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Raids "Role Force" issue – Much more frequent and annoying

O_Deadpool_O

The "Role Force" issue in Raids is becoming significantly more annoying than it was previously. While I used to experience one problematic fight for every two or three normal ones, it is now occurring in alternating fashion: one normal fight followed by one problematic one.

I have captured video evidence demonstrating exactly what is happening:

https://youtu.be/YWf3uMidObw?si=xT34VjHQk6dV4nvJ

In the video, I am using Zemo with the "Clean Moves" role boost, fighting Peni on the leftmost path. I have included timestamps so you can easily compare the normal fights to the problematic ones.

As you can see, the problematic fights share the same behavior: I complete the role mission and receive the charges, but once I reach the limit of 50, the Role Force effect does not activate (the icon on the far left, which turns orange during a successful/normal fight, fails to trigger).

This issue has existed since Raids were first introduced—sometimes it improves, other times it regresses. In the current iteration, it is making Raids feel unnecessarily long and frustrating.

When I have brought this up before, some people suggested that "you have to complete the fights in the specific order of the roles." However, that is not a solution. There is no such requirement explicitly stated in the Raid manual. Furthermore, it is impractical: team members are often in different time zones, and many alliances use specific per-boss assignments (e.g., matching the best counter to the right lane). A strict, linear order of operations should not be mandatory.

Comments

LordSmasher

You have zero cross fight charges.

I believe if you complete this fight you'll get one cross fight charge allowing you to get the Role Force in the next fight.

However the fight after that will be back to zero and no Role Force for you.

BringPopcorn

Are you just finding out what an alliance collaboration mode is?....

Yes prople have different timezones, play times; but you also have 7 days to complete it....

MrSakuragi

Taking fights in order or at least waiting for your teammates to give you charges is one of the most basic and fundamental parts of the raids mode.

Savage123456789

Contrary to what a lot of people think, you don't have to do fights in a specific order. You just need the guy that feeds you charges, in this case for Zemo, you need the assault player to give you charges. You can get up to 7-8 charges per go. So if they play once, you have at least 8 rounds before you face this problem. It doesn't matter what order you play, the charges are the ones that matter and boost your attack.

BringPopcorn

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2960689#Comment_2960689

There is no contrary, when they released raids they made it clear that different roles needed to take turns, it doesn't mean 1-2-3. It just means turns to build charges. Of course the 1st person will go in without any, which is why the 1st person is not supposed to deplete revives by himself. It's not impossible; but its not optimal.

O_Deadpool_O

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2960684#Comment_2960684

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2960690#Comment_2960690

I have 0 cross-fight charges in all fights, you can see that there are 0 vanguard charges between fights.

Also, first fight on each boss allows you to get role force, even though there are 0 charges for all roles.

BringPopcorn

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2960691#Comment_2960691

You are supposed to wait for an alliance mate to get you some charges. Its really not that hard.

O_Deadpool_O

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2960692#Comment_2960692

Let’s read what manual defines.

Role force grants attack rating based on OTHER role charges on the boss, not on own. This means vanguard charges do not matter for vanguard.

Another line states that charges should be earned equally, but it is not a strict requirement. It feels like if everyone wants equal damage, then do that.

Nothing from what you specify can explain why role force is not activated on regular basis. Why it can occur once in 2 fights, once in 3 fights, once in 4 fights.

There is definitely some issue.

I now made 3 fights agains Hit Monkey, no problem with role force, no other teammates joined my lane. Only 4th fight had role force issue.

Savage123456789

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2960690#Comment_2960690

I'm speaking specifically for what OP is asking. You don't need turns. He just wants to be able to do full damage in all the runs. So, he only needs the assault guy once, and he can bulldoze the fight with revives. The contrary part is that people think you need to follow a specific order, which cause more back log. The first person can go in twice, get his full charges ramped, by the time third person goes in and does the same, you'll be already ramped in just 1 go and just go in whatever order you want till charges run out. Not having to do 1-2-3 then 1-2-3 over and over again.

BringPopcorn

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2960697#Comment_2960697

Yeah yeah I guess people from other alliances that bother to tell alliance mates they built some charges for them are just insane idiots...

If it makes you feel any better, sometimes description texts in the game suck, and sure that would be an issue to point out.

Now do I know why its working without charges sometimes and sometimes it doesnt? No I don't; but the times it works without are not supposed to. I guess its a pro player bug at most.

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kus234

**** I thought I was the only one, this is indeed a big issue every now and then despite ypu getting role forces and all charges the damage just doesn't scale..

superbin0001

yes, I got same issue with him, its very annoying, please fix this. I am a veteran player, legend, I am also a skilled player, a elder. 100% act 9, i got First Appearance of Stellar Forged Blade … The account is my own, enough? . I really hate 5 stars spammers here

BringPopcorn

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2960719#Comment_2960719

You should wait for charges too…

Squidopus

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2960697#Comment_2960697

You’re missing a part of the node.

Role Force’s damage boost scales with the amount of Role Charges from other Roles. However, the boost does not activate period unless you have at least one Role Charges for your own Role. That is why most Raid guides tell you to alternate fights with your teammates in some capacity, to make sure there’s enough Role Charges for each Role to go around so that everyone always gets the boost. If you’re playing well, you’ll usually cap out on those charges fast enough that you hardly need to keep to a strict “one fight each in order” routine, but you do need your ally members to feed you some charges usually. In your video, you have no Vanguard Charges corresponding to your Zemo, ergo you get no Role Force boost.

As for why you’re getting Role Force credit seemingly randomly (aka what’s obfuscating things and making you think you don’t need your own Role Charges) is a special mechanic that, to your credit, isn’t actually explained at all so fair enough.

The game tells you that your first fight into every boss gives you one Role Charge for each Role. This exists because otherwise it’d be impossible to trigger Role Force in the first fight when no Role Charges have been built yet. Anyways, that’s what the game tells you. As I understand, the game actually triggers this effect every other fight against the boss, not just the first. That’s why in your video, you alternate between triggering Role Force and not - you only trigger it every first, third, fifth, etc. fight where that special bonus kicks in and gives you a Vanguard Charge for free. Whenever it doesn’t, you have no Vanguard Charges to spend to trigger Role Force, so no boost.

It’s difficult to tell that this is what happens because the one Vanguard Role Charge you generate when that mechanic activates is immediately consumed when you win/lose that fight, so you never see it reflected in the Cross-Fights in between fights. But for evidence, look to the Assault Charges in your video. Zemo, as a Vanguard Role champ, only strictly generates Tactician Role Charges. But, as I said, that mechanic generates one of each Role Charge. Every “successful” fight you had (aka the one where the mechanic triggered), you exit the fight with one more Assault Charge than you entered with. Every “failed” fight where the mechanic didn’t trigger, the Assault Charges stay the same.

Anyways, that’s a bit of text so hopefully I explained things well enough. But as others have said, you really should just wait on your alliance mates man. You’ve got a whole week to do ‘em, and as I’ve said, you don’t need to alternate one at a time; you can very quickly build enough charges for everyone in a few fights that at that point you can all just do the boss in whatever order you please.

BringPopcorn

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2960729#Comment_2960729

superbin0001

Mine is always happened at 15 Hammers. You can see the grit is turned on. It means I gained a "Role Force", but the Yellow is not appeared here. It is clearly a bug.

It is not happened when at 1-14 hammers and 16 hammers. But when 15 hammers, the bug is happened. This image I captured at the last Raid. 15 counts is really nightmare here.

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O_Deadpool_O

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2960729#Comment_2960729

Wow, your explanation is excellent. Thank you for pointing to this line in role force description.

This makes sense.
But still, even in your explanation, it is unclear why with 0 own role charges the issue is unstable. It is only this time when I got it one fight after another.
In my experience it usually occurred once in 2-3 fights. So, still, the moment of what really happens when no force gained, what preconditions to this, is unclear.

I am not sure in next thing, maybe it is something which my memory replaces with fiction, but I think once I got this problem when doing consequent fights.

I thought maybe the time is the key to this issue. Like, if you do your fight very quick and jump in again, some state is not yet refreshed.

Anyway, you explanation is truly great. I only hope somebody from Kabam can approve it. This would be great.

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BringPopcorn

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2960844#Comment_2960844

It was my first response... I am not redirecting to anyone rofl. It is a collaborative mode you need to get support from other players, not try to plow thru it by yourself. You are the one straw manning an issue that wouldn't exist if you played the mode the way it's supposed to be played and the way most people understand is meant to be played.

I guess sorry you didn't get to finish your path by yourself and flex numbers to you alliance?

Funny to talk about the time, you took the time to record fights, edit, post, cry, and complain about an issue that just needed a simple message in the alliance chat. "Hey buddy let me know when you built some charges for me"

O_Deadpool_O

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2960846#Comment_2960846

It’s not only me who complains about the issue. There are others who regularly asks about the same on forums, reddit etc. There are many who do not ask but notice the issue. All the people I’ve met through the years, even now when I write about it in the common chat, there are ones who reply “oh, I saw this issue, I thought it is only mine”. Many players I saw and met and largest part of them, including me, do not like the obligation to do the consequent fights. If you are truly veteran player and not just pretend to be one, you can remember times when both AQ and AW required strict order of team members to remove linked nodes. Most of players who played the game at this time hate such stuff. I have a time here and now, I open the game, I want to do my alliance activities, I do them as long as all is approved. I don’t want and don’t need to wait another player to log in and “unlock” me.

About the video and complaining on the forums, well, I guess this is my time and free will to spend my time on the things which disturb me. It is not just about “a simple message”. There is some issue, it exists for a long time. I don’t see a problem to write about that on a public forum. This can be a fix in the code, or just the game mode is missing correct description or the game mode is missing correct indication when you are eligible to enter the fight and do it effectively. It is not my responsibility and not in my rights to decide that. It is also not your responsibility and not in your rights to decide that as well. You have spoken your mind, good, thanks, do not spam your “the only correct opinion”, leave some space for others. You literally spoil the thread from the problem discussion into personal objections. Chill out dude!

BringPopcorn

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2960897#Comment_2960897

So you criticize the amount of time i spend on the forums; but when I criticize you for wasting your time making a video. You are free to do whatever you want with your free time? ROFL ...

Its only a big issue for people who try to plow thru the mode and not follow simple instructions. Yes there are many people like you and all of you are playing the mode in a way it wasn't designed. There is no order for people to join, and as others have clarified not all 3 need to rotate. You just need to build charges for someone else and someone else needs to build charges for you to do damage.

Wanna make use of your free time? Show me a vid where you join with some cross charges and you fail to get Role Force charges and prove me wrong.

You are so desperate to be right that you decided to completely ignore a key aspect of raids. If you can go in with 0 charges and just finish of the fights, why on earth did they even bother creating 3 different roles instead of just letting people go and plow thru it?

What is the point if having a Tactician, Vanguard and Assault if people can just go and build their own role force charges and KO the defender?

O_Deadpool_O

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2960898#Comment_2960898

Do you have a stop button? There are many annoying things related to this game, but it seems you are the top 1.

Never on the Earth if I get the video recording showing the bug when I have role charges I will come to you and try to persuade you. I think even in this case you will tell something “Oh, this is too rare, there are more important problems, go away”.

Roles are weird and strange thing at least because there is no difference in what you actually do on the map. They could easily call them A B C and nothing would change. The only point is to make a mode slightly collaborative. It is another thing about the logic under the roles. So, do not switch the topic from one question to another.

HarleyQnn

What we actually need from Kabam in this situation:

Transparency. Please clarify the exact conditions required for "Role Force" to activate. Specifically, explain how it functions when one player enters a fight while their teammates have not yet joined - which seems is a common scenario for many players.
Visual indicators [optional, helpful]. Implement an in-game indicator that clearly signals whether "Role Force" will be active before entering the fight, so players don't waste their resources on bugged attempts.
Community management. We desperately need someone to step in and handle the guy with the popcorn. It seems his only goal is to piss off people without contributing anything of value to any conversation I've seen.