Great more unintentional Nerfs 😑

What about direct damage since it is "Direct" shouldn't it ignore protection and resistance

I have no faith they'll do this cleanly

Comments

Cdub5071

If you guys think they are doing this and its because of raids you are really drinking the Kool-Aid. Raids has to be the most unpopular content in the game. They are not going to improve or increase the the number of people playing by nerfing the champs that were most likely ranked up specifically for that game mode. This is like nerfing Spiderwoman because she is a good defender. This is a nerf for all burst damage champions. They didn't even use the word burst damage hoping you wouldn't connect the dots, its literally a tag in the game called burst damage but they used the word echo, that is intentional. They do not test their game and this will affect every game mode. When has Kabam ever, in the history of the game, been honest about their intentions or communicated anything in the proper way. The truth is they haven't and this is no different. The new currency is a reset of in game currency to drive offer sales, this is a nerf because champion acquisitions are the driving force in sales and they have to nerf them to keep coming out with other champs that are stronger than the ones that came before them, otherwise there is no incentive to buy new champs unless they are better than the ones you already have.

altavista

Problem: Players can cheese a very minor game mode
Solution: Instead of changing the nodes, lets play Globally with champion kit interactions,

Sure, Kabam makes handwave gestures to it being an issue in "upcoming game modes and encounters", but at the end of the day they are messing around with core aspects of champions for the sake of protecting unpopular game modes (Raids, and I would imagine the upcoming game mode would also not be very popular either).

Flavyjay

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2939500#Comment_2939500

Alright fair enough 🙌 let us wait and see

Flavyjay

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2939503#Comment_2939503

This seems like something the higher ups would do, personally I think the devs want the best but they have no control over the direction of the game.

That been said let's wait and see…

Squidopus

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2939503#Comment_2939503

The Spider-Woman nerf, at the time of announcement, had an easily identified, quantifiable change to her performance in relevant matchups and fights (and then Kabam reverted the change that actually mattered). Please explain, in clear terms, what this change to “echo damage” does and what quantifiable impacts it will have in what content, since you believe the situation to be comparable. Ignore Raids, because you said that mode doesn’t matter.

Despite what you’ve claimed, Kabam did lay out in the announcement that the change to echo damage includes certain types of Burst damage. They did not hide that fact. The fact that this change affects all Burst damage, however, is one you made up wholesale. It only affects Burst damage that scales with hit damage, hence why they came up with the new terminology of “echo damage”; something like, say, Nico’s Sp1 Burst did not have this exponential scaling and would not be affected at all by such proposed changes. This does not inspire confidence that you’ll have a proper response to my above question beyond a vague threat of “Kabam always does wrong”, but I’ll still hear you out.

I also doubt that anyone actually ranked up these champions for their Raid performance. Not because they’re bad, quite the opposite, they were fully capable of hitting the 12% cap at R1 in 30-40 seconds. That’s exactly why you wouldn’t need to rank them up, anything more would be gratuitous. You don’t need the extra health if you kill the boss that fast. Besides, Kabam always had the right to remove champs from the Raid pool, so ranking up a champ purely for Raids was never a sound decision in the first place.

Steam97

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2939566#Comment_2939566

These changes will impact far more than raids, they'll reduce damage in any possible interaction with burst damage, like power shield and you know power shield was even a bg meta so it will affect every game mode and every burst damage will feel a nerf in those situations, I hope at least they won't mess up and end up nerfing burst damages even without any nodes affecting damages, but knowing kabam is incredibly hard to trust them not to forget something or mess up something else in the process. In the end yes this will be an intentional nerf to lots and lots of champions in many possible situations, likely to make things harder to players with a new game mode that would highlight this type of burst damage, so it's not a pro player change.

Flavyjay

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2939571#Comment_2939571

That's what I'm worried about

Kabam (Osaurus) Rex

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2939503#Comment_2939503

As outlined at the end of the post, Echo damage is not the same thing as "Burst Damage."

Squidopus

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2939571#Comment_2939571

Are you people even reading the post.

This only affects Vigor and Protection effects that globally increase/decrease all damage dealt.

Here I’ll even highlight the relevant wording:

This change only affects Burst damage that scales with hit damage, not any and all forms of Burst damage, and the change (if it goes through correctly) will only interact with niche things like Vigor and Protection. If anything, Protection is far more common than Vigor and related effects, and the change will make these effects better into Protection.

I feel like I’m going insane.

Steam97

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2939599#Comment_2939599

Because its not something only with vigor and protection lol, those are only a couple of examples. Did you read that rex said gentle and samurai will have to get buffed because this change will reduce their burst damage scaling with daunted? Daunted is not a vigor and still will impact the burst damage and will be reduced because of this change and so they need to be buffed to deal same damage as they do now. There will be way many more examples of things like this but it seems you read too literally.

Average_Desi

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2939605#Comment_2939605

Daunted is a Vigor efect. It is a Vigor effect that applies during specials only. So is Retribution. There is a difference between that and power shield. Normal attack rating modifiers will function the same.

Herbal_Taxman

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2939395#Comment_2939395

Protection can be removed though. Are you doing a lot of fights with echo champs where you are just slogging through protection without bringing it down?

Squidopus

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2939605#Comment_2939605

I literally highlighted the point I needed you to read and I’m still not convinced you read it. Nor did you read that I said the change impacts things “like” Vigor and Protection, of which Daunted is one (it increases damage globally, exactly like Vigor, but only during your specials).

Like I challenged the other guy, I would like you to point out a specific matchup where you will feel the nerf, because I’m not convinced you understand it either. Power Shield is an Attack Rating increase. It’s not “reading too literally” to see that the post explicitly calls out how Attack Rating increases will not be affected by this change and conclude that an Attack Rating increase node will be unaffected.

(And Attack Rating modification was never even a scenario where echo effects could scale exponentially, they scaled linearly with it like most other things. It’s probably only mentioned in the post to try to curtail fearmongering. Unfortunately, MCoC players cannot read.)

SgtPoliteness

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2939605#Comment_2939605

You need to actually read the description of Daunted again. "The affected Champion takes increased damage during the Opponent's Special Attacks by the given potency." In Gentle's case, each Daunted increases damage taken during Special Attacks by 5% for each Muscle Mass, plus another 60% at max muscle mass to a max of 120%. So the Reverb from his SP2 adds a 25% Reverb Passive echo.

So just at the start, a hit that would deal 40k damage on a normal hit would deal 88k damage from the Daunted. The Reverb would then kick in based on that final number, adding another 22k red damage. The red damage is also boosted by 120% from the Daunted, so it's adding 48.4k red damage instead. That's a little more than half of the original white damage hit.

Now add in a 1000% Vigor boost. The normal 40k base hit would deal 88K * 1000% = 880 K base damage, which then turns into a 220k red damage burst. That red damage then gets boosted by 1000% from Vigor to 2.2 million, then gets boosted again another 120% by Daunted to 4.84 million. That's five and a half times the amount of white damage.

Herbal_Taxman

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2939619#Comment_2939619

to be fair to your forum adversary, they didn’t explain this very well. You just have an exceptionally strong grasp of the detailed mechanics.

In the announcement, they introduced a new super category of effects - echo - which no one has ever seen. And it’s meant to collect a diverse, sometimes strangely named collection of other effects that they don’t characterize very well. I can forgive players for not having a really clear understanding of echo vs burst, etc. They also could have done more to explain why Gentle and SS were called out specifically.

A question for you though — do you see this as a nerf to glancing champs?

Squidopus

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2939652#Comment_2939652

A nerf to glancing champs? Not really. They’ll technically be worse off against these echo effects, but echo effects won’t be good against them either. Red Guardian getting to trigger his Trauma bursts on a Glancing hit doesn’t change the fact that the hit still suffers from the Attack drop and anti-crit, so the resulting Burst which scales off hit damage will still be weak.

This also runs into the fact that, while Burst damage effects don’t check for Ability Accuracy on each hit, they still have to succeed the roll once to apply in the first place. Using Red Guardian as an example again, he’d be able to trigger Trauma from his Sp2 against Maestro since he can’t make Specials Glance, at which point you now deal (weak) bursts on his Basic attacks even through Glance. But he wouldn’t be able to apply it against Ant-Man while Unsteady is active; the sp2 Glancing would still prevent the Trauma from applying in the first place.

TLDR: Echo effects being better into Glance doesn’t necessarily make them practical or useful. DSHulk isn’t suddenly becoming a Maestro counter or anything.

Harryatomix

@Kabam (Osaurus) Rex Does this affect ascended gentle’s damage as well. During Iso burst his reverb damage is multiplied by the iso burst. Will this not function any more. If that is the case, are you gonna fix this interaction as well?

BringPopcorn

I don't know why this almost feels like the 2.0 version of the 12.0 debacle in disguise.

I got no faith that any changes to this things are going to be successfully applied and won't affect other aspects of the game or other champions. I think we will be looking at the Hercules/Hulkling/Valkyrie situation over and over and over. Lets be honest, they are not known for rolling out updates or changes in a working manner.