If Ensnare is removed from Spider-woman's offensive kit...

In my opinion, rank-down tickets would not be enough compensation. It would be more appropriate to refund the amount of money that people spent to obtain the champion, or the number of units required to do the same.

Why? You are not just adjusting attack or defense values to bring her into "balance." You are removing a key piece of her utility.

Why do people care? We care because you advertised this champion as one who could counter Evade and also had a chance at Ability Accuracy Reduction. The Deep Dive actually plays up the fact that, in her current form, she is a Bullseye counter. It's not just Bullseye either. It's nodes and everything else.

When YOU call her defensive prowess out as the reason for this change, just remove it from her when she is on defense. DO NOT take it away from her on offense. You are more than capable of doing this, just like you gave Cull Obsidian three starting charges only when he is in Battlegrounds.

Anything else would require refunds. This is straight-up false advertising. In this case, you got a ton of people to spend a lot of money or units, and now you are changing the product in significant ways, including the ways that you advertised were so awesome. Do the right thing. A large swath of the community is disgusted with these tactics.

Comments

TheUglyone123

I would much rather them not touch her at all, but to each their own. I suppose this would be beneficial to some, but I’m probably not ranking mine down, cause she’ll still gonna be a menace, cause Kabam doesn’t know what makes her a good defender and are leaving fumble in her kit

CandyCane2

Well Said 👏

CheeseMaster482

ErmmmmErmmmm buddy, did you not read the TOS. my beloved kabam is always right, maybe learn to read the TOS before critizing them 👿.

AngstyAngus

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2882319#Comment_2882319

I've read the TOS. They can do whatever they want, but as their recent track record at the very least shows, it doesn't mean that it's going to be right or even a successful implementation. With Kabam alienating the player base seemingly every chance they get, and their revenue going down year after year, the game won't be around much more than a couple more years before the plug is pulled. I'm going to criticize them when it's deserved. Maybe they'll do better with their next game.

MCOCHazza

For me personally, while I don’t think she needed a nerf on defense, I can kinda understand the argument.

I mean, from a BGs and war perspective, she performs very well on defense. In my opinion she was definitely above. 3.5/5, probably more like a 4.

I think removing ensnare on defense is a good change. Champs that are supposed to counter her, will now do so more consistently without their abilities failing throughout the fight. I think that definitely aligns her more with the 3.5. It’s a minor change to her defensive threat and while I don’t think she was too strong on defense, I can see how she was outperforming her initial goal.

What I completely disagree with is how they ripped out a core piece of utility from her offensive kit and didn’t seem to understand the impact that it would have. Having ‘some effect on her attack power’ is very vague and honestly not very accurate. It’s removing utility that allowed her to excel against nodes and champions with both the AAR and evade counter.

Kabam talks about her matchup spread - which to me speaks to the kind of fights she was designed to take. Fights that they would demonstrate in the deep dive to show what she can do and what her targets are. One of those was bullseye, which makes this ensnare removal even more confusing when considering this was the primary basis for removing it offensively.

They specifically call out enchantress and say that because ensnare’s evade counter wasn’t really used, therefore it should be removed. However, the ensnare’s AAR WAS useful in the enchantress matchup, and she has targets in her matchup spread that she uses the ensnare for. So this argument is pretty weak.

They also say that the ability accuracy reduction from ensnare wasn’t potent enough to encourage using it as a way to shut off abilities, but that it was potent enough to create confusing interactions. This line baffles me. If it was not potent enough to reliably shut off abilities, then it’s clearly not too powerful. But who says people aren’t encouraged to use it? I’ve used it and it’s helped me plenty of times. I can understand the unpredictability of abilities failing can create some confusing interactions for players (such as xbones’ AAR failing) but in my opinion, it’s not too strange and unpredictable to where it’s worth removing altogether.

My thought is that it must be too powerful and therefore it has to be removed. But kabam’s reasoning is actually the opposite, saying that the ensnare is not really potent enough or useful enough for her kit and therefore it should be removed. Why remove it if it’s not too powerful? It’s clearly useful as you’ve shown in the deep dive and looking across your data. It’s clearly not too strong as you’ve outlined yourself.

finally - they wrap up the rebalancing by saying this is an important update to bring more balance to the game, to stop the large influx of huge defensive threats in the game. I couldn’t tell if this was sarcasm at first, but I quickly realised they were not joking.

To me, if you have a defender that’s too strong, but they’re not too powerful on attack (as they said in the post) then nerfing them on BOTH attack and defense just makes zero sense. The defensive change by itself makes sense, but there’s a much better way to stop defenders from flooding the game…

AngstyAngus

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2882324#Comment_2882324

I agree with pretty much all of this. Hopefully Kabam gets the message. Thanks for replying.

Demonzfyre

Question… should we get our money back when a champ is buffed? Should we get rank up tickets for buffed champs?

JhonST33

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2882312#Comment_2882312

Kabam knows what makes her a great defender, them just said that just because don't wanna admit the obvious attacking nerf.

Asher1_1

Okpye chilling with her ensnare

MCOCHazza

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2882331#Comment_2882331

No, because a champ gets better.

That’s like buying a car and then the dealer I bought it from tells me he’s going to make it faster and have better handling.

Am I going to ask for a refund because my car got better? No. It’s a silly argument to make. If something gets worse, you were sold a product that did a job to a certain degree, and then it got worse. You should be entitled to some kind of compensation because it’s not doing as well as it was advertised to.

but if something is better, why would you want to refund it? It does everything you want it to do, and MORE. There’s no reason for a refund if something improves.

Or take software. If Apple pushes an update that breaks my phone, I’m going to Apple to get compensation. But if I get an update that improves my battery life and makes it look nicer, am I going to complain? No, of course not.

honestly a lot of your arguments just seem to be the polar opposite to the general sentiment, just for attention or to aggravate people. I’m sure you’re a very nice person but on the forums you come across as someone because some of your arguments lack common sense and just seem to be there to create more chaos.

arifin74

Sure, and then delete the champion from your account, and block any chance of pulling that champion again as a form of apology—so you won’t have to suffer the pain of getting such a worthless champion for at least a year.

Or are you asking to get resources, units, and money plus keep her, probably even ranked up too?

SirGamesBond

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2882331#Comment_2882331

Omg yes!

Buffed champ = $100 credit for every player and rank up gem...

Rayven5220

Let me get this straight so we're on the same page...

OMFG they need to give us refunds, this was false advertising!

Then the next post you say "I've read the TOS and I know what it says".

So which is it?

Da2Vero33Man

This suggestion is the best one. Remove the senate while on Defence but leave her kit alone while on Attack.

Demonzfyre

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2882338#Comment_2882338

OPs point was that a champ has had changes made to them after sales. Let's Let forget the fact that the balance program purpose is clearly laid out and the ToS clearly gives them every right to make changes regardless of reason. Let's put that aside. So if you're asking for refunds, rank down gems, etc… because they decided to make changes to a champ, why wouldn't the same happen for a buff? That champ is no longer "as advertised".

Remember, we're following OPs logic here.

Actual logic would tell you that what Kabam decided to do is fine because it's within the rebalance programs purpose. It's fine to be upset. I'm not sitting here telling anyone to not be frustrated. I have her at R4, so it's not like I'm not affected. But we can't be surprised nor can we, the community, go crazy with talking about refunding all of the purchases, how it's false advertising and all the other nonsense when we know that ALL new and reworked champs are subject to possible rebalance.

if your argument is that "it's no longer as advertised", then that goes for buffed champs too.

AngstyAngus

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2882390#Comment_2882390

There is no world, nor is there any market, where anyone would seek compensation for a product that was actually better than advertised, or had some significant unadvertised benefits.

"One more thing…this iPod can make phone calls. We call it the iPhone." If people got that iPhone and its ability to make phone calls was taken away despite the premium they paid and all the advertising to attract them, they would demand compensation. No one ever demanded compensation for their "buffed" iPhone when Apple suddenly included a level tool in the Compass app. Sure, Apple didn't necessarily advertise that, but it's there regardless. It's not about strict adherence to advertising, it's about taking away significant advertised value. They could change the color of Spider-woman's hair to green. I wouldn't care about that.

OhDear2015

Totally agree.

She was advertised with ensnare, wasn‘t she?

It is not like just some minor change on her abilities, her whole skillset is gonna change.

Bugmat78

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2882312#Comment_2882312

I wonder if you know you were gaslighted - of course they know why she's a good defender and it benefits them. That is why fumble isn't being removed. Ensnare benefits attack more than defense and attack benefits means less profits for them, with players spending less resources in content.

TheUglyone123

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2882714#Comment_2882714

apparently my message wasn’t dripping with enough sarcasm…cause it clearly went over your head. I’m well aware of what my R4 swoman has in her kit and what makes her a good attacker and defender.