GOLD. Is it really an issue?

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  • RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Blax4ever wrote: »
    Kabam’s job as a developer isn’t to only keep 1% of their gamers happy, but they need to keep a critical mass interested, if that critical mass quits, then the 1% no longer have a game to play, I know you understand this.

    This is probably not the best argument to make, as the gold crunch is mostly affecting the 1%, not the 99%.

    Depends on how you look at it, but yeah it effects map 6 players in the greatest values.
  • RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Blax4ever wrote: »
    Kabam’s job as a developer isn’t to only keep 1% of their gamers happy, but they need to keep a critical mass interested, if that critical mass quits, then the 1% no longer have a game to play, I know you understand this.

    This is probably not the best argument to make, as the gold crunch is mostly affecting the 1%, not the 99%.

    Where are you getting your numbers? In my 30 man Alliance, nearly everyone is strapped for gold. We’re tier ~10 AW and run map 55522 AQ so I don’t see how people running map 6x5 or even 5x5 could be under any less strain. Even if they do have the time and patience to grind arena they are paying an opportunity cost and it’s not fair to ask everyone to pay it.

    Yes, his argument for you would be to play a lot more, unfortunately.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,379 ★★★★★
    Riegel wrote: »
    If the argument is 6* champs are cheaper well that's wrong. You can look at them as cheaper for the strength value of the champ which is a different argument. My argument has always been total cost. If you say just level 6* instead of 5* and save the gold, then you are basically saying all the lesser rarities are dead content. I disagree with having to bypass all my 5* to save a little gold.

    If the argument is map 6 is cost prohibitive then yeah I agree. I could leave my alliance join one doing map 3 - 5 continue my same gold grind, make a ton of gold, rank everything I want until I run out of catalyst resources, and have to join a top tier alliance again. Then, I have to find an alliance with an open spot which will be extremely hard now with AW seasons. I disagree with having to do this.

    If the argument is just rank up slower then fine you are ok with everything as it is now. I just don't agree.

    I never argued that 6*s are cheaper.
  • RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    So, after arguing for the longest time that T1A was a shortage, and the typical pro-Kabam people antagonizing the situation, it was determined that the only way to have an amply stash of T1A, is just not to rank people. So, I've stopped ranking people, and now have 12 T1A in the stash.

    Now, the concept of 'Gold Shortage' appears to have reached the masses. And, admittedly, I am part of the crowd that has a shortage of gold.

    I never sit on empty energy. Ever.
    I complete all EQ, all difficulties, full explore.
    I compete in every arena. 2M 4* basic, 5M 4* Featured, 10.5M 5* Featured

    Takes ALOT out of me.

    Alliance donations are 320K Gold, 60K Bchips Weekly.

    I am perpetually poor. I've level 2x 6*, which has taken nearly 3M. I've levelled multiple 5* to 5R1. I don't dare rank them more than that. Now that I've managed to save T1A by ranking nobody, I am now at my next stoppage - gold.

    So... ultimately, I think the game just doesn't want me to rank or progress. Which, ultimately, is fine. I'll be finishing this season, getting 5x 5* rolls, another 6* roll, and be closer to another R5. And have more T4C then I could ever hope to actually use.

    Not sure what else I can do to get gold. But I needs it!

    Probably have someone suggest "Change alliances". *Shrug*

    Just thought I'd share.

    You sir, are in almost the exact position as I am. I'll hopefully be rank 2 (at min rank 3 master) in aw at end of season, I'll have all those resources to hoard, because I just can't add that many more hours to arena in order to spend them.
  • RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    Riegel wrote: »
    If the argument is 6* champs are cheaper well that's wrong. You can look at them as cheaper for the strength value of the champ which is a different argument. My argument has always been total cost. If you say just level 6* instead of 5* and save the gold, then you are basically saying all the lesser rarities are dead content. I disagree with having to bypass all my 5* to save a little gold.

    If the argument is map 6 is cost prohibitive then yeah I agree. I could leave my alliance join one doing map 3 - 5 continue my same gold grind, make a ton of gold, rank everything I want until I run out of catalyst resources, and have to join a top tier alliance again. Then, I have to find an alliance with an open spot which will be extremely hard now with AW seasons. I disagree with having to do this.

    If the argument is just rank up slower then fine you are ok with everything as it is now. I just don't agree.

    I never argued that 6*s are cheaper.

    I never said you did. This post wasn't pointed at you or anyone, but was a collection of some of the arguments in the thread as a whole.
  • DaMunkDaMunk Posts: 1,874 ★★★★
    Id say for the most part you either have a fair amount of gold or hardly any. It depends on where you are at in the game and how you play.
    If you are running map 5 or less you should have plenty of gold if you regularly hit milestones in the 4* arenas. It may take a while but it will happen. People wanting to progress at the game should be doing those anyway.
    Map 6 is an entirely different animal though. I get OP point about concerns over a map7. When it comes to AQ something has to be a limiting factor. At this point many alliances are capable of 6×5. So not only is it a prestige race it's also a donation race. Map 7 might just be a donation race...hard to say. I'd probably be more open to reducing the cost of map 6 than I would be to a sharp increase in gold.
  • Blax4everBlax4ever Posts: 683 ★★★
    @_ASDF_

    They might me trying to destroy the game so they can stop playing it and get their lives back.
  • RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    edited March 2018
    _ASDF_ wrote: »
    I don’t understand the feverish anger towards increasing gold. Also why people haven’t found something else to do in life than argue against the idea. the rarest items are T4CCs and will always bottleneck progress. Those that have no life, grind arena to support Map6, will never have a gold problem, they have to grind and grind and grind to afford map 6. They’re only bottleneck will be champs to rank up. All the gold haters don’t have a leg to stand on and really are just trolling. I’m not going to add a 100k to my account suddenly in a month just because I have more gold. I’ll just be able to spend less time banging my head against the arena. As will all others short on gold. @GroundedWisdom is always going to argue for the status quo, he does in EVERY thread and @Riegel will keep on trolling, hoping to hold down other players. Might as well close the thread.

    What? You know I made this thread asking for more gold right? How am I trolling?
  • RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    edited March 2018
    DaMunk wrote: »
    Id say for the most part you either have a fair amount of gold or hardly any. It depends on where you are at in the game and how you play.
    If you are running map 5 or less you should have plenty of gold if you regularly hit milestones in the 4* arenas. It may take a while but it will happen. People wanting to progress at the game should be doing those anyway.
    Map 6 is an entirely different animal though. I get OP point about concerns over a map7. When it comes to AQ something has to be a limiting factor. At this point many alliances are capable of 6×5. So not only is it a prestige race it's also a donation race. Map 7 might just be a donation race...hard to say. I'd probably be more open to reducing the cost of map 6 than I would be to a sharp increase in gold.

    One suggestion I put forth was to have Map 6 provide exploration rewards like map 5 does.
  • RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    _ASDF_ wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    _ASDF_ wrote: »
    I don’t understand the feverish anger towards increasing gold. Also why people haven’t found something else to do in life than argue against the idea. the rarest items are T4CCs and will always bottleneck progress. Those that have no life, grind arena to support Map6, will never have a gold problem, they have to grind and grind and grind to afford map 6. They’re only bottleneck will be champs to rank up. All the gold haters don’t have a leg to stand on and really are just trolling. I’m not going to add a 100k to my account suddenly in a month just because I have more gold. I’ll just be able to spend less time banging my head against the arena. As will all others short on gold. @GroundedWisdom is always going to argue for the status quo, he does in EVERY thread and @Riegel will keep on trolling, hoping to hold down other players. Might as well close the thread.

    What? You know I made this thread asking for more gold right?

    Thought you see someone else I guess.

    I see you edited this post. I'll assume there was a misunderstanding. I want to prop everyone up not hold anyone down.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,379 ★★★★★
    That's not an apt analogy. Quite extreme, actually. Comparing that to having to Grind for Gold is pretty dramatic and dark.
  • RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,088 ★★★★
    I posted an apt analogy about the unjust nature of slavery and animal abuse and they both got deleted. My intent was not to offend anybody but instead to open their minds to the idea that an unjust situation forced upon everybody is not the same as justice for everybody. I apologize to anybody with fragile ears who were hurt by the words “slave”or “beaten dog.”

    It is a strange analogy, but at least we know Kabam is in here reading and deleting comments instead of responding and being transparent. Unfortunate.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,379 ★★★★★
    That's not an apt analogy. Quite extreme, actually. Comparing that to having to Grind for Gold is pretty dramatic and dark.

    Then I suppose it was worth deleting. Extreme, dramatic, and dark statement, have no place in a public debate.

    I'm all for a good analogy, but it may have been a bit far. Lol.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 13,271 Guardian
    Blax4ever wrote: »
    @DNA3000

    It more acutely effects the people are highest levels, but as I said i went broke 3 times and I’m far from being in the 1% of players. Had I not ranked up my champs I would not have a roster to do the arenas with. My mistake was in how I started the game when I my base rating was low this was the time to grind the arena and build gold and Battle chips I knew quite a number of players who were having issues with gold before the explosion of 5* champs and I would say about half of the people who think they have enough gold don’t.

    If you are reading this and you have less than 7M in gold, you don’t have enough. Absent one of those early gold realms you will have to hit as many milestones as possible every single week for at least 3-4 months without ranking up. 1M Battle chips will get you 2M in gold

    I was being a bit metaphorical, but the gold crunch isn't specifically affecting the *top* any percent of players, it is affecting a small percentage of them that aren't necessarily compacted at the literal top. Its really primarily a problem for players ranking up multiple 5* champions, which is probably less than 20% of all players. Of them, it is only affecting players that a) don't grind arena enough or burn resources inefficiently, or b) rank more indiscriminately. I suspect that number is in fact between 1% and 5% of all players that play the game.

    Anyone in the top 20% of players could be affected, but most of them are likely not.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 13,271 Guardian
    _ASDF_ wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Blax4ever wrote: »
    @DNA3000

    It more acutely effects the people are highest levels, but as I said i went broke 3 times and I’m far from being in the 1% of players. Had I not ranked up my champs I would not have a roster to do the arenas with. My mistake was in how I started the game when I my base rating was low this was the time to grind the arena and build gold and Battle chips I knew quite a number of players who were having issues with gold before the explosion of 5* champs and I would say about half of the people who think they have enough gold don’t.

    If you are reading this and you have less than 7M in gold, you don’t have enough. Absent one of those early gold realms you will have to hit as many milestones as possible every single week for at least 3-4 months without ranking up. 1M Battle chips will get you 2M in gold

    I was being a bit metaphorical, but the gold crunch isn't specifically affecting the *top* any percent of players, it is affecting a small percentage of them that aren't necessarily compacted at the literal top. Its really primarily a problem for players ranking up multiple 5* champions, which is probably less than 20% of all players. Of them, it is only affecting players that a) don't grind arena enough or burn resources inefficiently, or b) rank more indiscriminately. I suspect that number is in fact between 1% and 5% of all players that play the game.

    Anyone in the top 20% of players could be affected, but most of them are likely not.

    Obviously the top 20% aren’t effected, they’re the top because they’ve committed hours a day to grinding to maintain their in game lifestyle. Most are doing map 6, some map 5 and still more chasing prestige.

    Numerically speaking, that's unlikely. There are probably either about or over a million players in the game now (we know there were well over a million accounts when Kabam released statistics about Rocket's button) which makes the top 20% of players somewhere near or over 200k players. Even assuming many alliances are not full and many top 20% players are not in an alliance or in an alliance much lower than their own player level that still represents a number over 5000 alliances worth of players. There are fewer alliances in the expert bracket than that. Outside the expert bracket you're more likely to be out of rank up catalysts than gold.

    My guess is only the top 1000 alliances or fewer are doing map 6 with any frequency and that's at most 30k players. At best, the map 6 players are less than 3% of all players.
  • DoomDoomDoomDoom Posts: 6
    Riegel wrote: »
    There have been a lot of posts on gold recently. I wanted to make a post that answers the question is gold a problem in MCOC. Let's get into it.

    Gold has recently become a huge topic in MCOC and it mainly is due to increasing cost to rank up champs that simply cost more to rank/level up. Is this the only issue? NO. Lets looks at the whole picture.

    Champion level and rank up costs:
    2* total cost ~54,000 gold to Level ---- 14,000 gold to Rank ---- 68,000 gold total
    3* total cost ~185,000 gold to Level --- 69,000 gold to Rank ---- 254,000 gold total (3.7x the cost of a 2*)
    4* total cost ~565,000 gold to Level --- 275,000 gold to Rank---- 840,000 gold total (3.3x the cost of a 3*)
    5* total cost ~1,600,000 gold to Level - 1,357,000 gold to Rank- 2,957,000 gold total (3.5x the cost of a 4*)
    6* total cost ~548,000 gold to Level 1-25 Rank 1. (529,173 gold to rank from R1 to R2.)

    Aq map cost weekly:
    Map 1 Cost 0 gold
    Map 2 Cost 0 gold
    Map 3 Cost 0 gold
    Map 4 Cost ???
    Map 5 Cost 134,000 gold & 42,000 BC (Exploration rewards: 97,500 gold & 33,375 BC)
    Map 5 actual cost: 36,500 gold & 8625 BC
    Map 6 Cost 500,000 gold & 83,500 BC (NO EXPLORATION REWARDS)
    Map 6 actual cost: 500,000 gold & 83,500 BC

    As you can see the cost of progression has skyrocketed, and there has been nothing to alleviate the gold struggle. It's only now coming to focus because of the cost of rank ups, but it would have got to this point with out 6*'s coming to the contest as well. GOLD IS AN ISSUE.

    No change has ever been made to gold since I started playing MCOC ~2.5 years ago. The gold crystal is still a joke, BC don't reward enough gold to make them worth while. donation wise it is better for me to donate someone elses BC in exchange for gold because I'll get more gold that way than opening the BC's themselves. Map 6 needs to have exploration rewards to allow top players to have a life, and alleviate some cost. Please don't add a map 7 with increased costs and no exploration rewards I'm dying here as is...

    I don't mind grinding I do ~300 rounds per arena, but I'm still not keeping up. @Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Wolf please halp. Increase gold gain somewhere I don't care where.

    And Kabam be like:
    We understand your concern but currently we don't have any plans on bringing the gold realm, but here is one gold crystal with 2400 gold which will help you max out your champs. Stay tuned for more updates. :)
  • Blax4everBlax4ever Posts: 683 ★★★
    Tnkiller wrote: »
    The lack of gold in this game is too real... I just completed the 5* bishop arena placeing 15th, that was 46 million points. After spinning all of the battlechips I was only given enough gold to take him up to rank 2. Since then I've been saving gold from everything else in the game(no time for arena at the moment, life doesn't allow) and I just final collected enough to max him out at rank 3. At this rate with alliance donation, it will take weeks to be able to rank him up to rank 4.

    Something seriously needs to be done, after playing arena for 3 days straight and not getting enough gold to rank up the champion you just grinded for is ridiculous..

    Anyone who says gold isn't an issue either has no life or truly isn't an end game play that has 5 and 6*s to rank up

    Man you better git in dat arena and grind like a Russian stripper, you’re just lazy, what you could only score 46M one guy did 100M and even had time to use the bathroom.

    According to some very knowledgeable players only about 50 people are having gold issues.

    All kidding aside, 46M is impressive great job.
  • DaMunkDaMunk Posts: 1,874 ★★★★
    I think part of the problem is some people are actually progressing much faster than we used to. A newer player can start getting 4 and 5* at a rate that was unheard of when a lot of us joined. I have a very deep roster and most pulls are dupes, less so from 5* but common. I get a significant amount of gold from selling ISO. That said I got a lot of champs and shards from...arena. so it still sort of comes back around to arena and putting in time. The game was meant to take years to progress.

    I'm aware gold is an issue for some people. There's different ways people are gold poor.

    1. People don't grind. Either because they don't want to or don't have time. I have no sympathy for ones that don't want to. Arena is the best way to get in game currencies...thats how the game was designed. Everyone else has to. For people that are busy I'm sorry but you're going to progress slower.
    2. We have people that do grind but are broke because of a growing roster. In time your gold will catch up. It takes a long time but you'll get there. You just have to be picky on your rank ups every so often.
    3. Map 6. To me that's the tough one. If your constantly running map 6 you're in the top few percent. I have no clue if kabam meant for AQ to be that cost prohibitive, I suspect it was meant that way but don't know to what extent. If they did it's doubtful they'll change it anytime soon. Constantly running map 6 is meant to be difficult or everyone would do it. I can see how doing 6×5 would eat up every bit of gold and an enormous amount of time grinding for it.
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