v18.1 Discussion Thread

phillgreen wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

It's pretty clear AA is not intended to Stun through Immunity.

Was this "pretty clear" to you prior to Wolf's post in January or after?

It was pretty clear to me all along. Nothing about AA's breakdown would enable him to Stun through Debuff Immunity.

ArmandStar wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

ArmandStar wrote: »

The issue is not the fact that Wolf was mistaken.
Months ago we were given incorrect info, and that's understandable.

The issue is that this change came out of the blue, and up to this point no one ever corrected the info.
the fact that this change was implemented without informing the players beforehand is the problem everyone complains about

How is this different than any other bug fix? They let us know when a resolution is being pushed.

i'm not sure what you mean here. let me try again:

for months, kabam knew this was a bug.
during all these months, they had planned to fix it.
during all these months, they knew the playerbase understood this bug as being "working as intended".
during all these months, they never bothered to correct the information.

that last part is the real problem. not the fact that we were misinformed, but the fact that they knew it and fixed the bug without correcting the misinformation

We can't say what they were and were not aware of, simply because we can't speak for them. Also, the people responsible for fixing said bugs aren't responsible for moderating the Forum, perse. They may check the section, but I doubt they are in the business of clarifying Threads. This has become more blown up than is necessary. Miscommunication does not imply months of careless deceit. Honestly, people get a charge out of any mistake made.

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GroundedWisdom wrote: »

ArmandStar wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

ArmandStar wrote: »

The issue is not the fact that Wolf was mistaken.
Months ago we were given incorrect info, and that's understandable.

The issue is that this change came out of the blue, and up to this point no one ever corrected the info.
the fact that this change was implemented without informing the players beforehand is the problem everyone complains about

How is this different than any other bug fix? They let us know when a resolution is being pushed.

i'm not sure what you mean here. let me try again:

for months, kabam knew this was a bug.
during all these months, they had planned to fix it.
during all these months, they knew the playerbase understood this bug as being "working as intended".
during all these months, they never bothered to correct the information.

that last part is the real problem. not the fact that we were misinformed, but the fact that they knew it and fixed the bug without correcting the misinformation

We can't say what they were and were not aware of, simply because we can't speak for them. Also, the people responsible for fixing said bugs aren't responsible for moderating the Forum, perse. They may check the section, but I doubt they are in the business of clarifying Threads. This has become more blown up than is necessary. Miscommunication does not imply months of careless deceit. Honestly, people get a charge out of any mistake made.

this miscommunication is being highlighted because of there failure to admit that there was a communcation breakdown on there end and try to fix it for the future
an

this is important because if people don't highlight it then it can happen again and again

Shrugged off, what do you propose? It was a bug, a Moderator apologized for the miscommuncation, and it's being resolved. I don't see much room for anything else. The way I see it, people have been benefitting from an unintended bug for months, so there really is no need for some sort of compensation. What more could be said? They can't really do much else.

Sirnoob2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

ArmandStar wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

ArmandStar wrote: »

The issue is not the fact that Wolf was mistaken.
Months ago we were given incorrect info, and that's understandable.

The issue is that this change came out of the blue, and up to this point no one ever corrected the info.
the fact that this change was implemented without informing the players beforehand is the problem everyone complains about

How is this different than any other bug fix? They let us know when a resolution is being pushed.

i'm not sure what you mean here. let me try again:

for months, kabam knew this was a bug.
during all these months, they had planned to fix it.
during all these months, they knew the playerbase understood this bug as being "working as intended".
during all these months, they never bothered to correct the information.

that last part is the real problem. not the fact that we were misinformed, but the fact that they knew it and fixed the bug without correcting the misinformation

We can't say what they were and were not aware of, simply because we can't speak for them. Also, the people responsible for fixing said bugs aren't responsible for moderating the Forum, perse. They may check the section, but I doubt they are in the business of clarifying Threads. This has become more blown up than is necessary. Miscommunication does not imply months of careless deceit. Honestly, people get a charge out of any mistake made.

this miscommunication is being highlighted because of there failure to admit that there was a communcation breakdown on there end and try to fix it for the future
an

this is important because if people don't highlight it then it can happen again and again

How did they not admit it?

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Shrugged off, what do you propose? It was a bug, a Moderator apologized for the miscommuncation, and it's being resolved. I don't see much room for anything else. The way I see it, people have been benefitting from an unintended bug for months, so there really is no need for some sort of compensation. What more could be said? They can't really do much else.

hey we messed up where working on improving our way comuncating with u guys in the future we understand ur frustrations and will get back to u with the results of our work

any statement like this would atleast show they care and
acknowledge that there current system is messed up and that there working on improving it instead we get dead silence

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Sirnoob2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Shrugged off, what do you propose? It was a bug, a Moderator apologized for the miscommuncation, and it's being resolved. I don't see much room for anything else. The way I see it, people have been benefitting from an unintended bug for months, so there really is no need for some sort of compensation. What more could be said? They can't really do much else.

hey we messed up where working on improving our way comuncating with u guys in the future we understand ur frustrations and will get back to u with the results of our work

any statement like this would atleast show they care and
acknowledge that there current system is messed up and that there working on improving it instead we get dead silence

It wasn't even noticed until now. Probably because they can't keep track of every Thread on a mental basis. They're doing a job. Which means they're focused on their responsibilities. After hundreds a day, you couldn't expect me to recall every word from months ago. There's a whole lack of understanding and compassion going on here. We expect perfection and we become righteously indignant when something slips through the cracks. Ever have a bad day? Ever lose track of something? Ever get focused on something else and lose your place?
Come on now.

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Sirnoob2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

ArmandStar wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

ArmandStar wrote: »

The issue is not the fact that Wolf was mistaken.
Months ago we were given incorrect info, and that's understandable.

The issue is that this change came out of the blue, and up to this point no one ever corrected the info.
the fact that this change was implemented without informing the players beforehand is the problem everyone complains about

How is this different than any other bug fix? They let us know when a resolution is being pushed.

i'm not sure what you mean here. let me try again:

for months, kabam knew this was a bug.
during all these months, they had planned to fix it.
during all these months, they knew the playerbase understood this bug as being "working as intended".
during all these months, they never bothered to correct the information.

that last part is the real problem. not the fact that we were misinformed, but the fact that they knew it and fixed the bug without correcting the misinformation

We can't say what they were and were not aware of, simply because we can't speak for them. Also, the people responsible for fixing said bugs aren't responsible for moderating the Forum, perse. They may check the section, but I doubt they are in the business of clarifying Threads. This has become more blown up than is necessary. Miscommunication does not imply months of careless deceit. Honestly, people get a charge out of any mistake made.

this miscommunication is being highlighted because of there failure to admit that there was a communcation breakdown on there end and try to fix it for the future
an

this is important because if people don't highlight it then it can happen again and again

How did they not admit it?

all they said was our mod gave wrong info.... after it was already pointed out that's the problem

this should've been addressed way before now

Sirnoob2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Sirnoob2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

ArmandStar wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

ArmandStar wrote: »

The issue is not the fact that Wolf was mistaken.
Months ago we were given incorrect info, and that's understandable.

The issue is that this change came out of the blue, and up to this point no one ever corrected the info.
the fact that this change was implemented without informing the players beforehand is the problem everyone complains about

How is this different than any other bug fix? They let us know when a resolution is being pushed.

i'm not sure what you mean here. let me try again:

for months, kabam knew this was a bug.
during all these months, they had planned to fix it.
during all these months, they knew the playerbase understood this bug as being "working as intended".
during all these months, they never bothered to correct the information.

that last part is the real problem. not the fact that we were misinformed, but the fact that they knew it and fixed the bug without correcting the misinformation

We can't say what they were and were not aware of, simply because we can't speak for them. Also, the people responsible for fixing said bugs aren't responsible for moderating the Forum, perse. They may check the section, but I doubt they are in the business of clarifying Threads. This has become more blown up than is necessary. Miscommunication does not imply months of careless deceit. Honestly, people get a charge out of any mistake made.

this miscommunication is being highlighted because of there failure to admit that there was a communcation breakdown on there end and try to fix it for the future
an

this is important because if people don't highlight it then it can happen again and again

How did they not admit it?

all they said was our mod gave wrong info.... after it was already pointed out that's the problem

this should've been addressed way before now

It would have been had it been brought to their attention. Unfortunately, people were running with the money on that one.

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We're not innocent in that one.

phillgreen

People are entitled to make mistakes, it's how you deal with those mistakes that shows integrity.

Integrity would be either letting the player base know as soon as a mistake is discovered or allowing people to have time to process the results of the error along with a fairly heartfelt apology for an obvious screwup.

This decision lacks integrity no matter how its spun.

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Sirnoob2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Shrugged off, what do you propose? It was a bug, a Moderator apologized for the miscommuncation, and it's being resolved. I don't see much room for anything else. The way I see it, people have been benefitting from an unintended bug for months, so there really is no need for some sort of compensation. What more could be said? They can't really do much else.

hey we messed up where working on improving our way comuncating with u guys in the future we understand ur frustrations and will get back to u with the results of our work

any statement like this would atleast show they care and
acknowledge that there current system is messed up and that there working on improving it instead we get dead silence

It wasn't even noticed until now. Probably because they can't keep track of every Thread on a mental basis. They're doing a job. Which means they're focused on their responsibilities. After hundreds a day, you couldn't expect me to recall every word from months ago. There's a whole lack of understanding and compassion going on here. We expect perfection and we become righteously indignant when something slips through the cracks. Ever have a bad day? Ever lose track of something? Ever get focused on something else and lose your place?
Come on now.

one does not matter when it was noticed the fact that it was noticed and nothing was said is the problem
also there doing a job there job is to communicate between the playerbase AND the game team so why weren't they made aware that they were given this faulty info? again breakdown of communcation

2 mods them selfs have said always use the search bar to see if a topic has been. brought up
3 perfection no mistakes are fine mistakes happen but at one point we grow up and take responsibility for our mistakes in this case kabam made a mistake that led to people to some useing res/money for a champ only to find out the reason that those people wanted to use it for will get changed then the responsible thing to do would be refund those res

imagine you want to buy console for online gaming you do ur research o n it u then decide to ask a rep of that company if it has the ability to play online and they say yes

then a few months down the road they say it was a bug and they remove it wouldn't u be mad?

I don't even have aa but yeah I can understand how this can make someone mad

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phillgreen

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Unfortunately, people were running with the money on that one.

Asking the question of the company reps and receiving an answer is running with the money now?

Who are we supposed to consult when we find something that we don't understand or needs clarification?

Maybe you, since you obviously knew this was a bug but then again, you knew and didn't bother to tell anyone either.

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Would I be mad? No. If something is a bug, then it's a bug. I'm a lot more focused on the actual issue than someone's mistaken comment. I'm not operating on fuelling mistrust and suspicion. Whether the comment was incorrect or not is inconsequential at this point. It was a bug.

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The point I'm making is it was a mistaken comment, as per the most recent clarification. We can either hold them over a fire, or accept the fact that mistakes can happen despite diligence. It's not that common of an occurrence, and there could be many reason behind the mistake that don't automatically imply them changing their say to suit their purpose. All I know is I have AA at R5, and none of the reasons I Ranked him involved bypassing Debuff Immunity.

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

The point I'm making is it was a mistaken comment, as per the most recent clarification. We can either hold them over a fire, or accept the fact that mistakes can happen despite diligence. It's not that common of an occurrence, and there could be many reason behind the mistake that don't automatically imply them changing their say to suit their purpose. All I know is I have AA at R5, and none of the reasons I Ranked him involved bypassing Debuff Immunity.

we are fine with mistaken comments people make mistakes what we would like is for them to try and use this as a learning tool and see where they can improve from there

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CodePlay

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

The point I'm making is it was a mistaken comment, as per the most recent clarification. We can either hold them over a fire, or accept the fact that mistakes can happen despite diligence. It's not that common of an occurrence, and there could be many reason behind the mistake that don't automatically imply them changing their say to suit their purpose. All I know is I have AA at R5, and none of the reasons I Ranked him involved bypassing Debuff Immunity.

Don't forget that this lead to other players to rank-up AA as they were informed AA is working as intended. It is good that they admitted about the misinformation, but they should be also responsible on the result that this has lead to players. Players deserve specific RDT, just like Brian Grant said in his video.

Stat

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Would I be mad? No. If something is a bug, then it's a bug. I'm a lot more focused on the actual issue than someone's mistaken comment. I'm not operating on fuelling mistrust and suspicion. Whether the comment was incorrect or not is inconsequential at this point. It was a bug.

You are missing the point. It's only a "bug" because they now tell us it is one. At no point has it ever been pointed out as a bug; in fact, quite the opposite. It was specifically listed as NOT a bug by a forum moderator. In fact, there is a thread in the Bug and Known Issues Forum that is stickied at the top entitled "Known Issues." If this was known to the devs as a bug all this time, why has it never been up there as a known issue?

So it's a "bug" when it becomes convenient for them to say it is one, allowing them to get around saying "we're changing one of this character's abilities because it is too strong" and getting the "NEEEERRFFFF!!!" outrage from everyone. Except the community (well, just about everyone but you) sees through this.

If you don't see that then you are really blind to reality. Oh wait, as your post history on this forum has shown time and time again...you are.

CodePlay wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

The point I'm making is it was a mistaken comment, as per the most recent clarification. We can either hold them over a fire, or accept the fact that mistakes can happen despite diligence. It's not that common of an occurrence, and there could be many reason behind the mistake that don't automatically imply them changing their say to suit their purpose. All I know is I have AA at R5, and none of the reasons I Ranked him involved bypassing Debuff Immunity.

Don't forget that this lead to other players to rank-up AA as they were informed AA is working as intended. It is good that they admitted about the misinformation, but they should be also responsible on the result that this has lead to players. Players deserve specific RDT, just like Brian Grant said in his video.

I don't agree that it warrants Tickets for a few reasons. Mainly because I think they are counterintuitive to what the game is designed for. Mostly because it's not a significant change to how AA is intended to function. If people Ranked for that purpose alone, quite frankly they don't know what his use is.

Stat wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Would I be mad? No. If something is a bug, then it's a bug. I'm a lot more focused on the actual issue than someone's mistaken comment. I'm not operating on fuelling mistrust and suspicion. Whether the comment was incorrect or not is inconsequential at this point. It was a bug.

You are missing the point. It's only a "bug" because they now tell us it is one. At no point has it ever been pointed out as a bug; in fact, quite the opposite. It was specifically listed as NOT a bug by a forum moderator. In fact, there is a thread in the Bug and Known Issues Forum that is stickied at the top entitled "Known Issues." If this was known to the devs as a bug all this time, why has it never been up there as a known issue?

So it's a "bug" when it becomes convenient for them to say it is one, allowing them to get around saying "we're changing one of this character's abilities because it is too strong" and getting the "NEEEERRFFFF!!!" outrage from everyone. Except the community (well, just about everyone but you) sees through this.

If you don't see that then you are really blind to reality. Oh wait, as your post history on this forum has shown time and time again...you are.

Ultimately, what their intention for Champs is, is entirely up to them. Whatever contradicts their vision is a bug. That's pretty much subjective all-around. All the talk about nerfs is blind to the fact that it's their call when they want to change their product.
However, I am not blind to the feelings people have. I get it. It's just worth pointing out when people are getting carried away. The fact of the matter is, it isn't what their intended goal is for him, whatever breakdown in communication there is.