Kabam rewarding cheating alliances

Hi Kabam,

Remember last week you punished 3 alliances for cheating?

Reduced 500 points and 1.5mil war score??

Guess what? After your punishment they are still in plat 1 AND facing MUCH EASIER opponents thanks to your punishment.

One of them is back to the top of plat1 with high chance of going back to master as they are fighting easier wars.

How is this even called a punishment? they may even be able to reduce their pots n boost usage to get back to master as they are facing easier opponent.

Please enlighten us

@Kabam Vydious @Kabam Miike

Comments

BigTime

You could call it encouragement to cheat in the first place.

I know what Kabam thought, "if we knock them down that will teach them their lesson and they'll lose out on rewards" Except the geniuses that come up with this stuff require 6 months to a year to respond to a failed policy.

Without true enforcement such as:
- a 2-3 strikes and you're out policy
- war restrictions where the player can't participate in wars
- flagging who has been participating
etc...

Nothing is going to change and the current policy is going to give them continued rewards and hurt lesser alliances.

Riegel

Unfortunately the only policy I have seen is to protect the cheaters.

TheLegend27

I'm pretty certain those cheating alliances are also heavy spenders...so yea, doubt anything permanent or severe will happen. I could be wrong about that connection, but the punishment is still weak sauce

DTMelodicMetal

http://www.mhhe.com/mayfieldpub/sarafino/presentations/ch05/tsld006.htm

Read over the above website's bullet points in the context of AW colluding/piloting/cheating/etc. Instead of "behaviors are more resistant to extinction when", think "AW cheating is more resistant to extinction when".

In other words - AW cheating is more resistant to extinction when:

- reinforcers maintaining AW cheating are not clearly defined
- not all reinforcers for AW cheating are withheld
- honest AW playing is not reinforced
- AW cheating is reinforced for a long time
- the value of reinforcers for AW cheating is high

BigTime

DTMelodicMetal wrote: »

- the value of reinforcers for AW cheating is high

This is the number #1 issue here. REAL money is involved here. People are spending thousands on a game with rare "excellent" rewards. When that sort of cash is being applied to accounts? It is almost stupid to not account share.

Monkey_Lord

I can’t believe you all actually expected anything different.. the same people that were cheating 2 years ago are the ones that do it today.. hidden behind the “privacy policy”, is how the same people keep cheating... the game caters to them cuz they spend BIG $$... sure- we get thrown a bone every now and then with bans on the Little folks that are dumb enough to use mods to cheat.. but nothing really happens to the top tier guys.. the game would die if the real cheaters were ever banned..

DTMelodicMetal

Monkey_Lord wrote: »

the game would die if the real cheaters were ever banned..

That's speculation. Another forum member gave multiple detailed examples of why this would not be the case. Accepting terms of service violations of other players because "it's always been that way" is a terrible reason to not demand punitive action be taken against cheaters.

GroundedWisdom

Monkey_Lord wrote: »

I can’t believe you all actually expected anything different.. the same people that were cheating 2 years ago are the ones that do it today.. hidden behind the “privacy policy”, is how the same people keep cheating... the game caters to them cuz they spend BIG $$... sure- we get thrown a bone every now and then with bans on the Little folks that are dumb enough to use mods to cheat.. but nothing really happens to the top tier guys.. the game would die if the real cheaters were ever banned..

There's a flaw in that argument because people who spend a significant amount really have no need to cheat. Not that I support the idea that they allow people to cheat if they spend. That's just not a thing.

Monkey_Lord

DTMelodicMetal wrote: »

Monkey_Lord wrote: »

the game would die if the real cheaters were ever banned..

That's speculation. Another forum member gave multiple detailed examples of why this would not be the case. Accepting terms of service violations of other players because "it's always been that way" is a terrible reason to not demand punitive action be taken against cheaters.

It’s not speculation when the same people do it over & over & over again with little to no punishment... And I’m not saying that no punitive action be taken.. I’m saying not enough is taken.. and it is for a reason.. which is why they hide behind the so called privacy policy.. if this weren’t the case, then ally leaders would be advised of who the cheaters are and the cheaters would be blackballed from any alliance.. however, that isn’t the case and they can just bounce around from ally to ally. There is no real punishment unless you mod you account and are a small fish

DTMelodicMetal

Monkey_Lord wrote: »

It’s not speculation when the same people do it over & over & over again with little to no punishment... And I’m not saying that no punitive action be taken.. I’m saying not enough is taken.. and it is for a reason.. which is why they hide behind the so called privacy policy.. if this weren’t the case, then ally leaders would be advised of who the cheaters are and the cheaters would be blackballed from any alliance.. however, that isn’t the case and they can just bounce around from ally to ally. There is no real punishment unless you mod you account and are a small fish

@Monkey_Lord By speculation I was referring to your comment about MCOC going under if the game's biggest cheaters were banned for good. The other parts of your comment were not speculation.

InfinityWarrior123

Kabam, you guys should relook on the punishment given. Including to those that has been punished before.

And i would suggest for kabam to take a few days to analyzed all wars including the last war before giving out rewards.

Monkey_Lord

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Monkey_Lord wrote: »

I can’t believe you all actually expected anything different.. the same people that were cheating 2 years ago are the ones that do it today.. hidden behind the “privacy policy”, is how the same people keep cheating... the game caters to them cuz they spend BIG $$... sure- we get thrown a bone every now and then with bans on the Little folks that are dumb enough to use mods to cheat.. but nothing really happens to the top tier guys.. the game would die if the real cheaters were ever banned..

There's a flaw in that argument because people who spend a significant amount really have no need to cheat. Not that I support the idea that they allow people to cheat if they spend. That's just not a thing.

This “it’s not a thing” is actually pretty laughable...

1). Lance Armstrong
2). Mark McGuire
3). Tom Brady

The need to win and be #1 I would say outweigh your argument

EvilEmpire

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Monkey_Lord wrote: »

I can’t believe you all actually expected anything different.. the same people that were cheating 2 years ago are the ones that do it today.. hidden behind the “privacy policy”, is how the same people keep cheating... the game caters to them cuz they spend BIG $$... sure- we get thrown a bone every now and then with bans on the Little folks that are dumb enough to use mods to cheat.. but nothing really happens to the top tier guys.. the game would die if the real cheaters were ever banned..

There's a flaw in that argument because people who spend a significant amount really have no need to cheat. Not that I support the idea that they allow people to cheat if they spend. That's just not a thing.

Simply spending a lot as a group doesn’t get you the top war rewards, why would you think they have no reason to cheat. In fact they have the most incentive because you need those accounts to even get into that range. It’s hard to quantify the value of p1 or master bracket rewards but we’re definitely talking thousands of dollars based on the game economy.

GroundedWisdom

First of all, they're not allowing people to get away with cheating if they spend money. That misconception has been around as long as whales have.
Secondly, there is no logical standing that cheaters, who lack morals in general, are going to cheat AND spend money. Given the option, they would just cheat. Large spenders aren't at a loss for Rosters, that's for sure.
As much as I like seeing people becoming aware of unfair behaviour, I think the suspicion is abandoning reason.

unknown

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DNA3000

Monkey_Lord wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Monkey_Lord wrote: »

I can’t believe you all actually expected anything different.. the same people that were cheating 2 years ago are the ones that do it today.. hidden behind the “privacy policy”, is how the same people keep cheating... the game caters to them cuz they spend BIG $$... sure- we get thrown a bone every now and then with bans on the Little folks that are dumb enough to use mods to cheat.. but nothing really happens to the top tier guys.. the game would die if the real cheaters were ever banned..

There's a flaw in that argument because people who spend a significant amount really have no need to cheat. Not that I support the idea that they allow people to cheat if they spend. That's just not a thing.

This “it’s not a thing” is actually pretty laughable...

1). Lance Armstrong
2). Mark McGuire
3). Tom Brady

The need to win and be #1 I would say outweigh your argument

It is too bad that ever since they banned Lance Armstrong for life from the sport of competitive cycling, the sport died. I wonder what they are going to do with all those bicycles.

EvilEmpire

To a certain extent I kind of think it’s silly to even bother going beyond p2 because it’s so murky once your into the top 50 and you really have no choice but to try and find every edge possible. My group is in the 120s right now and we basically consider p2 to be the top of the mountain as we just aren’t gonna do any of the things needed to get beyond that money spending or otherwise.

Run477

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Monkey_Lord wrote: »

I can’t believe you all actually expected anything different.. the same people that were cheating 2 years ago are the ones that do it today.. hidden behind the “privacy policy”, is how the same people keep cheating... the game caters to them cuz they spend BIG $$... sure- we get thrown a bone every now and then with bans on the Little folks that are dumb enough to use mods to cheat.. but nothing really happens to the top tier guys.. the game would die if the real cheaters were ever banned..

There's a flaw in that argument because people who spend a significant amount really have no need to cheat. Not that I support the idea that they allow people to cheat if they spend. That's just not a thing.

Comments like these are why your other forum post got taken over.

To win in alliance wars in top tiers, you can hardly give up any deaths. Last season, a lot of the top allies, each of which had big spenders, were piloting like crazy. Big spenders can be great for prestige and defensive champs, but some of them can’t fight. So they let others who are skilled fight for them. That’s the underlying frustration to piloting. The most flagrant alliances would get a couple of great fighters and they would just do all of alliance war.

unknown

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GroundedWisdom

I'm not even going to address the first part of that comment.

As for the second, Piloting at the top is not the result of people who can't fight, but have spent thousands of dollars on their Roster. That makes little sense whatsoever. People don't just purchase their way to the top without learning how to play themselves. You can make purchases, yes. The majority of large spenders are at the top, have been on the top, and have the skill. The cheating you're referring to is exactly how you described, but not the result of people spending but having no skill. It's people so obsessed with winning that they can't accept losing. So, they allow Pilots to fight for them. There's also the alleged excusable cases where people aren't available. The suggestion was that Kabam allows, rather overlooks, cheating because the so-called bread-winners pay for the game. Conspiracy.

InfinityWarrior123

Ignore @GroundedWisdom
He is a troll. Just dont respond to him so he can stop trolling.

Likely he is in one of cheaters alliance

DTMelodicMetal

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

People don't just purchase their way to the top without learning how to play themselves. You can make purchases, yes. The majority of large spenders are at the top, have been on the top, and have the skill. The cheating you're referring to is exactly how you described, but not the result of people spending but having no skill.

@GroundedWisdom Can you provide the sources from which you got this information? Many tier 1/master tier AW players disagree with this based on their experience from playing "at the top". It would help us understand why you think your above comment is true if you were to tell us where you got your information from.

Jaffacaked

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

I'm not even going to address the first part of that comment.

As for the second, Piloting at the top is not the result of people who can't fight, but have spent thousands of dollars on their Roster. That makes little sense whatsoever. People don't just purchase their way to the top without learning how to play themselves. You can make purchases, yes. The majority of large spenders are at the top, have been on the top, and have the skill. The cheating you're referring to is exactly how you described, but not the result of people spending but having no skill. It's people so obsessed with winning that they can't accept losing. So, they allow Pilots to fight for them. There's also the alleged excusable cases where people aren't available. The suggestion was that Kabam allows, rather overlooks, cheating because the so-called bread-winners pay for the game. Conspiracy.

Seriously stop talking about stuff you clearly have no idea about.

To be at the top of aw it takes skill not to die. Just cos someone spends big an had a great roster does not mean they are skilled. We've had some amazing rosters join our ally in plat1, however most of those people ends up dying and a good gew wiping out their whole attack team on 1 node. Now that's an unskilled player.

Just reiterate piloting is a result of people who can't fight or are not skilled enough to be at the top.

GroundedWisdom

On the contrary, one of the biggest excuses for cheating is people think they have to in order to compete with spenders.

InfinityWarrior123

So grounded wisdom is one of the spender that has no skill and need to be piloted. Hence he tried his best to divert attention in forum threads that asking for cheaters to be heavily punished.

DTMelodicMetal

InfinityWarrior123 wrote: »

So grounded wisdom is one of the spender that has no skill and need to be piloted. Hence he tried his best to divert attention in forum threads that asking for cheaters to be heavily punished.

Accusing members can be perceived as insulting them, that gets threads closed. Nothing good comes from posting comments with perceived disrespect.

@GroundedWisdom Hope you're not ignoring my last comment.

Avicari

Still no punishment or comment for the 2 star wars.

First season these alliances were piloting, now this season they are making exploitative deals. Next season they will find a new loophole to exploit because the punishments are either non existent or not severe.

This game unfortunately seems to reward cheaters, simple as that.

Jaffacaked

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

On the contrary, one of the biggest excuses for cheating is people think they have to in order to compete with spenders.

Maybe in bronze 1 where you are. I can tell you for a fact that's not the case in plat1 or master.

Spending can't make up for skill in AW at the top when a single death can often be the difference in win\lose.

Fingfangfoomfanes

My penny’s worth: being in top level alliances <= whales >= piloting. I know some accounts were bought from retiring players but are
Not let go because of prestige. Other cases: some players just want to have a break without quitting an alliance altogether. So yeah, cheating is possible but not applied to all.

DTMelodicMetal

Avicari wrote: »

Still no punishment or comment for the 2 star wars.

First season these alliances were piloting, now this season they are making exploitative deals. Next season they will find a new loophole to exploit because the punishments are either non existent or not severe.

This game unfortunately seems to reward cheaters, simple as that.

2* AWs happened frequently in AW Season 1 as well. It's frustrating that when it comes to penalties for cheating, MCOC disproves Newton's 3rd law of physics.