that would be someone that played by the rules taking spoils, and someone that cheated not getting spoils
No, it would be double retribution. They can't reasonably assume you would have won, and if they're removing War Rating AND Points, people will also be going up in positions, from doing the right thing. What the suggestion would result in is benefitting from someone else's mistakes. A bit greedy, IMO.
It shouldn't matter. You should't be able to cheat and get a victory. If you cheat in any way you should lose. The team that didn't cheat should be given the win by default.
Weather or not a team would have lost had the cheating team not cheated is immaterial, because they cheated.
If they're not keeping the Points or the Rating, then that's not a victory. What you're saying is they should give you the Rewards by default because they cheated, and remove spoils on top of that. Whether you would win or not is not irrelevant. You only deserve Rewards if you win and win fairly. Either way you spell it out, it's benefitting from someone else breaking the rules.
Huh? You can't win fairly if someone is cheating. You understand this right?
They also can't assume you would have won whether they played fairly or not. They're removing Rating and Points, which means the people playing by the rules will rise in standings. That's enough. Anything on top of that is just creating an equally-unfair situation.
They don't have to assume you would've won. When the winner is disqualified in practically everything the next participant is awarded the victory not based on an assumption of what would have happened but because they were the next best after the disqualified party. It's not hard.
I just don't get how people are accusing others of piloting because they don't die as much as they think they should. They made boosts available that are OP I kill a rank 4 spidy mini every war with full bonus because i use 3/4 boosts so I don't die that easy. Also with the boost include organized moving with your team mates because they only last a short amount of time so you don't throw away 30 units per boost unless purchase from loyalty store. If your planning on winning with hope the other alliance won't finish that is a faulty game plan.
Some people assume that good alliances are cheating because they don't understand good, but that's not what this thread is about.
that would be someone that played by the rules taking spoils, and someone that cheated not getting spoils
No, it would be double retribution. They can't reasonably assume you would have won, and if they're removing War Rating AND Points, people will also be going up in positions, from doing the right thing. What the suggestion would result in is benefitting from someone else's mistakes. A bit greedy, IMO.
It shouldn't matter. You should't be able to cheat and get a victory. If you cheat in any way you should lose. The team that didn't cheat should be given the win by default.
Weather or not a team would have lost had the cheating team not cheated is immaterial, because they cheated.
If they're not keeping the Points or the Rating, then that's not a victory. What you're saying is they should give you the Rewards by default because they cheated, and remove spoils on top of that. Whether you would win or not is not irrelevant. You only deserve Rewards if you win and win fairly. Either way you spell it out, it's benefitting from someone else breaking the rules.
Huh? You can't win fairly if someone is cheating. You understand this right?
They also can't assume you would have won whether they played fairly or not. They're removing Rating and Points, which means the people playing by the rules will rise in standings. That's enough. Anything on top of that is just creating an equally-unfair situation.
Then just remove all rewards for both sides in these circumstances
keep crying abut it. lets ban all master player, yes ban for life, and what do u think will happen, all master players put money to the game, a lot of money so do u think kabam is really going to do something abut it
well help us work this out then @weapon_x we are getting most of the threads terminated...no one is responding to PMs and support is sending out a default response. The treatment is beyond belief
Soooo... that does happen, people communicate on Line, to arrange when to fight, so players might boost up and take full advantage.
lol so naive of you...and how about when we have screen shots of the opposing alliance boasting of piloting? and in addition they get deducted -600 points from the AW rating and all of their win bonus points? Oh and demoted to gold category to very low levels of it? And now imagine you have faced that alliance twice in one week?
Why is anyone talking about what kabam thinks piloting looks like? They don't care about a 2hr long video of one account moving at a time. They have actual analytics to see who is piloting. The punishments are being handed out. Just report those you think are cheating and let kabam look to see if they need punished or not.
If you report an alliance that did not cheat they wont get punished.
Victims of cheating should be awarded something additional because they lost more than simply the victory bonus—there is also the opportunity cost associated with having run a war against someone who won by cheating. All of this talk about “we don’t know whether you would have won or not” is irrelevant in my opinion because we can’t know—the other side decided to violate the ToS in a way that permanently taints that particular war. As a matter of policy, I am more comfortable tilting the playing field toward the team that played fairly.
And I’m for far stiffer penalties than taking points away from cheaters. Shut down their AW matchmaking for a week the first time. Second time, two weeks. Third time, boot them for the season. That would make deciding on piloting a much riskier proposition.
Victims of cheating should be awarded something additional because they lost more than simply the victory bonus—there is also the opportunity cost associated with having run a war against someone who won by cheating. All of this talk about “we don’t know whether you would have won or not” is irrelevant in my opinion because we can’t know—the other side decided to violate the ToS in a way that permanently taints that particular war. As a matter of policy, I am more comfortable tilting the playing field toward the team that played fairly.
And I’m for far stiffer penalties than taking points away from cheaters. Shut down their AW matchmaking for a week the first time. Second time, two weeks. Third time, boot them for the season. That would make deciding on piloting a much riskier proposition.
Dr. Zola
Good to see someone agree a cheating team shouldn't be able to steal a victory bonus. I have been quite shocked people are making this, "we don't know if they would have won if the cheating team didn't cheat." argument.
imo piloting is the last issue we need to be fixed so now everytime peoples come accross an alliance that beat them they say it's piloting why not go and pilote you too ? !!! the truth is if u loose u loose dont bother try to win the next
Victims of cheating should be awarded something additional because they lost more than simply the victory bonus—there is also the opportunity cost associated with having run a war against someone who won by cheating. All of this talk about “we don’t know whether you would have won or not” is irrelevant in my opinion because we can’t know—the other side decided to violate the ToS in a way that permanently taints that particular war. As a matter of policy, I am more comfortable tilting the playing field toward the team that played fairly.
And I’m for far stiffer penalties than taking points away from cheaters. Shut down their AW matchmaking for a week the first time. Second time, two weeks. Third time, boot them for the season. That would make deciding on piloting a much riskier proposition.
Dr. Zola
Good to see someone agree a cheating team shouldn't be able to steal a victory bonus. I have been quite shocked people are making this, "we don't know if they would have won if the cheating team didn't cheat." argument.
Think stealing a victory bonus is bad? My alliance placed 10th overall in the 2017 gifting event. We literally had full blown fraud limit our legitimately earned rewards (at least 2 alliances). My faith is low, but its nice seeing the cheaters get knocked some way. I know this is 100% off topic, just throwing it out there to make you all feel a bit better :-)
I lmao when I see the last stand of cheaters comes down to "yeah bro? Well... What u gonna do without my money? If we aren't allowed to cheat, we won't be spending!"
Bahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha
imo piloting is the last issue we need to be fixed so now everytime peoples come accross an alliance that beat them they say it's piloting why not go and pilote you too ? !!! the truth is if u loose u loose dont bother try to win the next
All issues need fixed. This issue needed fixed and is being fixed. I don't really understand what you are saying. I will always try to win even if its vs. a modding or piloting alliance.
Victims of cheating should be awarded something additional because they lost more than simply the victory bonus—there is also the opportunity cost associated with having run a war against someone who won by cheating. All of this talk about “we don’t know whether you would have won or not” is irrelevant in my opinion because we can’t know—the other side decided to violate the ToS in a way that permanently taints that particular war. As a matter of policy, I am more comfortable tilting the playing field toward the team that played fairly.
And I’m for far stiffer penalties than taking points away from cheaters. Shut down their AW matchmaking for a week the first time. Second time, two weeks. Third time, boot them for the season. That would make deciding on piloting a much riskier proposition.
Dr. Zola
Good to see someone agree a cheating team shouldn't be able to steal a victory bonus. I have been quite shocked people are making this, "we don't know if they would have won if the cheating team didn't cheat." argument.
Think stealing a victory bonus is bad? My alliance placed 10th overall in the 2017 gifting event. We literally had full blown fraud limit our legitimately earned rewards (at least 2 alliances). My faith is low, but its nice seeing the cheaters get knocked some way. I know this is 100% off topic, just throwing it out there to make you all feel a bit better :-)
I agree, that's much more of a blow. The financial magnitude of that was just messed up. I also agree that it's just nice to see cheaters finally getting the stick and not the carrot.
Wow, unfortunately it seems there is no way to come out the end of this being fair. An automatic win is unfair, but losing points to a cheating alliance is also unfair. I can't tell which is worse.
Victims of cheating should be awarded something additional because they lost more than simply the victory bonus—there is also the opportunity cost associated with having run a war against someone who won by cheating. All of this talk about “we don’t know whether you would have won or not” is irrelevant in my opinion because we can’t know—the other side decided to violate the ToS in a way that permanently taints that particular war. As a matter of policy, I am more comfortable tilting the playing field toward the team that played fairly.
And I’m for far stiffer penalties than taking points away from cheaters. Shut down their AW matchmaking for a week the first time. Second time, two weeks. Third time, boot them for the season. That would make deciding on piloting a much riskier proposition.
Dr. Zola
Good to see someone agree a cheating team shouldn't be able to steal a victory bonus. I have been quite shocked people are making this, "we don't know if they would have won if the cheating team didn't cheat." argument.
The issue for me is pretty straightforward. Because you cannot tell for certain whether a cheating victim would have won but for the cheating, you are left with a policy decision: do you award points to the victims of cheating who have potentially missed a victory bonus (because their matchmaking paired them with a cheater), or do you refuse to reward a victory bonus out of concern for other alliances who may or may not have gained an advantage because the cheating victim missed out on a victory bonus?
There’s really no way to avoid potentially disadvantaging someone—I just think it should never be the cheating victim.
that would be someone that played by the rules taking spoils, and someone that cheated not getting spoils
No, it would be double retribution. They can't reasonably assume you would have won, and if they're removing War Rating AND Points, people will also be going up in positions, from doing the right thing. What the suggestion would result in is benefitting from someone else's mistakes. A bit greedy, IMO.
It shouldn't matter. You should't be able to cheat and get a victory. If you cheat in any way you should lose. The team that didn't cheat should be given the win by default.
Weather or not a team would have lost had the cheating team not cheated is immaterial, because they cheated.
If they're not keeping the Points or the Rating, then that's not a victory. What you're saying is they should give you the Rewards by default because they cheated, and remove spoils on top of that. Whether you would win or not is not irrelevant. You only deserve Rewards if you win and win fairly. Either way you spell it out, it's benefitting from someone else breaking the rules.
Huh? You can't win fairly if someone is cheating. You understand this right?
They also can't assume you would have won whether they played fairly or not. They're removing Rating and Points, which means the people playing by the rules will rise in standings. That's enough. Anything on top of that is just creating an equally-unfair situation.
They don't have to assume you would've won. When the winner is disqualified in practically everything the next participant is awarded the victory not based on an assumption of what would have happened but because they were the next best after the disqualified party. It's not hard.
You can't win by default, that's what I'm saying. You have to earn the Win the same. People are expecting an easy Win because the other Team cheated. If an Ally ended up with Master Rewards because they encountered enough cheating Allies, you'd never hear the end of it. Lol. Besides, it's equally-unfair. What they're doing now is enough.
Victims of cheating should be awarded something additional because they lost more than simply the victory bonus—there is also the opportunity cost associated with having run a war against someone who won by cheating. All of this talk about “we don’t know whether you would have won or not” is irrelevant in my opinion because we can’t know—the other side decided to violate the ToS in a way that permanently taints that particular war. As a matter of policy, I am more comfortable tilting the playing field toward the team that played fairly.
And I’m for far stiffer penalties than taking points away from cheaters. Shut down their AW matchmaking for a week the first time. Second time, two weeks. Third time, boot them for the season. That would make deciding on piloting a much riskier proposition.
Dr. Zola
They also need to tell the Leader or officers, the exact name of the person that was piloting and / or piloted. Without having that information, it becomes very difficult to manage an alliance.
Agreed completely. But that’s a process improvement, not an underlying policy decision.
Wow, unfortunately it seems there is no way to come out the end of this being fair. An automatic win is unfair, but losing points to a cheating alliance is also unfair. I can't tell which is worse.
At the very least, you should have your War Rating reset to where it was before the war if you lost to a piloting alliance. You may or may not have won if they didn't piloy is a fair argument, but it's unfair to lose War rating and possibly drop a tier when the other alliance cheated. Giving the loser the War rewards for winning wouldn't affect season standings and wouldn't make them feel quite so screwed, too.
Ban top alliances that pilot, that spend heavily, nah pal. Thats not how a business machine works, you slightly punish them, and let them keep going and keep spending.
Ban top alliances that pilot, that spend heavily, nah pal. Thats not how a business machine works, you slightly punish them, and let them keep going and keep spending.
And that’s why piloting won’t ever really stop—because the game makers know they can keep the cash flowing if they administer a slap on the wrist while cheaters know that policing piloting is difficult and the rewards largely outweigh the risks.
Comments
They don't have to assume you would've won. When the winner is disqualified in practically everything the next participant is awarded the victory not based on an assumption of what would have happened but because they were the next best after the disqualified party. It's not hard.
Some people assume that good alliances are cheating because they don't understand good, but that's not what this thread is about.
Then just remove all rewards for both sides in these circumstances
Are all spenders cheaters to, becouse they spend more then 1000$ a week and others can’t?
Lets ban them to, becouse they accounts are to good
Re: I think the only ally from Master bracket who didn’t get their war rating reduced because we’ve NEVER piloted
You are definitely not the only master alliance without rating reduction.
I mean if someone takes a fight, and then a minute later the next one moves... you ever think that this happens.
@blabla I am about to take a fight, you free to take yours after so I can boost up?
@yaya yep no worries, give us a shout when done...
Bla bla takes fight... @yaya go go your free, nodes down.
Yaya jumps on and does fight...
@blabla node down mate your good to go...
Bla bla jumps on and does fight.
Soooo... that does happen, people communicate on Line, to arrange when to fight, so players might boost up and take full advantage.
I love that you’re tagging an actual person for this example.
lol so naive of you...and how about when we have screen shots of the opposing alliance boasting of piloting? and in addition they get deducted -600 points from the AW rating and all of their win bonus points? Oh and demoted to gold category to very low levels of it? And now imagine you have faced that alliance twice in one week?
Who really got punished here?
If you report an alliance that did not cheat they wont get punished.
After every war there will be lots of reports. I bet that least 90% off losers will report cheating. After every war.
And I’m for far stiffer penalties than taking points away from cheaters. Shut down their AW matchmaking for a week the first time. Second time, two weeks. Third time, boot them for the season. That would make deciding on piloting a much riskier proposition.
Dr. Zola
Yeah, nothing wrong with that. Just because an alliance got reported doesn't mean they cheated.
Good to see someone agree a cheating team shouldn't be able to steal a victory bonus. I have been quite shocked people are making this, "we don't know if they would have won if the cheating team didn't cheat." argument.
Think stealing a victory bonus is bad? My alliance placed 10th overall in the 2017 gifting event. We literally had full blown fraud limit our legitimately earned rewards (at least 2 alliances). My faith is low, but its nice seeing the cheaters get knocked some way. I know this is 100% off topic, just throwing it out there to make you all feel a bit better :-)
Bahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha
All issues need fixed. This issue needed fixed and is being fixed. I don't really understand what you are saying. I will always try to win even if its vs. a modding or piloting alliance.
I agree, that's much more of a blow. The financial magnitude of that was just messed up. I also agree that it's just nice to see cheaters finally getting the stick and not the carrot.
The issue for me is pretty straightforward. Because you cannot tell for certain whether a cheating victim would have won but for the cheating, you are left with a policy decision: do you award points to the victims of cheating who have potentially missed a victory bonus (because their matchmaking paired them with a cheater), or do you refuse to reward a victory bonus out of concern for other alliances who may or may not have gained an advantage because the cheating victim missed out on a victory bonus?
There’s really no way to avoid potentially disadvantaging someone—I just think it should never be the cheating victim.
Dr. Zola
You can't win by default, that's what I'm saying. You have to earn the Win the same. People are expecting an easy Win because the other Team cheated. If an Ally ended up with Master Rewards because they encountered enough cheating Allies, you'd never hear the end of it. Lol. Besides, it's equally-unfair. What they're doing now is enough.
Why did you not complain about piloting while you were there and it was all happening?
Agreed completely. But that’s a process improvement, not an underlying policy decision.
Dr. Zola
At the very least, you should have your War Rating reset to where it was before the war if you lost to a piloting alliance. You may or may not have won if they didn't piloy is a fair argument, but it's unfair to lose War rating and possibly drop a tier when the other alliance cheated. Giving the loser the War rewards for winning wouldn't affect season standings and wouldn't make them feel quite so screwed, too.
And that’s why piloting won’t ever really stop—because the game makers know they can keep the cash flowing if they administer a slap on the wrist while cheaters know that policing piloting is difficult and the rewards largely outweigh the risks.
Dr. Zola