Is this the direction of the game Kabam should be heading to?

Couple points. Sentinels don't have it all, and Cage has always been Immune to Bleed. That's actually the balance of it. Some Champs are Immune to others. No Champ is completely unstoppable. The game is constantly shifting.

charaderdude2

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Couple points. Sentinels don't have it all, and Cage has always been Immune to Bleed. That's actually the balance of it. Some Champs are Immune to others. No Champ is completely unstoppable. The game is constantly shifting.

Studies have shown...hasnt been conducted yet,although,You read Ultron's description,OP?That's where complexity's at.

Edit:Ultron OG'S description

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Couple points. Sentinels don't have it all, and Cage has always been Immune to Bleed. That's actually the balance of it. Some Champs are Immune to others. No Champ is completely unstoppable. The game is constantly shifting.

It is called an exaggeration, it is not to be taken literally. Sentinels have a lot of abilities, too much if you ask me and need a nerf. Sentinel is just one example. Tbh, all God-Tier champions need a nerf if you ask me., Hyperion being the first (and yes, I have one so I know a nerf would hurt me to).

It is not balanced if a champion breaks the class system. Imagine a cosmic champions who is immune to neutralise. Or a regenerating mutant immune to heal block. That is not balanced, that is broken.

charaderdude2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Couple points. Sentinels don't have it all, and Cage has always been Immune to Bleed. That's actually the balance of it. Some Champs are Immune to others. No Champ is completely unstoppable. The game is constantly shifting.

Studies have shown...hasnt been conducted yet,although,You read Ultron's description,OP?That's where complexity's at.

Ultron is another example of a champion having too much abilities.

Colonaut123 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Couple points. Sentinels don't have it all, and Cage has always been Immune to Bleed. That's actually the balance of it. Some Champs are Immune to others. No Champ is completely unstoppable. The game is constantly shifting.

It is called an exaggeration, it is not to be taken literally. Sentinels have a lot of abilities, too much if you ask me and need a nerf. Sentinel is just one example. Tbh, all God-Tier champions need a nerf if you ask me., Hyperion being the first (and yes, I have one so I know a nerf would hurt me to).

It is not balanced if a champion breaks the class system. Imagine a cosmic champions who is immune to neutralise. Or a regenerating mutant immune to heal block. That is not balanced, that is broken.

Some are stronger than others in some areas. There is balance. Balance isn't the same as making all Champs equal.

Having a scale and a complexity is one of the things I love about this game. It's what sets it apart from Fighting Games like Tekken and MK.

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Colonaut123 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Couple points. Sentinels don't have it all, and Cage has always been Immune to Bleed. That's actually the balance of it. Some Champs are Immune to others. No Champ is completely unstoppable. The game is constantly shifting.

It is called an exaggeration, it is not to be taken literally. Sentinels have a lot of abilities, too much if you ask me and need a nerf. Sentinel is just one example. Tbh, all God-Tier champions need a nerf if you ask me., Hyperion being the first (and yes, I have one so I know a nerf would hurt me to).

It is not balanced if a champion breaks the class system. Imagine a cosmic champions who is immune to neutralise. Or a regenerating mutant immune to heal block. That is not balanced, that is broken.

Some are stronger than others in some areas. There is balance. Balance isn't the same as making all Champs equal.

You're straw manning here. I never stated that all champions should be equal. I said that Kabam should respect the class system and not make any science champion bleed immune. I also said that one champion should have a lot of abilities. I'd rather have that champions focus on a couple and be very good at those, like Drax.

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Having a scale and a complexity is one of the things I love about this game. It's what sets it apart from Fighting Games like Tekken and MK.

I understand that, but complexity is bad for new players. You have to think like a newbie. Some champions are overwhelming. MCOC is a young game, shutting out new players is not a good business plan. MCOC will always need simple but effective champions AND complicated and effective champions. It will need champions for different modes of playing: aggressive, defensive, tactical, etc. I do not believe the game is saturated, there is still room for variation and combination. There is still unexplored territory in terms of buffs and debuffs.

I asked in here a long time ago if there was a planned "power plateau" and got no answer. The trend toward very specific synergies that work only on a specific champ and not the entire squad...the poor drops (easily fixed) the disappearance of ambushes except in older content, the near meaningless box ratings, the stretching of paths to bleed us of energy. Rediculously OP champs that the top gets first and then we get just before they are nerfed. The blatant favoritism toward upper tier players and the deference to what they demand...poor planning for growth...fumbling along to find new content with the help of only top alliance players...who are like politicians making decisions about public schools even though they never set foot in one...long ago there was hope for measured even growth at all levels. When the top alliances started garnering so many t4cc way back at the beginning of the Aqs kabam should have started feeding out t4cc shards right then. They allowed one segment of the game to take off so far ahead of the rest that it has left them nowhere much to go and the rest of us pissed and burned out...had kabam controlled that gap better...but...it is what it is now...20/20 hind sight!

General_Vis

I quite like both kind of champs. I love the simplicity of characters like Black Panther, Iron Fist, Wolverine etc. that you can just pick up and play with but then again I also like characters with various skill sets like Ghost Rider who you can strategise with.

I don’t think we’ll see many of the simplistic characters in future and if Kabam released an equivalent of someone like Drax now the general consensus would be ‘is that it?’

On the flip side I’ve been playing a while now so have got used to abilities gradually evolving. Imagine starting the game now and your first pull is Taskmaster. Your head would explode.

Colonaut123 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Colonaut123 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Couple points. Sentinels don't have it all, and Cage has always been Immune to Bleed. That's actually the balance of it. Some Champs are Immune to others. No Champ is completely unstoppable. The game is constantly shifting.

It is called an exaggeration, it is not to be taken literally. Sentinels have a lot of abilities, too much if you ask me and need a nerf. Sentinel is just one example. Tbh, all God-Tier champions need a nerf if you ask me., Hyperion being the first (and yes, I have one so I know a nerf would hurt me to).

It is not balanced if a champion breaks the class system. Imagine a cosmic champions who is immune to neutralise. Or a regenerating mutant immune to heal block. That is not balanced, that is broken.

Some are stronger than others in some areas. There is balance. Balance isn't the same as making all Champs equal.

I also said that one champion should have a lot of abilities.

*Shouldn't, to be clear. My fault.

PrimeSaviour_27

I agree they are making the new champs more and more complex. This can be a positive or negative. It adds depth to new champions and makes it more interesting than MLLLM parry MLLLM ect ect. Only negative I can see is it can be a bit overwhelming when someone 1st pulls them, but a little research and there golden.

Also some new champs haven’t all been made op, look at sentry even after his buff he’s not op. Carnage is garbage, Thor ragnarok is ok, taskmaster is good once dupped. So I believe it’s been a mixed bag to be honest.

They seem to be reworking that dead pile of champs as you say. Rhulk and Luke use to be on that pile, now there actually quite sort after. They are also quite simple to use and would be a great pull for new players.

I’ll ignore your incorrect comments on Luke 😂. He’s a great example of what kabam needs to do and that’s refresh the old champs. I believe this and bugs should be kabams main priority.

Rap wrote: »

I asked in here a long time ago if there was a planned "power plateau" and got no answer. The trend toward very specific synergies that work only on a specific champ and not the entire squad...the poor drops (easily fixed) the disappearance of ambushes except in older content, the near meaningless box ratings, the stretching of paths to bleed us of energy. Rediculously OP champs that the top gets first and then we get just before they are nerfed. The blatant favoritism toward upper tier players and the deference to what they demand...poor planning for growth...fumbling along to find new content with the help of only top alliance players...who are like politicians making decisions about public schools even though they never set foot in one...long ago there was hope for measured even growth at all levels. When the top alliances started garnering so many t4cc way back at the beginning of the Aqs kabam should have started feeding out t4cc shards right then. They allowed one segment of the game to take off so far ahead of the rest that it has left them nowhere much to go and the rest of us pissed and burned out...had kabam controlled that gap better...but...it is what it is now...20/20 hind sight!

Amen to that!

General_Vis wrote: »

I quite like both kind of champs. I love the simplicity of characters like Black Panther, Iron Fist, Wolverine etc. that you can just pick up and play with but then again I also like characters with various skill sets like Ghost Rider who you can strategise with.

I don’t think we’ll see many of the simplistic characters in future and if Kabam released an equivalent of someone like Drax now the general consensus would be ‘is that it?’

On the flip side I’ve been playing a while now so have got used to abilities gradually evolving. Imagine starting the game now and your first pull is Taskmaster. Your head would explode.

It is my fear that simple champions will not be able to compete anymore if this direction is kept.

I think that is a shame. Simplicity also has its beauty. They are easily deployable and reliable. I think players are becoming like drug addicts: always wanting more champions, more powers, more abilities. More, more, more! That is the basic definition of power creep.

My head still exploded when I got my Taskmaster.

Colonaut123 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Colonaut123 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Couple points. Sentinels don't have it all, and Cage has always been Immune to Bleed. That's actually the balance of it. Some Champs are Immune to others. No Champ is completely unstoppable. The game is constantly shifting.

It is called an exaggeration, it is not to be taken literally. Sentinels have a lot of abilities, too much if you ask me and need a nerf. Sentinel is just one example. Tbh, all God-Tier champions need a nerf if you ask me., Hyperion being the first (and yes, I have one so I know a nerf would hurt me to).

It is not balanced if a champion breaks the class system. Imagine a cosmic champions who is immune to neutralise. Or a regenerating mutant immune to heal block. That is not balanced, that is broken.

Some are stronger than others in some areas. There is balance. Balance isn't the same as making all Champs equal.

You're straw manning here. I never stated that all champions should be equal. I said that Kabam should respect the class system and not make any science champion bleed immune. I also said that one champion should have a lot of abilities. I'd rather have that champions focus on a couple and be very good at those, like Drax.

Then the game wouldn't evolve. Drax is decent, but the game has grown since his prime. Not exactly sure what you mean by true to their Class. There's no reason in my mind why a Science Champ should be vulnerable to Bleed by nature.

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Colonaut123 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Colonaut123 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Couple points. Sentinels don't have it all, and Cage has always been Immune to Bleed. That's actually the balance of it. Some Champs are Immune to others. No Champ is completely unstoppable. The game is constantly shifting.

It is called an exaggeration, it is not to be taken literally. Sentinels have a lot of abilities, too much if you ask me and need a nerf. Sentinel is just one example. Tbh, all God-Tier champions need a nerf if you ask me., Hyperion being the first (and yes, I have one so I know a nerf would hurt me to).

It is not balanced if a champion breaks the class system. Imagine a cosmic champions who is immune to neutralise. Or a regenerating mutant immune to heal block. That is not balanced, that is broken.

Some are stronger than others in some areas. There is balance. Balance isn't the same as making all Champs equal.

You're straw manning here. I never stated that all champions should be equal. I said that Kabam should respect the class system and not make any science champion bleed immune. I also said that one champion should have a lot of abilities. I'd rather have that champions focus on a couple and be very good at those, like Drax.

Then the game wouldn't evolve. Drax is decent, but the game has grown since his prime. Not exactly sure what you mean by true to their Class. There's no reason in my mind why a Science Champ should be vulnerable to Bleed by nature.

I think you're conceptualisation of evolution is entirely different than mine. I don't think champions should have five or more different abilities, just one, two or three which they are good at. Drax is good at Fury and Bleed. Hulk is good at Fury and damage-boosting. Wolverine is good at regeneration and Bleed. Mathematically, the combinations are endless. But a champion like Hyperion that can incinerate, build-up Fury with no cost, increase power gain, armour break,... It is way to easy to boost Hyperion's damage and then finish it off with Sp3.

I think you should pay more attention to the inlog screens and read what it states, such as: "Frequent Bleed damage from Skill Champions is effective against the high base attributes of Science Champions."

The slower release schedule is another thing that should have been implemented a long time ago. Had the releases of champs been more along the current pace with 4 arenas for each champ then we actually might not be seeing six stars now.

And some of our favorite champs wouldnt be "has beens"

Yeah that's not at all the case. They're talking about the next 2-7 years. Certainly until 2020. The amount of times people have counted this game out is hilarious. There will always be people who wonder about the state of the game. It's not going anywhere.

Primmer79

@Colonaut123 I, personally, am under the impression that one of the reasons certain champs have not been released at the next tier is to cut down on champs so it's not absurd. There's a list of not available 5* that are available as 4*, and I bet there will be a few 5* that aren't available as 6*.

I don't understand your point that if they're a science champ, they can't be immune to bleed. Before I argue that, I'd like some of your reasoning. I don't see it as part of the 'science class' to be vulnerable to bleed, so maybe you can help me out.

If you look back at some of these new champs, some are complicated, some are simple, some are useless, some have complicated abilities but don't change the fighting style, some have straightforward abilities but require manipulating your fighting style. I like this, as it irks me when people complain they can't just pick up a champion and fight. I like variety in my champions and fighting styles. A few examples:

Hyperion's abilities flew over my head for awhile (while on attack). Everyone said he was so good, and I wasn't getting the damage output people claimed. Then I connected that I need to heavy first, and get some furies going. This fighting style is fairly close to how one maximizes AA. Quake is very straight forward in the sense its just hold heavy and you'll evade the first hit while doing damage. but more can be done to maximize how she works. I won't even get into GR. Compare with Hulk, Drax where its literally just smash. and to an extent, SL, where its just don't get hit.

The benefit to some of the complicated champs, is nodes can be built around them. There are not too many nodes that counter Hulk/drax/SL, and the ones that do are safeguard, and some others that make many champs useless, or tough to use. Unique champs give fun workarounds of nodes, while also allowing certain nodes to utterly destroy them.

The_Grandmaster

So much to read so forgive me if this was already said but, champs that have lots of abilities like Ultron and Sentinel tend to have weak ones. For instance Ultron's bleed is a lot weaker than a champ like BP that only has bleed. Same goes for Ultron's armor up, it is so much weaker than most any other Tech champ with Armor Up

RedBaron99

Colonaut123 wrote: »

Is this all the direction of the game Kabam should be heading to? A never ending arms race between champions? A power and complexity creep? And an ever growing pile of dead champions? Am I the only one having these concerns?

Whilst I am not Kabam's biggest fan on most things (such as the lack of transparency, lack of consistency, endless bugs, etc.) it is just a feature of games like this to continually shift the goal posts - it's what keeps people coming back.

In essence it comes down to creating demand for something; be it a champion or upgrade material in this game, a new piece of armour/weapon in another, or unlocking a new ability/power in something else.

Taking Blade for example as he's FotM (my timeline may be a little out, but you get the gist of it):

Kabam introduces Mystic Dispersion
Kabam reworks Magik
Kabam introduces Mordo and Dormammu
Players struggle, underlying demand for an 'easy' solution increases
Kabam introduces Blade
Everyone gets very excited about getting Blade, there are extra rounds of Blade crystals and a lot of hype
...
...
Kabam introduce Sentinels
[no doubt new masteries are on their way]
Demand for new solution increases...
and so on
and so on
ad nauseum

Unfortunately, MCOC is overly focused on the end-game user so for new starters and even medium-term players, the pace of change will feel horrendous. If it's any consolation, try taking a long-term view on things and hoard materials and units. If you really don't enjoy it, consider quitting - it's just a game after all.

Jimmy_Utah83

Colonaut123 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Colonaut123 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Colonaut123 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Couple points. Sentinels don't have it all, and Cage has always been Immune to Bleed. That's actually the balance of it. Some Champs are Immune to others. No Champ is completely unstoppable. The game is constantly shifting.

It is called an exaggeration, it is not to be taken literally. Sentinels have a lot of abilities, too much if you ask me and need a nerf. Sentinel is just one example. Tbh, all God-Tier champions need a nerf if you ask me., Hyperion being the first (and yes, I have one so I know a nerf would hurt me to).

It is not balanced if a champion breaks the class system. Imagine a cosmic champions who is immune to neutralise. Or a regenerating mutant immune to heal block. That is not balanced, that is broken.

Some are stronger than others in some areas. There is balance. Balance isn't the same as making all Champs equal.

You're straw manning here. I never stated that all champions should be equal. I said that Kabam should respect the class system and not make any science champion bleed immune. I also said that one champion should have a lot of abilities. I'd rather have that champions focus on a couple and be very good at those, like Drax.

Then the game wouldn't evolve. Drax is decent, but the game has grown since his prime. Not exactly sure what you mean by true to their Class. There's no reason in my mind why a Science Champ should be vulnerable to Bleed by nature.

I think you're conceptualisation of evolution is entirely different than mine. I don't think champions should have five or more different abilities, just one, two or three which they are good at. Drax is good at Fury and Bleed. Hulk is good at Fury and damage-boosting. Wolverine is good at regeneration and Bleed. Mathematically, the combinations are endless. But a champion like Hyperion that can incinerate, build-up Fury with no cost, increase power gain, armour break,... It is way to easy to boost Hyperion's damage and then finish it off with Sp3.

I think you should pay more attention to the inlog screens and read what it states, such as: "Frequent Bleed damage from Skill Champions is effective against the high base attributes of Science Champions."

Hyperion you need to land a heavy attack to build fury. That could lead to a mis timed parry, fury isn’t guaranteed to proc every time and is very hard to do against stun immune. W/o fury Hyperion really doesn’t hit hard unless you wait for his charges to build up by getting full power.

colbyscipio987

Shut down MCOC, so people can live on without anger and hatred of game.

CapWW2

How about releasing just 1 new champion every 2 months. The list of champions is ridiculous long. Why have 300+ different champions characters in a game?

Legendsend

Colonaut123 wrote: »

I seriously doubt the direction of this game is heading to is the right one.

Every addition of a new champion to the game is a zero-sum game, killing off another champion instead. The pile of older champions needing a rework is ever growing. It is two steps forward and three steps backward.

Every champion that is added to the game is more powerful and more complex than the previous. Sentinel is for me the epitome: boosting damage, boosting armour, boosting critical resistance, immunity to bleed & poison, shock DoT, becoming Unstoppable, heal block, armour break, incinerate,... I'm probably forgetting some. Is it really necessary for one champion to have it all? When is it enough?

The complexity is nice for older players, but I imagine a new player reading the description of Sentinel and braincrashing. Sentinel is not even the most complex one. What is wrong with simple but decent champions like Black Panther, Hulk or Drax? Any game needs a balance between catering to new and old players, but Kabam decides to cater to old players now. That is deadly for a game that is relatively young like MCOC.

The result of all of this that every champion that gets a rework needs to outclass, counter or be on equal footing with the newer powerful and complex champions. Luke Cage is a good example, his rework made him immune to bleed. This broke the class (dis)advantage system, as skill champions supposes to have an edge over science champions due their bleed damage. Kabam decided to ignore the pillar of this game. What is the future of the class system?

Talking about a nerf angers players who have those overpowered and broken champions. Immediately they demand a rank down ticket, as if the nerf is the end of the world. They have total no regard for game balance, only for their own gain. Après nous le déluge mentality. Worst of all, Kabam trembles in fear for those players. And thus the game becomes more broken with every month.

Is this all the direction of the game Kabam should be heading to? A never ending arms race between champions? A power and complexity creep? And an ever growing pile of dead champions? Am I the only one having these concerns?

Discuss.

Umm... your like cage comment was illogical unfortunately... Luke Cage does not bleed... if you know the character then you know this...his skin is impenetrable... he was always this way

Legendsend

I think champs should be made how they are supposed to be made... If a champ has a power or immunity then it should apply... If a champ can't do something they shouldn't be able to... In this case there will still always be an advantage and disadvantage and it will follow the line as it should

The game CAN and probably will carry on. As i posted somewhere else. The future players won't stick around. I know a lot of people who started the game, and after a couple of months or less, left to play less focus intensive games. People at the top will do what they have been doing...Funding this game...but no players competing (after what? Only 30 days) in the same pool as guys with 300 champs in their roster are gonna think "wow! Someday that could be me!" It is going to be a game for those here first and longest and willing to spend...until they tire completely of paying people to play for them...

They have tried to make this like a competitve console game, but console games have other areas and other routines for playing with and against specific friends, playing alone and still being able to complete the story lines...here we are all dragged into the "competition" but not given the things to be "competitive" in an equitable manner so bellow a certain point progress is way too slow and many will not stay (have not stayed) to reach the end of the story quest (such as they are).