Degeneration

If your going to insist of using degen every where in this game now then I think its high time you introduce some degen immune champs. Just sayin.

Comments

I_ZERO_I

Gulk isn’t bad.

Buttehrs

Gotta have one first lol

Eb0ny-O-M4w

If it is the same type of degen that I'm thinking of then there will be no immune champ to it.

Buttehrs

That's what I'm saying. Time to introduce degen immune champs lol.

Lambda1

Yeah why not... Since there's a shock immune champ, degeneration is now the only one left.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

Buttehrs wrote: »

That's what I'm saying. Time to introduce degen immune champs lol.

Like I said, it won't happen.
There is a possibility to introduce a champion immune to the degen caused by other champion (like mordo or cable), but there will be no champion immune to the degen caused by a node (like act 5 nodes). Those were designed not to be bypassed by any champion, and encourage players to use another fightning style in order to avoid the incoming degen

Championcritic

whose shock immune?

Eb0ny-O-M4w

Championcritic wrote: »

whose shock immune?

Corvus glaive is kinda shock immune

IronFist34

will-o-wisp wrote: »

Buttehrs wrote: »

and encourage players to use another fightning style in order to avoid the incoming degen

lol ummm, Bane node aside, there is no "fighting style" or skill to be used to avoid degen. Champs that cause degen should have another champ immune to it

Gamer

Also flare node wuld be a joke if ther get deg imuns champ

1haunted_memory

willpower doesn't counter it either, which it should to a point at least lessen it

unknown

This content has been removed.

The1_NuclearOnion

There should be a champ with the ability to reverse debuffs on them as opposed to shaking them off.
Ex:
Weakness becomes Fury
Degen becomes regen

Like what Guilly does only on the champ using it and for their benefit. Based on a timeframe after special or swipe back and block or something to trigger for a certain timeframe.

Colonaut123

It makes sense that champions who are immune to disease (Hulk, symbiotes) are also immune to degeneration.

The1_NuclearOnion

How about Nerf-Immune?

Kyuff

The1_NuclearOnion wrote: »

How about Nerf-Immune?

Like Khamala Khan?

DNA3000

Colonaut123 wrote: »

It makes sense that champions who are immune to disease (Hulk, symbiotes) are also immune to degeneration.

It doesn't make sense that Kabam would invent degeneration so they could make damage effects that aren't covered by immunity, then make immunity to that damage. If they ever make degen immune champs, there is a lot of degeneration in the game that will just get changed to whatever they call the next no-immunity damage.

Dexman1349

Perhaps a middle-ground could be made with a differentiation between active and passive degen debuffs.

For example, node-based degen (like Bane and Flare) would be a passive effect that cannot be removed. However, champ-based degen (like getting hit by Cable's heavy attack, or against Dormammu) is an active debuff that can be made immune to.

This would be very similar to the difference between active armor-up (like Civil Warrior) and passive armor up (IWIM) and how they're effected against champs that can armor break and/or nullify.

ShadPrince

Dexman1349 wrote: »

Perhaps a middle-ground could be made with a differentiation between active and passive degen debuffs.

For example, node-based degen (like Bane and Flare) would be a passive effect that cannot be removed. However, champ-based degen (like getting hit by Cable's heavy attack, or against Dormammu) is an active debuff that can be made immune to.

This would be very similar to the difference between active armor-up (like Civil Warrior) and passive armor up (IWIM) and how they're effected against champs that can armor break and/or nullify.

That would need to be reshuffled a bit tho, especially with Gulk in the game now.
Starburst, Dorm's degen and Limbo all count as passive damage over time (which triggers face me), and to be honest Gulk is pretty good at dealing with degen.
Bane and Flare are considered to be active degen, and if it gets changed this all needs to be cycled around with how Gulk works, and how he responds (because it's passive DoT, not just degen).

DNA3000

Dexman1349 wrote: »

Perhaps a middle-ground could be made with a differentiation between active and passive degen debuffs.

For example, node-based degen (like Bane and Flare) would be a passive effect that cannot be removed. However, champ-based degen (like getting hit by Cable's heavy attack, or against Dormammu) is an active debuff that can be made immune to.

This would be very similar to the difference between active armor-up (like Civil Warrior) and passive armor up (IWIM) and how they're effected against champs that can armor break and/or nullify.

They could do that, but why would they? Degen almost certainly exists to be the damage type that no one has immunity to. It is obvious to me the content designers *want* a damage type that no one has immunities to. You're in effect saying that the content creators of the game shouldn't be allowed to have such a damage type.

I don't think it is accidental that no one is immune to degen. The content creators wanted it that way. So the problem isn't adding degen resistance: that's the easy part. The hard part is convincing the content creators that this thing they added because they wanted it to work that way, you feel they should just change because you like it better that way. I think you'll need a stronger argument for why they should add resistance and immunity to the thing they explicitly wanted to be unresistable and unavoidable by everyone.

Put it another way. Suppose you somehow win and get degen resistance and/or immunity added to the game, and then added to whatever champions you feel appropriate. What stops the content creators from saying "please add a new damage type called disintegration" and then proceed to change starburst to do disintegration damage, which no one has immunity to, in order to restore their original intent?

This isn't really about degen. This is about how you would go about convincing a Kabam developer that every kind of damage must have some subset of champions that easily shrug off that damage, and no damage should affect everyone equally. How do you tell a content creator, no, you aren't allowed to do that. We forbid you from doing that. That seems to be an incredibly high hurdle to me.

Dexman1349

I'm not saying every part should have an immunity. I'm saying there should be a way to counter every champion (and their abilities) in the game. If a champion is able to proc something as a champ-based mechanic, then another character should be able to counter it. In the case of degen, this would mean a form of degen-immunity. A prime example of this would be a modified regen ability for Wolverine.

That being said, it's about making the differentiation between active degen and passive degen. I'm saying passive should always be a part of the game. Things like Bane, Starburst, et.al would remain in the game as unavoidable damage as a node-based mechanic. Champ-based degen (limbo, Cable, Dorm) would all be active debuffs.

It would require things like Limbo and Gulk to be rebuilt to adjust to this, but it creates a win-win scenario. Developers are able to keep their unavoidable damage, but players are also able to counter some aspect of it

DNA3000

Dexman1349 wrote: »

If a champion is able to proc something as a champ-based mechanic, then another character should be able to counter it.

That seems reasonable, but reasonable is not enough to change most people's minds. On top of demonstrating your suggestion is reasonable, you also have to demonstrate the status quo is unreasonable. Kabam has often stated that the "counter" to things like degen is healing. Whether I agree or not is immaterial so long as I'm not a developer. I think you'd have to overwhelmingly demonstrate that position is invalid to make progress here.

Or wait for developer turnover. That creates more game mechanics changes than anything else in my experience.

unknown

This content has been removed.

DNA3000

_ASDF_ wrote: »

CA IW reduces degen by 50% with synergy as well. They are adding some champs that are better against it.

If I recall correctly CAIW's science synergy debuffs opponent attack, it doesn't directly affect degen. Because that synergy reduces opponent attack it will reduce all of the damage coming from that opponent except for attacks that directly strike CAIW, as the effect is suppressed while being struck by attacks.

This means CAIW with the right synergy can affect degen indirectly, but he's not actually reducing degen damage. It does, however, somewhat address the question of affecting enemy champion sources of degen without touching non-champion sources like node debuffs. But technically speaking, doesn't anything that apply a weakness debuff do something similar, if not better (because no suppression on attack)?

unknown

This content has been removed.

Iron_J3

If your going to insist of using degen every where in this game now then I think its high time you introduce some degen immune champs. Just sayin.

Well said. Don’t care I’m late to this Kabam. Kabam - money hungry, degenerates that have ZERO CLUE. COME AT ME KABAM.