2* wars effecting the highest levels of AW.

I feel like I am making these posts more and more lately. Being so late in the season I can't believe cheating is becoming more prevalent.

Here is a picture of a top AW alliance doing a 2* war. You know how long I have been going on about this issue? It has still not been addressed. http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/67928/2-wars-and-aw-seasons#latest Please address it. Now is a good time.

As you can see this alliance has placed a 2* defense. They had 0 kills on both sides and the losing side placed low on diversity just as I have said they do over and over. In the bottom part you can see what a real war between the two alliances looks like. 21 deaths to 23 deaths. Absurd.

This kind of behavior really effects the competitive spirit of the game mode. For those of us who are using potions and boosts every war to get a top spot, seeing something like this is disgusting. No effort and same or better rewards?

We need to punish and prevent this from happening at all levels of AW. This is an important issue to me and many that play using boosts and potions and literally stress before fights. The challenge to beat an opponent with no deaths is something I love most about the game, so when others are bypassing this placing 2* defenders it makes all the work I've put in to get those boosts and potions and learn how to fight a new champion every other week all for nothing.

Comments

Avicari

It just makes me angry. Why should these alliances get a “free war” while the rest of us spend and work our butts off. It’s bs

Riegel

Time to sit down and have a hard look at the data. Who all participated in this from plat 1 and up? If you want to go deeper by all means. Find who participated in this form of cheating and punish them the same way they have punished those who have done similar things a week ago.

nope

Agree with all that except the "same way" part. It's past time to go all out and make an example or two. It's been proven over and over that players will just continue the same behavior because the penalties aren't steep enough. They'll stop piloting an entire alliance and spread the pilot workload over several members to fly under the radar. They'll get more exclusive as to who they allow in matchmaking rooms. They'll forego text altogether to avoid screenshots. Etc etc etc.

Arena abusers got arena bans and weren't allowed rewards from arena. Drop a war ban and take away rewards and see how fast things get cleaned up.

Riegel

I can agree with that.

Spera

Even though I agree that action needs to be taken ,I don't see how it could be a ban .
Members can just say it was the leader who decided to do 2* or they had no idea until war started etc.. and punishing the allience by reducing points and aw rating , well we all know that doesn't work for high tier allience , jumping ship is as easy as drinking water for them just to hang on to rewards .
I do find the "war temp ban" interesting as an allience wide punishment but I think it should be for severe cases like this set up wars people mentioned ,would suck for a whole allience to get banned from wars because one or more piloted or used another type of cheat without the rest knowing 😌

Ralphie1025

Riegel wrote: »

Time to sit down and have a hard look at the data. Who all participated in this from plat 1 and up? If you want to go deeper by all means. Find who participated in this form of cheating and punish them the same way they have punished those who have done similar things a week ago.

So my assumption is that you are Riegel that is currently in Apoco? How would you respond to an accusation of your hypocrisy given that the alliance you are currently a member of is in the long known about "matchmaking chat" which many top alliances use to avoid matching each other? Don't get me wrong, the 2* wars are BS, but you are clearly drawing a moral line in the sand that does not include yourself. Just wondering what constitutes cheating and what does not from your perspective?

For_Spetz

The same alliance that is under the radar right now for arranging 2* in Season 2 , was also doing similiar tactics in Season 1 while they were piloting to Top 3.

Exploiting the game is nothing new to this group. While most of us discuss with our
Alliance mates what rank ups and strategy to impliment in the game, they are discussing ways to cheat and beat the system.

It is disgusting, and they deserve to be punished. Allowing them to remain a Top 3 Master team would be a slap in the face
to anybody who plays this game fair, and remove alot of integrity and value in any rewards that honest teams may earn.

Their shinangians and exploitive cheating behavior taints all Top teams the same way and most people will think that Master bracket is corrupt and has no more honest players.

Punish them and set the bar.

Riegel

Ralphie1025 wrote: »

Riegel wrote: »

Time to sit down and have a hard look at the data. Who all participated in this from plat 1 and up? If you want to go deeper by all means. Find who participated in this form of cheating and punish them the same way they have punished those who have done similar things a week ago.

So my assumption is that you are Riegel that is currently in Apoco? How would you respond to an accusation of your hypocrisy given that the alliance you are currently a member of is in the long known about "matchmaking chat" which many top alliances use to avoid matching each other? Don't get me wrong, the 2* wars are BS, but you are clearly drawing a moral line in the sand that does not include yourself. Just wondering what constitutes cheating and what does not from your perspective?

Hello, and thanks for making a forum account for the specific purposes of asking me this question. Welcome to the forums.

I am a member of Apoco. I will say that again. I am a member. I have no insights to the leadership chats or the "matchmaking chat."

I do know that this chat exists and that alliances do use it to avoid or find out who they are facing. If you want to use Apoco as an example we must really suck at using that chat because multiple times this season we have faced top 10, top 5 and top 3 teams. Also, we have failed to ever do a 2* war.

From my perspective any form of collusion is and should be considered cheating. If you use this chat to form an agreement for 2* wars that is cheating, If you use this chat to match at the same time as another alliance in order to obtain defender remaining points that is cheating.

Riegel

For_Spetz wrote: »

The same alliance that is under the radar right now for arranging 2* in Season 2 , was also doing similiar tactics in Season 1 while they were piloting to Top 3.

Exploiting the game is nothing new to this group. While most of us discuss with our
Alliance mates what rank ups and strategy to impliment in the game, they are discussing ways to cheat and beat the system.

It is disgusting, and they deserve to be punished. Allowing them to remain a Top 3 Master team would be a slap in the face
to anybody who plays this game fair, and remove alot of integrity and value in any rewards that honest teams may earn.

Their shinangians and exploitive cheating behavior taints all Top teams the same way and most people will think that Master bracket is corrupt and has no more honest players.

Punish them and set the bar.

It seems they have not learned the lesson.

THX135

Everyone is making an incorrect assumption that it is easy to manipulate war match making. This is false. It is incredibly hard. Starting match making at the same time does not guarantee you will match (especially after the updates Kabam has done to the algorithm before season 2 started). There is some RNG in the matching algorithm. Doing it consistently is almost impossible.

However, it's much easier to do the following:
1. Avoid matching others by taking turns looking for a match like some high level alliances do in a chat group
2. Wait until you match then figure out who you matched based on your time to start and war calculator. Then, talk to your matched alliance to see if they want to save on spending on pots and do a pre-arranged war.

Both of these methods are not against any ToS. It is not a bug or mod. If Kabam wants to stop the 2 methods above then they can update the game to not allow 2/3* placements in high tiers and not show time a war starts down to the minute and second.

nope

Ralphie1025 wrote: »

Riegel wrote: »

Time to sit down and have a hard look at the data. Who all participated in this from plat 1 and up? If you want to go deeper by all means. Find who participated in this form of cheating and punish them the same way they have punished those who have done similar things a week ago.

So my assumption is that you are Riegel that is currently in Apoco? How would you respond to an accusation of your hypocrisy given that the alliance you are currently a member of is in the long known about "matchmaking chat" which many top alliances use to avoid matching each other? Don't get me wrong, the 2* wars are BS, but you are clearly drawing a moral line in the sand that does not include yourself. Just wondering what constitutes cheating and what does not from your perspective?

What you're saying here has merit but it doesn't change the overall picture. Idk him but I do know about what you mentioned. All too often, threads like this get buried or deleted because of finger pointing. But one player doing wrong doesn't negate another player's wrongdoing. As far as I'm concerned, punishment should be severe and equal with the goal being to clean up the bs that goes on. And personally, I'm not excluding anyone

Riegel

I would love to see Kabam look at the game data, and retroactively punish all those who participated in 2* wars this season for ever war they did it.

Hulksmasshh

Riegel wrote: »

Ralphie1025 wrote: »

Riegel wrote: »

Time to sit down and have a hard look at the data. Who all participated in this from plat 1 and up? If you want to go deeper by all means. Find who participated in this form of cheating and punish them the same way they have punished those who have done similar things a week ago.

So my assumption is that you are Riegel that is currently in Apoco? How would you respond to an accusation of your hypocrisy given that the alliance you are currently a member of is in the long known about "matchmaking chat" which many top alliances use to avoid matching each other? Don't get me wrong, the 2* wars are BS, but you are clearly drawing a moral line in the sand that does not include yourself. Just wondering what constitutes cheating and what does not from your perspective?

Hello, and thanks for making a forum account for the specific purposes of asking me this question.

I am a member of Apoco. I will say that again. I am a member. I have no insights to the leadership chats or the "matchmaking chat."

I do know that this chat exists and that alliances do use it to avoid or find out who they are facing. If you want to use Apoco as an example we must really suck at using that chat because multiple times this season we have faced top 10, top 5 and top 3 teams. Also, we have failed to ever do a 2* war.

From my perspective any form of collusion is and should be considered cheating. If you use this chat to form an agreement for 2* wars that is cheating, If you use this chat to match at the same time as another alliance in order to obtain defender remaining points that is cheating.

Well your alliance is in matchmaking chats whether you are aware or not lol, avoiding certain other alliances on purpose. And there is a separation between alliances now in those matchmaking chats. You guys are not squeaky clean as you’re coming off, but I’m glad you’re pressing to have these matchmaking problems fixed.

Though I think many of these issues stem from a developer and game design issue rather than a cheating playerbase issue. If a bank leaves a million dollars on the street unguarded, best believe someone will come along and try to steal it. Both parties can be put to blame, but is that more the thieves’ fault or the bank’s fault?

Riegel

You are correct I am unaware.

Riegel

It seems like it would be very easy to hide the data needed to collude. IMO just removed that data.

Uppercut

Did OP send alliance tags to one of the mods? I saw player names on reddit but looks like they are hidden here

Jaffacaked

Riegel wrote: »

You are correct I am unaware.

Keeping up the plausible deniability, you've been taught well young padawan

ContestOfNoobs

SO many allainces that was in masters season 1 have fallen off cause they cant pilot/cheat anymore

there are legit alliances that are playing for these rewards...

Cheaters never win, so they shouldnt be allowed to have rewards...

"Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it."

please dont repeat what happened in season 1...please

Riegel

Uppercut wrote: »

Did OP send alliance tags to one of the mods? I saw player names on reddit but looks like they are hidden here

I have and I'm sure many many more have. The mods know if that's your question.

Riegel

ContestOfNoobs wrote: »

SO many allainces that was in masters season 1 have fallen off cause they cant pilot/cheat anymore

there are legit alliances that are playing for these rewards...

Cheaters never win, so they shouldnt be allowed to have rewards...

"Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it."

please dont repeat what happened in season 1...please

Unfortunately, we are here again. Many of the same players from previous cheating alliances. It is my fear they will just keep finding new alliances and continue the same behavior.

Blitzkilla420

Kabam, I think the best way to find out which top allys is running 2* wars to manipulate the aw matchmaking is they need see which allys placed 2*s for defence in season 2.

If you look at it they're not using any items to clear lanes or bosses but the rest of us legitmate competitors have to do instead.

I hope kabam seriously looks at this and I constructively say that they need to step up their security measures cause we have to spend and they don't.

13_Dub

@Kabam Miike idk what’s taking so long. What’s fair is fair.... Deduct war season points and war rating... You showed us last week that this behavior isn’t taken lightly, so the entire community expects you to follow suit

CoatHang3r

If people want more perspective on how other games have handled similar instances of collusion and match fixing you can google “collusion in esports” or “match fixing in esports”.

One particular article showcases the view points of many different people. https://www.gamopo.com/esports-match-fixing/

Therefore, we decided (as lifelong gamers) to round up some of the biggest esports experts in the world, and ask them one simple question that will hopefully put an end to esports bashing once and for all:

What is your opinion on match fixing in esports?

The goal was to find out whether match fixing in esports is an actual threat that we should worry and act upon. Soon enough, we received amazing feedback from some of the biggest VIPs in the scene.

Uppercut

ContestOfNoobs wrote: »

SO many allainces that was in masters season 1 have fallen off cause they cant pilot/cheat anymore

there are legit alliances that are playing for these rewards...

"Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it."

please dont repeat what happened in season 1...please

I believe most cheaters just jumped ship and cheating continues in their new master alliance. There is only one way to stop this - ban cheaters altogether. Start with 1 month ban for first offense and permanent ban if that’s not sufficient.

Kabam also needs to make sure punishment is appropriate to alliance level/bracket. Maybe for Gold level 1.4M season points is significant but for master level it needs to be at least double. 600 point aw rating reduction and 3M season points (or just move them to lower season bracket and tier altogether), This way they will think twice before doing any point manipulations (e.g 2* wars). But ideally leader or/and officers should be punished as well.

Riegel

They will never say anything about the punishment given, but I do hope they will talk about the underlying issue of collusion and how they hope to fix it. They should have ways to see who all participated in this form of cheating. They could always add back in defender rating as a way to be flagged in the case this happens.

BitterSteel

Riegel wrote: »

You are correct I am unaware.

I’m curious, what would you do if you found out your alliance officers/leader was in such a chat that was organising matchmaking around other top alliances so they can avoid fighting them?

Would you go with it, leave, kick up a fuss?

Also, what do you think about it? Does it need to be punished, or is it a fine tactic?

I’m curious, not calling you out on anything. Just wondering about your opinion.

Blitzkilla420

Uppercut wrote: »

ContestOfNoobs wrote: »

SO many allainces that was in masters season 1 have fallen off cause they cant pilot/cheat anymore

there are legit alliances that are playing for these rewards...

"Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it."

please dont repeat what happened in season 1...please

I believe most cheaters just jumped ship and cheating continues in their new master alliance. There is only one way to stop this - ban cheaters altogether. Start with 1 month ban for first offense and permanent ban if that’s not sufficient.

Kabam also needs to make sure punishment is appropriate to alliance level/bracket. Maybe for Gold level 1.4M season points is significant but for master level it needs to be at least double. 600 point aw rating reduction and 3M season points (or just move them to lower season bracket and tier altogether), This way they will think twice before doing any point manipulations (e.g 2* wars). But ideally leader or/and officers should be punished as well.

That's right. If kabam wants to rectify the rampant cheating that's been going on for so long they can do justice by banning them in the first place.

The best punishment for cheaters would be for their accounts to get tossed aside with the banner hammer cause they're selfish.

Plz kabam I would like to constructively say ban these scum that ruin the integrity of the contest.

Thx,

The rest of the community.

Angry_Asian17

2* wars was in issue in season 1. We were all warned then. Season 2 2* wars should be punishment without doubt.

Riegel

BitterSteel wrote: »

Riegel wrote: »

You are correct I am unaware.

I’m curious, what would you do if you found out your alliance officers/leader was in such a chat that was organising matchmaking around other top alliances so they can avoid fighting them?

Would you go with it, leave, kick up a fuss?

Also, what do you think about it? Does it need to be punished, or is it a fine tactic?

I’m curious, not calling you out on anything. Just wondering about your opinion.

Honestly, I believe the matchmaking room is only there because of a MCOC design flaw, and I have said on many occasion I would like it fixed by removing the information teams need to find out who they are facing.

If I found out my alliance was using this chat to organize anything I would be upset. i would bring up my concerns with them. Our leader is a very cool headed guy. As I have said previously I do not believe we are using this chat to organize anything because we have faced these top teams more times than any of us would have wanted to lol. We faced them though, and we all used 30% champ, 25% health and 20% attack boosts, and we won or lost giving it our best.

On the question of what needs punished I believe that everything that can be punished needs punished. For something to be punishable though in my mind there has to be an in-game action happen that shouldn't have. ie: 2* war, no defenders, etc.

rockykoston

I find cheating in online games deplorable, which is why I rarely play online games.

The only game I play regularly is FIFA and I keep reporting cheaters regularly. As it stands, most of them have been handed a ban, yes a permanent ban. Ocassionally I see them coming along with a new but similar account name, and I report them again.

The ONLY way to stop cheaters is a ban. Temporary ban and then a permanent one.