her additional utility - Slow grants anti-Unstoppable, True Strike gives anti-Autoblock - so I can see how it would maybe look as a not-needed buff to her. But then again, she would lose her ability to lower the opponent's ability accuracy, so I feel as if it's a bit of a give and take.

Alternatively, you could remove the Ensnare from that constant timer and have it activate with some specific action. Say a special or heavy attack, or, to keep it in line with the rest of her kit, maybe an intercept. That would make it less of a hassle on defense since you would actively have to be struck by that specific attack for it to trigger, but you'd still have access to it on attack.

MCOCHazza

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2881448#Comment_2881448

I think slow and true abilities have their own issues in her kit.

A slow would work slightly different as it’s ability accuracy based and also doesn’t work vs skill. The unstoppable counter is nice as it’s one of her focuses though.

True strike is not a debuff and so she would be able to counter evade in debuff immune or purify scenarios. (side note, I think true focus fits her better. True strike ignores armour and resistances as well, and she’s not supposed to be an auto block counter so TA isn’t as applicable as something like true focus, as miss is one of her main focuses)

I think a panic debuff or just a 0% ensnare is more appropriate. Works against all classes as before, is not ability accuracy dependent and does not create weird interactions with AAR. Panic does ignore miss as well but kabam stated that was one of her goals. I think 0% ensnare (while it looks funky) is functionally the most practical choice imo as nothing about her utility changes other than the AAR.

Paul_V

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2881457#Comment_2881457

They should just come up with a new debuff that specifically shuts down evade and does nothing else. Similary like they have introduced Wither instead of Petrify.

AzaiDay

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2881423#Comment_2881423

There’d be no issue if these seemingly subjective ratings were more objective AND were actually used as a true metric by which we adjust Champions by.

Too many champions and too many instances that suggest otherwise - making these justifications used by Kabam, inconsistent and disingenuous at best.

Doesn’t take a genius or a long search to look at numerous champions’ ratings - relative to / compared to others’ ratings - to see that IF using these ratings were justifiable reasons to adjust, there’d be a significant amount of champions that needed adjustments but never were.

The issue in that case would less about Serpent being a 5/5 and not adjust, because he was intended to be that (for what’s hopefully justifiable reasons), and more about how we should NOT be given reasons as justifiable only when it’s convenient for Kabam especially in the face of too many evidences proving otherwise - it’s dishonest, inconsistent and numerous other adjectives to those effects.

altavista

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2881448#Comment_2881448

The problem with this favorable reading is that randomness is not portrayed as "damaging to the player experience" in any other situation. Spider-man randomly evades the whole fight in unpredictable ways, Black Cat has a chance to evade and cause your ability to fail for most of the fight, Jean Grey can unpredictably cause you to experience Reversed Controls or not, Anti-Venom can place permanent disorients on you, Karolina Dean will have random sun fields the entire fight that you can get caught in, etc.

The solution has always been - play a certain way, don't use this champion, or use a different champion. The solution has never been "let's remove this ability so you don't have to deal with it."

While Kabam are within their rights to choose to remove Ensnare, their explanation is full of lies and mischaracterization.

SirGamesBond

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2881429#Comment_2881429

.......

The truth hurts more but it also gets accepted. Many in our comminty understand it form a balance point. The white kights will fight for the truth and shuu away the whiny crybabies (not the ones with actual criticism)

Lie to the community, and you lose your white knights.

SW discussion is 99% one sided because of kabam's deception.

EdisonLaw

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2881430#Comment_2881430

Past champs could get around class relationships, so why not Spiderwomab?

runrebel

It’s Kabam how can anyone be surprised they are screwing over their clients when it is just par for their course. Surprised they haven’t replaced it with a non-nerfed version you have to pay for.

HaverTime

She countered too many champs that weren't mystics. They just didn't want to say that.

Wait until you guys see how well Karolina counters people who aren't Tech champions. Absolutely a nerf coming her way by the Spider-Woman logic.

Repto23

BeastDad

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2881822#Comment_2881822

Yep, I remember this like it was yesterday.

What a dumpster company.

GroundedWisdom

As much as people don't like the change, and I personally don't see the need, it has nothing to do with free or spending. I don't know why everything needs to be looked at from a money perspective.

They've committed to reviewing all Champs after a certain period, in relation to their goals. Simply put, any Champ can be altered if they see fit, and they have the rights to do that.

This is the first one in a while that was on a more popular Champ. Most of the most recent reviews have either been minor additions, or leaving Champs as-is.

As much as I don't see the point, these things will come up from time to time.

xenchief

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2881840#Comment_2881840

And yet there's an easy fix that doesn't require angering your fanbase. Remove it on defense only. We know they can do it. TBH the fact that they haven't come out and said they'll do that already leads me to believe they're pulling a fast one here. I'm not usually one to yell my head off on the forums but this one doesn't make a lot of sense.

GroundedWisdom

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2881853#Comment_2881853

How do you remove an Ability for Defense and not Offense?

Repto23

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2881908#Comment_2881908

Here are several examples for defenders

Enchantress has a whole part of her kit

and here is one for attack