I think I've finally worked out why I am so upset about SW.

First, sorry for how consistent I've been on this topic. I know it can be annoying for one person to consistently banter on one specific thing and I know I have made a lot of posts on this topic so thanks, sorry again for that!

Now, why am I so upset about this nerf? At first I thought it was just the fact that I had spent money on this character and that I was just very hard to swallow the idea of what I paid for is not what I got. Now, this is a completely legitimate complaint but, for myself personally, when I work out the cause of a problem, I start to move forward and what I found was this rationale simply did not calm my mind and every day I was still the same level of indignant if not more. With the dev diary release though I think I have figured it out.

I believe the reason I am so upset by all of this is, they are clearly lying and gaslighting as a response (I know people have said this, but sometimes I need to get there myself to really get something). Not a single person, maybe past the first week or two said Spider-women was too OP on defense and needed a nerf, no one. Yet, since day one, and still to this day, people are asking for Serpent to be nerfed. This Spider-women situation has nothing to do with her defensive capabilities it has everything to do with her offensive capabilities and this gaslighting that it is not is just really bothering me.

If they had just said, she is too strong on attack, or that ensnare is just too OP, we have to take it off because she's K.O'd too many Serpents and its just not what we can tolerate, I'd be upset for sure but I'd get over it. This gaslighting, acting like Spiderwoman is to toxic on defense and that Kabam cares about defense in any way shape or form (Enchantress, Serpent, Dark Pheonix, Yuelana etc) is just nonsense and insulting. I think I'm so angry about this because I think they insulted our intelligence, and I think I took that personally.

In any case, it is what it is. I do appreciated the Dev Diaries and Kabam Rex was super nice to comment a few times on my post (Its definitely not there fault, Rex, Pinwheel there great). I think its also important to mention that, its not a full reversal or, what would prove me wrong and that is keeping ensnare on attack, but at least they were willing to do something and show they to listen. I just think in the end, this was absolutely terrible for the game. I feels completely like the precedence going forward is that if there is any champion that provides any sort of genuine upper hand, they are immediately going to be nerfed, and our rational is going to look you point blank and say, its for the health of the game and your best player experience. Toxic dudes.

Comments

J0eySn0w

Bro, you're letting them get off too easily. The gaslighting and insulting is infuriating. This is still a nerf and not a rebalance. Do they think we are fools or what. Ensnare has a 30% AAR which is equally if not more stronger than evade counter. Though not guarantee, it opens her up as to many matchups like poison related hazard shifts nodes, some annoying champion abilities and itself a 30% evade counter.

They just hate that it has a huge upside on offense. If it was purely on defense, they wouldn't have done a thing 100%. We have evidence of this in Serpent, Enchantress, Yelena, Photon, etc. Why do they regret not balancing these and trying to walk back? Then go back and rebalance all of them.

If it’s just a defensive problem, remove ensnare only on defense, simple. We have so many champion abilities that work like that.

This company and the workers are really treating the players like trash. Its a toxic and abusive relationship especially if you spend your hard earned money on the game. You may not fully understand if you don't spend on the game. That said, personally I'm still not buying this. It’s not a middle ground, its Kabam trying to get what they want at our expense and making us feel they care.

Fuzzycat

I agree! Kabam's Spider-Woman Dev Diary was of course a step in the right direction but it still feels like the usual cycle: release a strong champ, drive sales, then tone the champ down later. Karolina and Nico may be next in line.

The solution for Spider-Woman was simple enough:
Attacker → Ensnare ON (maybe even as a pre-fight ability)
Defender → Ensnare OFF
Instead, Kabam is taking away her offensive strength as well. It isn't a "middle ground".

The claim that Spider-Woman on Node 42 is "terrifying" is overstated - the real issue there is fumble. At the same time, champions like Enchantress, Serpent, and Bullseye create bigger problems across the wider player base but aren't being touched. Spider-Woman just happens to counter too many "unbeatable" defender kits, from Dark Phoenix's immortality to Serpent's death immunity. So she's a big problem for their (and Kabam's) fragile egos. That's why the nerf hammer had to fall.

Let's not forget that Spider-Woman was sold on the strength of her ensnare, and now it's being taken away under the name of "balancing." In reality, this looks more like protecting future champions and revenue streams. At the end of the day, it isn't Spider-Woman that needs rebalancing - it's Kabam's approach.

BeastDad

Because it is a blatant bait and switch which is immoral? (And in cases outside of this dumpster fire usually illegal)

DJTalonSpeak

I think it's high time a Class Action Lawsuit for all the times Kabam did this and took real money to sell one product and through deceptive practices defraud the player base. Some lawyer needs to take this up. Multi-million / billion dollar lawsuit and give the money back to the players.

Shamir51

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883528#Comment_2883528

Ahh, the good old class action card. It's been a minute since we had one of those.

DJTalonSpeak

@Shamir51 they are literally defrauding people bro that spend real money to aquire something that is sold one way and them completely change the use of the product after it has been bought. Wtf are you on about.

Shamir51

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883536#Comment_2883536

So what are you waiting for? If you think you have a case, go and launch your own case.

Dr. Crab

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883536#Comment_2883536

It's in the terms of service that they can do this. Regardless of what they sell us, they have the right to change anything at any time. There is no legal consequences, but with that being said, we spend money freely we also can not freely. These decision have consequences, in this case though, not legal ones.

M_A_D_D_Y

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883491#Comment_2883491

She didn’t just shut down champ abilities……she sometimes put a full-on ‘DND’ on the most annoying nodes. But now, many of us know how Kabam’s ‘rebalancing system’ works (it’s like Ensnare….completely unpredictable). Some players who get hyped by the next shiny, overhyped champ Kabam flaunts might think twice before spending cash, likely waiting for the rebalancing confirmation….which usually means that champ will end up in titan crystals anyway. Lesson learned… for some.

BringPopcorn

The reasoning for the nerf is the insult.

3.5 defensive rating, what does that number even mean, and what are the parameters for that score? There are champs with a score of 4 that are not even close to a 5 rating difficulty one.

Who even checks that rating chart as reference to acquire and rank up champs

BringPopcorn

Forgot to say one more thing and I can't edit.

This 3.5 rating excuse, first time I have seen it in all this years, creates a precedent. Not the legal kind you lawyer crazed people.

It creates a precedent for them to be able to sell any champ with a questionable scoring based on who knows what, and then say "its overperforming in attack, we will be taking out this and that

Are we supposed to let this happen based on good faith and trust?

Dr. Crab

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883564#Comment_2883564

I think this is a very important take and really, to be honest, I don't see how this game can survive in the environment they are creating. I unfortunately am in no way shape or form a free to play player, but I can tell you that this game needs free to play players because if all it is is the whales or even just dolphins there's really no point in playing because you just kind of stopped losing a competitive edge, which is really where the excitement of spending is. So if nobody can trust any champion release and it's become essentially impossible to purchase every possible counter for everything for the average person than half of if not more the community is going to leave which will intern eventually cause the whales to leave.

BringPopcorn

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883565#Comment_2883565

I get you; but at the same time I think you are trying too hard for someone to come up with a legit reason to convince you to keep spending and enjoying the game the same you did until now. I personally don't think there is way to reassure that or even trust that reassurance.

Bizaaro

Hypocrisy at its peak...they always say..they listen to people …and go ...in opposite direction

WednesdayLength

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883491#Comment_2883491

You keep posting this as if it's a thing they do consistently but like, where is the evidence of this? I can't think of a single attacker that has been nerfed as part of the rebalancing before spider

Demonzfyre

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883508#Comment_2883508

All this time on the forums and you have yet to figure out what bait and switch is?

Demonzfyre

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883536#Comment_2883536

Good luck. 🙃

GroundedWisdom

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883528#Comment_2883528

You would have to prove that something was sold to you. Unfortunately, nothing is sold to us for ownership. We lease the license to use their product, and they reserve the right to alter it in whatever way is best for the product. No one buys anything for ownership, and in spending, we agree to adhere to that Terms of Service agreement.

ItsClobberinTime

I'm sorry but 30% aar to take on hazard shift nodes? Lmfao some of these comments I swear, I have a r4 Spider Woman used her everywhere from AW to AQ to BGs, calling that ensnare specifically the aar part reliable is absolutely laughable. I get that some of you are still upset but that aar barely did anything, and when it did it was so random and such a rare occurrence that it was almost like playing without it, it's 30% not even 50%.

I'm down to **** on Kabam for all the other problems within the game right but saying the problem wasn't the evade counter but the aar part is just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. Removing that aar won't change the matchups I use her in in the slightest because I'd have to be pretty dense to use her for hazard shift nodes with that 30% ensnare instead of champs with actual immunities or resistances and double the amount of survivability. Science class literally has Nefaria like come on people 💀🥀

Paul_V

I am actually one of those people who thinks that giving to SW her evade counter back is more important than AAR and can probably be OK with her Re-Nerf but just to mention: Jabari Panther has the same Ensnare debuff on her SP1 and literary no one considers JP to be any kind of a threat. More than that, on Kabam's JP page, the Ensnare is not even mentioned among "strengths" of JaPan by developers (its that insignificant from their pov there). My take that Fumble is much more annoying on defense and its one of those bad mechanics that punishes "skillful play". So I support those who thought that keeping Ensnare and removing Fumble on both attack and defense would be a much better option and would have made SW a much more balanced champion.