Apple Now Requires Game Developers to disclose odds on "Loot Boxes" [MERGED THREADS]

Well they are going to release them so that is a positive. We can thank Apple for that. The fact they do not want to do it here in the forums is their right. I get that it may appear that they are dragging their feet as far as posting the info but Apple has clearly told them that they are permitted to do so. It is kind of like people who wait until the last minute to file their taxes rather than file them in advance.

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

I don't see any point in arguing could've/should've/would've.

Could've, would've, and should've, represent a huge chunk of all possible feedback players can provide. If we aren't just saying everything is fine, we are generally asking what could have been done instead, suggesting what should have been done instead, or debating what would have happened if things were different.

Kabam could have, and should have made a more proactive official statement once they made a production decision, because doing so would have undoubtedly dampened much of the speculation surrounding the requirement. That is an undeniably valuable goal. I see a lot of point in taking this position, because in my opinion being basically forced at gunpoint to release these odds isn't just about the odds, it is also about combating much of the general lack of transparency that Kabam officially states is their position, but in practice isn't. I fully appreciate the limits every game development company faces when attempting to be transparent, but it is precisely my awareness of those limits that makes it even less reasonable to me that Kabam's behavior far exceeds those actual requirements.

I don't get a lot of the answers to questions about the game I have, and all of them are not just reasonable questions, they are questions Kabam's own stated disclosure position would suggest they should answer. But they don't. Maybe this will entrench them further, maybe this will loosen them up: I hope for, and advocate for, the latter. So long as that is true, I will continue to point out where they could have, and should have done better.

MattScott

Thatweirdguy wrote: »

Well they are going to release them so that is a positive. We can thank Apple for that. The fact they do not want to do it here in the forums is their right. I get that it may appear that they are dragging their feet as far as posting the info but Apple has clearly told them that they are permitted to do so. It is kind of like people who wait until the last minute to file their taxes rather than file them in advance.

Not people who are getting a refund. I’m sure if there were a change that were to increase revenue the change would be made the same day.

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MattScott wrote: »

Thatweirdguy wrote: »

Well they are going to release them so that is a positive. We can thank Apple for that. The fact they do not want to do it here in the forums is their right. I get that it may appear that they are dragging their feet as far as posting the info but Apple has clearly told them that they are permitted to do so. It is kind of like people who wait until the last minute to file their taxes rather than file them in advance.

Not people who are getting a refund. I’m sure if there were a change that were to increase revenue the change would be made the same day.

Yes of course. No question about that.

Richcowboy888

For in game purchases that expire They have offers for purchase like energy refills and potions that expire.

Demonzfyre

You aren't reading that right at all. It says "Credits or in game currencies". Energy refills and potions are in game currencies or credits. Nice try though

Thawnim

MattScott wrote: »

Thatweirdguy wrote: »

Well they are going to release them so that is a positive. We can thank Apple for that. The fact they do not want to do it here in the forums is their right. I get that it may appear that they are dragging their feet as far as posting the info but Apple has clearly told them that they are permitted to do so. It is kind of like people who wait until the last minute to file their taxes rather than file them in advance.

Not people who are getting a refund. I’m sure if there were a change that were to increase revenue the change would be made the same day.

I wait late to file my taxes even though I know I will be getting a refund. But the money is chump change and I'm a procrastinator.

Scud77

Well rules is rules...and Kabam will abide by them as they have too... those who wish to be the best of the best will as always spend up big and for everyone else...well we all choose to play or not, I’ve given up one habit, perhaps this (MCoC) will be the next, either way the choice of drop rates being displayed or not will not change the way the earth spins, it may change some habits tho...

Kingpin

5* drop rates have gone down since hulk was introduced a fortnight ago.

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Rap

The thing is though...we pretty much already know and we still keep buying em...we know the drop rates suck and once Kabam releases this info we will simply have it in writing that they suck and people will continue to buy them.

Rap wrote: »

The thing is though...we pretty much already know and we still keep buying em...we know the drop rates suck and once Kabam releases this info we will simply have it in writing that they suck and people will continue to buy them.

Yeah maybe some still will but that is no reason not too want transparency and honesty and confirmation that drop rates are not manipulated based on "other factors".

Deadbyrd9

I don’t see why people care about the odds. Most crystals have been closely determined by the amount of mass openings that have been done. Having a chance at a champ isn’t going to guarantee that champ no matter how many crystals you open. It will probably make no difference on the spending for crystals by the majority of players

qhaif111

I've been playing since one and a half year but still got only one 4 star from phc's. How rude it is. We can't tolerate it any longer.
WE NEED DROP RATES!!!!!

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ArmandStar wrote: »

can anyone remind me when was the last time we got an official response again?

Essentially last week when there was a post saying that Kabam intended to comply with Apple's guidelines and were doing so by specifically working to modify the game client to present that information to the player in-game, and that this would take some time to add to the game.

There was also a statement to the effect that there's no reason to assume there will be any regular updates on the status of those efforts until they are done.

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ArmandStar wrote: »

one week ago huh. not bad.
but i must complain about that last part where they essentially refuse to post any kind of update despite the playerbase's constant requesting of updates or similar

Without condoning or condemning, game developers everywhere seem to be extremely reluctant to share any details about their internal development process, up to and even including how long anything takes to do.

I got into a tiny amount of hot water once just for saying that a particular game feature took "about four months" to make. Nothing else, just about how long it took to make. And I wasn't NDAed on that fact either: I didn't break any specific contract requirement, it was just extremely frowned upon. There was less secrecy surrounding the NRC audit I did.

Icecold2099

I think the only items that would fall under this are crystals that are in the unit super that require you to pay real money to get.

The crystals you purchase with units don't fall under this rule because you earn units through in game activities. Yes you can purchase units, but purchasing units then purchasing crystals with those units doesn't require the odds to be disclosed.

Only when the "loot box" itself is purchased as an in app purchase through the iTunes store will it require the odds to be disclosed.

That's how I understand it anyway.

JohnKnight

If, if Kabam reveals the drop rates of every kind of crystal, the rates will be depressingly low that you don't wanna open any but quit the game

r3zonate

I thought certain countries are already forcing game companies to do this, like South Korea.

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IceHeartBlack wrote: »

you guys are all discussing apple and if mcoc was only apple exclusive then drop rates would need to be public knowledge. But that is not the case as this is cross platform ios and android and google does not have any regulations or terms that state a company needs to disclose drop rates kabam is able to skate in the gray area and only disclose what they want such as a 4% drop rate of a featured champ in a 5* crystal.

This is literally ridiculous. You seem to be saying that Kabam can tell Apple it doesn't have to obey Apple's requirements because Google doesn't have those requirements and they ship on Google as well. Apple's requirements are Apple's requirements. They do not care, nor are they required to honor, Google Play's requirements. You either ultimately play by Apple's rules, or you do not show up in Apple's App store.

I'm genuinely curious to know why you believe Apple is somehow restricted from applying its conditions on an app vendor if Google doesn't agree with it. Apple kicks apps out of the app store all the time that continue to exist perfectly fine on the Google Play store.

r3zonate

I don't understand how anyone here could blame or condone Apple for doing this. Other countries already require games to disclose this information, and I'm sure Apple already provides the information for players in those areas. How is Apple gaining anything from this?

Games use the words "rare" and "chance" loosely, giving us no idea what the actual odds are of obtaining some of the items presented in deals and people can steer clear of certain deals that seem good until you find out the actual odds of getting the better items are 0.0001% instead of 10%

Some people don't have thousands of dollars to spend on a game, and feel cheated after spending only to have wasted their hard earned money getting the same items they would have after collecting them in-game.

I'm glad Apple has decided to enforce this and hope Goggle follows the same business model. The community has already been collecting data, trying to figure out what the drop rates are anyway, so why is it such a big issue?

MattScott

r3zonate wrote: »

I don't understand how anyone here could blame or condone Apple for doing this. Other countries already require games to disclose this information, and I'm sure Apple already provides the information for players in those areas. How is Apple gaining anything from this?

Games use the words "rare" and "chance" loosely, giving us no idea what the actual odds are of obtaining some of the items presented in deals and people can steer clear of certain deals that seem good until you find out the actual odds of getting the better items are 0.0001% instead of 10%

Some people don't have thousands of dollars to spend on a game, and feel cheated after spending only to have wasted their hard earned money getting the same items they would have after collecting them in-game.

I'm glad Apple has decided to enforce this and hope Goggle follows the same business model. The community has already been collecting data, trying to figure out what the drop rates are anyway, so why is it such a big issue?

Would love to see the odds of 4 Star punisher in arena crystal.
0.0000001%

MattScott wrote: »

r3zonate wrote: »

I don't understand how anyone here could blame or condone Apple for doing this. Other countries already require games to disclose this information, and I'm sure Apple already provides the information for players in those areas. How is Apple gaining anything from this?

Games use the words "rare" and "chance" loosely, giving us no idea what the actual odds are of obtaining some of the items presented in deals and people can steer clear of certain deals that seem good until you find out the actual odds of getting the better items are 0.0001% instead of 10%

Some people don't have thousands of dollars to spend on a game, and feel cheated after spending only to have wasted their hard earned money getting the same items they would have after collecting them in-game.

I'm glad Apple has decided to enforce this and hope Goggle follows the same business model. The community has already been collecting data, trying to figure out what the drop rates are anyway, so why is it such a big issue?

Would love to see the odds of 4 Star punisher in arena crystal.
0.0000001%

My best guess is that is something between one in a thousand and one in two thousand. Or if you like between 0.05% and 0.1%

Another update and still no drop rates. Too bad