v18.1 Discussion Thread

Summoners!

Version 18.1 is scheduled for release on Monday, June 4th! Head over to our change log to find out what is coming your way!

Comments

Idelest

Haji_Saab wrote: »

In a game like this, I expect every single update to contain "adjustments" to a lot of characters. Both buffs and nerfs.

I just wish Kabam was brave enough to admit some things are too overpowered or underpowered and do something about it.

I agree with you here man we never get adjustments they are so so rare. That is exactly why this is such a big deal. They make maybe 5-6 adjustments every year, usually buffs to champions who are completely under-used. They have nerfed champions only once ever and now this is the second time.

I think if we as a community were more used to constant balancing we wouldn't be upset, but we know how they work and its mostly focused on future content. To have them go back and nerf AA is just strange and out of place.

nope

It's only a fix after the information given by kabam was labeled as wrong. Then they relabeled his ability as a bug. That's the timeline of what happened. Pretty it up any way you want, it won't change.

Whether people would use rank downs is immaterial. Kabam giving aa-specific rank downs would, at the very least, show the players that they don't have to be as worried about their champs as they are right now. Everyone is fine with changes that need to happen AS LONG AS THEY DON'T GET SCREWED IN THE PROCESS.

But this situation was mishandled in almost every way possible. They could have corrected the newly labeled incorrect information. They could have posted the aa ability in the known bugs section of the forum. They could have done a number of things to make this change less shady, but they did not. Instead, it shows as a single line item in a changelog. The way it was handled breeds fear and anger... Because it's not the ability of aa people are worried about. It's every other champ and every other ability that might one day become a bug with no notice. And it's every awakening gem, sig stone, catalyst, and gold that's put into those champs that are at risk. A champion specific rdt shows the players that they can safely rank a champ without fear of longstanding confirmed abilities magically becoming bugs and being "fixed".

An aa specific rdt will not hurt the economy of the game or allow players to advance in an unwanted way. Many would not use them bc aa is awesome even after the change. But it would show them that kabam isn't going to randomly nerf their champs without some sort of restitution (Ty Zola). All the players want is fairness and knowledge. Kabam had 6 months to correct the information. 6 months in which they said nothing while players finished act 5 for an ag. 6 months while various side quests fed us sig stones. 6 months and nothing except one surprise line in a changelog that created this mess.

It's not about aa. It's about being straight up with us. It's about us being able to rank without worry of wasting resources we've grinded out over months and months. If kabam or certain players can't understand that simple part, then they're lost.

LeNoirFaineant

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

They're not giving Tickets for it, it's already been addressed. For that matter, it's not a change to his inherent functioning, much less a major one. It's a fix.
Besides that, if people only used him for that one reason and would Rank him down because of the change, I would suggest they get to know his uses more. AA is highly effective, regardless if his Stun counts as a Debuff or not. That is pretty obvious.

@GroundedWisdom your constant "it's already been addressed" in active, ongoing threads is not helpful. Obviously it has not been addressed to the satisfaction of 99% of the people here. We are all aware of what has already been said, and stating that it's a "fix" begs the question many of us are asking. Many times after Kabam has "addressed" something they have modified their original decision based on community response. If you have something to contribute well and good. Spamming the company line isn't furthering the discussion.

GroundedWisdom

LeNoirFaineant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

They're not giving Tickets for it, it's already been addressed. For that matter, it's not a change to his inherent functioning, much less a major one. It's a fix.
Besides that, if people only used him for that one reason and would Rank him down because of the change, I would suggest they get to know his uses more. AA is highly effective, regardless if his Stun counts as a Debuff or not. That is pretty obvious.

@GroundedWisdom your constant "it's already been addressed" in active, ongoing threads is not helpful. Obviously it has not been addressed to the satisfaction of 99% of the people here. We are all aware of what has already been said, and stating that it's a "fix" begs the question many of us are asking. Many times after Kabam has "addressed" something they have modified their original decision based on community response. If you have something to contribute well and good. Spamming the company line isn't furthering the discussion.

My comment is not spam. It's reiterating what was said. They're not giving Tickets. Spamming could also be considered continually asking for them, even though it's been commented on. Is there a constructive purpose to you disputing every comment I make?

LeNoirFaineant

@Thestoryteller6 I saw your comment before it was removed. You were spot on.

LeNoirFaineant

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

LeNoirFaineant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

They're not giving Tickets for it, it's already been addressed. For that matter, it's not a change to his inherent functioning, much less a major one. It's a fix.
Besides that, if people only used him for that one reason and would Rank him down because of the change, I would suggest they get to know his uses more. AA is highly effective, regardless if his Stun counts as a Debuff or not. That is pretty obvious.

@GroundedWisdom your constant "it's already been addressed" in active, ongoing threads is not helpful. Obviously it has not been addressed to the satisfaction of 99% of the people here. We are all aware of what has already been said, and stating that it's a "fix" begs the question many of us are asking. Many times after Kabam has "addressed" something they have modified their original decision based on community response. If you have something to contribute well and good. Spamming the company line isn't furthering the discussion.

My comment is not spam. It's reiterating what was said. They're not giving Tickets. Spamming could also be considered continually asking for them, even though it's been commented on. Is there a constructive purpose to you disputing every comment I make?

Reiterating what was said when we not only already know but are actively objecting to what was said is exactly what spam is. I don't care if they give rank downs or not, but you don't know if they will. You said many times before that rank downs won't be coming back and then they did. You are derailing the thread.

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DHCVoLt

Will domino/massacre be in the x-force crystals?

B012

ScottLang wrote: »

Lol i cant beleive how many people are complaining about the AA stun thing lol like where do you guys use this thats making it a “game changing fix” or in anyway makes AA any worse of a champ? Lol like hes still one of the best to use for thorns like against IM on map 6 and anywhere where his stun from his nuerotoxin could be benificial bis nuerotoxin in general still would kill the champ fast enough anyways so i don’t understand the commotion unless its just another thing for everyone to flip out about cause they love the drama or are hungry for rank down tickets and using this as a catalyst to try and get one

its not about aa at all. its about the way this was delivered to us. what stops them tomorrow to do same thing with your beloved champ, with a simple quote "bug fix. your champ was not working as intended"
you are missing the big picture here.

Erza_Scarlet

This AA case is so demoralizing. If not properly handled, kabam will lose the trust of its remaining player base.

CapWW2

No it is not. Maybe you dont have AA 😂

GroundedWisdom

CapWW2 wrote: »

No it is not. Maybe you dont have AA 😂

I have him at R5. So, yeah.

CapWW2

This is simple. Leave the champs that are ok and we like as is. Buffs the 95 percent bad ones we have in the game.

Logan

Thought this was supposed to be a June 4 update just faced immune spidy in war and guess what he did not get stun after 3 neurotoxin, on the 4th neuro he did unreal please let me rank him down or should I post this in the bugs forum lol

DNA3000

StopLying wrote: »

One of Archangel's passive abilities: Neurotoxin.
The description of Neurotoxin.
"Neurotoxins are a Passive effect, and therefore do not count as either a Debuff, or a Poison."
"On expiry Neurotoxins have a 100% Chance to Stun their target for 1.50 seconds. This effect will not interrupt a Special Attack"

This is part of the description of Neurotoxin as written by Kabam. Both listed as bullets under Neurotoxin, not as separate passive abilities. Part of the Neurotoxin is that it Stuns for 1.50 second on expiry and does not count as a Debuff or Poison.
Of course it wasn't acting like every other stun because this is one of Archangel's passive abilities as written on the description by Kabam.

I can see how a player might interpret the text that way, but that isn't consistent with how the game works. Stun isn't a thing that neurotoxin can do, stun is an effect that neurotoxin must trigger as a status effect. So just because neurotoxin is a passive effect, doesn't mean the stun it triggers must also be a passive effect.

Yellowjacket's biosting is also a passive effect, but the stun it triggers is a normal active stun effect, just like all other stun effects in the game.

DrZola

I see my “What is a Bug?” thread has been removed, which is a shame because @DNA3000 and a few others had a substantive discussion about bugs and their role in this game and games in general. Unless I missed something, there was nothing in the thread that would constitute spam, abuse or anything other than fairly polite and reasoned discussion.

Is this the forums approach from here on out? Because, in my opinion, it appears to mirror the heavy-handed approach to the entire AA situation. And I don’t think this is the correct direction to go—not if the forums are meant to be a place where anything is taken seriously.

Dr. Zola

Honeybunny217

I know AA posts are starting to get old, but I have a few questions about his passive ability. I get why his neurotoxin stun is changing to a debuff but that raised another question for me. It states in his abilities that,
"Archangels ability accuracy cannot be reduced by his opponents abilities," so what are the limits or parameters to this ability? If Black Widow can bypass nodes like Safeguard, Spiked Armor, etc... with her defensive ability accuracy reduction ability, then, theoretically, AA should be able to make Scarlet Witch (or any other bleeding champ) bleed on a Bleed Immune node right? How does this ability interact with shrugging off abilities? Who gets the tiebreaker - AA or Agent Venom, Crossbones, etc... or can other champs like Rogue decrease the bleed/poison/stun duration? Does his ability protection just allow him to only place the debuff but not guarantee that it will stay active or have its duration or potency decreased? I'm just curious so that I can plan how I can use my AA after the update goes live. Thanks. @Kabam Miike

DNA3000

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

The point I'm making is it was a mistaken comment, as per the most recent clarification. We can either hold them over a fire, or accept the fact that mistakes can happen despite diligence. It's not that common of an occurrence, and there could be many reason behind the mistake that don't automatically imply them changing their say to suit their purpose. All I know is I have AA at R5, and none of the reasons I Ranked him involved bypassing Debuff Immunity.

As someone who believes in professional responsibility, to be frank I vote fire.

This wasn't, as you keep trying to characterize it, just a moderator mistake. When a moderator answers a direct question from the players about a very specific question about the *intent* of a game feature that appears odd or unusual, they have a responsibility to get that answer correct. They are not allowed to guess, they are not allowed to be careless. They must confirm the answer with someone who knows the answer authoritatively, and pass that answer along accurately. We often say that the moderators cannot be responsible for the actions or the statements of the developers, because they are just the messenger. But that's only true if they are just the messenger. If they were just the messenger in this case, then the moderator error is actually a developer error no one wants to admit to. If they were not just the messenger, then this was an inexcusable error that needs to be rectified.

DrZola

DNA3000 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

The point I'm making is it was a mistaken comment, as per the most recent clarification. We can either hold them over a fire, or accept the fact that mistakes can happen despite diligence. It's not that common of an occurrence, and there could be many reason behind the mistake that don't automatically imply them changing their say to suit their purpose. All I know is I have AA at R5, and none of the reasons I Ranked him involved bypassing Debuff Immunity.

As someone who believes in professional responsibility, to be frank I vote fire.

This wasn't, as you keep trying to characterize it, just a moderator mistake. When a moderator answers a direct question from the players about a very specific question about the *intent* of a game feature that appears odd or unusual, they have a responsibility to get that answer correct. They are not allowed to guess, they are not allowed to be careless. They must confirm the answer with someone who knows the answer authoritatively, and pass that answer along accurately. We often say that the moderators cannot be responsible for the actions or the statements of the developers, because they are just the messenger. But that's only true if they are just the messenger. If they were just the messenger in this case, then the moderator error is actually a developer error no one wants to admit to. If they were not just the messenger, then this was an inexcusable error that needs to be rectified.

Yes. 100% yes. And even more yes if the forums continue to delete polite, reasoned discourse while allowing incessant prattle.

Dr. Zola

Gore

I get it
Kabam knows is unfair still decides to walk on corps cause they can . Thank you
After almost 3 yeas of playing this game and all contents finished over 7 hours of playing every day over money invested i had ONE CHANCE TO RANK 5 a 5* and I choosed Archangel
This can only means one thing the pleasure for this game as come to an end cause this game is not enjoyable anymore has come more of a job where u have no support on contrary you get a big hit in your head
@Kabam Miike @Kabam Wolf you guys have the right to do whatever u want with this company nobody can stop you guys. Just remember a thing respect is earned not forced. Put yourselves in my position and tell me what reason I have to continue this game when instead of climbing in this game you decide to take us down by making one of the most loved characters in this game a usless Kamala Khan.

P.S. kabam made this forum to keep in touch with his clients and to help them reach their needs and resolve their problems. That’s not happening it seems like is only for announcements and not for helping.
Create a poll and u will see that NOBODY here will have the same opinion you have about changing AA.... NOBODY... so it’s a FACT we don’t count

nope

@DrZola that's just sad. There was nothing wrong with that thread.

@DNA3000 dead on.

And @GroundedWisdom you're just trying too hard. I appreciate that you have a 4* archangel at r5 and that's cool because he's a great champ. But what if after you saw wolf clearly explain that archangel is working as intended and his ability is "not a bug", you invested units in his fgmc crystal? And you were lucky enough to get him. Then you used the most rare and valued item in the game and awakened him. Then you used your sig stones on him. All of them, class and generic. Then you used the next rarest item in the game and r5'd your 5* awakened archangel. All because you knew it was a safe play because the people that are "in the know" told you it was ok and everything with this champ is working as intended.

So now all the work you put into act 5, all the gold grinding, all the special quests and event quests, all the t4cc you've been saving, those ridiculously pesky t1a, and those sought after t2a are all spent on something that IS NOT WHAT IT WAS ADVERTISED TO BE. Now that's a very unfortunate situation to be in. Furthermore, the people who gave you the "false" information could make things right with a VERY SIMPLE TASK, but for some reason they outright refuse to do so.

You can't simply go back to act 5 and do it all over again to recoup your losses. You can't fix this issue on your own. But the ones that can have turned their back and stuck fingers in their ears. All over one silly little item. It's the epitome of needless stubbornness. It's a silly way to alienate and anger the player base. There's literally no upside in not giving aa-rdt for kabam. It just makes them look terrible...needlessly.

SMiller80

@Kabam Miike and company, it's time for a response that sounds like you're listening and actually understand our concerns. You do understand, right?

1. It feels like you say stuff and then go back and reverse those things whenever it suits you.
2. It feels like you don't care that people use hard earned resources to rank up champs that are supposedly working as intended, and then you change them.
3. It feels like you think this is all okay and we should just forget about it.

So...

1. You shouldn't
2. You should
3. It isn't, and we won't

This isn't like nerfing willpower. You admitted that was working as intended and were changing it.

This isn't like nerfing perfect block. You admitted that was working as intended and were changing it.

This is nerfing a champ who you previously said was working as intended. That's a major deal. Please at least admit it and communicate accordingly.

CometEarth

I would like to ask something since black panther CW ability says physical Stun and AA neurotoxin is passive is it going to be reflected . i dont see any contract when its expired .You can literally be on the other side of the screen.Also you can add the neurotoxin using sp1 or sp2 that they make no contract.
@Kabam Miike

DTMelodicMetal

LeNoirFaineant wrote: »

It wasn't just a random comment made by a Mod. It was an answer to a question in "bugs and known issues" which they not only answered but resolved and closed the thread by marking it "not a bug."

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/251553#Comment_251553

This is especially puzzling because forum moderators often don't answer these questions on their own. There are tons of posts from forum moderators where they respond to players' questions with something like "I'll pass this on to the team" or "just checked,....". These types of responses to players' specific questions imply that forum moderators are instructed - possibly by MCOC game developers/coders - how to answer these exact types of questions.

One forum moderator stating that another forum moderator gave wrong information contradicts months to years of forum moderator responses that detail how they asked Kabam employees more familiar with MCOC game mechanics for answers to questions before giving those answers.

DrZola

DTMelodicMetal wrote: »

DrZola wrote: »

I see my “What is a Bug?” thread has been removed, which is a shame because @DNA3000 and a few others had a substantive discussion about bugs and their role in this game and games in general. Unless I missed something, there was nothing in the thread that would constitute spam, abuse or anything other than fairly polite and reasoned discussion.

Is this the forums approach from here on out? Because, in my opinion, it appears to mirror the heavy-handed approach to the entire AA situation. And I don’t think this is the correct direction to go—not if the forums are meant to be a place where anything is taken seriously.

Dr. Zola

This is becoming increasingly common. Kabam could better protect themselves by adding a forum rule that states moderators can remove posts/threads at their discretion, since that's what they already do.

I don’t get it. I started an initial thread about the changes to AA because I was surprised and wanted to get community thoughts on it. That led to Miike’s original post about AA being “bugged.” And that thread got closed with his comment, which is silly given the predictable fallout from Miike’s declaration.

There were then a couple of additional AA threads that could have easily been merged and managed, but instead continued to meander down slightly different paths. My “What is a Bug?” was one, and I actually learned a few things from the posts in it. It was an interesting follow on to all the talk about what is an “exploit” from a week or so back when 1.1.5 was a thing.

So...polite forums threads are often deleted or closed, derailing and demeaning comments stick around while innocuous ones disappear and official forums pronouncements can be completely disregarded.

Getting back to the point of this thread: the advent of 18.1. This isn’t an auspicious start.

Dr. Zola

Tranminhbao

may I ask this. The new game version have 2 new character: Massacre and Domino, right?

Tranminhbao

they should have an Acid-vomiting character, or maybe Massacre can vomit acid. The guy have no super power in the comic.

VTA92

I feel like This whole AA and what is a bug conversation can beat be compared to the NFL and it’s inability to clearly determine what is a catch.

jaylerd

Tranminhbao wrote: »

they should have an Acid-vomiting character, or maybe Massacre can vomit acid. The guy have no super power in the comic.

The entire skill class is based on champs without powers. Gwenpool's one of the best, no need to change anything.